Found This On My Facebook This Afternoon!

[Thumbelina]

Personal experiences are a bit more believable.

 

[Thumbelina]"You are speaking emotionally." @ Luv2knit.

 

So? Christians spend most of their time being emotional for God, isn't that what its all about letting god into your heart?

 

Emotions fluctuate, Christians should obey God because His commandments appeal to their reason. I once felt that I was not worthy for God to bother with me but His Word says He loves me so I followed His Word and NOT my emotions.

[Thumbelina]

Thumbelina,

 

I know some Christians help and encourage others, but all too often people who are hurting are met with platitudes or even worse judgment, like suggesting that their suffering is there fault.

 

Are the believers following biblical principles though? A lot of people suffer in this world, whether they believe in God or not. This planet is messed up and believers should try their best to help with suffering.

[ireckinso]

Personal experiences are a bit more believable.

 

[Thumbelina]"You are speaking emotionally." @ Luv2knit.

 

So? Christians spend most of their time being emotional for God, isn't that what its all about letting god into your heart?

 

Emotions fluctuate, Christians should obey God because His commandments appeal to their reason. I once felt that I was not worthy for God to bother with me but His Word says He loves me so I followed His Word and NOT my emotions.

 

I guess that is what they call blind faith. You don't follow what you feel, you don't question your gut feeling that something isn't right, you don't even believe scientific evidence,but you believe what is written in a fallable book. Interesting. I feel sorry for you.

[Thumbelina]

 

That was a long post, man.

 

Religion: Anything that elicits devotion, zeal, dedication etc. The New Webster's Concise Dictionary

 

^

Dawkins is a religious leader and he has a religious following.

 

I am not going to go into a circular discussion about the points you brought up and definitely not here. I am sorry you were taught the erroneous teaching about hell and God being a torturer and it frightened you.

[Thumbelina]

Personal experiences are a bit more believable.

 

[Thumbelina]"You are speaking emotionally." @ Luv2knit.

 

So? Christians spend most of their time being emotional for God, isn't that what its all about letting god into your heart?

 

Emotions fluctuate, Christians should obey God because His commandments appeal to their reason. I once felt that I was not worthy for God to bother with me but His Word says He loves me so I followed His Word and NOT my emotions.

 

I guess that is what they call blind faith. You don't follow what you feel, you don't question your gut feeling that something isn't right, you don't even believe scientific evidence,but you believe what is written in a fallable book. Interesting. I feel sorry for you.

 

Try piloting a plane and having it go into the clouds or a fog where you can't see. Are you going to follow your gut feeling that say the plane is rightside up when it is not or are you going to follow your instruments that says it is upside down and needs to be set straight?

[Prestissimo]

I am not going to go into a circular discussion about the points you brought up and definitely not here. I am sorry you were taught the erroneous teaching about hell and God being a torturer and it frightened you.

 

Sorry I overestimated your intellect.

 

Try piloting a plane and having it go into the clouds or a fog where you can't see. Are you going to follow your gut feeling that say the plane is rightside up when it is not or are you going to follow your instruments that says it is upside down and needs to be set straight?

 

Yes, we trust the evidence the instruments show us over the holy-spirit voice in our head if it tells us otherwise.

[ireckinso]

Well I definatly wouldn't start reading the bible to tell me which direction I was flying!

[Positivist]

If "anything" is in accordance with God's will then God will grant it.

This is patently untrue.

 

There are three ways to pray:

1. Pray for what you want (Jesus said, after all, whatever you ask in his name will be given). This does not work.

2. Pray for what is God's will. In other words, pray for what is going to happen anyway. (After all, when our prayers are not answered, don't we say, "It wasn't God's will"?) Then why pray, except to throw yourself under the wheels of God's bus?

3. Just pray, sending spiritual flares to heaven (worship only). (I guess this is more of an attitude, not an ask.)

 

I have prayed for many years for things that are God's will (you'll just have to trust me on this) and God has not met me. It actually gets worse. Prayer does nothing. Say I've prayed 3,000 times for this one thing that is God's will, and nothing happens except a worsening 'condition'. Would this not exhaust you?

 

So, prayer type #2: Fail.

 

Prayer type #3? I used to be this kind of Christian. I would just worship for hours each day on my face before God. I never asked for anything except his presence. I never asked for anything becuase all I wanted was to worship him. You would think, after all those years any my not too bad attitude (expecting nothing from God) he'd think to himself, "Geez, Positivist hasn't asked for anything--she just worships me!--and now look, she's up shit creek and can't come to my house of worship, for which she longs. I love her and want to help her."

 

But no. The answer is interminable silence that can, after all these years of suffering, only be interpreted as absence. Make no mistake--I suffer, but at least now I know that God is not putting the screws to me. It's so much easier now.

 

God was not, is not, there. Prayer is an epic fail!

[Astreja]

...You do not take the bible as the word of God so you won't be able to understand certain concepts, it will be foolishness to you.

 

Thumbelina, do you have any evidence that belief actually does provide better insight into a scripture? It would seem to Me that it's an insurmountable obstacle to honest analysis if one goes in with the supposition that a scripture is automatically true because a god inspired it.

I did not say you were satanists, I said following Satan is a default position from not following God that people get caught up in and it's a situation they are not aware of.

 

Until and unless you prove "Satan" is real we are going to take your words as slander, superstition and delusion, and respond accordingly. If you want to have a genuine dialogue with us, knock it off.

[Prestissimo]

@positivist

I totally agree with the prayer bullshit. Yet, if used differently it can provide something good.

 

I see it as a form of meditation. Talking to yourself, in silence, just in your head. I find it a very relaxing way to structure my thoughts. You can ask yourself questions this way and you can answer your own questions. Actually the mind is very quickly in coming up with responses; almost as if you're talking to somebody else.

Some people call that

the holy spirit:

 

 

In the end it doesn't matter if it's real or not, self, the entangled conscience, it's just a way to deal with your thoughts. In my experience a great way to start your day or fall asleep.

[Vigile]

You are speaking emotionally. Anyone who does not want to read what Christians write is able to ignore them.

 

You're responding without empathy, love or forebearance. Do you idiots even take your own book seriously or is obnoxious some higher fruit of the spirit that we can't see because the holy spook isn't helping us read between the lines?

 

People here don't enjoy chatting it up with you guys, they just like using you as a punching bag to hone their debate skills or release pent up anger they can't release on other obnoxious xians in their own lives. I think you get that, which makes me wonder if you are a masichist of sorts.

[Luv2knit]

You are speaking emotionally. Anyone who does not want to read what Christians write is able to ignore them.

 

You're responding without empathy, love or forebearance. Do you idiots even take your own book seriously or is obnoxious some higher fruit of the spirit that we can't see because the holy spook isn't helping us read between the lines?

 

People here don't enjoy chatting it up with you guys, they just like using you as a punching bag to hone their debate skills or release pent up anger they can't release on other obnoxious xians in their own lives. I think you get that, which makes me wonder if you are a masichist of sorts.

 

Thank you!

[Positivist]

@positivist

I totally agree with the prayer bullshit. Yet, if used differently it can provide something good.

 

I see it as a form of meditation. Talking to yourself, in silence, just in your head. I find it a very relaxing way to structure my thoughts. You can ask yourself questions this way and you can answer your own questions. Actually the mind is very quickly in coming up with responses; almost as if you're talking to somebody else.

Some people call that

the holy spirit:

 

 

In the end it doesn't matter if it's real or not, self, the entangled conscience, it's just a way to deal with your thoughts. In my experience a great way to start your day or fall asleep.

Thanks, Prestissimo!

 

I agree. I now see, through neuroscience, that prayer and meditation both have similar effects on the brain--causing a peaceful sensation. I still pray sometimes--I guess I still sometimes hope that God exists, and it is quite a habit to break after all those years--but there is not even a dial tone.

 

Anyhow, one day I may be ready to try physiological meditation. I don't think I could do a spiritual type meditation.

 

About Thumbelina--I have never interacted with her before and I thought she might be different from the rest. Oh well!

 

Thanks Prestissimo!

[★ Citsonga ★]

Cits, you're somewhat mad at me?

 

Haha. No, I'm not mad at you. I actually feel sorry for you. Being brainwashed with nonsense is a sad condition.

 

I gave you answers based on what the bible says, you do not take the bible as the word of God so you won't be able to understand certain concepts, it will be foolishness to you.

 

Don't forget that for decades I did "take the Bible as the word of God," so I DO understand the concepts. The difference between us is that I have grown in my understanding and realize that it's mythology, while you are still delusional.

 

Anyway, true or false questions must be answered as "true" or "false." Further elaboration can be accepted, but if there is no "true" or "false" given, then the questions have NOT been answered; they've merely been dodged.

 

If you want to make amends in this thread, then answer the questions I posed in this thread. Here they are again:

 

Regarding praying for others,

(1) Are you informing God of something that he did not know about the person?

(2) Are you persuading God to help someone he otherwise would not have wanted to help?

(3) Are you giving God power to help someone he otherwise could not help?

 

These are yes or no questions, Thumby, so you *must* answer them with either "yes" or "no," or else you have NOT answered them. Got it?

 

I don't mean you are a murderer, I meant that you put your own reasoning above what the [edit] Word of God says, Cain did that too. In my analogy I was talking about your attitude and not your deeds.

 

I do not put my own reasoning above a word of god. The Bible is NOT the word of God. Your comment is just as silly as a Muslim saying that you put your own reasoning above the word of God because you don't believe the Quran.

 

Beyond that, the only "attitude" I have is that I care about truth. When I believed that Christianity was truth, I followed it (thinking I was following God). Now that I realize that it is not truth, I cannot follow it. Saying that I have copped some "attitude" is a false accusation, Thumby. Do you really think that a holy, righteous God would be pleased with you making false accusations?

 

Maybe you're not listening to God at this time, Cits. and your # 4 reason shows that

 

It's impossible to listen to a God who is not speaking. If a deity exists and wants to communicate with me, then I am completely open to it.

 

Happy belated New Year to you, Cits.

 

Same to you.

 

I did not say you were satanists, I said following Satan is a default position from not following God that people get caught up in and it's a situation they are not aware of.

 

OK, I was thinking of this:

 

Yeah, there are fake Satanists who are really Satanists by default because they are not actively following God and there are the real Satanists, some of whom sacrifice humans.

 

Looking back at it, I see that you were apparently referring specifically to those who pretend to be Satanists. I apologize for that misunderstanding.

 

Regardless, though, we nonbelievers are not following Satan any more than you're following the Boogie Man.

 

[EDIT: Of course, the statement does carry an implication that all who "are not actively following God" are "really Satanists," in which case you would be calling all of us nonbelievers "Satanists." So, was that a misstatement on your part, or were you lying when you said that you didn't call us "Satanists"?]

 

Please understand that I believe the bible and I do see the devil as wanting to destroy you and I do not want that.

 

Oh, I fully understand that you believe the Bible and that you visualize things based on it. People of ALL religions visualize things through the teachings of their religions. That does not make those (including your) religions and visualizations true.

[★ Citsonga ★]

[Thumbelina] "The bible said that there will be false teachings out there so Christians will be able to detect the cakes with turd pieces mixed in and avoid them and they will see the pure chocolate cake and eat that instead."

 

Word of advice, never answer a question with the starting phrase, "The bible said, or the bible says." We do not believe the bible to be worth anymore than a comic book. Its fiction to us, so quoting it is like quoting beavus and butthead. When you say, "I heard of this person," or "someone told me," then you again are not answering anything with your personal experience or what you believe. You are just side shifting by using third party BS.

 

I know you don't believe the bible but unbelievers tend to love misquoting it. The ex Christians were using bible quotes to me. Unbelievers do what you accuse believers of doing, it's just a different type of religion. Unbelievers argue against Christianity based on their personal experiences and anecdotes so why should believers believe that? <-- *rhetorical question* based on logic, I know some people were hurt. I am not going to argue here, OK.

 

Don't paint with such a broad brush, Thumby. While I can't say that there aren't some "unbelievers" who "love misquoting" the Bible, most of us nonbelievers do NOT fall into that category. If I was shown that I misquoted the Bible, I would apologize and retract the statement.

 

The irony here is that believers do often take things in the Bible completely out of context. Even NT authors took OT texts out of context. It's quite laughable to us for Christians to claim that we abuse things in the Bible when Christians (and even the Bible) do exactly that!

 

My arguments against Christianity are NOT based on "personal experiences and anecdotes," but rather logic and reason. You, on the other hand, have demonstrated that you lack the ability to use logic and reason, and simply resort to regurgitating thoughtless religious dogma that most of us are already quite familiar with and have seen through.

[Luv2knit]

Not to mention we are not "non believers", we are Ex Christians. In my mind a HUGE difference!

[★ Citsonga ★]

...You do not take the bible as the word of God so you won't be able to understand certain concepts, it will be foolishness to you.

 

Thumbelina, do you have any evidence that belief actually does provide better insight into a scripture? It would seem to Me that it's an insurmountable obstacle to honest analysis if one goes in with the supposition that a scripture is automatically true because a god inspired it.

 

If belief brought understanding, then all believers would have the same understanding. With countless denominations of Christians, the evidence obviously indicates otherwise. People like Thumby don't care about evidence, though; they just care about twisting things to try to get them to fit their preconceived notions.

[★ Citsonga ★]

Not to mention we are not "non believers", we are Ex Christians. In my mind a HUGE difference!

