Conversion, Spiritual Epiphanies and Mystical Experiences

[Vigile]

Give me a break, simply giving you a lesson in history does not make one a racist.

 

Of course not. It's the dubious correlation that you make between demonic practices and black music that makes your views racist.

[Open_Minded]

People will label anything racist these days. Is this what this Pathetic diatribe is coming to? Give me a break, simply giving you a lesson in history does not make one a racist......

 

Oh Brother...

 

Let me guess

• You live in a very rural area
  
• You're male
  
• You like guns - lots of them
  
• You dislike government in general
  
• The United Nations is the work of the devil.
  
• The main organization of your life and where you get your "history" lessons has "militia" and "aryan nation" in the title - or its constitution - or both.
  

 

How close am I???????

[Vigile]

Careful OM, that sounds a lot like Nivek. Except the last two of course. LOL

[Open_Minded]

Careful OM, that sounds a lot like Nivek. Except the last two of course. LOL

 

 

The last two make all the difference.

[Antlerman]

All the Churchs you quoted all have outside sources for there beliefs accept maybe the Assemblies of God. God committed the judgement to Jesus Christ and Christ committed the judgement to the Word. I still remember reading somewhere it said that the serpent was more subtle than any other beast of the field. Many have strayed away from the Word. That easy to expain the different denominations. When these men got away from the Bible and made there own doctrines then they created there own followings based on there own extra text not found in the Bible.

No they don't. What outside source do the Lutherans use? In fact what outside source other than the Bible does any of the Christian denominations use, outside of the RCC, and the Mormons with the Book of Mormon?

 

Citing a passage like the sneaky snake verses can be used by any cult under the sun to keep it's membership under their control. What I hear you talking about to me sounds identical to me as the Taliban's view of how man should live for God. I'll bet they use all sorts of scare tactics to keep control, like "the devil will try to get you to doubt this". Classic brain-washing technique of cults. You should look at that in regard to what you believe, if your faith is strong enough to withstand an examination like that.

 

Where did I damn anyone? Calling one a fool for not knowing God is not damning anyone

You use the Bible to call them fools. You are using the Bible to pass judgment on others. You are violating the spirit of the beilfs you proport to value. When I see this, I see you doing this because you need to feel better. You are not qualified to be my judge. Your figure you claim to worship and follow specifically warned against this "call no man a fool". So are you saying that those outside the church are not to be viewed as men? Not to be viewed as humans? You make me wonder if that's how you see others who aren't in your cult.

 

If there is more dignity and respect amongst the gentiles, how is your "conversation" (KJV verbiage there) before men a testimony to the spirit of Christ in you? Nope, I don't see it. Instead what I see is a legalistic, self-righteous Pharisee - you know, the "fundamentalists" of Jesus' day?

Give me a break that is kind of harsh words for one saying one is a fool for not believing in God. It seems to me you act just as the pharisees of Jesus's day condeming God and condeming Jesus Christ and not accepting him at his word, that a modern day pharisee. A simple bible preacher reading Gods word with no interpretation is not a pharisee. You denie God I give a vs that says your a fool to do so and now I'm a pharisee. I dont get it?

You call yourself "a simple preacher". Maybe that's the problem. Without really understand who the Pharissees were, you are unable to hear the words of Jesus in condemnation of their approach to religion. You should "study to show thyself approved, a workman that needeth not be ashamed." Jesus' condmenation of the Pharisees was that though they were strict followers of the letter of the law, then didn't understand things like tolerance, forgiveness, compassion, humility, understanding, and genuine love. To the Jesus character in Matthew's Gospel, this was like white-washed graves, that though all clean and holy on the outside were full of death, rot, decay, and darkness.

 

What I hear from you is all about "the Truth!" with a capital T, how everyone else doesn't have it and are in darkness. Open your eyes. You are a Pharissee. You are in darkness.

 

You read the Bible how you want to read the Bible. Same as everyone else. Period. This isn't about what the "Bible says", it's about what you want to see. Sad really that your fruits betray your heart. I'm still waiting for that apology....

 

It seems like just plain bible reading

There is no such thing as "just plain Bible reading". You have a brain, and therefore must INTERPRET it, just like everyone else. The only way you wouldn't is if you had direct one for one transplant of knowledge via a high-speed USB cable. However, you are "reading", so therefore you have to interpret. The quality of that interpretation is going to be based on your knowledge of that culutre, it's translations, it's contexts, contemporary authors, word choices, intended audiences, etc, etc, etc. To do "just plain bible reading", without understanding these critical areas is to refute Paul's admonision to "Study to show thyself approved", and to fall into endless traps of misinterpeting the Bible.

 

From what you say about "just reading", along with your nonsense theology about music to me shows you are in that endless trap of making your own religion. I hope this helps.

 

If people "in the world" are capable of "seeing your light", then so am I. Instead what I am seeing is darkness in you, my young Pharisee.

 

 

A simple bible preacher preaching the bible doesnt make one a pharisee, a pharisee is one who preach what he does not do. The subject was believing in God as I alluded to with the reference to fools. Since I do believe in God and believe Gods word that it is a fool who doesnt, this does not make a pharisee.

