My Christian Girlfriend

[bob]

I love this woman with all that is within me. We have been seeing each other for over a year. I knew from the beginning that she was a Christian. She knew from the beginning that I was an atheist. I go to church with her every Sunday, for one reason only...to be with her. She is fully aware of that.

We don't discuss religion much at all. The few times that we have, the discussion ended abruptly with emotional responses from both of us.

She is, of course, hopeful that I will return to Jesus.

Sometimes, I get a tad emotional (quiet and sullen) while in church, mainly because I feel so out of place and alone there, mainly because all the people there are enjoying this fellowship with each other, and I just don't belong. I am an outsider.

Sometimes my lady misinterprets my discomfort for a "moving of the holy spirit".

Yesterday, as we were talking after church, she asked me, with tears in her eyes, if I thought there was even a small chance that I would believe again. I felt so horrible. She is such a wonderful lady. Not a fundy. She will laugh and say "shit" at something funny. She will join me for a bourbon and coke in the evenings, she will take pleasure in fornicating with me. But she is, at times, torn inside because it makes her very sad to think that I will spend eternity in hell.

Of course, it tears me up knowing she loves and worships this god who will send me to hell just because I can't find it with in me to believe in him again.

I just wish there was some way to show her that it is not my lack of belief that causes this occasional friction in our relationship. It is her religion, her belief, that is the source of her tears and my anxiety.

When she asked me if I could ever believe again, I made sure that she knew that I don't claim that there is no god. I just don't believe. I told her that I don't trust my emotions when searching for the truth, so I just can't make a decision to believe based on my emotions. I need evidence.

Guys, for her sake, I almost wish I could take a pill that would make me believe. I don't want to be a christian. I find nothing desirable in their attitudes or actions. As a species, they have nothing I want or desire. But, I just love this woman so much, and want so bad to take away any emotional distress she feels because of this issue. If you could have looked into her eyes as she tearfully asked if there was a chance that "the spirit" was moving in me. She was so hopeful, and it made me so sad. If I could believe, I would, just for her.

[Light_of_Reason]

I know what you mean. I deal with the same thing with my wife.

 

It is tough to say that you know you cannot believe again when you know it to be the truth and the person you love with all your heart is dearly hoping for that conversion.

 

I have no advice, so I will end just letting you know that I empathize with you.

[white_raven23]

There's really nothing I can say Bob. Nothing that could possibly be of any help whatsoever.

 

Your feelings are very clear, and my heart goes out to you. I know that to compromise oneself too far is a sure road to misery and unhappiness, and not just for you either. This woman you cherish sincerely "believes".

 

If there's a way to question her faith without questioning her faith....I'd try to do it if I were you. By that I mean, find out why she believes so strongly. And not the "christian-ese" version of why she believes (the parroting they are taught to cough up when asked) .....why she really believes.

 

That's really all I can offer up. Sorry.

 

This has been rough on you, and it shows. I wish there were a way to make everything instantly easier.

 

(((((Hugs))))))

[Rosa Mystica]

You seem to love this woman very much, Bob. And she seems to love you.

 

I don't know what to advise other than this: don't try to deconvert her. That strategy may backfire. Rather, encourage her to be honest with herself and you. You say she's torn up about you being condmned, etc. Encourage her to talk this out. Allow her to express all the sadness and anger that may be accompanying this belief. See what you come up with.

 

Here's why I recommend the above: I was an a Christian/ex-Christian relationship (I was the Catholic, he was- and still is- the atheist). I had issues with his damnation, too, but fortunately, Catholicism didn't state that my bf would *definitely* be damned for not believing (doesn't sound like your lady has this good fortune). Know what happened? I looked into myself, and tried to analyze this fear. After a while, the fear turned to outrage at a sadistic deity who may very well condemn the man I loved for not understanding the validity of theism. My anger towards this, and other things in my life, resulted in questioning and eventual loss of faith. I did it on my own, my bf did *not* try to take it from me. If he had, I would have probably held onto the system longer, despite my growing dislike of it. However, b/c I was permitted to be honest, and was not pushed into anything, I changed.

 

Try to let her figure this out. Be willing to help her. Hopefully, everything will work out.

