"i Am No Longer A Believer Because..."

[gypsy79]

I was shown, how almost every detail I can recall from christian, in one or more amount is found in tons of other religions and histories.

 

This was also what started me on the path to study and deconversion.

[Mister Pappy]

I wouldn't say that it's impossible for anyone to choose belief, though. For those who haven't looked deeply into the subject and/or aren't 100% convinced either way, it may be possible to choose which belief to hold

 

Choosing to agree with one belief or another simply because one has not determined either way what they do or do not believe, is not the same as "believing in your heart" that something is, in fact, true. I still say it is impossible to truly possess a belief in something one disbelieves, simply by making a choice to believe it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[★ Citsonga ★]

I wouldn't say that it's impossible for anyone to choose belief, though. For those who haven't looked deeply into the subject and/or aren't 100% convinced either way, it may be possible to choose which belief to hold

 

Choosing to agree with one belief or another simply because one has not determined either way what they do or do not believe, is not the same as "believing in your heart" that something is, in fact, true. I still say it is impossible to truly possess a belief in something one disbelieves, simply by making a choice to believe it.

 

The operative word there is "disbelieves." Obviously it's impossible to believe something you disbelieve, as believing in something you disbelieve in is a contradiction in terms. I was simply referring to those who aren't convinced one way or another; they may be able to choose to believe either way, but they're technically not choosing to believe something they actually disbelieve.

 

I disbelieve and therefore cannot choose to believe.

[Mister Pappy]

I was simply referring to those who aren't convinced one way or another; they may be able to choose to believe either way

I understand what you are trying to say. I am not being very clear trying to explain my point. What I mean to say is that when one is not convinced either way, it is also impossible to truly believe with the heart by simply choosing to "believe" for this is NOT belief at all. Believe from the heart is by definition being convinced one way or the other.

 

 

I only make an issue out of this, because it is my opinion that a very large percentage of Christians who "claim" to "truly believe", fall into the catagory of "believers" who are not really convinced one way or the other, as you have described them in your statement above. They have merely made a decision to take a side and subsequently have indoctrinated themselves, or allowed themselves to be indoctrinated, to the point that they mindlessly regurgitate the rhetoric they have been fed without much thought having gone into it.

 

This is the reason for the anger one gets when questioning them - their doubt, which is always underlying what they "claim" to "believe", is always just barely under the surface of the facade of belief they have manufactured. There never has been any true believe in the heart - the type of belief that Paul states as necessary for salvation to occur. Does that make any more sense?

 

 

[★ Citsonga ★]

I agree with what you're saying, man.

[Freedom from Guilt]

I no longer believe because

 

1. The god of the OT is a dick. I shudder to think of all the horrible things he supposedly did to mankind.

2. The god of the OT and the god of the NT are not the same. They just don't jive.

3. I don't believe in the creation myth and if there was no Adam and Eve, then where did original sin come from?

4. I don't understand (or want to understand) blood atonement.

 

And now that I don't believe, I'm able to see a host of other issues with christianty. It's amazing what happens when you start to study and see things in a new light!

 

freedom

[ExMan]

It started for me in college, as a religious studies major. I was a Youth Pastor at the time, I just wanted to learn more about the history of my faith before going to seminary. Well, during World Religions I learned a LOT... a lot more than I wanted to learn. Read some things like the Epic of Gilgamesh, the foundations of Egyptian religion, Mithraism, even the old old old books that should have been in the bible but were never canonized. I read a lot... I was dumbfounded. Christianity is just stolen stories from many other religions.

[Mister Pappy]

Read some things like the Epic of Gilgamesh

 

One of my favorites!

[pk62281]

I was willing to accept and rationalize all the things that didn't make any sense (atonement, original sin, contradictions/discrepancies in the bible, etc) as long as I saw that Christians were "different" and that there was power in having "Jesus in your heart"

 

After I realized that Christians are really no better than non Christians, I really started to question.

 

Now I know the Christian argument.. "But Christians are people too! We need Jesus like everyone else!"

 

Yeah but if you're claiming to believe in the one true religion, you really can't say that.

If what you believe is the truth and the light, there better be some fruit.

[Reprobate]

I became fed up with x-tians. Everything from moral failures, to cheating, to lack of integrety, to confusion, to blindly believing everything they are told, to being holier than thou, to trying to push their personal views on others, to wacked out conspiracy theorists, to people with no life, to pastoral sex scandels, to TV preacher scandels, to Robert Tilton, to x-tian music. I got sick of all of it and I could no longer associate with it

[andyjj]

Oh Yah, well where does your 'SOUL' go? ( sorry...couldn't resist sounding like the trolls )

 

Soul? What soul? We were souled out to a lie - natural soulless creatures. Sorry to break the news to you, I know, finding out we have no eternal "soul" is probably worse than finding out there is no Santa (yup, he's a myth too). Hey RationalOKie, I know you KNEW that and you were merely pointing out, in a funny way, how the Fundies react, but forgive me for giving my usual response (no Santa, no Soul, no Shit).