I'm honestly thinking you should drop the word "simple" Bible preacher. Honestly it's more "ignorant" Bible preacher. You need to study. But yes, just simply preaching doesn't make one a Pharissee. Following the letter of the law while completely not understanding what it is to be a human is. At best religion should enhance your humanity, make you better. Instead legaistic religions, fundamentalist Pharisees, cover their humanity with a mask. They hide behind "righteosness" while overlooking the weightier matters of the law, like LOVE. So yes, your approach to religion is very, very much what the Pharisees were doing.

 

I find it ironic how that those who claim the loudest to be following Jesus, were in fact the ones he condemned the most.

 

Now if you where offended I do appolgize, but I make no appoligize for God's written word.

You should apologize for using God's word as a weapon. It's your interpetation. You have not yet apologized.

[Open_Minded]

People will label anything racist these days. Is this what this Pathetic diatribe is coming to? Give me a break, simply giving you a lesson in history does not make one a racist......

 

Oh Brother...

 

Let me guess

• You live in a very rural area
  
• You're male
  
• You like guns - lots of them
  
• You dislike government in general
  
• The United Nations is the work of the devil.
  
• The main organization of your life and where you get your "history" lessons has "militia" and "aryan nation" in the title - or its constitution - or both.
  

How close am I???????

 

Well folks - I got curious and did a web search on some of the language Japeth used in his history lesson.... See the following...

 

http://www.touchet1611.org/

http://www.touchet1611.org/AbsoluteMusicI.html

A short review of Ham - Black man's music

From Music! The Big Picture tract

This music has always been a physical approach because of the rhythmic element.

 

The study here is "Where" was this type of music in relation to the world. It traveled from Africa, to Haiti, to America and out to the world. The music remained in it's primitive fashion as it caught the world in it's travels.

 

This "music" always associated with nudity, sexualities, sacrifices and death. Slaves brutalized and bewildered from cultures in the past. Their charms and stomps not only evoked spirits of the gods, they animated and immortalized them. Slaves from African West Coast (with their demon gods and voodoos, etc. were imported to Haiti (Caribbean Islands). Their music, dances, and beats mixed with Catholic beliefs and practices and made voodoo ceremonies centering their worship of the snake-god Damballa through singing, dancing, and spirit possession.

 

After firmly set in Africa based on drums and dancing, and as they worshipped a god or devil, the ultimate experience was to have their bodies possessed by that devil. Dancers always saluted the drummers before they started their rituals. Without the drummer, the ritual could not progress. It is the pulse which links all people to one unit - sending the body into a slow serpentine undulation which begins in shoulders to spine to legs and hips. In 1804, Haiti revolution came to America (New Orleans). Dances of New Orleans started in slums, bars, whore houses, etc. Music called Samba and Mambo were named after gods who offered sacrifices during rituals. The music continued to influence America as a whole country.

 

The music was called Jazz and now is the main "Hamite" element in all of the world's music. The music features complex rhythms and polyrhythmic, percussive sound and a wide variety of ensembles, all of which has always and still does affect the flesh. The music remains closely linked with dancing, both of which re basic to many ceremonies, rituals, and celebrations. Messages & stories are told by imitating the rhythms and pitch fluctuations of words. It is a language that speaks to the flesh - not God's way of communicating! Rock Music grew from Jazz.

 

• Rural area ... Touchet Baptist Church - Touchet, WA - http://www.city-data.com/city/Touchet-Washington.html
  Population (year 2000): 396
  Males: 205 (51.8%), Females: 191 (48.2%)
  
• Guns - Guns for a Christian - http://www.touchet1611.org/MissionaryPage.html
  We love guns - we use guns - we shoot guns - we carry guns - the pulpit has a loaded one all ready for post-911 use. If that bothers you, get one and try it - you may like it. We even have a few "Preach-n-Shoots" throughout the year - you are welcome to inquire about them. A full day of preaching, shooting, eating and fellowship - can it get any better than that? Well, yes it can, but for now, this works for us!
   
  And yes, guns are ok for Christians to have and use - even carry!
  
• Japeth has referred to himself as a "simple preacher" so my guess is he is male - and that he's the Pastor at Touchet - if not the pastor a very close and dear friend.
  

I haven't found the words "aryan nation" or "militia" on the site - but then again I haven't looked that hard and a militia organization could be a big part of Japeth's life outside of his church.

 

Anyway - thought you might be interested in where he's coming from (in more ways than one).

[Jubilant]

Calling one a fool for not knowing God is not damning anyone

 

Which god is it that I am supposed to know?

[Jubilant]

People will label anything racist these days. Is this what this Pathetic diatribe is coming to? Give me a break, simply giving you a lesson in history does not make one a racist......

 

Oh Brother...

 

Let me guess

• You live in a very rural area
  
• You're male
  
• You like guns - lots of them
  
• You dislike government in general
  
• The United Nations is the work of the devil.
  
• The main organization of your life and where you get your "history" lessons has "militia" and "aryan nation" in the title - or its constitution - or both.
  

How close am I???????

 

Okay 2,4, and 5 sound like my DAD! He is a conspiracy theorist. His "history lessons" tend to come from Revisionist Christians and Replacement Christians (that the US is the *New Israel*). :-( Thank goodness he knows my views and still loves me. He sends things to me but they go right to the trash. My guess is that Japeth receives the same exact materials as my Dad.

[Taphophilia]

I thought Landover Baptist, was a way over the top Parody site, evidently, there are really Christian's like Landover parodies.

Thanks, OM for your search:

 

King James Bible Only!

We are as "King James Only" as one can be. Don't even consider for a moment of quoting any Greek or Hebrew definitions and/or those infamous 'better words,' etc. seems to go with today's so-called modern Biblical scholarship. We want God's words, not principles. We believe the KJB is the inspired and preserved word and words of God - it makes no sense to us to lean backward into the past nor is there anything 'new' coming other than Christ Himself. We believe that which is perfect to be the King James Bible and so it has all come spiritually. I Corinthians 13:10 I won't even waste my time with anyone arguing with them about the originals, etc. We are face to face spiritually today through that King James Bible and someday we will be physically face to face with the Saviour Himself.

All those new modern perverted and corrupted Bibles bring to folks 'another spirit' and 'another Jesus.'

 

As you can see, we truly as King James Only as one can be!

 

I don't believe nor will I preach supporting the Great Commission. I won't allow it to be preached here. It is a false gospel if preached today as it does not align with Paul's gospel. I preach the Greater Commission from Paul and it is the Greater Commission that will continue to be preached in this pulpit!

 

Don't label us a Hyper, either! We do not ignore the OT nor do we ignore the Gospels, Acts, Hebrews, James, I II Peter, I II III John, Jude and Revelation. We do know use properly what portions of that Bible are written TO us as compared to all that which is FOR us.

 

[Amethyst]

Oh, and OpenMinded, apparently this church is of the "Prairie Muffin" variety too:

 

http://www.touchet1611.org/BalminGileadPractical.html

HUSBAND/MASTER

 

Be the master and all that goes with being the 'saviour'! Lead as God leads you as He led His Son, the Saviour! You are also to be your wifes savior, so follow the words of your Father in heaven!

WIFE/SERVANT

Always be watching for your husband to come home - and even if he is 'late' - you should be thrilled to see him!

Do your daily work until he comes home!

 

Don't waste your time - he may come home early to surprise you!

 

Serve your husband and your husband only. "Going to work" puts you under a different master!

You can't have two masters!

 

Your concern is your husband, not somebody else's nor is it to be on yourself only!

 

[Japeth]

No they don't. What outside source do the Lutherans use? In fact what outside source other than the Bible does any of the Christian denominations use, outside of the RCC, and the Mormons with the Book of Mormon?

 

 

The Jw selectively Changed vs in the bible for there theology " New World Translation"

 

Lutheran may not have extra biblical text but they are so far gone back to the RCC and into apostacy that there is hardly a reflection of bible christianity left.

 

 

 

 

Citing a passage like the sneaky snake verses can be used by any cult under the sun to keep it's membership under their control. What I hear you talking about to me sounds identical to me as the Taliban's view of how man should live for God. I'll bet they use all sorts of scare tactics to keep control, like "the devil will try to get you to doubt this". Classic brain-washing technique of cults. You should look at that in regard to what you believe, if your faith is strong enough to withstand an examination like that.

I agree many occults and or cults will use vs to beguile there followers

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You use the Bible to call them fools. You are using the Bible to pass judgment on others. You are violating the spirit of the beilfs you proport to value. When I see this, I see you doing this because you need to feel better. You are not qualified to be my judge. Your figure you claim to worship and follow specifically warned against this "call no man a fool". So are you saying that those outside the church are not to be viewed as men? Not to be viewed as humans? You make me wonder if that's how you see others who aren't in your cult.

 

I took what you said and compared it with the Bible, let me remind all who are listing I did not write the bible.

How did you come to the conlusion I ever said you where not Human, I never said that everyone who doesnt believe the Bible exactley as I believe is lost. Saying one is foolish for not believing in Holiday Figure "GOD" does not imply that you are not Human where did you ever come to that conclusion? What makes us a cult because we dont believe in santa clause?

 

I do firmly believe that a man is saved by trusting in Jesus Christ as his saviour apart from any works (water baptism, good deeds, sacraments etc.) I do believe that if one thinks there saved any other way is in a cult. We dont hold our members, you are free to come and go as you please we dont follow them around, make them chant prayers, we dont engage in priestcraft and all that nonsense. We simply believe that Jesus Christ died to save us from our sins and that Hell is real, The bible is infallable. We dont toss you on the street if you dont believe in eternal security, dont believe the rapture of the church. I believe I can still be in fellowship and have disagreements with the brethran for most issues.

 

You call yourself "a simple preacher". Maybe that's the problem. Without really understand who the Pharissees were, you are unable to hear the words of Jesus in condemnation of their approach to religion. You should "study to show thyself approved, a workman that needeth not be ashamed." Jesus' condmenation of the Pharisees was that though they were strict followers of the letter of the law, then didn't understand things like tolerance, forgiveness, compassion, humility, understanding, and genuine love. To the Jesus character in Matthew's Gospel, this was like white-washed graves, that though all clean and holy on the outside were full of death, rot, decay, and darkness.

 

What I hear from you is all about "the Truth!" with a capital T, how everyone else doesn't have it and are in darkness. Open your eyes. You are a Pharissee. You are in darkness..

 

 

I am sad of your opinion. I do firmly believe that the bible is true from cover to cover and is infallable. If I am in darkness then I guess I will have to sort that out in the end. If I where a Pharisee you wouldnt know unless you saw how I lived my life day in and day out. Jesus knew because he was God and could see there hearts, you wouldnt know unless you saw me preach one thing and do another, that would make me a hyporcite and a Pharisee. Jesus condemd the pharisee because claiming the law the knew not the law, (unwashin hands, the women taken in adultry, not keeping the sabbath etc.)

