So If The Trust Was Broken...

[♦ ficino ♦]

3 minutes ago, ironhorse said:

 

There is only one Church. 

 

There are various denominations with different views on minor issues or cultural preferences, but believers in Christ are members of the universal Church. 

Prove this.

[ironhorse]

17 minutes ago, ficino said:

Prove this.

 

The  Universal Church consists of all those who have received salvation through Jesus Christ. 

“For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free." ~ 1 Corinthians 12:13

[TheRedneckProfessor]

53 minutes ago, ironhorse said:

 

There is only one Church. 

 

There are various denominations with different views on minor issues or cultural preferences, but believers in Christ are members of the universal Church. 

Including the polygamous sects of the Seventh Day Adventists, the Mormons, the Eastern Lightening, Chen Tao, and Pentecostals.  Yep.  Clearly all members of the universal church who simply differ on minor issues or cultural preferences.

[♦ ficino ♦]

51 minutes ago, ironhorse said:

 

The  Universal Church consists of all those who have received salvation through Jesus Christ. 

“For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free." ~ 1 Corinthians 12:13

So you have no proof. As usual. So sod off.

[bornagainathiest]

5 hours ago, ironhorse said:

 

The  Universal Church consists of all those who have received salvation through Jesus Christ. 

“For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free." ~ 1 Corinthians 12:13

 

Another circular argument.

 

Ironhorse believes by faith that there is only one church because he believes by faith that the Bible is true, so if the Bible says that there is only one church then Ironhorse believes that there is only one church, because the Bible says so and because Ironhorse believes the Bible by faith, since the Bible says that there is only one church he therefore believes by faith that there is only one church because he believes by faith that the Bible is true and since Ironhorse believes by faith that there is only one church because he believes by faith that the Bible is true, so if the Bible says that there is only one church then Ironhorse believes that there is only one church, because the Bible says so and because Ironhorse believes the Bible by faith, since the Bible says that there is only one church he therefore believes by faith that there is only one church because he believes by faith that the Bible is true and since Ironhorse believes by faith that there is only one church because he believes by faith that the Bible is true, so if the Bible says that there is only one church then Ironhorse believes that there is only one church, because the Bible says so and because Ironhorse believes the Bible by faith, since the Bible says that there is only one church he therefore believes by faith that there is only one church because he believes by faith that the Bible is true Ironhorse believes by faith that there is only one church because he believes by faith that the Bible is true, so if the Bible says that there is only one church then Ironhorse believes that there is only one church, because the Bible says so and because Ironhorse believes the Bible by faith, since the Bible says that there is only one church he therefore believes by faith that there is only one church because he believes by faith that the Bible is true and since Ironhorse believes by faith that there is only one church because he believes by faith that the Bible is true, so if the Bible says that there is only one church then Ironhorse believes that there is only one church, because the Bible says so and because Ironhorse believes the Bible by faith, since the Bible says that there is only one church he therefore believes by faith that there is only one church because he believes by faith that the Bible is true and since Ironhorse believes by faith that there is only one church because he believes by faith that the Bible is true, so if the Bible says that there is only one church then Ironhorse believes that there is only one church, because the Bible says so and because Ironhorse believes the Bible by faith, since the Bible says that there is only one church he therefore believes by faith that there is only one church because he believes by faith that the Bible is true...

 

[Guest end3]

11 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

Raising the question: if there really were ONE god and ONE truth, shouldn't there also be only ONE church?

The one church would be those Prof, that believe faithfully, that humanity does not know the one truth.  It's interesting that many believe in the ability of science to change and adapt in discovering the truth, but not in the ability of humanity itself to do the same. 

 

[Guest end3]

6 hours ago, bornagainathiest said:

 

Another circular argument.

 

Ironhorse believes by faith that there is only one church because he believes by faith that the Bible is true, so if the Bible says that there is only one church then Ironhorse believes that there is only one church, because the Bible says so and because Ironhorse believes the Bible by faith, since the Bible says that there is only one church he therefore believes by faith that there is only one church because he believes by faith that the Bible is true and since Ironhorse believes by faith that there is only one church because he believes by faith that the Bible is true, so if the Bible says that there is only one church then Ironhorse believes that there is only one church, because the Bible says so and because Ironhorse believes the Bible by faith, since the Bible says that there is only one church he therefore believes by faith that there is only one church because he believes by faith that the Bible is true and since Ironhorse believes by faith that there is only one church because he believes by faith that the Bible is true, so if the Bible says that there is only one church then Ironhorse believes that there is only one church, because the Bible says so and because Ironhorse believes the Bible by faith, since the Bible says that there is only one church he therefore believes by faith that there is only one church because he believes by faith that the Bible is true Ironhorse believes by faith that there is only one church because he believes by faith that the Bible is true, so if the Bible says that there is only one church then Ironhorse believes that there is only one church, because the Bible says so and because Ironhorse believes the Bible by faith, since the Bible says that there is only one church he therefore believes by faith that there is only one church because he believes by faith that the Bible is true and since Ironhorse believes by faith that there is only one church because he believes by faith that the Bible is true, so if the Bible says that there is only one church then Ironhorse believes that there is only one church, because the Bible says so and because Ironhorse believes the Bible by faith, since the Bible says that there is only one church he therefore believes by faith that there is only one church because he believes by faith that the Bible is true and since Ironhorse believes by faith that there is only one church because he believes by faith that the Bible is true, so if the Bible says that there is only one church then Ironhorse believes that there is only one church, because the Bible says so and because Ironhorse believes the Bible by faith, since the Bible says that there is only one church he therefore believes by faith that there is only one church because he believes by faith that the Bible is true...