 

Excellent point. I wouldn't say that we're not nonbelievers, though, but it is true that we are more than just nonbelievers. We are ex-believers, many of us having been very passionate about Christianity (God/Christ) in our believing years. It's not like we're just on the outside looking in and wondering what's going on; we have been on the inside for a long time and know quite well what's going on.

[Luv2knit]

Yes! Ex-believers.

[midniterider]

 

When people call out to God He hears and answers maybe not in the way some will expect.

 

Roll a dice. You will get one of six different outcomes.

[midniterider]

Can someone who is eating a piece of delicious chocolate cake cause another person who is not eating the cake experience it without the other person taking a piece of it for themselves and eating it?

 

They can describe it and compare it to other flavors and if they do a good job, I would try it. But then what if it turns out to be half chocolate and half shit, but the original taster hasn't yet realized there is shit it in because of perhaps a taste bud problem? Or is maybe so used to the taste that it doesn't bother them anymore?

 

The bible said that there will be false teachings out there so Christians will be able to detect the cakes with turd pieces mixed in and avoid them and they will see the pure chocolate cake and eat that instead.

 

Christians are fed BS (bible study) all the time yet they are unable to detect it.

[★ Citsonga ★]

When people call out to God He hears and answers maybe not in the way some will expect.

 

Roll a dice. You will get one of six different outcomes.

 

At least you know that dice are real.

[midniterider]

Try piloting a plane and having it go into the clouds or a fog where you can't see. Are you going to follow your gut feeling that say the plane is rightside up when it is not or are you going to follow your instruments that says it is upside down and needs to be set straight?

 

Airplane navigation systems actually exist and give you information. Christians and non-Christians can both use airplane navigation systems. And the information is always the same no matter what your denomination. If an instrument says the plane is 45 miles from the airport, then whether your pilot is a Christian, Muslim, Pagan, Atheist or Scientologist, he will know the plane is 45 miles from the airport.

[mymistake]

Not to mention we are not "non believers", we are Ex Christians. In my mind a HUGE difference!

 

Excellent point. I wouldn't say that we're not nonbelievers, though, but it is true that we are more than just nonbelievers. We are ex-believers, many of us having been very passionate about Christianity (God/Christ) in our believing years. It's not like we're just on the outside looking in and wondering what's going on; we have been on the inside for a long time and know quite well what's going on.

 

Christians are biased. They think their religion is so important that Christian belief is THE belief. It turns out that non-Christians are a diverse group and individuals have a wide range of beliefs.

[Thumbelina]

You are speaking emotionally. Anyone who does not want to read what Christians write is able to ignore them.

 

You're responding without empathy, love or forebearance. Do you idiots even take your own book seriously or is obnoxious some higher fruit of the spirit that we can't see because the holy spook isn't helping us read between the lines?

 

People here don't enjoy chatting it up with you guys, they just like using you as a punching bag to hone their debate skills or release pent up anger they can't release on other obnoxious xians in their own lives. I think you get that, which makes me wonder if you are a masichist of sorts.

 

Thank you!

 

 

 

 

Luv2knit, I am sorry if you saw my post as attacking you. It's sometimes hard to communicate efficiently when not face to face and when you don't know someone. What I meant was that you are allowing what other people do affect your emotions but emotions are not facts. When we allow our negative feelings to dictate how we behave and react to others it can adversely affect our health and happiness and this is NOT beneficial to you (I am so talking to myself too, I am learning these things). In your life you WILL be encountering religious people and some of them will want to save your soul. Religious people have no right to infringe on your personal space or they are not supposed to legislate their religion. However we are afforded freedom of speech and we all encounter beliefs we do not like or agree with. I've seen atheists being so utterly sacrilegious to believers on the net and I've seen Muslims cuss at and threaten them but when they do that to Christian beliefs, Christians believe that atheists are free to not worship their God and they are free to express themselves and God will deal with it in His time. As long as people are not beating each other over the head and forcing each other to believe as they do then maybe they can be tolerant with one another? Some atheists and Christians can actually bandy words and be cool with each other. Also, please consider that believers may care for your good. Before I became Christian some Catholics would say " God bless you Mammy" and it did not bother me. I was annoyed with some other pushy Christians but in hindsight I am glad they bothered me.

You said you did not mind me posting in your thread so I do see you do try to be tolerant to Christians

 

Again, I'm sorry I came in here and bothered you, I saw Cits' post and was like " Oooooo Cit-son-ga!" and I wanted to tease him a little so you can blame him lol (Cits, if you read this, it was a JOKE ). There are other people around here that do not like bible quotes also so I just say hi to them, if you don't mind I may just say an ocassional hi to you?

 

Sorry again.