 

 

 

There is no such thing as "just plain Bible reading". You have a brain, and therefore must INTERPRET it, just like everyone else. The only way you wouldn't is if you had direct one for one transplant of knowledge via a high-speed USB cable. However, you are "reading", so therefore you have to interpret. The quality of that interpretation is going to be based on your knowledge of that culutre, it's translations, it's contexts, contemporary authors, word choices, intended audiences, etc, etc, etc. To do "just plain bible reading", without understanding these critical areas is to refute Paul's admonision to "Study to show thyself approved", and to fall into endless traps of misinterpeting the Bible.

Yea but most of it is written so someone with a 6th grade education can understand it, study to show thyself approved also goes with writely dividing the word, knowing its proper divisions or dispensation.

 

 

From what you say about "just reading", along with your nonsense theology about music to me shows you are in that endless trap of making your own religion. I hope this helps.

 

I agree it is nonsense but it was in context with the original author making the claim to use music as an influence on EMOTION. And I was alluding to the fact music is used for this fact. Where it came from and who the orignal prodginy was, well maybe I shouldnt have alluded to this. Sorry if I offended anyone there.

 

 

 

I'm honestly thinking you should drop the word "simple" Bible preacher. Honestly it's more "ignorant" Bible preacher. You need to study. But yes, just simply preaching doesn't make one a Pharissee. Following the letter of the law while completely not understanding what it is to be a human is. At best religion should enhance your humanity, make you better. Instead legaistic religions, fundamentalist Pharisees, cover their humanity with a mask. They hide behind "righteosness" while overlooking the weightier matters of the law, like LOVE. So yes, your approach to religion is very, very much what the Pharisees were doing.

 

I find it ironic how that those who claim the loudest to be following Jesus, were in fact the ones he condemned the most.

Why should I enhance my humanity if what I am doing goes against the word of God if I believe the word of God? Wouldnt that make me an unbeliever then?

 

 

 

 

Now if you where offended I do appolgize, but I make no appoligize for God's written word.

 

 

You should apologize for using God's word as a weapon. It's your interpetation. You have not yet apologized.

 

 

 

Pro 27:6 Faithful [are] the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy [are] deceitful.

[Japeth]

I thought Landover Baptist, was a way over the top Parody site, evidently, there are really Christian's like Landover parodies.

Thanks, OM for your search:

 

Landover Baptist is a false web site, anyone reading into can find that whoever the prodginy is, is not a christian, they dont give there local etc.

[Japeth]

Calling one a fool for not knowing God is not damning anyone

 

Which god is it that I am supposed to know?

 

The God of the Bible, Jesus Christ the physical manefestation of God

[Thackerie]

For Japeth:

 

their = The possessive case of the personal pronoun they; as, their houses; their country.

 

there = a location other than here; that place (Example: "You can take it from there")

 

they're = contraction for "they are"

 

Please, at least try to use good grammar.

 

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!

 

It's hard enough to try to make any sense of the convoluted "logic" of fundies, but trying to read through a mishmash of mispellings and grammatical mistakes is so frustrating that it's rarely worth the effort. These kind of errors just jump out at me and interrupt the flow of the post in my mind. If these people want to be taken seriously, they should try to present themselves as at least having basic understanding of our common language.

[Open_Minded]

Oh, and OpenMinded, apparently this church is of the "Prairie Muffin" variety too:

 

http://www.touchet1611.org/BalminGileadPractical.html

HUSBAND/MASTER <snip>

 

That's not all - this church also believes in raising "godly" children.

http://www.touchet1611.org/BiblicalParenting.html

 

YOUR CHILD MUST BE DISCIPLINED

 

Correct thy son

Prov 29:17

Withhold not correction from the child

Prov 23:13

Chasten thy son

Prov 19:18

Suffering' builds us

Heb 5:8

God commands use of the rod

Prov 10:13; 13:24; 22:15; 23:13,14; 26:3; 29:15

 

________________________________

 

Speaking of family relationships - my guess is the members of Touchet Baptist Church could check, "yes" to at least one of the following points:

• I can refer to my parents as either "Mama and Papa" or "Mama and Grand-papa"
  
• I wanted to marry my cousin - but she was too worldly - so I married my sister.
  
• Most of my children can call me either "Daddy" or "Uncle" - But I do have a few that can also call me "Grand-Papa".
  

[NotBlinded]

This music has always been a physical approach because of the rhythmic element.

 

This "music" always associated with nudity, sexualities, sacrifices and death. Their charms and stomps not only evoked spirits of the gods, they animated and immortalized them. Their music, dances, and beats mixed with Catholic beliefs and practices and made voodoo ceremonies centering their worship of the snake-god Damballa through singing, dancing, and spirit possession.

 

Based on drums and dancing, and as they worshipped a god or devil, the ultimate experience was to have their bodies possessed by that devil. Dancers always saluted the drummers before they started their rituals. Without the drummer, the ritual could not progress. It is the pulse which links all people to one unit - sending the body into a slow serpentine undulation which begins in shoulders to spine to legs and hips. Dances of New Orleans started in slums, bars, whore houses, etc. Music called Samba and Mambo were named after gods who offered sacrifices during rituals. The music continued to influence America as a whole country.

