Believeing Christian myths

[Wertbag]

I know many of you were Christians earlier in your life, so perhaps you can answer a common question: why don't Christians question the unbelieveable stories?

 

If someone said to you "My Dad lived 900 years, use to call fire from the sky to start the BBQ and had conversations with the dog" you'd think they were insane. You wouldn't believe a word of what they were saying because it makes no logical sense to. Yet for some reason Christians are incapibable of looking at their own beliefs in this light. Christians seem to have no problem pointing out the myths of other religions, but can't turn the microscope on themselves.

 

I went to Sunday school when I was young, but I was always left thinking "this doesn't make sense", until finally I just had to say "what a load of bollocks, I'm becoming an atheist". My parents are agnostic due to apathy more than anything, but they see the ridiculous claims of the Bible as simple myths.

 

Healing by touch, walking on water, rising from the dead, talking to a burning bush/flaming column/smoke, talking to animals, fire from the sky, asending through the clouds (why? we know theres nothing up there), global flood, the whole population from 2 people, a 6000 year old earth, dinosaurs living with people, tower of babel... the list goes on and on.

[Guest Challenger]

For some people it's easier to just believe what someone in authority (a parent, guardian, minister, etc.) tells them, rather than invest the time and energy in the needed skull sweat to determine for themselves.

[Merlinfmct87]

I'd love to have an answer to this question - from believer and apostate alike. When I come across bible stories it boggles the mind how anyone could say it's true.

 

Merlin

[Hero of Hyrule]

There's actually 'science' behind the idea of being 900 years old. Creationist 'science' of course wich states that everything gets worse over time.

First they believe, then they question, they read christian sources, remember everything else is satanic, and find an answer.

 

God said it, I believe it!

[Guest Challenger]

(hero of Hyrule)

God said it, I believe it!

 

. . .well, that should settle it then, right?

 

[Merlinfmct87]

There's actually 'science' behind the idea of being 900 years old. Creationist 'science' of course wich states that everything gets worse over time.

First they believe, then they question, they read christian sources, remember everything else is satanic, and find an answer.

 

God said it, I believe it!

 

Nevermind that lifespans have been increacing over time.

 

Oh, right. Satanic Medicine. Silly me.

 

The sad part is, HoH's point here is actually true... it's not satire.

 

Scary thought.

 

Merlin

[Ouroboros]

I know many of you were Christians earlier in your life, so perhaps you can answer a common question: why don't Christians question the unbelieveable stories?

 

Several reasons, I think. First of all I think that the human psyche is a dreaming machine, that believe things easily. You can see it in mob situations, or stock market, or hypes about X-Box 360 or urban legends, humans want to believe and maybe somehow can't help it. Of some reason, through evolution, a brain that could believe things had a better survival.

 

And the second reason is the circular reinforcement of believing lies against better judgment, and suspending belief, that you have in religion. You start with a simple belief: "I believe there is a God of some kind", and then you start building a house of idea on top of it, like "God is good", or "Good is eternal", and then you get into the people that tell you who and what God is and what God has supposedly done in history, and you slowly build up a construct of ideas that you accept and make "reasons" for in you head. It's like a drug that you get used to, and you need a stronger dose each time to get the high. But in this case is a stronger doses of myths to build a fancier and more elaborate faith.

[Vigile]

1. Fear of hell

2. Youthful indoctrination

3. Beliefs are never questioned on a truly profound level

4. I believe, because... ...well, I just believe

5. How could such an awesome world just be?

6. There must be a purpose to life, there just must...

7. Psychology of guilt that is wraught on church goers with precision each week

8. Us vs them mentality that doesn't allow for scrutiny of personally held beliefs

9. Legitimate questions are really just lies of satan who is the wolf searching to destroy your faith

 

Anyone got any more?

 

A few more...

 

10. Low IQ

11. Questioning xtianity amounts to questioning your patriotism

12. General lack of personal depth

13. Emotionalism

[Checkmate]

I know many of you were Christians earlier in your life, so perhaps you can answer a common question: why don't Christians question the unbelieveable stories?

.................

Actually, Christians DO question these unbelievable stories. Only, it's in their best interest to deliberately set aside their unbelief and keep quiet.

