Sophronia Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 I think Joseph Campbell is vastly overrated. In the past I've tried to watch some of his video series, and actually found some of his comments quite offensive. Anyone else think his work is weak and overrated? If you like him, why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 Offensive in what manner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Marty Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 Offensive in what manner? I, too, do not understand the "offensive" comment. You list Thor as a god, so the offense can't be at him uncovering the mythology of the xtian meme. I find him facinating, if a little bit of a dry read at times. When I was reading his books I'd read a chapter or two in the morning and it would usually put me in a good, happy mood for the rest of the day thinking about the greater picture of human experience that is told inside myths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted February 28, 2008 Super Moderator Share Posted February 28, 2008 I like the teaching style. I also thought he covered a lot of mythological territory and provided some insight and continuity to the themes they contain. So what's not to like? - Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sophronia Posted February 28, 2008 Author Share Posted February 28, 2008 Most of his stuff is not offensive. However, in one of his videos (sorry, I forgot which one), he comes off as glorifying bloody sacrifices and human suffering. To me, that is offensive, much like the glorification of Christ's bloody death. For me it was sufficiently offensive to turn me off from the rest of his work. Others, of course, will vary. Hence the poll. For those who like him, I'm not trying to convince you to turn against him. Please keep that in mind, and in the same vein, know that I probably won't be convinced to like him, though I'm happy to hear why you might appreciate his work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 Bloody suffeirng is a leitmotif of a lot of myths and religions, form the eternal torment of Prometheus in classical myth to the blood stained altars of the Meso-Americans and the Sun dance of the Native American... I don't know Campbell's personal opinion on the subject, but I know he saw it as a common thread, and that sort of thing excited him, since it affirmed his opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sophronia Posted February 28, 2008 Author Share Posted February 28, 2008 Bloody suffeirng is a leitmotif of a lot of myths and religions, form the eternal torment of Prometheus in classical myth to the blood stained altars of the Meso-Americans and the Sun dance of the Native American... I don't know Campbell's personal opinion on the subject, but I know he saw it as a common thread, and that sort of thing excited him, since it affirmed his opinion In the video I saw, it seemed to excite him a little too much, if you know what I mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sophronia Posted February 28, 2008 Author Share Posted February 28, 2008 Oh yeah, I almost forgot another reason I don't care for him. I think that the advice "Follow your bliss" is a vapid, misleading, oversimplified, feel-good platitude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The-Captain Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 Well Soph the poll is just a little skewed. There is only one "pro Campbell" choice up there, I like Campbell's work okay and might go so far a to call him a genius. More of just an idle admirer of his work, its good stuff and I found it very useful, but I really hold little of an opinion on the man himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWIM Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 LOL who is this? Nvr heard of him... Invent campbell's soup or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 Bloody suffeirng is a leitmotif of a lot of myths and religions, form the eternal torment of Prometheus in classical myth to the blood stained altars of the Meso-Americans and the Sun dance of the Native American... I don't know Campbell's personal opinion on the subject, but I know he saw it as a common thread, and that sort of thing excited him, since it affirmed his opinion In the video I saw, it seemed to excite him a little too much, if you know what I mean. In a T.E. Lawrence way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 Sorry, but Joseph Campbell was instrumental when I de-converted to see religion for what it was. Overrated or not, his work was important, and very unique. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraphicsGuy Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 I quite like the guy. Opened my mind to a lot of meaning behind myths during my deconversion as well. It was new and different to me and made a lot more sense than Xian rhetoric. Not that I've listened to him since or read anything by him lately, but it was sure good to hear a completely different opinion on things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 I like him. Don't know if I would call him a genius but there weren't any other positive options in the poll (other than OK, and he's better than that). I especially liked his series "The Power of Myth" - the interviews with Bill Moyers. His love and enthusiasm for his subject comes through, and I appreciated his wide knowledge of mythology. I am not crazy about little catch-all phrases like "follow your bliss", but overall it doesn't bother me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 Most of his stuff is not offensive. However, in one of his videos (sorry, I forgot which one), he comes off as glorifying bloody sacrifices and human suffering. To me, that is offensive, much like the glorification of Christ's bloody death. For me it was sufficiently offensive to turn me off from the rest of his work. Others, of course, will vary. Hence the poll. For those who like him, I'm not trying to convince you to turn against him. Please keep that in mind, and in the same vein, know that I probably won't be convinced to like him, though I'm happy to hear why you might appreciate his work. I get the feeling that your irritation with him stems from an impression that he tried to "preach" some new gospel or to spread the "new religion" or such? Any impression I got was that he was teaching what all the religions had in common and what they were teaching in turn, and that he was passionate about it. Usually the complaints are the other way around in school... the teacher is way too dry and boring. So how can educators find a middle ground between dry, boring and too interesting and passionate? It's understandable that you're put off by human sacrifice, but honestly... they actually (from historical evidence) do human sacrifices back then, and people were excited and in trance over it. Even today we glorify violence and murder, but we only (morally) allow ourself to do it in video games and movies. The Hero have all the rights to slice the head off in the bloodies way possible, as long as he do something good by doing it. We are still the same animal inside, but we're more sophisticated in how we do it. -- Like Deva said, I don't consider him a genius either, but he was a one-of-a-kind scholar. And who cares about "follow your bliss" if that's the content and context he found was part of many religions? If