 

The music was called Jazz and now is the main "Hamite" element in all of the world's music. The music features complex rhythms and polyrhythmic, percussive sound and a wide variety of ensembles, all of which has always and still does affect the flesh. The music remains closely linked with dancing, both of which re basic to many ceremonies, rituals, and celebrations. Messages & stories are told by imitating the rhythms and pitch fluctuations of words. It is a language that speaks to the flesh - not God's way of communicating! Rock Music grew from Jazz.

I would like to point out to everyone that a clue to plagiarism with this person is when there are no spelling or grammatical errors. This is no exception:

Music always associated with nudity, sexualities, sacrifices and death. Slaves brutalized and bewildered from cultures in the past. Their charms and stomps not only evoked spirits of the gods, they animated and immortalized them. Slaves from African West Coast (with their demon gods and voodoos, etc. were imported to Haiti (Caribbean Islands). Their music, dances, and beats mixed with Catholic beliefs and practices and made voodoo ceremonies centering their worship of the snake-god Damballa through singing, dancing, and spirit possession. After firmly set in Africa based on drums and dancing, and as they worshipped a god or devil, the ultimate experience was to have their bodies possessed by that devil. Dancers always saluted the drummers before they started their rituals. Without the drummer, the ritual could not progress. It is the pulse which links all people to one unit - sending the body into a slow serpentine undulation which begins in shoulders to spine to legs and hips. In 1804, Haiti revolution came to America (New Orleans). Dances of New Orleans started in slums, bars, whore houses, etc. Music called Samba and Mambo were named after gods who offered sacrifices during rituals. The music continued to influence America as a whole country. The music was called Jazz and now is the main "Hamite" element in all of the world's music. The music features complex rhythms and polyrhythmic, percussive sound and a wide variety of ensembles, all of which has always and still does affect the flesh. The music remains closely linked with dancing, both of which re basic to many ceremonies, rituals, and celebrations. Messages & stories are told by imitating the rhythms and pitch fluctuations of words. It is a language that speaks to the flesh - not God's way of communicating! Rock Music grew from Jazz.

 

From here: The Big Picture of Music

 

Japeth...that is illegal you know unless you wrote this track:

 

"This tract on The Big picture is being made available to you through the members of Touchet Baptist Church, Touchet, WAAny further contact is welcome either by phone at 509-394-2450, through postal mail at P.O. Box 18 or on E-mail directly."

 

 

Well...I see OM has already figured this thief out!

[Antlerman]

Lutheran may not have extra biblical text but they are so far gone back to the RCC and into apostacy that there is hardly a reflection of bible christianity left.

Have you ever wondered how when Christ said, “Upon this rock I will build my church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it,” that his church was not present in the world until some “latter day revelation” of any one of many cults that spung up in the early 1900’s, in the U.S.A.?

 

It seems ironic in light of this, that some “simple preacher” in Tennesse, America found the “long lost truth” of the Bible that got lost in history. It also seems ironic how that if Jesus really did establish a mystical body on the earth called his Church, that it in fact – did not – preval, or grow like a mustard seed into a great bush. Something wrong in this:

 

1. Either the church is no mystical body whatsovever and is simply man creating God in an image of themselves, all the way from the RCC to you

2. He lied and hell is stronger than his Body on earth in the form of the Church

3. You are not following his Church and the RCC is the true body of Christ on earth

 

Take your pick. I choose number one.

 

Citing a passage like the sneaky snake verses can be used by any cult under the sun to keep it's membership under their control. What I hear you talking about to me sounds identical to me as the Taliban's view of how man should live for God. I'll bet they use all sorts of scare tactics to keep control, like "the devil will try to get you to doubt this". Classic brain-washing technique of cults. You should look at that in regard to what you believe, if your faith is strong enough to withstand an examination like that.

I agree many occults and or cults will use vs to beguile there followers

And they use the same techniques you do. This to me is telling. But the real point is this, to say to me that “the devil is trying to get me to doubt this”, is no more meaninful to me than Jim Jones saying it.

 

My belief is this: If God exists, and it does in fact reveal knowledge to man, then there is no offense to God if we examine it to see if in fact is holds up to careful examination. How could God be offended at that? Wouldn’t that suggest it has something to hide? Since I didn’t believe either of those things, I examined my beliefs which were similar to yours and guess what? They didn’t stand. BTW, I wanted to believe them but they violated intellegence.

 

Does God want you to sever yourself from reason, to deny you have a rational mind? Only a cult would tell you that you have to in order to be saved.

 

How did you come to the conlusion I ever said you where not Human, I never said that everyone who doesnt believe the Bible exactley as I believe is lost. Saying one is foolish for not believing in Holiday Figure "GOD" does not imply that you are not Human where did you ever come to that conclusion? What makes us a cult because we dont believe in santa clause?

Did Jesus say to call no man a fool? Did you? Didn’t Jesus know that verse that you used against us when he said, “Call no man a fool”? I question whether you get around this by saying we are not “men” because we are not believers. You quoted the “who is my brother” verse to say that only believers are. Yet it says “call no man a fool”. Are non-believers less worthy of you acting with respect towards them as you do believers? Is it productive to call strangers “fools”? Is that about them, or about you?

 

I see that as a problem with how you believe.

 

We dont hold our members, you are free to come and go as you please we dont follow them around, make them chant prayers, we dont engage in priestcraft and all that nonsense.

