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Guest illogical_logic

Hello, everyone!

 

I am new to this whole atheist thing. I am actually a former fundy. I am so glad i am I free from the absurdities of religion. It is strange to me how naieve people are to believe the things they believe about any religion. Blind faith without logically thinking things through or checking out the facts. believing things because other people like pastors or their peers tell them it was true. I am now a marked woman by my christian friends for becoming atheist. I am becoming the subject of many prayers to this god they think exsists.

 

I have always been a freethinker and it has taken me many years to think through and study alll the absurdities that have been shoved down my throat by the fundy pastors and others.

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Greeting IL,

 

It may in fact take you a long time to really rid yourself of their distorted views. I'm still amazed where those little critters I inherited from them are still hiding in my thoughts somewhere. I'm sure you find plenty of friends here will feel absolutely no reason to pray for you because you are an atheist. :grin:

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Welcome I-Lo! (like J-Lo you know. :) )

 

You'll find plenty of likeminded people here. We're starting to have so many apostate members so I suspect we soon will collapse into a black hole and then devour the whole universe... but that's just my opinion. :HaHa:

 

I can tell you have (on your own) been able to already discover some of the fallacies of religion.

 

One thing I noticed too from start, was that it's easier to understand things as an apostate. When I was Christian, I was afraid of witness, not becuase of talking to other people, I loved talking to people, but I was afraid of not having the answer. I had to study books to learn and memorize the answers, or the tricks how to avoid certain questions. (Tricks, yes, I said tricks, like "if this subject comes up, start talking about Jesus' love instead." Diversion basically)

 

But now, as an apostate, I figure out things on my own, don't have to read to understand the fallacies of religion, and don't have to read or memorize how things works in the world, because you only need to grab a science magazine and point. The answers now are everywhere and the head is enough to figure it out. No one have to explain or teach me how to argue with a Christian or anyone.

 

I don't know if it made sense, but I had to write it. Good luck I-Lo!

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Hello, everyone!

 

I am new to this whole atheist thing. I am actually a former fundy. I am so glad i am I free from the absurdities of religion. It is strange to me how naieve people are to believe the things they believe about any religion. Blind faith without logically thinking things through or checking out the facts. believing things because other people like pastors or their peers tell them it was true. I am now a marked woman by my christian friends for becoming atheist. I am becoming the subject of many prayers to this god they think exsists.

 

I have always been a freethinker and it has taken me many years to think through and study alll the absurdities that have been shoved down my throat by the fundy pastors and others.

 

i would urge you to check out this website.

 

http://www.doesgodexist.org/

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i would urge you to check out this website...
I did, and this piece of tripe jumped out at me:
For example, it can be established quite firmly as a historical fact that a man named Jesus was crucified in the early first century.
It's possible that someone of that name did get killed by the Romans, but so what? It was a very common name. Perhaps several Jesii got executed by the Romans... One for petty theft, one for murder, and one for a moving violation involving a chariot, a diplomat's wife, and a large puddle of mud.

 

More significantly, there is no non-biblical evidence available for the various "miracles" that allegedly occurred. You really think that someone would have written about earthquakes, solar eclipses, and the dead rising from their graves. (Unless, of course, it never happened.)

 

There are no writings left by actual eye witnesses. Merely evidence of an emerging cult called "Christians", forty or more years after the fact. And what's the significance of forty years? Long enough for all the people who might've known the truth to die off, so that you can spin a wild tale without fear of contradiction. Just like the wanderings of Moses... No eye witnesses left over from the captivity-in-Egypt period. Hmm.

 

(And don't mention Josephus, please. That one's been debunked so many times around here that it guarantees a mass rolling-of-eyes.)

 

Oh, and welcome to the board, illogical_logic!

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I'm a long way from being a scientist, but this is a stupid argument. Let's see. Let's see, if inanimate objects always existed, why couldn't the Christian god, the most notably complex being ever proffered in the world of fiction have always existed? Occam's razor lops the later right off at the creative nuts. You can see, touch, smell, prove matter. Show me biblegod.

 

One question which inevitably comes up in a discussion of this nature is what is the origin of God? If God created matter/energy, and designed the systems that have propelled matter into its present arrangement, who or what accomplished that for God? Why is it any more reasonable to believe that God has always “been” than it is to say that matter has always “been”? As Carl Sagan has said, “If we say that God has always been, why not save a step and conclude that the universe has always been?” (Cosmos, p. 257).

 

Christians will stoop to lying just to grab converts. Shameful.

 

But since Christians are intent on mischaracterizing the 2nd law of thermodynamics, it's not surprising that they would lie about the first law; energy can neither be created nor destroyed.

 

From a purely scientific standpoint, it is easy to demonstrate that matter cannot be eternal in nature. The universe is expanding from what appears to be a beginning point in space/time, which appears to be a one time event. Hydrogen is the basic fuel of the cosmos, powering all stars and other energy sources in space. If the fuel of the universe has been used eternally, that fuel will eventually be depleted, but the evidence is that the cosmological gas gauge, while moving toward “empty,” is yet a long way from being there

 

That website is tripe. It's sole intent is to mislead the uninformed and bolster the faith of those who have already made up their minds. Didn't you have to get an undergrad degree to become a nurse? Didn't they require a few science classes in your core?

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i would urge you to check out this website...
I did, and this piece of tripe jumped out at me:
For example, it can be established quite firmly as a historical fact that a man named Jesus was crucified in the early first century.
It's possible that someone of that name did get killed by the Romans, but so what? It was a very common name. Perhaps several Jesii got executed by the Romans... One for petty theft, one for murder, and one for a moving violation involving a chariot, a diplomat's wife, and a large puddle of mud.

Or DUI: Donkey-riding Under Influence.

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This one is a real gem:

 

I guess none of us like to look back in our lives to a time when we made poor judgments and foolish mistakes when we took rather really idiotic positions--and admit this

 

It was pretty idiotic of me to hold on to the xtian paradigm into my early 20s. I should have known better but the brainwashing from youth was thorough. .

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First of all, WELCOME! It is so wonderful to see people “growing out” of religion by using their minds! BEAUTIFUL! I can’t wait to see the things you have to contribute to the forum.

 

Next, I’m going to address this article that was put up for you to check out. I decided I should check it out to, as I am always genuinely interested in the arguments on the other side. This article was at least a little more science based than some I have seen, but it contradicts itself and shows a limited knowledge of the science in its explaining. It also makes some assumptions about Atheists that aren’t exactly true. Here is what I have to say about it.

 

(Moderators: If this should be in a different location, please move it! I thought it would be okay to discuss since it came up in the Lion’s Den.)

 

The first assumption made that I’ll address just for correctness is that Atheists think there was no beginning. This is not entirely true. It is possible not to believe in God and still believe there to be a beginning. The article makes a point to say that everything could not have just already existed because the galaxies are moving farther and farther apart, indicating a beginning. However, there are theories that the universe starts from a compact point, explodes outward and eventually, like a rubber band, draws back into itself to start again. In this case, maybe there was a beginning point, or maybe this has been happening forever. We don’t know and likely never will. Anyhow, the article’s statement is true that the universe expanded from a point (at least most likely) and that this might indicate a beginning. However, there can certainly be a beginning without God, and moreover, the Christian God.

 

The article goes on to state that because there was a beginning, the matter had to come from somewhere and everything had to be put into motion thus indicating God as the cause. According to the law of conservation and energy that they refer to, matter cannot be created or destroyed. This would mean the matter that was there was always there. It would not necessarily take a God to make things start happening, just a chemical reaction. The article’s statement, “If matter had a beginning and yet was uncaused, one must logically maintain that something would have had to come into existence out of nothing” is simply untrue in the light of what I just wrote.

