Deva Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 What is it that overcomes? That is the great and huge question - What is "I" that overcomes? What is it that overcomes or molds the mind? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 What is it that overcomes? Organism overcomes. Though organism may not be what we think or envision it to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev R Posted May 12, 2012 Author Share Posted May 12, 2012 What is it that overcomes? Organism overcomes. Though organism may not be what we think or envision it to be. keep trying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 keep trying Behold we have here an oracle! We have here a gatekeeper to the light of truth. We have Rev R. Seriously though Rodnelicious, , I think life will prevail in our universe, in nature. And for me life and organism are inseperable. Organisms manifest life in the cosmos. In the web of relations which comprise causality living beings speak deep truths about the complex or paradoxical pattern of dependent co-arising associated with organism, and thus provide insight into nature itself. In short I submit that if you somehow existed in a parallel reality, and wanted to know what my universe was like, then I would do best to show you a living lotus in bloom rather than a rock. .................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev R Posted May 15, 2012 Author Share Posted May 15, 2012 "Organism" cannot overcome "obstacles" because there is no separation between the two. The organization you refer to as Legion is as much social and environmental pressures as it is biological processes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted May 15, 2012 Share Posted May 15, 2012 "Organism" cannot overcome "obstacles" because there is no separation between the two. The organization you refer to as Legion is as much social and environmental pressures as it is biological processes. I'm feeling a bit dense and apathetic today Rev. I'm not following you here, and I'm not sure that I care. If you attempt clarification, I'll try to pay attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev R Posted May 15, 2012 Author Share Posted May 15, 2012 "Organism" cannot overcome "obstacles" because there is no separation between the two. The organization you refer to as Legion is as much social and environmental pressures as it is biological processes. I'm feeling a bit dense and apathetic today Rev. I'm not following you here, and I'm not sure that I care. If you attempt clarification, I'll try to pay attention. Or you can come back to it later when you feel less so. Or you can continue to not care. Or you can have a sandwich. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryper Posted May 15, 2012 Share Posted May 15, 2012 Or you can come back to it later when you feel less so. Or you can continue to not care. Or you can have a sandwich. how very Zen. Oogway: [walking towards Po] Ah! I see that you have found the Sacred Peach Tree of Heavenly Wisdom! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev R Posted May 15, 2012 Author Share Posted May 15, 2012 I would have went with the sandwich. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 I would have went with the sandwich. In this case it would've been a zen-wich. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryper Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 or depending on you meditation style an ommmm-which. or maybe a yum-which. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 Zenwich... Rod, I'm a bit less apathetic today, so I'll give it another shot. I'm egocentric. I see this very clearly now. I'm egocentric for good reason. I had to navigate the ego of my stepfather while growing up in order to survive. I've also had the chance to study ego itself within the context of biology, under the daughter of one of the preeminent pioneers of biology, Robert Rosen. I suspect organisms require ego, if ego is properly understood. We require models (images) of ourselves in order to function in the world. Surely, a Buddhist can relate to egocentricism. For it is only misaligned ego which keeps us from the dharma. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 Or maybe an ommmmm-elette. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev R Posted May 16, 2012 Author Share Posted May 16, 2012 om-lettes and hum fries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryper Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 You know what they call this in France a So'ham' with cheese. Now to work Bacon in there. Oh wait. Ommmm Baaacon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asanerman Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 What is it that overcomes? the only thing we can do is give it a shot, deva O chestnut tree, great rooted blossomer, Are you the leaf, the blossom or the bole? O body swayed to music, O brightening glance, How can we know the dancer from the dance? ~Yeats Robert Rosenbanm contends that "as embodied minds we come to know ourselves through our actions which reflect our selves back to us." Mindfully engaged in and through our physical liveliness we can let go of our separateness and drop our self-consciousness. When we do this we do not lose ourselves but rather the opposite: We find ourselves in an essential unity. When we leap clear of our concepts into undivided activity, we are free to discover ourselves in a process of constantly adjusting to what is happening this moment. Then we are moving, finding our path not by consulting a map but by reconnoitering the territory. As we do this we 'lay down a path in walking' and become more interested in walking than in formulating theories about how we walk.Experience becomes more important than explanation; action brings forth outcome, brings forth action in a continuous dance. Laying down a path in walking we are always choosing, but without a separate chooser or chosen: the path, path maker, and the path making, all dance with each other. ~from Zen and the Heart of Psychotherapy by Robert Rosenbanm 1999, p 197 Perhaps there is no "it" that overcomes nor is there any overcoming that we do--maybe? What does the leaping, the dancing? There comes a time when explanation must rest? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev R Posted May 21, 2012 Author Share Posted May 21, 2012 Perhaps there is no "it" that overcomes nor is there any overcoming that we do--maybe? What does the leaping, the dancing? There comes a time when explanation must rest? I'd say this was the right track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 This made me shiver in a couple of spots... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RintrahRoars Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 I suspect organisms require ego, if ego is properly understood. We require models (images) of ourselves in order to function in the world. Does a cow have an ego model or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 I suspect organisms require ego, if ego is properly understood. We require models (images) of ourselves in order to function in the world. Does a cow have an ego model or not? I suspect even plants have models of themselves, their environment, and the interactions between them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noggy Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 I suspect organisms require ego, if ego is properly understood. We require models (images) of ourselves in order to function in the world. Does a cow have an ego model or not? Have you ever met a cat? Do you not think animals have egos? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RintrahRoars Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 I suspect even plants have models of themselves, their environment, and the interactions between them. I'm having difficulty trying to think of how a plant would have a way of distinguishing itself from its environment. It most definitely interacts with its environment, but how would 'it' even begin to distinguish between interactions within itself from interactions with its environment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 I suspect even plants have models of themselves, their environment, and the interactions between them. I'm having difficulty trying to think of how a plant would have a way of distinguishing itself from its environment. It most definitely interacts with its environment, but how would 'it' even begin to distinguish between interactions within itself from interactions with its environment? I suspect it would be a Nobel winning piece of research. I can't think of even one organism which does not have , or would not require, defensive mechanisms of some sort or another. We (the living) have immune systems. An effective immune system would require the ability to recognize "self" and be able to distinguish self from "other". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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