There are many ways to “hold” a member. Psychological threats are a huge part of cults. Do you imply or otherwise state directly that they will loose their salvation, or fall away from God’s protection, or invite the devil into their lifes if they fall away from the church? Yes? Then that is coercion. You can hold the door open for them all you want, but that is a fallacy when you hold them inside via fear.

 

If any belief of Christianity that has appeal, it would a Universalist belief that God loves and saves everyone. In a case like that, then rather than coming to God out of fear of damnation, you come out of thankfullness, out of a heart of deep gratitude. Instead, the second you mention hell as a “consequence” of “not believing”, or “not obeying”, or “not ______ fill in the blank”, it is not sincere love that motivates, it’s fear and coersion. “Free to leave the church”? Hardly.

 

We simply believe that Jesus Christ died to save us from our sins and that Hell is real, The bible is infallable. We dont toss you on the street if you dont believe in eternal security, dont believe the rapture of the church. I believe I can still be in fellowship and have disagreements with the brethran for most issues.

 

You call yourself "a simple preacher". Maybe that's the problem. Without really understand who the Pharissees were, you are unable to hear the words of Jesus in condemnation of their approach to religion. You should "study to show thyself approved, a workman that needeth not be ashamed." Jesus' condmenation of the Pharisees was that though they were strict followers of the letter of the law, then didn't understand things like tolerance, forgiveness, compassion, humility, understanding, and genuine love. To the Jesus character in Matthew's Gospel, this was like white-washed graves, that though all clean and holy on the outside were full of death, rot, decay, and darkness.

 

What I hear from you is all about "the Truth!" with a capital T, how everyone else doesn't have it and are in darkness. Open your eyes. You are a Pharissee. You are in darkness..

 

 

I am sad of your opinion. I do firmly believe that the bible is true from cover to cover and is infallable. If I am in darkness then I guess I will have to sort that out in the end. If I where a Pharisee you wouldnt know unless you saw how I lived my life day in and day out. Jesus knew because he was God and could see there hearts, you wouldnt know unless you saw me preach one thing and do another, that would make me a hyporcite and a Pharisee. Jesus condemd the pharisee because claiming the law the knew not the law, (unwashin hands, the women taken in adultry, not keeping the sabbath etc.)

Well of course your belief in infalliblity is simply that, as it has no support externally (or even internally for that matter), but that’s just an aside here.

 

You keep thinking that being a Pharisee means being a hypocrite. It doesn’t. It means being a legalist. The hypocrisy part of it comes into play because it means that even though they follow the letter of the law to a “T”, they miss the spirit of it. They are clean outside and rotted inside. This is why the saying “You shall know them by their fruits” is such a powerful counter to legalism. A heart that is full of love, is patient, kind, respectful, understanding, compassionate – and it becomes evident that is the case because of the actions that follow.

 

You can choose to come into a non-believers site, or an ex-believers site and start quoting verses at them that call them fools, idiots, morons, evil, etc (not that you’ve gone that far), or you can try to understand them and talk to them like people. I think there is a reason Jesus said, “Call no man a fool”. It’s to get you to look at what’s going on in your heart that you feel somehow feel compelled to judge others as "fools".

 

So the Pharisees were not disobeying the law, but they were violating the spirit of it. In my experience in fundamentalist Christianity, and in what I see in all fundamentalists, is exactly what Jesus was so radical about in his turning their practice of religion on its ear. It’s ironic that fundamentalism, while striving to purify the faith bypass Jesus on their way into becoming Pharisees, who had the "Truth", but missed the whole point. Their hypocrisy came when they judged others as "lost" while their religion had become their God. Their fruits bore it out, straining at gnats while swallowing camels.

 

Yea but most of it is written so someone with a 6th grade education can understand it, study to show thyself approved also goes with writely dividing the word, knowing its proper divisions or dispensation.

Oh hardly. I think that hearing things like your skewed views on blacks using the son of Ham nonsence shows that education is an important thing for ministers to have. There’s a reason why major religious organizations require why their ministers go through seminary and become ordained. They need to make sure that they have a least a well rounded understanding of the many and varied ways to approach theology. The down South, or out West rural-type preachers are notoriously sloppy and inconsistent in their theology.

 

(BTW, it’s not KJB. It’s KJV.)

 

You should apologize for using God's word as a weapon. It's your interpetation. You have not yet apologized.

Pro 27:6 Faithful [are] the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy [are] deceitful.

That’s not an apology. It’s a justification that can be used for anything. (BTW, the context is about a close friend - we are at the very best aquantences) Ask yourself this question, was that tactic called for? Did it work?

[Taphophilia]

Landover Baptist is a false web site, anyone reading into can find that whoever the prodginy is, is not a christian, they dont give there local etc.

 

 

 

Japeth,

 

I'm not sure what you mean by prodginy, because it's not a word, but progeny, means offspring.

 

Thank you for pointing out that Landover Baptist is a false website. They might as well be a bunch of atheists.

 

As far as Lutherans being like the RCC. There is Missouri Synod, Wisconsin Synod, and ECLC, each has differing beliefs in Christianity. So, which Lutherans are you refering to?

[R. S. Martin]

The gold

nuggets" are found in the CRIBS, not colleges. "Except ye be converted, and become as little children . etc."

 

It is "BABIES" who master the Biblical texts and Biblical revelations and find the

golden nuggets.

 

Now unless your going to get knowledge you must become as babes!

 

They are the ones Jesus Christ mentioned in Luke 10:21, for there He cites

Isaiah 28 by David via Psalm 8:2, and David lines right up with Isaiah 28.

"Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine?

them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts" (Isa. 28:9).

 

Japheth, if you truly believe this then you must also believe the truth I understood as a child. It is impossible for Jesus' dead body help me get to heaven. In other words, the central basic tenet of Christian faith makes no sense. Period.

 

Here is what you need know if you ever expect master even HALF of the Holy Bible. I am addressing anyone. Follow these instructions; and you will undermine, bypass, and " clean over the heads" of every Christian

I find this is what happens every time I bring up The Question. It passes right over the heads of Christians.

 

professor who ever taught at Moody Bible Institute, Wheaton College, Louisville Theological Seminary, Bob Jones University, Baptist Bible College, Crown College, Regent College, Grace Theological Seminary, Tennessee Temple University, Pensacola Christian Seminary (and College), Piedmont, Cedarville, Pillsbury, Liberty University, and the seminaries at Fort Worth, New Orleans, Denver, Dallas, Los Angeles, Chicago,

and Minneapolis (1890 2004).

 

At least you missed the one I am studying at.

 

QUESTION: How do you happen to know the depths of the hearts of all these many faculties??? I think you are talking about dozens of people you have never met. I don't think you are god or God. No, don't even try to answer this one. You'll just make an insufferable fool of yourself if you do.

[quicksand]

....babble....

You accused Dave of not being a "real" Christian and when I press you, you babble something completely unrelated.

[Japeth]

....babble....

You accused Dave of not being a "real" Christian and when I press you, you babble something completely unrelated.

 

Dave admittidly said his faith was based on emotion, Jesus said by a mans words he will be judged. Faith based on emotion and not faith in Jesus Christ and a constant search for truth led him to abandon Jesus Christ and the Bible.

 

IE. Judas talked with Jesus saw his mircles and was considered by the other apostles a Brother in the Lord and not one of them had any idea that he was a devil. So its no great thing to say your a Christian.

 

Judas never had faith but he played the part well enough so that not one of the other apostles knew he was a devil except Jesus. They passed the cup and each apostle said "Is it I Lord"? Not knowing that it was Judas.

 

So playing the part and actually giving you life to Christ are two totally different things

 

It no great thing Jesus that there will be those who's faith where as the seed that fell into the stony places and then withered away.

 

J

[Japeth]

Landover Baptist is a false web site, anyone reading into can find that whoever the prodginy is, is not a christian, they dont give there local etc.

 

 

 

Japeth,

 

I'm not sure what you mean by prodginy, because it's not a word, but progeny, means offspring.

 

Thank you for pointing out that Landover Baptist is a false website. They might as well be a bunch of atheists.

 

As far as Lutherans being like the RCC. There is Missouri Synod, Wisconsin Synod, and ECLC, each has differing beliefs in Christianity. So, which Lutherans are you refering to?

 

 

Thanks for the spelling correction and the meaning.

 

When it comes to Lutherans I have no Idea what all different sects believe, there may be some that are saved but who knows?

[Japeth]

The gold

nuggets" are found in the CRIBS, not colleges. "Except ye be converted, and become as little children . etc."

 

 

Japheth, if you truly believe this then you must also believe the truth I understood as a child. It is impossible for Jesus' dead body help me get to heaven. In other words, the central basic tenet of Christian faith makes no sense. Period.

Who said it has to make sense? It doesnt make sense to me that everything in this world is comprised of Atom's that I cant see. It doesn't make sense to me that heat does not rise but hot air rises?

 

 

 

 

At least you missed the one I am studying at.

 

And what one would that be?

 

 

 

 

QUESTION: How do you happen to know the depths of the hearts of all these many faculties??? I think you are talking about dozens of people you have never met. I don't think you are god or God. No, don't even try to answer this one. You'll just make an insufferable fool of yourself if you do.

 

 

Just going to each one's doctrine of belief you will find that they only believe the Bible in the originals, leaving scholarship to be textual critics of the Bible. None believe that we have today an infallable word. But a book that contains most of the word of God.

[Taphophilia]

Japeth,

 

No one has seen the Bible as it was originally written, not even the earliest Christians. By the time the last books of the Bible were being written, the originals were already worn out and copied. There were no first hand copies. They were copies of copies of copies and on and on. No one can just believe the originals because no one has any idea what the originals said, and there is no way of knowing what they said.

[Japeth]

Have you ever wondered how when Christ said, “Upon this rock I will build my church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it,” that his church was not present in the world until some “latter day revelation” of any one of many cults that spung up in the early 1900’s, in the U.S.A.?It seems ironic in light of this, that some “simple preacher” in Tennesse, America found the “long lost truth” of the Bible that got lost in history. It also seems ironic how that if Jesus really did establish a mystical body on the earth called his Church, that it in fact – did not – preval, or grow like a mustard seed into a great bush. Something wrong in this:

 

1. Either the church is no mystical body whatsovever and is simply man creating God in an image of themselves, all the way from the RCC to you

2. He lied and hell is stronger than his Body on earth in the form of the Church

3. You are not following his Church and the RCC is the true body of Christ on earth

 

Take your pick. I choose number one.

Because of TV not the Bible everyone thinks the devil is this red dude running around with a pitch fork. But let look at 2 cor 11 and see who are the ministers of Satan.

