Antlerman Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 Yeah, Im rather bummed myself...a perfectly good topic that was captivating my interests and that of so many here on the forum until it became a joke. Whatever. I appreciate the people who did add to the discussion, I was able to get a better perspective on both sides of the issue. Thank you. I'm not treating it as a joke. I plan to get back to the actual topic as time permits and hopefully resurrect it as a discussion topic. It's interesting to me enough to devote some real thought and time to it, so its far from a bad topic to just walk all over it. Would you like this topic moved to the Colosseum where it can be restricted to serious discussion? It's your topic... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiracyOfTheHead Posted December 4, 2008 Author Share Posted December 4, 2008 Yeah, Im rather bummed myself...a perfectly good topic that was captivating my interests and that of so many here on the forum until it became a joke. Whatever. I appreciate the people who did add to the discussion, I was able to get a better perspective on both sides of the issue. Thank you. I'm not treating it as a joke. I plan to get back to the actual topic as time permits and hopefully resurrect it as a discussion topic. It's interesting to me enough to devote some real thought and time to it, so its far from a bad topic to just walk all over it. Would you like this topic moved to the Colosseum where it can be restricted to serious discussion? It's your topic... TBH A-man.... I thought the topic would continue unfolding myriad nuggets as it had been doing, we had gotten as far as discussing possibilities on how to fill the void religion leaves behind and to what standard people holding the torch of the New World should be held to if they are to bring down the great monolithic religions that have enslaved humanity for thousands of years. I was really excited to see how the emotion of one moment (viewing the interview) held within it so much that needed to be said and answered for that wasn't immediately in my mind but nevertheless there within, waiting to have the layers peeled off and expose what had truly been irritated by it. As we progressed I saw how much we can perceive intuitively without even knowing it at first and it was becoming for me a rabbit hole of sorts, concerning just what the hell we all really want in life and how we go about it. Are we just big babies trying to get our way?? Getting Ph.Ds and holding titles and gaining attention to do so..... Do people make allowances for their group and allow them to do the exact same things they condemn in other groups?? It really is a great topic, its natural end is a full blown Anthropological discourse on World Relations or something along that line...I dont see the questions being answered easily, the "same old" crap about "they've been bad for a long time now we're allowed to be bad" just isn't cutting it. Neither is the sorry attempt to somehow justify the ends (which we dont even know what they are) with lousy means on the basis that somebody holding a poitical, social, or religious worldview is "Right" when that's exactly what we thought of others in the past who turned out to be wrong...and the means ended up biting us in the collective ass. I think the thread is bubbling with gooey goodness for all to enjoy. I don't know much about the Coliseum, I am assuming that is your forte? I think I vomited on one of the Xtians in there when I first signed up....some dolt going on about Atheists needing to be "true" atheists by acting immoral. And thats all I remember of the Coliseum so I'm going to go on over and check the guidelines and look at the topics and get back to you, I am glad you brought it up. Thanks for thinking about my pet..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlerman Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 I think that thread you mentioned was in the Lion's Den which essentially was saying the natural conclusion of atheism is a nihilistic view. It wasn't a bad topic, but the guy left after I posted a reply addressing his points. Too bad, it could have been an interesting discussion if he had tried to respond. The Lion's Den is a lot more lax and calling someone an idiot for instance is par for the course, but the Colosseum is reserved for more serious discussions where personal insults and the like are not viewed with much joy, as it's supposed to be about the topic not the person in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiracyOfTheHead Posted December 4, 2008 Author Share Posted December 4, 2008 I think that thread you mentioned was in the Lion's Den which essentially was saying the natural conclusion of atheism is a nihilistic view. It wasn't a bad topic, but the guy left after I posted a reply addressing his points. Too bad, it could have been an interesting discussion if he had tried to respond. The Lion's Den is a lot more lax and calling someone an idiot for instance is par for the course, but the Colosseum is reserved for more serious discussions where personal insults and the like are not viewed with much joy, as it's supposed to be about the topic not the person in there. Yeah, from what I remember the question wasn't the problem, it was that he wouldn't take an answer for an answer...kept pressing things without addressing replies and so on. I had heard it before when I was a Xtian, and even then I saw the holes in the argument...so to me it wasnt new and i had loathed hearing my apologist buddies saying it. Yeah, I would like to take it to the Colosseum. Does it remain the way it is or do the problems that mucked it up get tossed into a seperate thread alongside?? There is almost 2 pages of mostly Off Topic content I think. Either way, lets do it. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlerman Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 Topic moved to Colosseum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiracyOfTheHead Posted December 4, 2008 Author Share Posted December 4, 2008 Thanks A-man. I'm going to have to prepare a new statement to kick things up again.....I should have time tonight. For now I will re-post the initial one, for those who jump to the last page and those that got lost in the quagmire of pgs 5 & 6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiracyOfTheHead Posted December 4, 2008 Author Share Posted December 4, 2008 Nahhh...I think i will let it continue from where it was...just make a statement page. It sounded like a good idea at first but Ithink with some ingenuity I can come up with something to circumvent the page and a half of bloopers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiracyOfTheHead Posted December 5, 2008 Author Share Posted December 5, 2008 BTW, I have added an UPDATE to my original FREAK-OUT post from when I first joined ExC last month. It is pretty intense and I know a lot of you were horrified, this is the latest post. Thanks for caring. It is appreciated. http://www.ex-christian.net/index.php?act=...&pid=416710 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiracyOfTheHead Posted December 7, 2008 Author Share Posted December 7, 2008 Im trying to kick this thing up again but Ive been swamped with creating my Blog and figuring out all this web stuff. Some of it makes sense but a lot of it is a pain in the arse. Perhaps, somebody wants to stir it up again?? Anybody??? Anybody??? Let's get this thing rolling again!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiracyOfTheHead Posted December 11, 2008 Author Share Posted December 11, 2008 I've thought it over, what I would like to move on to, if this thread hasnt given its last breath is; Who gets the final word on what is truth and what guidelines should we as humans use to bring the truth to the world without making the same mistakes that religion has made down the centuries? As well as leaving room for the gray areas in religion, philosophy and the sciences. What is the goal here?? I found the Dawkins interaction with Chopra to be just as dirty as a Xtian young earth apologist speaking with an evolutionist, the gist of my OP was not whether Chopra or Dawkins were 'right' about their beliefs or what they teach, but rather how he went about his interview, presentation of the interview and his conclusion whee I believe he used sophistry in order to backhandedly ad hom Chopra, it was all in rather bad taste. And that is why I would like to understand what a person like Dawkins should be doing if his aim is to spread truth to the world and rid the world of the tricks, deceptions and lies that we claim religion uses, shouldnt Dawkins' behavior have some standards? And if so, arent we, his viewers, the readers of his books and articles, or even those that only know a bit about him but support his crusade accountable to give some feedback so that he can know what his collective audience feels?? Since this is what we ask of religious leaders and know that if our leaders whether they be pastors or priests had been set straight in the first place we may not be in the position we are today, is it possible we owe it to this generation as well as the following generations to take responsibility for those we support and fund who are making large changes in the world arena that affect religion, philosophy, science, politics and the spectrum of human inter-relations?? That is my re-opening statement for this thread. I really loved the first 5 pages of this thread and have benefitted from the dialog. I am thankful to the A-man for resurrecting it to the Coliseum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asimov Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 You might generate more discussion if you don't silence everyone and yell at them for their contributions whether or not you think they're valuable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlerman Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 Sorry I haven't been back to this topic. It's still on my burner, but I can usually only deal with one topic at a time when they get more involved. I do have a job I need to make some effort to satisfy, plus I've been transcribing a dozen or so of my piano songs into sheet music form to give to my son for his birthday, plus writing new music, plus many other projects, etc. It's not a dead topic. I'm just focused on the one on Spong right now for the time being. It does tie into this in ways however... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 Who gets the final word on what is truth and what guidelines should we as humans use to bring the truth to the world without making the same mistakes that religion has made down the centuries? As well as leaving room for the gray areas in religion, philosophy and the sciences. What is the goal here?? That's a very strange question. Why should there be a person who gets the final word on truth? The ultimate arbiter of your personal truth must be you and not someone else. And when it comes to mistakes made by religion, we see mistakes made by politics and ideologies too. And atheists, agnostics, deists, pagans, etc, are not free from making mistakes. Society is empirical by nature. All religion, philosophy and science is and has gray areas. Philosophy is the study of the gray areas, but without saying that it always solves them. Science is also the research in to the gray areas of understanding. Religion is obviously very murky, but they're the only ones to claim to not be gray. A lot of religious people believe in absolutes, and absolutes do not exist that way. Absolutes do not exist through authority, but through common realizations and agreements. So science and philosophy allow grayness, while religion doesn't. What is the goal? You mean the goal of humanity? What should be the goal of humanity in general? It depends of how you see humanity. Is it worth saving, or should we just let it go into self-destruction? If we think it's worth saving, I believe we have to--we seriously must--expand beyond this planet. We have to colonize space. And if that is to be reached as a goal, we have to unite in totally new ways and get more international teamwork going, but I suspect that is very unlikely to happen. So even with the right goal, I think we'll fail. The other option is to create a new religion which could replace the old ones. A new myth to erase the old cancerous seclusive religions and give people a focus on moving on. That is also very unlikely to happen. There are new religions out there, but they are not attractive for most religious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiracyOfTheHead Posted December 12, 2008 Author Share Posted December 12, 2008 You might generate more discussion if you don't silence everyone