 

Rosa

[HoustonHorn]

I went through much the same thing. Christian girlfriend, went to church with her on Sundays because that's the only way we could spend time together on the weekend (I usually work on Saturdays). Well, it turned out I got tired of sitting alone in the back of the church during the Lord's Supper and mistook that feeling of outcast for "the Lord working on my heart" and walked to the front one day to get baptized. 3+ years later I've gone through a couple of years of being pretty hard core Christian, started having doubts, and realized what it really was that lead me to the front of the church that day. So I'm back to my beliefs from before my "conversion" - if there is a God he pretty much just threw some organic material on the Earth and let it do its thing.

 

In a couple of months we'll have been married for 3 years

[Guest Emerson]

Hmm this is a tough one. You sound like you really love her, but is this relationship what's the best for you both? Can you really get past this issue? If you can't and be honest, then its maybe better to see other people. I know that's not what everyone's said, but this seems such a huge hole between you two and if its causing you heartache then that's a terrible way to live life.

 

Maybe you should pick a time to really discuss both of your beliefs. And then if you can't still get passed it, well its better to move on.

[bob]

Thanks for your words everyone.

I would really like to discuss this with her. But I am so terrified of making the issue bigger than it actually is. Because we don't talk much about it, I just kind of assume that it is not weighing on her mind all the time....or, it could be bothering her but she is worried she will upset me with her questions and thoughts. I have told her that she can tell me and ask me anything she wants to. I am always open to discuss her faith and my lack of it. I try not to bring it up for the simple fact that she seldom brings it up. Because so many Christians are without a rational defense when it comes to their faith, and they tend to get emotional when they try to defend it, I would just as soon not put her in that position.

wr23, I like your idea of just seeing if I can get her to talk to me about why she believes.

Rosa, agreeing with you, I have no desire to try to deconvert her. I know that will not end well.

Emerson, moving on is not an option. I feel like a 15 year old high school boy. The thought of her not being in my life is...unthinkable...

LoR, could you expound some on how you and your wife get along?, or don't get along because of the religious differences?

My lady talks of me moving in with her when my house sells. I have been afraid to talk of marriage just because of the religious issue. I know that she knows what the bible says, what her church teaches, concerning being "unequally yoked"

We shall see.

[Guest Emerson]

well its better confronting the issue now, rather than ignoring it and letting it build into your marriage if you do get married, and then ending up divorced over it. see the thing is that i don't believe in the one or soul mates, I think that its about finding someone with similar qualities and try to make it work. well try to bring it up nicely and not as if you're ready for a fierce debate, let her explain her beliefs, but yeah i see this as not a good thing and it sounds like its going to end terribly and it'll be a huge issue. sorry bob, don't mean to sound doomed but you really gotta try to work it out now if you want a great future with your girl.

[LloydDobler]

Maybe this will make you feel better:

 

 

12To the rest I say this (I, not the Lord): If any brother has a wife who is not a believer and she is willing to live with him, he must not divorce her. 13And if a woman has a husband who is not a believer and he is willing to live with her, she must not divorce him. 14For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy.

 

15But if the unbeliever leaves, let him do so. A believing man or woman is not bound in such circumstances; God has called us to live in peace. 16How do you know, wife, whether you will save your husband? Or, how do you know, husband, whether you will save your wife?

 

This passage flies in the face of the unequally yoked with unbelievers crap. Spiritually speaking, you're bonking her therefore you're her husband. Therefore you are sanctified through her faith and your disbelief becomes a non-issue. Just another discussion topic rather than a life shattering difference.

 

That or you could just point out to her that since she's so willingly sinning on a regular basis, she's obviously not filled with the spirit and will be burning in hell with you (1 John ch 3).

 

I dunno, even as a christian I learned to not give a shit about this issue, it's a triviality for the pharisees to get in a fuss about. I broke up with two girls in my past because neither was a christian and of all my decisions made from christianity those are the only ones I genuinely regret.

 

FWIW.

[Ro-bear]

With all due respect, byrdlady22, it appears to me you are attempting to witness on forums where such attempts are deemed inapropriate. You should try a debate forum instead of intruding here.

 

Love, Rob

[white_raven23]

Byrdlady, you aren't paying attention. Try not shouting. Love is not the problem here (at least not in the way you seem to think). Bob loves this woman, and she loves him too. But this woman's peer group (yes...they happen to be christian) doesn't encourage the relationship (they don't respect Bob's worldview). It is creating pressure on Bob's ladyfriend.....and he sees it. He doesn't want her hurt, and he doesn't himself want to BE hurt. Whether you like it or not, christian peer pressure is a very strong thing. People do end relationships because their partner doesn't conform to their view of "the truth". And interestingly enough....FYI.......based on the history of this forum and the people in it.......the intimate relationship is RARELY severed by the non-christian. Usually it is the religious person who ends it.

[Saviourmachine]

Hi Bob, I'm with by xian gf for a year and a half by now. Long enough to be at times a bit discomforted... Not, the burning flames from falling in love, but I still love her very much. However, we do not discuss religion either. And something is going on, but I don't know exactly what it is. Our relation is not running smoothly anymore. In some way it is related to our failure to communicate properly, or so I feel. We can talk with each other about everything, but the real personal stuff, remains it not lightly hidden? I proposed to write each other - additionally - emails. That's more a medium for me than for her. But I think I can express in a way things that would remain unsaid elseway. Although I need advice as much as you do, that is maybe an idea.

 

It's heartwarming to read about your love for her. Good luck to you both!

[pandora]

Saviormachine... my boyfriend and I did the whole e-mailing our issues thing when we were dating... it was cool for a while, but we ended up having e-mail fights. It became difficult to censor things that we typed... we said hurtful things to eachother that we never really meant or would have said in real life. Also, issues came up and were blown way out of proportion compared to how we would have dealt with them in real life. At least for us, ground rules for e-mailing helped, like don't send it until a day has passed since you read the last response (unless there is a reason you have to e-mail sooner), read the draft before you send it, etc... No, I promise... we're not nuts... they were more suggestions to eachother, not rules we typed out and signed or anything.

[AtheistMommy]

Bob,

I too feel for you. I have never been in this kind of relationship. I met my husband when I realized I was an Atheist. He had a few years under his belt. But I do know about relationships.

You have to compromise. You might love her this way now but your relationship won't get very far without communication and compromising. Remember marriage is a partnership of life. You must work together to make it last. I doubt anyone knows that better than I do being that I'm married to a strong willed militant Atheist. We don't always see eye to eye.

 

If she can come to an understanding of why you are Atheist and respect that, than I think you have a very good chance of making it. However, if she holds on to false hope than its going to make things much harder.

 

You sound like you respect her beliefs. That's wonderful. But does she return that respect? Just take the belief issue out, and use basic issues, you'll see what I'm saying.

[Guest Emerson]

With all due respect, byrdlady22, it appears to me you are attempting to witness on forums where such attempts are deemed inapropriate. You should try a debate forum instead of intruding here.

 

Love, Rob

 

My thoughts exactly, I sniff a rat.

[bob]

So many great thoughts from you guys. Thanks to you all. I feel much better. Lloyd, thanks for the scripture reading. I had long ago forgotten about that passage. I will show it to her and get her thoughts. I would really like to let her read all of your thoughts. Kind of scary though. Don't know how she would react. She knows I have friends at an atheist forum but I have never taken her here. I just don't know.

[Saviourmachine]

No, I promise... we're not nuts... they were more suggestions to eachother, not rules we typed out and signed or anything.

Ah, that would be cool.

[Saviourmachine]

I am currently reading Nussbaum, about love. She writes about the collaboration of intellect and love. Love does not have a mere object as its subject, but a living being. It becomes very personal, it values the uniqueness of that person. It is a kind of love that is not transferable. Even if the beloved does have a certain character, but in the course of time, accents appear and disappear. The beloved is the source of knowledge, knowledge about someone self, insight. I learn to know her, and through her I know myself. I learn how to respond to her behaviour. I learn, when she likes me to talk or when she likes me to be silent. I learn what the best way is to learn her things. I learn how far I can go with her. I learn in what way she likes to please me. I learn a lot of great and small things. But mainly the latter. And still, I'm hesistantly in answering the question: "do you know really what love is?".

 

In case the context isn't clear. I totally agree with AtheistMommy, that love is about "communication and compromising".

[Light_of_Reason]

LoR, could you expound some on how you and your wife get along?, or don't get along because of the religious differences?

 

Well, sometimes we get along splendidly, and sometimes we don't. Neither of us is afraid to discuss religious beliefs, but we don't bring them up often.

 

Sometimes I will question her about why she believes, and usually she tells me she just does because that's what she was taught to believe. Other times she says she feels she would feel empty without that belief there.

