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The Legacy


Fly

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I realize most Christians believe that w/o the death and resurrection of Jesus, Christianity would be a useless religion. I disagree, though. I think that love was (is) the bread and butter of Jesus' entire legacy. The concepts of eternal life, and a heavenly realm after death exist only to satisfy the wants, and needs of those unable to accept the truth. Warm fuzzies are prefered over rational, and realistic thought. (Death comes to all) True eternal life rests in the continuation of the human race. (This is the way I see it, anyway.)

 

I have a great respect for Jesus. He was all about life, and love, man! I honestly think that love is the only force powerful enough to conquer evil, and Jesus was on the front lines promoting this powerful force.

 

His commandments were simple:

 

1) Love God.

 

2) Love man.

 

The message? "Learn how to love" (It might save the world)

 

I don't consider myself to be Christian nowdays, but I have faith in what I believe Jesus' message to be.

 

Love saves! (I'm such a hippie)

 

Jesus was merely a messenger.

 

My question is this: Do my views on Jesus make me a Christian? I believe he (Jesus) was touched (Maybe even sent) by God, but I also believe that God (My concept of God) is love . . .

 

Yes, I believe in God! I just can't prove he exists. ;)

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I honestly think that love is the only force powerful enough to conquer evil, .....

But, what if one loves to do evil? :twitch:

 

 

His commandments were simple:

 

1) Love God.

 

2) Love man.

I can see that you haven't read a bible.

That's okay though, not too many people do.

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Fly,

 

Maybe you could classify yourself a Christian if you consider really liberal Christianity.

 

Your statement about God and love are more Eastern thought, without the Jesus injected in them.

 

There isn't any historical proof that Jesus existed. Though, he is more than likely a collective of many different people who were running around the Ancient Mediteranian world preaching to the masses. It was a melting pot of Messiah's back then.

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I realize most Christians believe that w/o the death and resurrection of Jesus, Christianity would be a useless religion. I disagree, though. I think that love was (is) the bread and butter of Jesus' entire legacy. The concepts of eternal life, and a heavenly realm after death exist only to satisfy the wants, and needs of those unable to accept the truth. Warm fuzzies are prefered over rational, and realistic thought. (Death comes to all) True eternal life rests in the continuation of the human race. (This is the way I see it, anyway.)

 

I have a great respect for Jesus. He was all about life, and love, man! I honestly think that love is the only force powerful enough to conquer evil, and Jesus was on the front lines promoting this powerful force.

 

His commandments were simple:

 

1) Love God.

 

2) Love man.

 

The message? "Learn how to love" (It might save the world)

 

I don't consider myself to be Christian nowdays, but I have faith in what I believe Jesus' message to be.

 

Love saves! (I'm such a hippie)

 

Jesus was merely a messenger.

 

My question is this: Do my views on Jesus make me a Christian? I believe he (Jesus) was touched (Maybe even sent) by God, but I also believe that God (My concept of God) is love . . .

 

Yes, I believe in God! I just can't prove he exists. ;)

 

 

One problem: Jesus never wrote anything down. So how exactly do you know what his "message" was?

 

It might have been something more like "eat cheetos with milk". :shrug:

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I honestly think that love is the only force powerful enough to conquer evil, .....

But, what if one loves to do evil? :twitch:

 

>>I think loving to do 'something' is quite different than love itself. Think about it<<

 

His commandments were simple:

 

1) Love God.

 

2) Love man.

I can see that you haven't read a bible.

That's okay though, not too many people do.

 

Wah? Are you serious?

 

I'll share what I'm talking about here:

 

Mattew 22:36-40

 

36. Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

37. Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

38. This is the first and great commandment.

39. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

40. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

 

Jesus was all about the love, Fweethawt. This is what I get out of the writ, anyway. All you have to do is read the new testament, and you'll see it. (If you look)

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I honestly think that love is the only force powerful enough to conquer evil, .....

But, what if one loves to do evil? :twitch:

 

>>I think loving to do 'something' is quite different than love itself. Think about it<<

 

His commandments were simple:

 

1) Love God.

 

2) Love man.

I can see that you haven't read a bible.

That's okay though, not too many people do.

 

Wah? Are you serious?

 

I'll share what I'm talking about here:

 

Mattew 22:36-40

 

36. Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

37. Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

38. This is the first and great commandment.

39. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

40. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

 

Jesus was all about the love, Fweethawt. This is what I get out of the writ, anyway. All you have to do is read the new testament, and you'll see it. (If you look)

 

 

When a poor distressed woman came to Jesus begging for help he refused to help her simply because she was not Jewish. Teaching the Gospel to Canaanites was, he said, like taking food from children and throwing it to dogs. (Matt 15:22-26) It was only after strong urging from his disciples that Jesus finally decided to help the woman. So much for loving one's neighbour.

 

Jesus said that we should not judge others and claimed that he himself judged no one. But despite this he was constantly judging and condemning others (IE: Matt 23:13-16)

 

 

"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace on the earth. I did not come to bring peace but the sword. I have come to turn a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law, a man's enemies will be the members of his own household (Matt 10:34-36)."

 

Ahhhhhhhh yes...can you feel the love?

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Hi Fly, welcome to the site.

 

As you can see you probably aren't going to find a lot of love for Jesus' love on this site. Sorry.

 

BTW, cool avitar. It would do Hunter Thompson proud.

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I found the Buddha to be much more forgiving, peaceful and real than Jesus.

Hippies would love to think that Jesus was a hippie, but in truth hippyism was started by drug users, protesters and members of the New Age movement. But hey, I consider myself a hippie. :wicked:

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Right you are! Not much love for the man around here. I never said that Jesus was perfect, though. He was a man like any other. I don't believe in the so called miracles, or healings, walking on water, nor do I believe that Jesus was Gods son. I simply believe he held a message of love for humanity, and it's true that this message was around before Jesus, and you don't need to worship some god that may not even exist. But, my point is this: Love is a worthy message, and it is one that Jesus himself promoted. (Which is why I respect him)

 

You people seem to resent Jesus altogether, when he never wrote down a single word of his own testimony. It was all written by second hand accounts, and I am certain that much of what was written is inaccurate. What shines through for me is the message of love, not the threat of hell, or the promise of heaven. I guess you get out of his legacy what you look for. It just seems there is much bitterness concerning Jesus' around these parts. Do you people 'really' think he was such a bad guy?

 

If resentment is on the menue, why not resent the god of the old testament. He's the freaking nut job of the bible book! Jesus has my respect, but that perfect piece of work the old testament calls God is nothing but a menace to humanity! Jesus seems much more tolerant, and peacful. Much respect! I'd follow him.

 

I don't know much about Buddha, but I'm sure he was a swell guy . . .

 

I was raised a Christian, so my beliefs stem from the writ. Never even considered Buddhism! Then again, I'm not so religious . . .

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You people seem to resent Jesus altogether, when he never wrote down a single word of his own testimony. It was all written by second hand accounts, and I am certain that much of what was written is inaccurate. What shines through for me is the message of love, not the threat of hell, or the promise of heaven. I guess you get out of his legacy what you look for. It just seems there is much bitterness concerning Jesus' around these parts. Do you people 'really' think he was such a bad guy?

 

 

Well, the title you used for the thread is the legacy. And it is the legacy that Jesus (if he ever existed) left behind that we do in fact resent vehemiently. You're right, you can pick and choose whatever you want to focus on from the teachings of christ, but it is the legacy (there's that word again) of christianity throught the centuries that has left a bitter taste in our mouths. We aren't big on the god of the OT either, but it was Jesus who introduced the doctrine of hell. For me that's enough to damn his legacy. It's a sick and twisted doctrine that has caused much suffering and mental anguish for many, many people. More often than not the touchy-feely love messages that are attributed to christ are used to lighten his image, but in practice the fall out from his message has been one of judgement and hatred.

 

That said, I don't hold it against you that you focus on the positives in his message. It reflects on your character and reveals that you are a positive person. I'm just trying to point out the position many on this site take towards christ.

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Traditional Christian thought leaves a bad taste in my mouth as well. Which is why I don't consider myself to be a Christian nowdays. I like to separate the 'legacy' of Christianity from what I believe to be the 'legacy' of Jesus. I think it all comes down to how the writ is interpreted by each individual and/or generation. I guess I'm different than most in what I choose to take from it all?

 

btw, I view hell as being the separation from God. I believe God to be love, and life w/o love would a living hell, as far as I'm concerned. Screw individual salvation, (false hope) I'm in it for the survival of mankind, and I think the message of love is the only thing that will save humanity in the end.

 

I can respect the views of those on this site, but I really can't see why Jesus is viewed as a villian around here. Christianity, yes! But, Jesus? I can't wrap my mind around it . . .

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It might have been something more like "eat cheetos with milk". :shrug:

Now there's a religion I could get onboard with.

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Traditional Christian thought leaves a bad taste in my mouth as well. Which is why I don't consider myself to be a Christian nowdays. I like to separate the 'legacy' of Christianity from what I believe to be the 'legacy' of Jesus. I think it all comes down to how the writ is interpreted by each individual and/or generation. I guess I'm different than most in what I choose to take from it all?

 

btw, I view hell as being the separation from God. I believe God to be love, and life w/o love would a living hell, as far as I'm concerned. Screw individual salvation, (false hope) I'm in it for the survival of mankind, and I think the message of love is the only thing that will save humanity in the end.

 

I can respect the views of those on this site, but I really can't see why Jesus is viewed as a villian around here. Christianity, yes! But, Jesus? I can't wrap my mind around it . . .

Whether Jesus was the man of the gospels or he was Jhosephus Ben-Pandera (sp?) or he didn't live at all is of little importance to the messages. I think you have found the meaning when you say that love is what is important and it has to come from the inner being of the person, it is not related to the ego. I think that when Jesus is seen as a monster, it means that what is being said that he said is being taken literally or the orginal intent of the parables have been degraded because the translators did not have the understanding necessary to properly translate it or they just put in the text what they wanted to. Just my thoughts...

 

Here is a excerpt from Theosophical Light on the Christian Bible.

 

In the times of the early Christian Fathers there were extant certain collections of Logia or 'sayings' of Jesus, and these are believed by scholars to have been the basis upon which the Gospels were compiled. These were some of the secret teachings of Jesus, as alluded to in the quotations above. There were two sects known as the Ebionites and the Nazarenes, who used these sayings as the basis of their teachings and their rule of life. These sects taught a much purer form of Christianity, in which it was recognised that all men are potential Christs, inasmuch as there dwells in every man the Christ, the Son of the Father; so that man needs only to be quickened by the Second Birth in order to come to a realization of his sleeping divinity. In Jesus himself they saw, not a unique son of God, but one of those men who, having themselves attained to knowledge, then become Teachers for every man. But later on, when the increasing materialism of the age had converted the original gospel into an exoteric religion without any Mysteries, these Nazarenes and Ebionites were regarded as heretics. If Fundamentalists would only go back far enough into the fundamentals of their religion, they would find it something very different from what they actually have made of it.

 

In one of our quotations we find a definite assurance by the Teacher that any one of his hearers would be able to do the works that the Teacher did, provided that he followed the rule of life laid down.

 

Anyone reading John's Gospel in the light of what has been said cannot fail to recognise the earnestness of a Teacher striving his utmost to deliver his message of salvation and to win disciples for it. One of his disciples, Peter, fails at a test; and then, when too late, repents, and turns the teachings into a rigid and neurotic religion. It has been well said by people at the present day that Christianity has never yet been really tried; and their words are even truer than they think.

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Fly,

You seem to believe that Jesus existed and you know what he said by what's in the bible. If you choose to accept the bible as TRUE, then you must accept other things that Jesus said therein. It isn't logical to take 10 of his sayings as truth and disregard 10 others from the same source because you don't like them.

How do you decide what parts of the bible are true and what parts are not? Why Jesus and not one of the people before him who taught similar "nice" things, but without the contradictions?

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I can't wrap my mind around it . . .

 

Just as many here can't nor care, to wrap their minds about how you can see the good in the myth/man Jesus. :shrug:

 

It doesn't matter either way. <Chuckle> I choose to see the good in the man/myth (whatever), whereas you people choose to see "whatever it is you see"???????????????

 

Perhaps, you could shed some light as to why Jesus is viewed as a villian around here? Seriously, name one thing he did in his reported life that would justify such bitter views of him. Then again, people hate for absolutely no reason at all, and I suspect the same is true for those here that hate Jesus regardless of his documented actions. I think Christianity in general made you guys bitter. (It did me) But, Jesus did nothing but good in this world, as far as I can see. I'm sure you don't care what I think, nor do I anticipate any justifiable reason for your bitterness towards the man/myth Jesus.

 

Hell, fire, brimstone . . . What a crock of sh!t! I don't think Jesus introduced the concept of a 'literal' hell at all. I suspect it was introduced by catholic priest hungry for power, and dead head followers. /Shrug

 

You guys remember that Wendy's commercial? Well, where's the beef (behind the bitterness?) I really want to know! Maybe I'll see the light, and reject his positive influence on the world as you have . . .

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Fly,

You seem to believe that Jesus existed and you know what he said by what's in the bible. If you choose to accept the bible as TRUE, then you must accept other things that Jesus said therein. It isn't logical to take 10 of his sayings as truth and disregard 10 others from the same source because you don't like them.

How do you decide what parts of the bible are true and what parts are not? Why Jesus and not one of the people before him who taught similar "nice" things, but without the contradictions?

 

I believe that Jesus was a real 'person' not the son of God, not God himself, but a living breathing person just like everyone else. I accept much of what he taught, minus the supernatural bullshit, and life the after death stuff. Eternal life for me is simply the continuation of the human race. I don't accept the entire Bible as truth, but I do think there is great truth in it. Case in point . . . The message of love that Jesus promoted. I think it can save mankind from almost certain destruction.

 

I think most of the Bible is a fairy tale gone awry. But, I also think that if you use your head, and discern what is written you can find much wisdom in the texts. Most people simply believe what they are taught as children, or they resent the entire written word altogether. Like I said, I'm different that most. I was raised Christian. I ate, and breathed the written word for years until I saw it was mostly myth. After that I used it as a tool for some simple guidlines by which to live my life.

 

There seems to be little middle ground when it comes to the Bible. Hell, I reject most of it myself, but not Jesus. I think he was a saint . . .

 

 

Traditional Christian thought leaves a bad taste in my mouth as well. Which is why I don't consider myself to be a Christian nowdays. I like to separate the 'legacy' of Christianity from what I believe to be the 'legacy' of Jesus. I think it all comes down to how the writ is interpreted by each individual and/or generation. I guess I'm different than most in what I choose to take from it all?

 

btw, I view hell as being the separation from God. I believe God to be love, and life w/o love would a living hell, as far as I'm concerned. Screw individual salvation, (false hope) I'm in it for the survival of mankind, and I think the message of love is the only thing that will save humanity in the end.

 

I can respect the views of those on this site, but I really can't see why Jesus is viewed as a villian around here. Christianity, yes! But, Jesus? I can't wrap my mind around it . . .

Whether Jesus was the man of the gospels or he was Jhosephus Ben-Pandera (sp?) or he didn't live at all is of little importance to the messages. I think you have found the meaning when you say that love is what is important and it has to come from the inner being of the person, it is not related to the ego. I think that when Jesus is seen as a monster, it means that what is being said that he said is being taken literally or the orginal intent of the parables have been degraded because the translators did not have the understanding necessary to properly translate it or they just put in the text what they wanted to. Just my thoughts...

 

Here is a excerpt from Theosophical Light on the Christian Bible.

 

In the times of the early Christian Fathers there were extant certain collections of Logia or 'sayings' of Jesus, and these are believed by scholars to have been the basis upon which the Gospels were compiled. These were some of the secret teachings of Jesus, as alluded to in the quotations above. There were two sects known as the Ebionites and the Nazarenes, who used these sayings as the basis of their teachings and their rule of life. These sects taught a much purer form of Christianity, in which it was recognised that all men are potential Christs, inasmuch as there dwells in every man the Christ, the Son of the Father; so that man needs only to be quickened by the Second Birth in order to come to a realization of his sleeping divinity. In Jesus himself they saw, not a unique son of God, but one of those men who, having themselves attained to knowledge, then become Teachers for every man. But later on, when the increasing materialism of the age had converted the original gospel into an exoteric religion without any Mysteries, these Nazarenes and Ebionites were regarded as heretics. If Fundamentalists would only go back far enough into the fundamentals of their religion, they would find it something very different from what they actually have made of it.

 

In one of our quotations we find a definite assurance by the Teacher that any one of his hearers would be able to do the works that the Teacher did, provided that he followed the rule of life laid down.

 

Anyone reading John's Gospel in the light of what has been said cannot fail to recognise the earnestness of a Teacher striving his utmost to deliver his message of salvation and to win disciples for it. One of his disciples, Peter, fails at a test; and then, when too late, repents, and turns the teachings into a rigid and neurotic religion. It has been well said by people at the present day that Christianity has never yet been really tried; and their words are even truer than they think.

 

Thanks . . .

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It doesn't matter either way. <Chuckle> I choose to see the good in the man/myth (whatever), whereas you people choose to see "whatever it is you see"???????????????

 

Perhaps, you could shed some light as to why Jesus is viewed as a villian around here? Seriously, name one thing he did in his reported life that would justify such bitter views of him. Then again, people hate for absolutely no reason at all, and I suspect the same is true for those here that hate Jesus regardless of his documented actions. I think Christianity in general made you guys bitter. (It did me) But, Jesus did nothing but good in this world, as far as I can see. I'm sure you don't care what I think, nor do I anticipate any justifiable reason for your bitterness towards the man/myth Jesus.

 

Hell, fire, brimstone . . . What a crock of sh!t! I don't think Jesus introduced the concept of a 'literal' hell at all. I suspect it was introduced by catholic priest hungry for power, and dead head followers. /Shrug

 

You guys remember that Wendy's commercial? Well, where's the beef (behind the bitterness?) I really want to know! Maybe I'll see the light, and reject his positive influence on the world as you have . . .

 

Why are you being so disingenuous? You are coming at us forcing the issue like the xtians who come to this site to save our souls. You don't know if we're bitter. How long have you hung around here? I for one don't hate Jesus nor do I hate bible god or any god. They aren't real. How do you hate a myth. If you wish to find good in some of Jesus' teachings, have at it. I don't give a shit. I can find good in a lot of people's teachings, both modern and ancient. There's not much that is unique and special about the supposed holy life that christ led as far as I can tell and the legacy of the religion that followed him caused more harm than good. So, feel free to take from the bible what you want to, but why give a rip what we take from it and why lecture us in a holier than though way?

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It doesn't matter either way. <Chuckle> I choose to see the good in the man/myth (whatever), whereas you people choose to see "whatever it is you see"???????????????

 

Perhaps, you could shed some light as to why Jesus is viewed as a villian around here? Seriously, name one thing he did in his reported life that would justify such bitter views of him. Then again, people hate for absolutely no reason at all, and I suspect the same is true for those here that hate Jesus regardless of his documented actions. I think Christianity in general made you guys bitter. (It did me) But, Jesus did nothing but good in this world, as far as I can see. I'm sure you don't care what I think, nor do I anticipate any justifiable reason for your bitterness towards the man/myth Jesus.

 

Hell, fire, brimstone . . . What a crock of sh!t! I don't think Jesus introduced the concept of a 'literal' hell at all. I suspect it was introduced by catholic priest hungry for power, and dead head followers. /Shrug

 

You guys remember that Wendy's commercial? Well, where's the beef (behind the bitterness?) I really want to know! Maybe I'll see the light, and reject his positive influence on the world as you have . . .

 

Why are you being so disingenuous? You are coming at us forcing the issue like the xtians who come to this site to save our souls. You don't know if we're bitter. How long have you hung around here? I for one don't hate Jesus nor do I hate bible god or any god. They aren't real. How do you hate a myth. If you wish to find good in some of Jesus' teachings, have at it. I don't give a shit. I can find good in a lot of people's teachings, both modern and ancient. There's not much that is unique and special about the supposed holy life that christ led as far as I can tell and the legacy of the religion that followed him caused more harm than good. So, feel free to take from the bible what you want to, but why give a rip what we take from it and why lecture us in a holier than though way?

 

Umm yeah, sorry bout that. I just came to this site yesterday, and I don't know a single one of you. That post was meant for "SerenityNow" I shouldn't have directed it towards the entire group. So far, I have recieved bitter remarks concerning the life, and/or legacy of Jesus. At least my view of it. I'm simply defending my views, and asking you guys why Jesus isn't liked much around here. If you don't think he ever existed then why bother with this thread at all? Just curious . . .I'm not trying to be 'disingenuous' Just trying to make sense of what many of you seem to think . . .

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There's not much that is unique and special about the supposed holy life that christ led

 

 

And what is unique is not particularly good....

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If you don't think he ever existed then why bother with this thread at all? Just curious . .

 

Because ideas matter.

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I think Christianity in general made you guys bitter. (It did me) But, Jesus did nothing but good in this world, as far as I can see. I'm sure you don't care what I think, nor do I anticipate any justifiable reason for your bitterness towards the man/myth Jesus.

 

What Jesus did/didn't do is just hearsay. Your right, I don't care what you think and I hate Christianity and any other religion that has mixed within it's pages the ability that give humans power, that allow him to think they are acting on behalf of god when that power has been used violently for over THOUSANDS of years. If the message is simply love then no need for support of slavery, rape, genocide, mass torture, etc.

 

If it's message was only love, it wouldn't have the abilitilty to be twisted towards evil.

 

I hate Christianity, too! Imagine that! Almost anything can be twisted towards evil, though.

 

It's true. I swear it!

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Apparently "bitter" is still the worst insult Christ Cultists can throw at us. :shrug:

 

Oh well...not like I expected originality.

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Fly,

You seem to believe that Jesus existed and you know what he said by what's in the bible. If you choose to accept the bible as TRUE, then you must accept other things that Jesus said therein. It isn't logical to take 10 of his sayings as truth and disregard 10 others from the same source because you don't like them.

How do you decide what parts of the bible are true and what parts are not? Why Jesus and not one of the people before him who taught similar "nice" things, but without the contradictions?

 

I believe that Jesus was a real 'person' not the son of God, not God himself, but a living breathing person just like everyone else. I accept much of what he taught, minus the supernatural bullshit, and life the after death stuff. Eternal life for me is simply the continuation of the human race. I don't accept the entire Bible as truth, but I do think there is great truth in it. Case in point . . . The message of love that Jesus promoted. I think it can save mankind from almost certain destruction.

 

I think most of the Bible is a fairy tale gone awry. But, I also think that if you use your head, and discern what is written you can find much wisdom in the texts. Most people simply believe what they are taught as children, or they resent the entire written word altogether. Like I said, I'm different that most. I was raised Christian. I ate, and breathed the written word for years until I saw it was mostly myth. After that I used it as a tool for some simple guidlines by which to live my life.

 

There seems to be little middle ground when it comes to the Bible. Hell, I reject most of it myself, but not Jesus. I think he was a saint . . .

Well, if you are going to believe, you might as well believe the best. I encourage those who want to do good and hate evil. I don't think most Christians would consider you one of them, but you are welcome here no matter what your classification is. I don't believe Jesus existed because IF he did, and IF he did all of the things written in the gospels, then there would be SOME historical evidence of it. Like someone, anyone writing something about him. But, no, no mention of him anywhere until decades later. But you can believe and I won't dislike you for it.

(Unless, that is, you start spouting off dogma and show yourself to be brain-damaged-- like someone else we had here recently...)

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If you don't think he ever existed then why bother with this thread at all? