I Took The First Small Step In Coming Out To My Wife

[sdelsolray]

Well, I am 100% out to my wife.  She asked some very direct questions about my religious beliefs and I gave her some very direct, honest answers.  I felt pretty bad for her.  She looked like someone punched her in the stomach.  She has been fairly depressed about it at times but acts somewhat normal at others.

 

Some of the questions she posed to me:

 

What morals do you have now?  I explained that for the most part they are unchanged and gave some specifics (in reality, I live by a higher moral code than the god of the bible).

 

Are you planning to divorce me now that you are no longer bound by a religious vow?  I was surprised by this statement and reassured her that I am committed to her.

 

With no god or religion, why are we here?  I told her my personal philosophy was to live the fullest life possible, be the best husband, father, etc. possible, leave the world a better place than we found it, and help those less fortunate than ourselves.

 

Do you pray and if so when was the last time you prayed for real? No. I prayed about three months ago that god would reveal the truth to me.  Ha ha, the only prayer he ever answered....I feel like now I do know the truth...there is no god.

 

Have you told anyone about your deconversion and what will you say if someone asks?  No. If asked I will tell them the truth.

 

In general, I feel pretty good.  I don't like to see my wife in emotional pain but am glad that I am able to be open with her.  It is weird being around religious things (wedding, church) with her now that she knows.  We are in uncharted water regarding how we handle some things now but I feel pretty good that we are going to come through my deconversion with our marriage intact.  I know we aren't out of the woods yet but I feel optimistic based on how it has gone so far.

Good answers.  No, excellent answers.  Honest, non-threatening, consistent and simple.

[LongWayAround]

The conversations continued but there is a bit of anger coming through from her side now.  She was trying to convince me that the bible must be true because:

• No group of humans could come up with a story that complex.  (I brought up Lord of the Rings or Harry Potter and her counter was that it was easier because it was only one author.) I didn't go into all of the contradictions and general in-cohesive mess that the bible is.
• Why would someone include the really wicked things that god's people did if it weren't true (i.e. Lot's daughter's getting him drunk and having sex with him, etc.).

Neither of those were very convincing arguments for me.  It is nice to be able to discuss religious things and be completely honest about how I feel about them.

 

We talked about archaeological evidence (or the lack thereof).  Her arguments went along the lines of "since archaeology says there was a Pharaoh in Egypt and the bible says there was a Pharaoh in Egypt, the bible is true."  I pointed out that archaeology has looked for evidence of many biblical stories where there should be evidence and found none (i.e. captivity in Egypt, exodus from Egypt, conquering promised land, David's kingdom, Solomon's kingdom, etc.).

 

My wife also said that she feels like the end times are near because of everything that is happening.

 

I envy those of you whose spouses have also deconverted.

[DrNo]

The conversations continued but there is a bit of anger coming through from her side now.  

 

This is natural. Think "stages of grief." Anger is a part of grief, but it won't last forever.

 

 

I envy those of you whose spouses have also deconverted.

 

Hang in there. Just because your wife has not deconverted doesn't mean you can't have a great marriage. You have extra challenges to navigate, but if you are both sincere about it you can get through it.

[Deidre]

I'm not really an advocate for marriage as I think it subtly suggests that two people become property or something of the other. Like why does your newfound desire to abandon Christianity put your marriage in jeopardy? I can see if you were suddenly living a destructive immoral life but you're not. You just don't believe anymore.

 

That said, I don't like to see people split up and get divorced if there is still love there. I hope whatever the best outcome is for you both, that it happens.

 

I'm sorry things are hard right now for you both.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

We talked about archaeological evidence (or the lack thereof).  Her arguments went along the lines of "since archaeology says there was a Pharaoh in Egypt and the bible says there was a Pharaoh in Egypt, the bible is true."  

Homer said that Troy existed, and archaeology has confirmed that it did; does she accept the Odyssey as fact?

[jdparker520]

Thanks so much for openly walking through your coming out process like this!  I've been out with my christian wife for 18 months now, and even though we're in a pretty good place it is extremely helpful to hear from others going through the same journey.

 

As your wife brings out the standard apologetics, my advice would be to just ask her questions rather than attempt counter arguments.  Questions are non threatening, and don't tend to lead to heated debates.  No one wins heated debates.  As an added bonus, you're modeling the exact behavior you want her to adopt, i.e. questioning her beliefs.

 

I'd highly recommend Peter Boghossian's work on the subject.  It's been extremely helpful to me in terms of engaging my wife in a constructive manner.

[LongWayAround]

As your wife brings out the standard apologetics, my advice would be to just ask her questions rather than attempt counter arguments.  Questions are non threatening, and don't tend to lead to heated debates.  No one wins heated debates.  As an added bonus, you're modeling the exact behavior you want her to adopt, i.e. questioning her beliefs.

 

This is a good point.  In the beginning of our talks about my doubts, it was a good discussion back and forth.  The last discussion was tending more toward adversarial.  Asking questions might be a good way to take the edge off. 

[LongWayAround]

 

We talked about archaeological evidence (or the lack thereof).  Her arguments went along the lines of "since archaeology says there was a Pharaoh in Egypt and the bible says there was a Pharaoh in Egypt, the bible is true."  

Homer said that Troy existed, and archaeology has confirmed that it did; does she accept the Odyssey as fact?

 

 

Usually during arguments discussions, my wife has the upper hand because she is a more tenacious debater and likes to argue (what's that about a quarrelsome wife or living on the roof?) and I don't.  When it comes to discussing the bible or subjects related to biblical issues like archaeology, science, church history, etc., I know far more than she does.  She tends to repeat arguments that she has heard from the pulpit or from other christians but has no real depth of knowledge to back up the arguments.

 

In the case of  "since archaeology says there was a Pharaoh in Egypt and the bible says there was a Pharaoh in Egypt, the bible is true", I used the example of the movie Independence day.  Some of the movie is set in and around the white house.  But, just because the white house exists doesn't mean the other events that are depicted in the movie really occurred.    

[Deidre]

 

 

 

I think some of you make it harder than necessary. If this destroys your marriage, it wasn't really strong to begin with. And that is the main truth you need to all face. If your spouse fights you tooth and nail or shuns you, it is time to ask yourself if the relationship is honestly what YOU want. Lots of you walk on egg shells for your spouses. They're grown fucking women, time for them to either accept your beliefs or not. They have choices too.But marriage isn't a prison. You don't have to stay with people who you can't be yourselves with. To me, this could be more of a wake up call as to if your marriages are as strong as you thought they were.I hope you find peace.

  I realize you have very strong personal feelings about relationships, as you've made similar statements in multiple threads with the same sentiment. All due respect, I think maybe this is a situation that, if you don't have any personal stake or a sense of perspective on, it's easy to give trite/simple answers to and pretend they're somehow definitive. I tend to agree with the principle of what you're saying, but there is a give and take in marriage that involves taking the other person (as well as children) into consideration before making choices. If you don't ever want to have to compromise or adjust your thinking/actions based on another person, then it's probably not the best idea to get married. Fact of the matter is that part of being married is realizing that there is TWO people in the relationship that have needs, and some situations don't allow for both partners to have their needs met immediately. Of course that doesn't mean you sacrifice your own needs indefinitely, and I admit that I have some screwed up thinking in this area that I need to adjust. I am trying to separate my Christian ideas about marriage/being a wife from what I believe is just good practices for relationships, so I may be way off on things. I don't intend to make myself suffer through being silent about my beliefs for a prolonged amount of time, but I value my marriage and I care about my husband, so I want to do this process in the kindest way possible for both of our sakes.

Actually, I don't disagree with you. But, at what point, does one allow their identity to be lost for the sake of the marriage? For that is what it sounds like is ''required'' if one is no longer Christian, married to a devout Christian. (but they both went into the marriage as Christians) At what point do you allow yourself to just lose your own identity in order to preserve the marriage?I didn't realize marriage required this. Actually, it doesn't. I'm not recommending divorce, I'm suggesting that good marriages don't require one person to have to live like another person wishes them to.You shouldn't have to live unhappily in order to make another person happy. I believe that if two people truly love one another, each will respect the other. (so long as the other obviously isn't doing something illegal, etc and expects the other person to go along with it. lol) Think we both know what I mean, here. I do respect everything you say here, and I don't disagree. But, I don't think a marriage is worth saving, if BOTH people are not happy in it.

I remember when I first read this exchange of dialogue, I wanted to comment but didn't. One big point that people don't often mention is the Apostle Paul's teaching in 1 Corinthians ch. 7 where he instructs the believing spouse to remain in the marriage as long as the unbelieving spouse is content to stay. They should accept one another as they each are, for the sake of peace. There is actually more responsibility placed on the believing spouse, from the New Testament's (Christian) perspective, accommodate the unbelieving spouse and to maintain a peaceful relationship. A lot of ex-Christians have studied the bible, but this teaching by Paul is prominent to me because I wrote a paper on it in bible college, and a few years later I went through divorce from an unfaithful spouse (who did not want to stay married).

Sorry you went through a divorce.

 

This is an interesting post because it hit me strongly that I wouldn't be able to live with someone who felt the need to quote the Bibke as an answer to anything in life. That would not be a peaceful life to me, turning a deaf ear to nonsense being spewed from my partner's mouth? Ugh. That's just me. I don't hold the Bible as an authority on anything so to waste my life sitting around chatting about it with my lover would be difficult to me. Unless you want to pretend all your life that you really care what your lover is saying.

 

Paul sounds like a misogynist by the way. Hardly worth paying attention to.

Another Biblical dude obsessed with keeping women down in society.

[TrueFreedom]

....to waste my life sitting around chatting about it with my lover would be difficult to me. Unless you want to pretend all your life that you really care what your lover is saying.

 

Do you leave your lover when you run out of things to talk about?  Do most people feel that way?

[Deidre]

 

....to waste my life sitting around chatting about it with my lover would be difficult to me. Unless you want to pretend all your life that you really care what your lover is saying.

 

 

Do you leave your lover when you run out of things to talk about?  Do most people feel that way?

Someone who takes his/her faith seriously, will make it a way of life. If kids are wanted by the couple, then most likely the kids will be raised in the faith of the religious person. It's not a hobby for someone like that, which is why when someone posts here about these things, it's a big deal. It's not like my lover chooses tennis and I don't care to play.

 

I'm not saying you cut and run but the relationship will become less than hoped for by both parties. If they stay together.

 

I don't believe in marriage. I don't think it works. That's why the divorce rate is so high. Ironically, high amongst Christians and not atheists.

[Deidre]

 

 

 

 

 

I think some of you make it harder than necessary. If this destroys your marriage, it wasn't really strong to begin with. And that is the main truth you need to all face. If your spouse fights you tooth and nail or shuns you, it is time to ask yourself if the relationship is honestly what YOU want. Lots of you walk on egg shells for your spouses. They're grown fucking women, time for them to either accept your beliefs or not. They have choices too.But marriage isn't a prison. You don't have to stay with people who you can't be yourselves with. To me, this could be more of a wake up call as to if your marriages are as strong as you thought they were.I hope you find peace.

  I realize you have very strong personal feelings about relationships, as you've made similar statements in multiple threads with the same sentiment. All due respect, I think maybe this is a situation that, if you don't have any personal stake or a sense of perspective on, it's easy to give trite/simple answers to and pretend they're somehow definitive. I tend to agree with the principle of what you're saying, but there is a give and take in marriage that involves taking the other person (as well as children) into consideration before making choices. If you don't ever want to have to compromise or adjust your thinking/actions based on another person, then it's probably not the best idea to get married. Fact of the matter is that part of being married is realizing that there is TWO people in the relationship that have needs, and some situations don't allow for both partners to have their needs met immediately. Of course that doesn't mean you sacrifice your own needs indefinitely, and I admit that I have some screwed up thinking in this area that I need to adjust. I am trying to separate my Christian ideas about marriage/being a wife from what I believe is just good practices for relationships, so I may be way off on things. I don't intend to make myself suffer through being silent about my beliefs for a prolonged amount of time, but I value my marriage and I care about my husband, so I want to do this process in the kindest way possible for both of our sakes.

 

Actually, I don't disagree with you. But, at what point, does one allow their identity to be lost for the sake of the marriage? For that is what it sounds like is ''required'' if one is no longer Christian, married to a devout Christian. (but they both went into the marriage as Christians) At what point do you allow yourself to just lose your own identity in order to preserve the marriage?I didn't realize marriage required this. Actually, it doesn't. I'm not recommending divorce, I'm suggesting that good marriages don't require one person to have to live like another person wishes them to.You shouldn't have to live unhappily in order to make another person happy. I believe that if two people truly love one another, each will respect the other. (so long as the other obviously isn't doing something illegal, etc and expects the other person to go along with it. lol) Think we both know what I mean, here. I do respect everything you say here, and I don't disagree. But, I don't think a marriage is worth saving, if BOTH people are not happy in it.

 

I remember when I first read this exchange of dialogue, I wanted to comment but didn't. One big point that people don't often mention is the Apostle Paul's teaching in 1 Corinthians ch. 7 where he instructs the believing spouse to remain in the marriage as long as the unbelieving spouse is content to stay. They should accept one another as they each are, for the sake of peace. There is actually more responsibility placed on the believing spouse, from the New Testament's (Christian) perspective, accommodate the unbelieving spouse and to maintain a peaceful relationship. A lot of ex-Christians have studied the bible, but this teaching by Paul is prominent to me because I wrote a paper on it in bible college, and a few years later I went through divorce from an unfaithful spouse (who did not want to stay married).

 

Sorry you went through a divorce.

 

This is an interesting post because it hit me strongly that I wouldn't be able to live with someone who felt the need to quote the Bibke as an answer to anything in life. That would not be a peaceful life to me, turning a deaf ear to nonsense being spewed from my partner's mouth? Ugh. That's just me. I don't hold the Bible as an authority on anything so to waste my life sitting around chatting about it with my lover would be difficult to me. Unless you want to pretend all your life that you really care what your lover is saying.

 

Paul sounds like a misogynist by the way. Hardly worth paying attention to.

Another Biblical dude obsessed with keeping women down in society.

 

Thanks for your sympathies. I went through divorce 24 years ago, however, and after 3.5 years of marriage (4 yrs in the relationship). I did not have any children. The divorce was a dissolution. The experience has no significant effect on my life now, other than having been part of my past experience, and the social discrimination I went through in some Christian environments (e.g., being disqualified from ordained ministry in certain denominations), "guilty by association" due to divorce, regardless of the details and who was at fault. Most of Christianity operates on this principle of "guilty by association" in various matters. However, only the more fundy groups disqualify people from ordained ministry because of divorce.

 

Anyway, I mentioned the passage in 1 Corinthians ch. 7, because it is often overlooked by Christians who want an excuse to divorce their unbelieving spouse. (However, there is the view by some fundamentalist groups that divorce is always wrong except in the case of adultery. Some allow for physical abuse to either the spouse or the children.) In the passage referred to, the only condition Paul places is the mutual agreement to remain together. That is, the believing spouse should not try to impose religion upon the unbelieving spouse. They are supposed to live together in "peace." The unbelieving spouse is essentially "free" to stay or to leave at any time. That's the burden of responsibility on the Christian spouse (to be an example of Christ in that sense).

 

As for Paul's being a misogynist, that subject has been analyzed and debated for centuries. Some of his statements do seem to discriminate against women in the church, while other statements seem to advocate gender equality. Taken on the whole, it is not totally clear. Perhaps a study of Paul's writings in chronological order (rather than in their biblical arrangement of theological importance) would clarify his evolving views on gender issues and others. And some scholars have analyzed his writings in this manner. If you ever want to discuss Paul's views toward women (perhaps a different thread, so this one remains primarily about the OPs subject), I'd be willing to toss Paul around a bit with you. I don't know how much biblical study you did while you were a Christian, and you might not care to to do now. But Paul is perhaps a bit more complex and not as easily dismissed as one might think (i.e., in terms of concluding what his position was on various matters, positions which admittedly did evolve over time).

 

Oh ok, I see, but still...sorry that you had to endure that at all.

 

As for Paul, isn't it sadly amazing how much fucking time we've wasted...and others continue to waste, analyzing someone who may not have ever existed in the first place? lol

 

Sigh.

[LongWayAround]

This past weekend my wife made an over-arching comment about our situation.  She said that when I told her I no longer believed she was shocked and it is not what she wanted for her life but that she knows that she loves me and wants to be married to me and that is more important than my religious views.

[Leo]

Beautiful! Just beautiful!