 

And then there are times when I question her literalist interpretations and present evidences against her beliefs. Those never seem to end well, though all I am usually doing is attempting to sate my curiosity as regards how she can believe what she does despite the evidences. I have learned from those exercises that her family has become adept at and has instilled in all their children an incredible ability to partition their knowledge. For instance, my wife has gone into nursing and taken several biology classes that given the evidences would make any other person a firm believer in evolutionary theory. Yet she is able to absorb that knowledge for her courses and profession, then compartmentalize it so that it does not interfere with her belief system. It is quite remarkable.

 

The only thing that worries me is raising children together. Naturally, she wants to raise them the way she was raised, while I want to raise them in a more open-minded fashion. So far, we have worked out that we will teach them Biblical stories along with fables and stories from other religions while they are young and take them to church. Then, when they are old enough to begin questioning, we are both allowed to give them our various viewpoints, letting them decide for themselves what works best for them.

[Light_of_Reason]

I would just like to add that I too agree with AtheistMommy. Communication, compromise, and mutual respect are the keys to any relationship.

 

If you can accomplish attaining these, there should be no issue too great for your relationship to withstand.

[AtheistMommy]

Wow, thanks guys.

[LosingMyReligion]

Can these kinds of relationships actually work?

 

I imagine it would be so hard not having that common ground. I know that it irritates me to listen to people discuss the bible as if it is the end all be all...And to know that my mate might be praying for my soul just because I don't believe the way that he does.

 

Grant it, some christians are more liberal...but the bottom line is still the same.

 

I wonder how can someone cope with that for the duration of a marraige? True, the lines of communication must be open...But I imagine it would be so hard.

 

I would date a Christian guy...but I keep wondering would the pros outweigh the cons...The religion itself has been so damaging to my life that I wonder would I want anything to do with a person in it? I would like to be with a moral person, not a religious one...

 

I've never been in the situation...but this is a very enlightening thread.

[AtheistMommy]

Can these kinds of relationships actually work?

 

I imagine it would be so hard not having that common ground. I know that it irritates me to listen to people discuss the bible as if it is the end all be all...And to know that my mate might be praying for my soul just because I don't believe the way that he does.

 

Grant it, some christians are more liberal...but the bottom line is still the same.

 

I wonder how can someone cope with that for the duration of a marraige? True, the lines of communication must be open...But I imagine it would be so hard.

 

I would date a Christian guy...but I keep wondering would the pros outweigh the cons...The religion itself has been so damaging to my life that I wonder would I want anything to do with a person in it? I would like to be with a moral person, not a religious one...

 

I've never been in the situation...but this is a very enlightening thread.

 

That's just it. Things like this happen in relationships of all kinds at some time or another. At least in most relationships. If you took religious belief and replaced it with something else you'd end up in the same place. But it's not the problem or issue you should worry about, it's the how to cope you should be conserned with.

 

Yes, marriages like this should be able to work. However, it's dependant on quite a few things.

[DucorpsToo]

I think that AtheistMommy hit the nail on right on the head. It does appear to depend greatly on the individuals involved and how well both parties are willing to accomodate the other's set of beliefs...even though they might be in complete contradiction to their own.

 

I do, as LoR has pointed out, see how things might get sticky when the kids eventually come. I've heard my share of troubled callers on the Dr. Laura show who are in that exact same dilemma...( I definitely do not share any of Dr. Laura's religious viewpoints however). Fortunately my husband of 17 years doesn't push his religion down my throat...and we seldom engage in any deep religious topics. However, like LoR, I will occasionally point out certain absurd tenets in his belief system just to get him thinking exactly why he accepts it. For us, our "bones of contention" do not revolve around religion at all. Luckily, since were both crazy about our parrots and definitely have no desire for children, a huge element of complexity within our lives has been avoided. This is an interesting topic..

 

Good luck to you... ((((bob))))

[RHEMtron]

im on the same boat as you buddy. i go to church every sunday with my girlfriend for the same reason. amanda and i actually had a discussion about it in the middle of this thread: http://www.ex-christian.net/index.php?showtopic=8911 check it out to see if it helps... probably wont, but worth a look.

 

but just like AetheistMommy said... depends on the individuals... communication and compromise is the key. that's how we got through the issue... or at least getting through it. love is unconditional.