 

Also, on the premise of the above quote, we are faced with the unending question they don’t address. Where did God come from? If the individuals who wrote the article are so certain that matter cannot come from nowhere and things can’t just start existing, then how did God come to exist? It is convenient for them that they did not address this issue for I doubt they have an answer. It starts a never-ending cycle of who created God, and then who created God’s creator. At some point, the writers of this article would have to deviate from their logical argument to explain how God exists and how, therefore, we exist. This is one reason why God’s existence has yet to be proven, at least to my knowledge, in a logical fashion. It isn’t possible. It will almost always invariably come down to personal experience attributed to a God that a person has been taught of.

 

I’m going to have my fiancée look at this article and post his opinions on here. He is much more educated in the science than I and has a better overall understanding. What I have stated here is based on my limited understanding and knowledge of the universe and scientific law. Don’t take my word for it, check it all out yourself.

 

Again, nice to see you here IL!

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I'm a long way from being a scientist, but this is a stupid argument. Let's see. Let's see, if inanimate objects always existed, why couldn't the Christian god, the most notably complex being ever proffered in the world of fiction have always existed? Occam's razor lops the later right off at the creative nuts. You can see, touch, smell, prove matter. Show me biblegod.

 

One question which inevitably comes up in a discussion of this nature is what is the origin of God? If God created matter/energy, and designed the systems that have propelled matter into its present arrangement, who or what accomplished that for God? Why is it any more reasonable to believe that God has always “been” than it is to say that matter has always “been”? As Carl Sagan has said, “If we say that God has always been, why not save a step and conclude that the universe has always been?” (Cosmos, p. 257).

 

Christians will stoop to lying just to grab converts. Shameful.

 

But since Christians are intent on mischaracterizing the 2nd law of thermodynamics, it's not surprising that they would lie about the first law; energy can neither be created nor destroyed.

 

From a purely scientific standpoint, it is easy to demonstrate that matter cannot be eternal in nature. The universe is expanding from what appears to be a beginning point in space/time, which appears to be a one time event. Hydrogen is the basic fuel of the cosmos, powering all stars and other energy sources in space. If the fuel of the universe has been used eternally, that fuel will eventually be depleted, but the evidence is that the cosmological gas gauge, while moving toward “empty,” is yet a long way from being there

 

That website is tripe. It's sole intent is to mislead the uninformed and bolster the faith of those who have already made up their minds. Didn't you have to get an undergrad degree to become a nurse? Didn't they require a few science classes in your core?

 

 

you keep bashing what i written, calling it stupid, but i have yet to see scientific proof of evolution. where is the scientific rebuttle. i have read the bible, studied science and i came to my own conclussion.

 

and yes i have taken numerous science classes AP 1and 2, microbiology, chemistry were the science prerequisites to get into nursing school. not to mention the a/p you take during.

 

take for instance the T helper system of how you become imune to a virus. it reaffirms my beliefs that something much greater than myself, made me. i don't think that system is there just by chance of evolution.

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you keep bashing what i written, calling it stupid, but i have yet to see scientific proof of evolution.

 

First.

Guess what.

Even if evolution was wrong (which it isn't), it wouldn't make the bible true. It's not.

 

Second.

I would urge you to watch this documentary.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=64...7&q=naked+truth

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Freeday, evolution isn't chance. Read Richard Dawkins. And if you were in medical school and took those classes, how come you don't understand evolution? It happens to viruses all the time. Surely you've studied that.

 

I have read your article with an open mind and found it unsubstantial for such an extraordinary claim. It isn't stupid, just unsubstantial for what it is trying to prove.

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take for instance the T helper system of how you become imune to a virus. it reaffirms my beliefs that something much greater than myself, made me. i don't think that system is there just by chance of evolution.

Do you deny that evolution happens? I'm not talking the Theory of Evolution, but evolution itself?

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you keep bashing what i written, calling it stupid, but i have yet to see scientific proof of evolution. where is the scientific rebuttle. i have read the bible, studied science and i came to my own conclussion.