 

vs 11 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

 

2Cr 11:15 Therefore it isno great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works

 

That Church has been present since pentacost and still is present. The Church is not a brick building but a body of believers. Who have trusted Jesus Christ by faith and not by works

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The RCC is not the true church its priestcraft disguised as christianity, I came out of her and actually got saved after being in her for 34 years.

 

The Church did grow into a great bush despite the RCC killing off millions of Christians thru the ages.

 

 

 

 

 

And they use the same techniques you do. This to me is telling. But the real point is this, to say to me that “the devil is trying to get me to doubt this”, is no more meaninful to me than Jim Jones saying it.

 

 

Thats what I believe, because thats what the Bible say about the issue.

 

 

 

 

My belief is this: If God exists, and it does in fact reveal knowledge to man, then there is no offense to God if we examine it to see if in fact is holds up to careful examination. How could God be offended at that? Wouldn’t that suggest it has something to hide? Since I didn’t believe either of those things, I examined my beliefs which were similar to yours and guess what? They didn’t stand. BTW, I wanted to believe them but they violated intellegence.

 

 

Does God want you to sever yourself from reason, to deny you have a rational mind? Only a cult would tell you that you have to in order to be saved.

What intellegence is this based on? The ever changing science text book

 

 

 

 

 

Of course not that why he gave us his word and preserved them without error

 

 

 

 

Did Jesus say to call no man a fool? Did you? Didn’t Jesus know that verse that you used against us when he said, “Call no man a fool”? I question whether you get around this by saying we are not “men” because we are not believers. You quoted the “who is my brother” verse to say that only believers are. Yet it says “call no man a fool”. Are non-believers less worthy of you acting with respect towards them as you do believers? Is it productive to call strangers “fools”? Is that about them, or about you?

 

Whether I'm wrong or not the Bible stands like a rock undauted midst the rising storms of time.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There are many ways to “hold” a member. Psychological threats are a huge part of cults. Do you imply or otherwise state directly that they will loose their salvation, or fall away from God’s protection, or invite the devil into their lifes if they fall away from the church? Yes? Then that is coercion. You can hold the door open for them all you want, but that is a fallacy when you hold them inside via fear.

If the bibles true and it is The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom

 

 

If any belief of Christianity that has appeal, it would a Universalist belief that God loves and saves everyone. In a case like that, then rather than coming to God out of fear of damnation, you come out of thankfullness, out of a heart of deep gratitude. Instead, the second you mention hell as a “consequence” of “not believing”, or “not obeying”, or “not ______ fill in the blank”, it is not sincere love that motivates, it’s fear and coersion. “Free to leave the church”? Hardly.

 

Universalism is not bible based, if its not a bible based faith then its a false faith according to the Bible. Jesus mentions all these things a consequence of unbelief, if he knows its his duty to tell us the truth. Whether you come with a broken heart, out of fear, or grew up with a silver spoon in your mouth. Jesus Said he who believes on me has eternal life he who believes not is condemded. You can leave the brick and mortor of the building and still not leave the church.

 

 

Well of course your belief in infalliblity is simply that, as it has no support externally (or even internally for that matter), but that’s just an aside here.

Your not looking with a true heart, but the heart a true skeptic

 

 

You keep thinking that being a Pharisee means being a hypocrite. It doesn’t. It means being a legalist. The hypocrisy part of it comes into play because it means that even though they follow the letter of the law to a “T”, they miss the spirit of it. They are clean outside and rotted inside. This is why the saying “You shall know them by their fruits” is such a powerful counter to legalism. A heart that is full of love, is patient, kind, respectful, understanding, compassionate – and it becomes evident that is the case because of the actions that follow.

 

What better love is there than to know Jesus

 

 

 

 

You can choose to come into a non-believers site, or an ex-believers site and start quoting verses at them that call them fools, idiots, morons, evil, etc (not that you’ve gone that far), or you can try to understand them and talk to them like people. I think there is a reason Jesus said, “Call no man a fool”. It’s to get you to look at what’s going on in your heart that you feel somehow feel compelled to judge others as "fools".

I dont think your issue is with me, its with God and what he says in the word.

 

 

 

 

 

 

So the Pharisees were not disobeying the law, but they were violating the spirit of it. In my experience in fundamentalist Christianity, and in what I see in all fundamentalists, is exactly what Jesus was so radical about in his turning their practice of religion on its ear. It’s ironic that fundamentalism, while striving to purify the faith bypass Jesus on their way into becoming Pharisees, who had the "Truth", but missed the whole point. Their hypocrisy came when they judged others as "lost" while their religion had become their God. Their fruits bore it out, straining at gnats while swallowing camels.

 

That’s not an apology. It’s a justification that can be used for anything. (BTW, the context is about a close friend - we are at the very best aquantences) Ask yourself this question, was that tactic called for? Did it work?

 

That’s not an apology. It’s a justification that can be used for anything. (BTW, the context is about a close friend - we are at the very best aquantences) Ask yourself this question, was that tactic called for? Did it work?

 

 

All I can do is pleed with you to accept God at his word in the pages of the Holy Bible, if Fundy offend then dont join a church, but aleast put your faith in Jesus he is the only Promise Keeper.

 

 

 

 

Pro 27:6 Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful.

 

 

 

 

Dont believe me, believe the Bible. My sincere desire is that you come to know Jesus Christ as your saviour. If my speech offended you I do appologize.