 

Of course just because there is no soul doesn't mean their can't be a bodily resurrection at the end of time. Christianity always seemed a bit confusing to me with the whole soul/body/resurrection thing

[YellowJacket]

I think finding out that Christians can blythly repeat that animals have no soul was one of the things that started me down the de-con path. I can look into the eyes of a canary and see more soul than I do in some humans. And as a Xtian I was LAUGHED AT when I thought I would meet 2 dogs I lost in heaven. Those animals were more loving and devoted to me than any family member. Why would I want to spend a few millenium w/ boring family knowing I could never have a dog or pet? what kind of paradise is that?

 

Soul? most of our "striving" in this life is simply the will to live or some manifestation of the reproductive urge. No different than a white tail buck or a matriach elephant.

[foolish girl]

For me it was studying neurology. Every single human function, including memory, consciousness, communication etc. is a function of the brain. If the brain dies, it is oblivion (like before you were born). According to current medical knowledge with regard to the human brain and nervous system, the "afterlife" can be no more than a myth, a feeble panacea for the fear of death.

I must admit that this was big for me too. I even remember the book that shook my foundations: The Man Who Mistook His Wife for a Hat.

 

I was looking for a good book the other day and almost bought this one- so I take it you recommend it for neurology junkies?

[foolish girl]

For me, I felt insincere, and then irritated in church- so I started to read the bible. That made it worse.

 

Then one night, I don't know why- I searched on apologetics for ISLAM. And guess what?! they had plenty too. Comparable-type stuff. I had never even considered that before.

 

Made me look at my own apologetics in a new light. So I read the Bible without them...the Skeptics Annotated Bible came up as the 1st return onetime when I was search a verse...and the rest is history.

 

P.S. Now I wonder how people do these "read the bible in a year" programs without having a similar experience.

[Mister Pappy]

I wonder how people do these "read the bible in a year" programs without having a similar experience.

More amazing than Captain Marvel no?

[lunaticheathen]

For me, I felt insincere, and then irritated in church- so I started to read the bible. That made it worse.

 

P.S. Now I wonder how people do these "read the bible in a year" programs without having a similar experience.

 

I think many people lack real critical reading skills. This comes in handy for keeping christians in line, even when they get to read the bible, and are fed mutations of the "Sola Scriptura" doctrine. Doesn't pose any problems if you don't really understand what you're reading. Might as well teach by stained glass.

[Mister Pappy]

Doesn't pose any problems if you don't really understand what you're reading. Might as well teach by stained glass.

Excellent point.

[★ Citsonga ★]

I think finding out that Christians can blythly repeat that animals have no soul was one of the things that started me down the de-con path. I can look into the eyes of a canary and see more soul than I do in some humans. And as a Xtian I was LAUGHED AT when I thought I would meet 2 dogs I lost in heaven. Those animals were more loving and devoted to me than any family member. Why would I want to spend a few millenium w/ boring family knowing I could never have a dog or pet? what kind of paradise is that?

 

When I was little I was told that we could have pets in heaven, they just wouldn't be the same pets that we had on earth. So dogs had no soul and ceased to exist at death, but supposedly gawd would provide other dogs in heaven. Of course, the only reason for this separation in their fantasy is to not undermine the doctrine that people are more special than animals.

[YellowJacket]

I think finding out that Christians can blythly repeat that animals have no soul was one of the things that started me down the de-con path. I can look into the eyes of a canary and see more soul than I do in some humans. And as a Xtian I was LAUGHED AT when I thought I would meet 2 dogs I lost in heaven. Those animals were more loving and devoted to me than any family member. Why would I want to spend a few millenium w/ boring family knowing I could never have a dog or pet? what kind of paradise is that?

 

When I was little I was told that we could have pets in heaven, they just wouldn't be the same pets that we had on earth. So dogs had no soul and ceased to exist at death, but supposedly gawd would provide other dogs in heaven. Of course, the only reason for this separation in their fantasy is to not undermine the doctrine that people are more special than animals.

hope they quoted you chapter and verse on that. Seriously, where do Xtians come up w/ all this BS? I can remember arguing that angels don't technically have souls either and yet they are allowed in heaven.

[★ Citsonga ★]

I think finding out that Christians can blythly repeat that animals have no soul was one of the things that started me down the de-con path. I can look into the eyes of a canary and see more soul than I do in some humans. And as a Xtian I was LAUGHED AT when I thought I would meet 2 dogs I lost in heaven. Those animals were more loving and devoted to me than any family member. Why would I want to spend a few millenium w/ boring family knowing I could never have a dog or pet? what kind of paradise is that?