 

Read 1 Corinthians 1:18-2:16 and Hebrews 11. Then add an unhealthy dose of compartmentalization and you've got yourself a ready made lobotomized believer.

 

Why do people believe the Christian myths? Peer pressure. It’s the Emperor’s New Clothes all over again. No one wants to be the one to admit that they aren’t “spiritual enough” to see what “God” is doing.

 

So rather than risk being the “loser”, who hasn’t been “blessed by God”, everyone plays along with the gag and says, “Hey! I see it too! I’m no deceived child of Satan.”

 

It's not that Christians believe the stories. It's more like Faith is a badge of honor. The ability to believe the ridiculous, by suspending rational thought, is viewed as a virtue. Proof positive that you are part of the "In Crowd," beloved and acceptable to "God". To question or doubt is tantamount to exposing yourself for ridicule and rejection. For many people this is a horrid fate.

 

Only those with the guts enough to suffer rejection from the group are bold enough to speak the truth of their unbelief.

[Merlinfmct87]

I'd love to have an answer to this question - from believer and apostate alike. When I come across bible stories it boggles the mind how anyone could say it's true.

 

Merlin

 

Being you weren't indoctrinated in at a young age and told that it was true, I can certainly see why I baffle myself and am going to try looking at the bible in a different light. It' s not right I argue a side that I know nothing about.

 

True enough. I dodged the bullet - I fully realize that.

[Guest Challenger]

(Hero of Hyrule)

First they believe, then they question, they read christian sources, remember everything else is satanic, and find an answer.

 

It seems that they draw conclusions, and then decide what evidence to use to support those conclusions.

 

(Merlinfmct87)

True enough. I dodged the bullet - I fully realize that.

 

Good reflexes!

[Thurisaz]

I know many of you were Christians earlier in your life, so perhaps you can answer a common question: why don't Christians question the unbelieveable stories?

 

Okay, okay, so I'm one of those German snobs...

 

...but anyway: What I believed of the bible back then I didn't question because it was all "sanitized". I was ready to believe that Jesus was a remarkably ethical person (for those bygone times anyway) et cetera, but I never even considered that, say, Genesis could be a factual account of the origins of "life, the universe, and everything"... or any of the rest of nonsense in that book.

[Amethyst]

I know many of you were Christians earlier in your life, so perhaps you can answer a common question: why don't Christians question the unbelieveable stories?

 

I think many of them do question it, but not until they reach at least adolescence. And many of them never admit to anyone else that they have questioned the mythology because they're afraid how people might react.

[txviper]

Of course, you have to consider what one has to accept in place of Biblical Christianity. Everyone believes in something, even if it amounts to the belief that nothing is believable.

 

The Bible does indeed present stories where the laws of nature are breached. That might be hard for some to accept. However, the scientific alternative, in my mind, is much more difficult to digest.

 

Evolutionary theory would have you believe that all life forms on this planet came about through wholly accidental, random events. The ultimate thought is that all life forms came from rocks and some undefined/undiscovered/undemonstratable stimulus.

 

This really gets interesting is when you have to accept that jellyfish, blackberries, fruit bats, blue whales, e-coli bacteria, carrots, prairie dogs, crickets, chickens and you, all have a common ancestor.

[Amethyst]

Oh, yes, the "I must believe that I am sooooooo much more spechul than all the rest of you!111!! because I am such a Marty Stu and cannot believe that I came from the same ancestor as everyone else" Christian. Right.

 

 

When are you people going to realize that religion is all just a fricking myth? Just because you WANT to believe something does NOT make it true.

 

[I Broke Free]

 

This really gets interesting is when you have to accept that jellyfish, blackberries, fruit bats, blue whales, e-coli bacteria, carrots, prairie dogs, crickets, chickens and you, all have a common ancestor.

 

 

Believing that blueberries and I have a common ancestor is easy for me to accept than believing Christians and I do.

[Vigile]

However, the scientific alternative, in my mind, is much more difficult to digest

 

Ignorance is a really poor defense don't you think?

 

 

Uh, god said it, I believe it.

 

or...

 

Empirical evidence, what does it tell us?

 

hmm.... tough choice, but I'll go with evidence.

 

BTW, evolution either accepted or rejected is not the opposite of theism. I understand that's difficult for you guys to grasp in your state of self-assured righteousness.

[NotBlinded]

Of course, you have to consider what one has to accept in place of Biblical Christianity. Everyone believes in something, even if it amounts to the belief that nothing is believable.

 

The Bible does indeed present stories where the laws of nature are breached. That might be hard for some to accept. However, the scientific alternative, in my mind, is much more difficult to digest.

 

Evolutionary theory would have you believe that all life forms on this planet came about through wholly accidental, random events. The ultimate thought is that all life forms came from rocks and some undefined/undiscovered/undemonstratable stimulus.

 

This really gets interesting is when you have to accept that jellyfish, blackberries, fruit bats, blue whales, e-coli bacteria, carrots, prairie dogs, crickets, chickens and you, all have a common ancestor.

Chrisitianity doesn't have to be replaced to be believed, it only has to be understood as it was, not as it is now. There is great insight to be had in the pages of the bible along with every other religion/philosophy.

 

When you say undefined/undiscovered/undemonstratable are you referring to God? To me, that's a pretty good description. Evolution is even referred to in Genesis when god chooses to create over a period of 7 days. If this doesn't refer to evolution, then why didn't this "Being" just create it all in one breath? Look around, we are evolving.

[Amethyst]

If there's no evolution, then why do viruses change? Why is there all the bird flu hype? The hype is that the virus will evolve (yes, there's that oh-so-evil word again) into a form that can spread easier among humans and kill lots of people, even young and healthy people. You only have to look as far as the common virus, even just the regular influenza virus that they make flu shots for every year, because it evolves. It does not stay the same.

 

If there is no such thing as evolution, then why in the bloody hell are all the doctors and scientists trying to find a way to stop the bird flu before it evolves into a more dangerous form? Logically in that case, viruses such as influenza should then remain the same, and our flu shots should be good for the rest of our lives.

 

I would love to hear your explanation, but I'm sure it's going to be just another "it's god's will to punish all humans for questioning him" sort of tripe.

[Checkmate]

Of course, you have to consider what one has to accept in place of Biblical Christianity. Everyone believes in something, even if it amounts to the belief that nothing is believable.

 

The Bible does indeed present stories where the laws of nature are breached. That might be hard for some to accept. However, the scientific alternative, in my mind, is much more difficult to digest.

Typical "black and white" mentality. Why MUST anyone have to accept anything in place of Christianity? Why MUST anyone be forced to "fill in the gaps" with one theory or another? Once I've disproven "Goddidit", why MUST I hang my hat on something else? What's wrong with a little mystery?

Evolutionary theory would have you believe that all life forms on this planet came about through wholly accidental, random events. The ultimate thought is that all life forms came from rocks and some undefined/undiscovered/undemonstratable stimulus.

I'm no expert on what Evolutionary theory teaches, but I'm certain that your simplistic explanation is wrong. In fact, it sounds as if you're confusing Evolution with Big Bang theory. No one says Evolution is random or accidental.

 

Besides which, why MUST life be an "accident" just because you've removed "God" from the spurious equation? Why cannot the universe be predisposed to create Life? We live in an infinite universe, with eternity for a measure. Who is to say that this universe can NOT create Life, in one form or another, after a period of "time"? Who knows what existed "a long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away"?

 

This really gets interesting is when you have to accept that jellyfish, blackberries, fruit bats, blue whales, e-coli bacteria, carrots, prairie dogs, crickets, chickens and you, all have a common ancestor.

Once again, who says that anyone "has to accept" this theorum you purport? I don't accept any such thing. Nor do I accept that I share any common ancestry with an ape. This is just typical sophistry spouted by silly strawmen making people.

[Ouroboros]

Of course, you have to consider what one has to accept in place of Biblical Christianity. Everyone believes in something, even if it amounts to the belief that nothing is believable.

 

The Bible does indeed present stories where the laws of nature are breached. That might be hard for some to accept. However, the scientific alternative, in my mind, is much more difficult to digest.

 

Evolutionary theory would have you believe that all life forms on this planet came about through wholly accidental, random events. The ultimate thought is that all life forms came from rocks and some undefined/undiscovered/undemonstratable stimulus.

 

This really gets interesting is when you have to accept that jellyfish, blackberries, fruit bats, blue whales, e-coli bacteria, carrots, prairie dogs, crickets, chickens and you, all have a common ancestor.

 

Interesting dichotomy you live in, since you believe all races, eye colors, hair colors and all different unique alleles came from Adam and Eve, one common ancestor. Actually you have to believe in mutations too. Sorry, but you have to.

 

What about your God as the common ancestor, don't you believe in that? You believe God is the source of everything, and not only that, but you believe God created humans from dirt!

 

You're the one that believe that Noah were able to squeeze in two of each 1440 or more different species of iguanas in a boat! Or do you subscribe to the idea that it was only a pair of each kind? Just two iguanas? Which means they must have evolved since Noah!!!

[MQTA]

I'd love to have an answer to this question - from believer and apostate alike. When I come across bible stories it boggles the mind how anyone could say it's true.

 

Merlin

how about being tag-team insulted for having the audacity to not believe it, too?

[txviper]

Mr. Grinch,

 

"I'm no expert on what Evolutionary theory teaches, but I'm certain that your simplistic explanation is wrong"

 

No, my explanation is accurate. It's just that when you see evolution in stark, summarized terms, you recognise that something is missing or incorrect.

 

 

"why MUST life be an "accident" just because you've removed "God" from the spurious equation? Why cannot the universe be predisposed to create Life? We live in an infinite universe, with eternity for a measure. Who is to say that this universe can NOT create Life, in one form or another, after a period of "time"?"

 

Like I already said, everyone believes in something.

 

 

"No one says Evolution is random or accidental"

 

You are uninformed about this.

[txviper]

Hans,

 

"you believe all races, eye colors, hair colors and all different unique alleles came from Adam and Eve, one common ancestor. Actually you have to believe in mutations too"

 

Absolutely. The difference is that I accept mutations for what they actually do. They are copy errors in DNA replication. I believe that the bulk of the info in the genome, "junk DNA" as it is called, was once viable.

 

 

"What about your God as the common ancestor, don't you believe in that?"

 

Yes, but I don't think it would be in terms that you would immediately understand.

 

 

"You believe God is the source of everything, and not only that, but you believe God created humans from dirt!"

 

Affirmative. You on the other hand, believe in the same thing, only with no intellect involved whatever. Your belief substitutes random error and chance for purpose and intent. I notice that it is often difficult for evolutionists to stay pure about this. I can illustrate what I mean if you are interested.

 

 

"You're the one that believe that Noah were able to squeeze in two of each 1440 or more different species of iguanas in a boat! Or do you subscribe to the idea that it was only a pair of each kind? Just two iguanas? Which means they must have evolved since Noah!!!"

 

Again, this goes to the heart of the debate and requires mention of the distinction between micro and macro evolution. Creationists accept the micro as we believe that original kinds were gushing with coded information. Speciation, I believe, happens as the instructions in DNA are deleted or rendered inactive. Micro-evolution is still about iguanas unspiraling into other iguanas, not primitive birds.

 

Evolution, on the other hand, has to count on mutations, and nothing else, to account for upward development and macro-evolution whereby fish mutated into amphibs, etc.

 

The destructive effects of mutations are easily documentable and observable as is non-functioning DNA material. Our theory, or belief if you choose to characterize it as such, accomodates the evidence. Yours does not. You have nothing in the way of examples of new genetic information being generated.

[Saviourmachine]

There are enough discussions about mutations and evolution around here in this Science part of the forum. And with open ends too, so you can continue overthere.

 

I just believed the biblical stories, not because I was some kind of fool, but because I believed that God could manage such things. Hell, we even don't know what kind of physical laws are violated when someone walks over water. Is it only Newton, or also Einstein, or do we have to redesign the whole universe if we could do such things? Consider such a miracle as changing some code in a computer application. Most often a change iterates through whole the application and refactoring is necessary.

That's also the case when someone says e.g. that its impossible to stop the world from turning, because it would burn down. Then you're not considering that a miracle penetrates most probably through all that is real to us. Believing in God and not believing that he can manage to make some changes in the program at runtime seems really weird.

 

Were any of you christian and not believing in miracles at all?