 

You believe that science can change, but you don't allow humanity the same grace?  Heck, humanity gives the problem over to Christ and says uncle.  Would kind of make science a false god....

 

Not circular at all....it ends with Christ.

[bornagainathiest]

56 minutes ago, end3 said:

You believe that science can change, but you don't allow humanity the same grace?  Heck, humanity gives the problem over to Christ and says uncle.  Would kind of make science a false god....

 

Not circular at all....it ends with Christ.

 

No, End.

 

You are comparing apples and oranges.  That kind of comparison is meaningless and (pardon the pun)... fruitless.  

Science is a secular method of understanding the reality that tries to eliminate emotions and personal bias from the way it works.  Whereas humans and humanity cannot be divorced from their emotions.  Our feelings and emotions help to make us what we are.  But they have no place in the workings of science.  Therefore, you are trying and failing to compare two totally different things.

 

Of course humans can change.  There's ample evidence for that in Ex-C.  So, let me list what I have and haven't seen over the eight years I've been here.

 

I haven't seen the Christian Thumbelina change one iota.  She's still the same secretive, manipulative, legalistic person and she hasn't changed at all.

I haven't seen the Christian OrdinaryClay change one iota.  He's on record as saying that he'll never change and sure enough, whenever he pops up, he hasn't changed at all.

I haven't seen the Christian Ironhorse change one iota.  He's still trotting out the same faith-based arguments today that he did when he first arrived.  He hasn't changed at all.

While he was here, the Christian called Stranger said that he would never question anything in the Bible - ever.  So, if he's good to his word, then he won't have changed at all, either.

I haven't seen you change one iota either, End.  You're still as obsessed with connecting genetics to sin as you were eight years ago.  You still make the same illogical leaps of faith and try to connect disparate and dissimilar things, just as you used to, eight years ago.  You still have anger issues and you still have a foul, blasphemous mouth, just as you had eight years ago.  You haven't changed at all, either.

 

It's the Christians who don't allow themselves the grace to change.  

If they did, we'd have seen the evidence of it in Ex-C.  But we don't.  They stay exactly as they are, locked and frozen in place.  Unchanging, unable to change and unable to be changed.

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On the flip side, I've seen many other members change immensely once they've renounced Christ and Christianity.

With the help, care and counsel of other Ex-Christians they've overcome their anxieties, nightmares, obsessive compulsions, depression, suicidal thoughts and similar burdens.  Burdens loaded onto them by Biblical Christianity.  Burdens placed on them since childhood.  Burdens that have caused them hurt, shame and guilt.  Once these burdens are lifted off their weary shoulders they stand up tall, blossom and grow to become happier, healthier and better people.  I've been delighted to see and help many people leave the nightmare of Christianity behind.  They change, End.  They change so much. Much, much more than the Christians.

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Lastly, I'd imagine that you can't see the irony of this. "Not circular at all....it ends with Christ."

 

You believe by faith that it ends with Christ.

You believe that because the Bible says so.  

You believe what the Bible says, by faith.

So, you believe by faith what you believe by faith.

Just as circular as Ironhorse.

 

 

[midniterider]

 

15 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

Including the polygamous sects of the Seventh Day Adventists, the Mormons, the Eastern Lightening, Chen Tao, and Pentecostals.  Yep.  Clearly all members of the universal church who simply differ on minor issues or cultural preferences.

 

Tell a Pentecostal that you're a Mormon or a Catholic or Jehovah's Witness and they'll "pray for you." Non-fundamentalist Christians were called "lost.' They were definitely not welcomed as brothers in Christ. My  non-denominational Christian bookstore had little booklets to buy concerning the false doctrine of these and other denominations. They were tossed in there with the same kind of booklets about Scientology, Buddhism, and Islam.

 

If a Baptist decides to regularly go to a Catholic church they will attempt to convert you to Catholicism. If a JW goes to a Baptist church the Baptists will attempt to convert the JW to be a Baptist. Someone's 'minor differences' will be tolerated as a guest but you will be ushered out if you want to start teaching that a blood transfusion is wrong in a Pentecostal church. Or saying "Mother Mary full of grace...blah blah" in a Protestant church .... or being slain in the spirit/speaking in tongues in a Catholic church.

[midniterider]

4 hours ago, end3 said:

You believe that science can change, but you don't allow humanity the same grace?  Heck, humanity gives the problem over to Christ and says uncle.  Would kind of make science a false god....

 

Not circular at all....it ends with Christ.

 

I bet you'll say it begins with Christ too.

[bornagainathiest]

I owe you something of an apology, End.

Usually I don't make unsubstantiated statements or claims that aren't backed up with evidence.  But in my previous post I said that you hadn't changed.   That you still have anger issues and you still have a foul, blasphemous mouth,  just as you had when I joined Ex-C, eight years ago.  Those were unsubstantiated statements about your behavior and claims about your conduct here that I failed to back up with evidence.  So, I'll put this oversight right by citing evidence to support my claims and statements.

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Back in Sept 2010, in this thread...   http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/41161-did-the-devil-make-me-do-it-or-was-it-god/  ...in the following order...

 

you called Mr.Pappy an asshole,  

you insulted sconnor's wife,  

you called Mr. Pappy an incredible moronic stupid fuck jackass,  

you called Mr. Pappy a worm,  

you called Mr. Pappy a dumbass,  

you insinuated that it was sconnor's Multiple Sclerosis that was affecting his ability to understand,

you call everyone else participating in thread, 'pathetic'

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When it comes to the blasphemous misuse of your God's name, you do it so often you probably aren't even aware of it.  

You also mix your blasphemy freely with personal insults and filthy words, written in anger against others.

 

gheez, worse than hell for sure.   http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/24568-how-exactly-is-living-an-average-life-wicked/?page=2 

gheez, he's 21, cut him some slack...   http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/26307-any-ill-will-toward-christians/?page=5&tab=comments#comment-401350  

Gheez Scott, it ain't that hard   http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/40014-im-a-christian-again/?page=30&tab=comments#comment-590531

Gheez Hans, aren't there rules for this?   http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/34400-wwwonlinechristianityteachercom/?page=2&tab=comments#comment-499282

Oh, I don't personally give a shit. AM's original statement was less than adequate. And then the whole gang has to run in and agree.....gheez, what a life.

http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/32311-an-athiest-not-at-peace-part-1-miracles/?page=2&tab=comments#comment-473512

Gheez folks.  http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/32043-christians-fess-up-to-your-beliefs/?page=2

Gheez already.....   http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/31555-absolute-morality-does-it-exist/?tab=comments#comment-465136

Gheez folks.....starting to piss me off this morning.  http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/31178-dont-believe-in-evolutiongive-us-your-theory-christians/?page=4&tab=comments#comment-462378

gheez, how could the teaching be that far off.   http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/40923-question-for-the-christians/?page=7&tab=comments#comment-601104 

gheez, no, no, no....  http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/29104-questions-will-get-you-in-trouble/?page=2&tab=comments#comment-434232

.....gheez folks, he asked for proof...   http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/29370-im-not-convinced/?page=5&tab=comments#comment-438488 

Gheez guy, do you want me to explain...  http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/28895-the-horrible-implication-of-their-doctrine/?tab=comments#comment-430704

.....gheez, guy.   http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/27644-terrorist-attack-in-mumbai/?page=3&tab=comments#comment-415633

Gheez woman.   http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/28441-hell-an-excessive-punishment/?page=5&tab=comments#comment-425416

Gheez, I am going to have to quit this gutless camp.  http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/29556-wheres-my-squiddie/?tab=comments#comment-440186

 

Btw, as well as dishonoring your God's name in one particular thread, you excelled yourself in your use of foul and insulting language.

 

 ...so fucking simplistic.....

 

...you boneheads...

 

...go fucking figure...

 

 Idiots....most of you."

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Those are historical examples of your foul and blasphemous mouth, taken from your many years of posting in Ex-C.  

But just eighteen days ago, the very same filth and blasphemy came vomiting out of you - clearly showing that you haven't changed at all.

 

 

http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/77237-is-righteousness-a-mechanism/?page=3&_fromLogin=1

 

"Do YOU understand the fucking difference.  Gheeze BAA, get your shit together."

 

"The fact that someone uses the research to give light to explanation is IN DE PEN DENT of the fucking science.  YES!!!!! YES!!!!! YES!!!! I fucking understand that.  God you are thick."

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So there is the evidence, End.

You haven't changed one iota in the eight years I've been a member.  You're still the same angry, foul-mouthed blasphemer that you were back then.  You haven't changed.  You've been given the grace to change by God and by us and in return you've spat upon Him and upon us.  Time and time and time again. 

 

So, the next time you talk about grace or relationships or about God changing us - look in the mirror.