 

When I was little I was told that we could have pets in heaven, they just wouldn't be the same pets that we had on earth. So dogs had no soul and ceased to exist at death, but supposedly gawd would provide other dogs in heaven. Of course, the only reason for this separation in their fantasy is to not undermine the doctrine that people are more special than animals.

hope they quoted you chapter and verse on that. Seriously, where do Xtians come up w/ all this BS? I can remember arguing that angels don't technically have souls either and yet they are allowed in heaven.

 

Good point about the angels.

 

As far as humans having souls but not other animals, christians sometimes point to the creation account where gawd supposedly breathed life into man, but it just says that he created the animals. They say that this breathed life is referring to the soul.

 

I don't think there's any actual "man have soul, animal no have soul" passage, though.

[Deva]

I don't believe it because its dumb.

 

Very plainly the whole cosmology as depicted in the Bible is that of ignorant people living 2,000 years or more ago. The universe as discovered by modern science, along with evolution, disproves the Biblical view conclusively.

 

It is not possible for resurrected Jesus to appear in the clouds and summon us in the rapture. It is not possible that there was actually a Garden of Eden. It is supposed to be based on historical fact. It is so far from it that the distance is light- years away (another concept not found in "God's word").

 

Not a scrap of evidence that would stand up in any court of law today proves the resurrection.

 

Yes, many xians know this --- they choose to believe for emotional reasons. They try to twist and reinterpret it because they like the idea of a God who cares for them personally or is personally with them in some way. The "cosmic Christ" and so on.

 

I say it is factually true or it isn't. There is nothing mythologically compelling enough to be attractive. It is the age-old story of sacrifice, carried over from animal sacrifice. The whole scheme is bogus.

[MultifariousBirdLady]

I thought it would be helpful to one and all if posters here would quickly summarise the main reasons as to why they left Christianity. A snapshot if you like of what you perceive to be the worst and therefore strongest reason (or reasons) as to why you are not a believer anymore.

 

Like a bunch of people here there were a bunch of things that contributed to my deconversion.

 

A lot of what initially bothered me (but didn't cause me to leave the faith) was discomfort over what I was taught about creationism vs. what science said about evolution. I attempted to reconcile the two with verses like "With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day" (2 Pet 3:8) but that did start some initial questioning, and this questioning eventually led me towards a very liberal interpretation of Christianity for a while.

 

Later on, the standard teachings about abortion and homosexuality also really bothered me. A lot of Christian ideology on these topics just seemed plain wrong.

 

What really did it was the ideology about eternal hell. Eventually I had to reject the idea that a truly loving God, a God that was Good and whom I could trust, would send people to hell for disbelief. God didn't seem to care if they had rational reasons* for it, if they had been born into a "wrong" religion, if they had never had the opportunity to learn why Christianity was true. He didn't care if someone had the integrity to believe what honestly appeared true rather than give in to fear and "believe" (or try to believe) in an attempt to be safe after death just in case hell really existed. I tried to weasel these ideas about hell around, too, to soften them, but when my best friend died who was not a believer I was forced to confront it head-on. I concluded that if God really would send people to hell for disbelief, even when people had really valid, good reasons for disbelief, then he was an uncaring petty tyrant asshole of a God that didn't deserve to be worshiped in the first place.

 

I sometimes wonder if it was a mistake to leave while I still believed some of it. The fear and guilt thinking that I had just damned myself was incredibly bad for a long time.

 

(* When I looked into these reasons, they seemed pretty reasonable to me!)

[dB-Paradox]

Ultimately, it was a failed holy spirit experience for me. I received what I knew to be a confirmation, and it didn't happen. This led me to seriously examine all the other holy spirit experiences I had in my life which in the end, led me to understanding that I was making up my own religious experiences and giving the Holy Spirit credit for it. The other major factor which sealed the deal for me was looking at Christianity from another religion's perspective. Christians criticize other faiths, but fail to see what they should really be criticizing.

[Mister Pappy]

Even if I did believe - if God himself showed up in his brand new Mazarati, took me for a drive around the block and convinced me of his omniscience and revealed that he was, in fact, the perverted dude described in the Bible - I would certainly not be compelled to worship, respect, or admire him. Real or imagined, the God of the Bible must be the most sadistic character in the universe. There is nothing about this God, meritorious of the least admiration, let alone praise. It is a fact that human beings who have shared the resemblance of his character have, in most cases, met with the death penalty here on earth. Whether I believe in the God of the Bible or not, isn't much of an issue is it?

 

Now, I know I'm going to hell for that shit - NOT, but I'd much rather be there than in heaven with the God creep - wouldn't you?

[WolfStar13]

No marriage in heaven, The way women are viewed in the bible, Slavery in the bible, The contradictions in the bible, Sacrifices, That this god needs a 'chosen' people, The idea of everlasting punishment, The inquisitions, Predestination, All the many denominations, Don't care to sing (I enjoy Electronic/Trance), etc...