and yell at them for their contributions whether or not you think they're valuable. You're still bitter?? Give it a rest will ya? You and your tag team buddies were having a good ol' time getting my goat and you know it, stop playing the innocent offended poster. Take a day off, read my over a dozen threads and you will see, other than you 3 and once in a while with Florduh...I get along great with everybody and anybody, regardless of their opinions and beliefs, whether they side with me or not. I've made some mistakes and cleared them up when I was wrong. You come my way with a big attitude, trying to put me down and getting in my face as it were and Im sorry but most days you're gonna get dished what you serve and I know you dont like that but thats the fruit of your own behavior. You were all for the bad attitude and the cutting remarks until I started giving it back to you, that looks like a whiner to me. A tough talker who cant deal. ALL I have seen you do since we got into it is complain at me, how I need to change my tune, how I did this and that to you and your buds, not a hint of responsibility on your side, that tells people a lot more than you know. So fine, its all over, you've proclaimed your beef with me, NUMEROUS times and I ignored your taunts and now I have proclaimed my beef with you, I think I was more than fair by allowing the insults to come and holding my tongue, you got a lot of play and you know it, and anybody who reads this thread will know it. So do you truly want to let bygones be bygones and try to get along, even though we have clashing personalities? Which is what I am ready to do, I am willing to look past it all and try to come to some accord, if not for friendship then for the sake of being cordial. Are you willing to do the same?? Or are your next posts going to put me down somehow while you feign to be a peacemaker or pile on more grievances?? You have said your beef, I have said mine, peace or no peace?? The ball is in your court this time, what you choose to say and do next will show your true intentions. Peace or no Peace Asimov. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiracyOfTheHead Posted December 12, 2008 Author Share Posted December 12, 2008 Sorry I haven't been back to this topic. It's still on my burner, but I can usually only deal with one topic at a time when they get more involved. I do have a job I need to make some effort to satisfy, plus I've been transcribing a dozen or so of my piano songs into sheet music form to give to my son for his birthday, plus writing new music, plus many other projects, etc. It's not a dead topic. I'm just focused on the one on Spong right now for the time being. It does tie into this in ways however... NP A-man, its the holiday season, most are frantically busy. I've been patient with this one, I put about a weeks thought into that re-opener, and what I wanted to really get at. I'm in no hurry, you do what you have to do....good luck on that music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlerman Posted December 13, 2008 Share Posted December 13, 2008 OK come on... I moved this topic to here for the intent of it being about the topic and free from jabs and barbs at each other. That's not what I just saw. If someone wants by gones to be bygones than they need to actually let it be that and quite picking it up and engaging in it! In this forum here its about the topic not personalities, and if that can't happen then the thread gets dumped into the Lion's Den and you can tear at each other in personal battles. This is a discussion thread, not that. P.S. If someone displeases me, I don't respond and not make a big fanfare about it. Not everyone likes each other, but hopefully can learn to co-exist. Let it go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asimov Posted December 13, 2008 Share Posted December 13, 2008 OK come on... I moved this topic to here for the intent of it being about the topic and free from jabs and barbs at each other. That's not what I just saw. If someone wants by gones to be bygones than they need to actually let it be that and quite picking it up and engaging in it! In this forum here its about the topic not personalities, and if that can't happen then the thread gets dumped into the Lion's Den and you can tear at each other in personal battles. This is a discussion thread, not that. P.S. If someone displeases me, I don't respond and not make a big fanfare about it. Not everyone likes each other, but hopefully can learn to co-exist. Let it go. You're right AM, sorry POTH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiracyOfTheHead Posted December 18, 2008 Author Share Posted December 18, 2008 OK come on... I moved this topic to here for the intent of it being about the topic and free from jabs and barbs at each other. That's not what I just saw. If someone wants by gones to be bygones than they need to actually let it be that and quite picking it up and engaging in it! In this forum here its about the topic not personalities, and if that can't happen then the thread gets dumped into the Lion's Den and you can tear at each other in personal battles. This is a discussion thread, not that. P.S. If someone displeases me, I don't respond and not make a big fanfare about it. Not everyone likes each other, but hopefully can learn to co-exist. Let it go. You're right AM, sorry POTH. Thanks A-man. Sorry about that. I think me and Asimov have found a peace, so it shouldnt be a problem again. We may find some things in common and move from there. I really dont like having "enemies" for no reason in the first place...we got off on the wrong foot and escalated from there, I apologize for my part in it and thats all I can do on my side...I dont have personal problems with Asimov, I dont even know him, we've just gone round-a-bout on some issues, its over, I hold no grudge and I am pretty sure its the same for him. Let's give peace a chance??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiracyOfTheHead Posted December 18, 2008 Author Share Posted December 18, 2008 Sorry Asimov. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asimov Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 No probs, life's way too complicated to worry about silly things like online discussions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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