 

and yes i have taken numerous science classes AP 1and 2, microbiology, chemistry were the science prerequisites to get into nursing school. not to mention the a/p you take during.

 

take for instance the T helper system of how you become imune to a virus. it reaffirms my beliefs that something much greater than myself, made me. i don't think that system is there just by chance of evolution.

 

Thanks for dodging and then throwing out the red herring. I neither mentioned evolution nor bashed. I simply pointed out a few of the plethora of logical flaws in the website you posted.

 

And, if you haven't seen scientific evidence for evolution it is only because you have your xtian blinders on. The mountian of evidence of myriad.

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Freeday, evolution isn't chance. Read Richard Dawkins. And if you were in medical school and took those classes, how come you don't understand evolution? It happens to viruses all the time. Surely you've studied that.

Maybe the standards for science in Mississippi are as low as they are in Kansas? "God made this here", is probably part of the biology curriculum?

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Freeday, evolution isn't chance. Read Richard Dawkins. And if you were in medical school and took those classes, how come you don't understand evolution? It happens to viruses all the time. Surely you've studied that.

 

I have read your article with an open mind and found it unsubstantial for such an extraordinary claim. It isn't stupid, just unsubstantial for what it is trying to prove.

 

 

thats all i ask is you read with an open mind. and i have read your articles with an open mind. i will watch the video later. i have some stuff to do today.

 

take for instance the T helper system of how you become imune to a virus. it reaffirms my beliefs that something much greater than myself, made me. i don't think that system is there just by chance of evolution.

Do you deny that evolution happens? I'm not talking the Theory of Evolution, but evolution itself?

 

i beleive in adaptation. slightly different from evolution.

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take for instance the T helper system of how you become imune to a virus. it reaffirms my beliefs that something much greater than myself, made me. i don't think that system is there just by chance of evolution.

Do you deny that evolution happens? I'm not talking the Theory of Evolution, but evolution itself?

Good question because there are Christians who do believe in evolution but take issue with explanations that claim to exclude any need for a creator, e.g Pope John Paul II said over 10 years ago that evolution was more than a theory.

 

One thing I would like to ask is why do the explanations I have read about evolution, that go along the lines of because of C follows B follows A etc..etc, assume the "how" explains the "why". Am I correct in making a distinction between "how" and "why"? Richard Dawkins was very prone to this, mixing up the "how" with the "why" if I remember correctly.

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i beleive in adaptation. slightly different from evolution.

 

:lmao:

 

Oh geez, I have to ask......just HOW is "adaptation" different from evolution? Adaptation is representative of evolution you goober! Adaptation is the baby step of the evolutionary process!

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Hello, everyone!

 

I am new to this whole atheist thing. I am actually a former fundy. I am so glad i am I free from the absurdities of religion. .....I am now a marked woman by my christian friends for becoming atheist. I am becoming the subject of many prayers to this god they think exsists.....

 

Hey welcome IL! I love it: "I am now a marked woman..." Ha! When people in my family tell me they're praying for me, I try and get them to pray that I'll get a raise at work. At least their hearts will be in the right place. :grin:

 

Aside from the annoying highjacked thread which doesn't seem to really involve you at all, welcome!

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i beleive in adaptation. slightly different from evolution.

 

:lmao:

 

Oh geez, I have to ask......just HOW is "adaptation" different from evolution? Adaptation is representative of evolution you goober! Adaptation is the baby step of the evolutionary process!

 

 

Let me answer for FD. The bible speaks of "kinds." Creationists believe that these kinds can adapt, but that new species cannot be formed. It's just more of the same trying to make the science fit the book.

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Anyone else suspect Freeday being a spoof?

Me! :wave:

 

I suspect Freeday and foolfromms are one and the same, just out for a joke.

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Anyone else suspect Freeday being a spoof?

Me! :wave:

 

I suspect Freeday and foolfromms are one and the same, just out for a joke.

That's kind of my hunch too. But I'll play along. It's always fun to swing at these things, until it gets boring. :wicked:

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