all religions had pointed to "poop in the bucket", he still would have to say that was the conclusion... Besides, it is not a bad thing at all. What makes up your construct of a "meaning of life", if not that you strive to satisfy your desire? Is it the ultimate good that you're looking for, or ultimate knowledge? Whatever it is, it's something that will give your mind and emotions a state of bliss, happiness and making you content. Now, if that's a bad thing, then why are people doing anything at all? Why are people working to make money? Is most people's plan to work hard, make money, and to waste it as fast as possible on things they don't want, and then die unsatisfied and as poor as possible? Or is it that we're working hard to make money, so we can have better lives - whatever a "better" life really means? So are we not doing exactly that right now, following our bliss? What made anyone of us to de-convert? My reason was the love of wisdom and knowledge and truth. It is my bliss. And I'm following it. If that's a dumb phrase, well, I'll skip the phrase, but I'm still following what makes me happy. -- And Sophronia, I like you, so don't take my opinion above as a personal attack or such. It's just my opinion, and you have yours and it's all good. M'kay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 Well, 'bliss', if defined as 'causeless joy', is the explicit target of religions... if it didn't make you feel 'good' in some way, then you'd not do it... most religious ceremonies I know, from High Mass to Dharma Combat, seems geared to a form of endorphin rush... and if that didn't feel good then people wouldn't free base their way to penury to fund a drug habit that tries to simulate the same thing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 Well, 'bliss', if defined as 'causeless joy', is the explicit target of religions... if it didn't make you feel 'good' in some way, then you'd not do it... most religious ceremonies I know, from High Mass to Dharma Combat, seems geared to a form of endorphin rush... and if that didn't feel good then people wouldn't free base their way to penury to fund a drug habit that tries to simulate the same thing... Very true. But I don't think "bliss" has to be limited to religious experience, but can be viewed in the wider aspect of life experience. And religion is just one "tool" in the box, and often the success of a religion is how many different ways of getting the rush they've incorporated into their traditions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 My point precisely... you'd make a fine Jesuit... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 My point precisely... you'd make a fine Jesuit... Hell Yeah! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolution_beyond Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 Heard a lot about him second hand but never actually read any of his books Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sophronia Posted February 29, 2008 Author Share Posted February 29, 2008 Bloody suffeirng is a leitmotif of a lot of myths and religions, form the eternal torment of Prometheus in classical myth to the blood stained altars of the Meso-Americans and the Sun dance of the Native American... I don't know Campbell's personal opinion on the subject, but I know he saw it as a common thread, and that sort of thing excited him, since it affirmed his opinion In the video I saw, it seemed to excite him a little too much, if you know what I mean. In a T.E. Lawrence way? Sorry, I do not know this Lawrence fellow. I actually received some semantic assistance from a Christian, who helped me put my distaste for Campbell into focus. Campbell is so keen to prove his alleged mythological/archetypal points that he comes off as totally lacking in compassion. That was my impression of this particular video. Again, sorry I can't remember which episode of the series it was. But as for the views expressed therein, one might as well go watch one of the popular "Saw" movies... it amounts to the same kind of thing, in my opinion. If Campbell helped others here develop useful worldviews, that's great and I am happy for you. But I still say he is a jackass, a poser, a pseudo-pundit whose time has come to be knocked from his pedestal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 Campbell is so keen to prove his alleged mythological/archetypal points that he comes off as totally lacking in compassion. Okay. That may be. Passion for one thing can sometimes be taken as lack of compassion for the opposite. Most religious people who want to promote their own religion as the only truth tends to hate Campbell. It's understandable. That was my impression of this particular video. Again, sorry I can't remember which episode of the series it was. But as for the views expressed therein, one might as well go watch one of the popular "Saw" movies... it amounts to the same kind of thing, in my opinion. Wow. Can you please try to find that episode? This is interesting, and I want to see it myself. Please? If Campbell helped others here develop useful worldviews, that's great and I am happy for you. But I still say he is a jackass, a poser, a pseudo-pundit whose time has come to be knocked from his pedestal. Gosh. That's harsh. He really must have pissed on your breakfast cereal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 That was my impression of this particular video. Again, sorry I can't remember which episode of the series it was. But as for the views expressed therein, one might as well go watch one of the popular "Saw" movies... it amounts to the same kind of thing, in my opinion. Wow. Can you please try to find that episode? This is interesting, and I want to see it myself. Please? I would like to see it too. As far as I know I saw all the interviews and can't recall anything like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraphicsGuy Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 Sophronia...did you deem that Campbell was promoting violence in the interview you saw? Did you feel that his enthusiasm bordered on condoning the acts he was describing? I am just wondering if you find violence in movies extremely distasteful, especially in the way that Hollywood very much can "glorify" it, and found Campbell's assertions to be in similar context... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godlessgrrl Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 I couldn't vote in this poll, either. I don't think Campbell was a phenomenal genius, but neither do I think he was "just OK" - he was simply a scholar, immersed and well-versed in a topic about which he was passionate. His work was seminal in helping me to see and understand religion in light of human mythology rather than truly divine inspiration, so I tend to look favorably on it. Fwiw, there was indeed a time in my life when I regarded Campbell with hostility and dislike. It was when I was still a fundy Xian. I disliked him because he basically claimed that my precious beliefs were really not that different or special from any other myths. It's been awhile since I've seen or read his stuff, though. I don't know which video gave you the impression that he got off on violence, but I'd be interested to see it as well. Was it one of the Moyers ones? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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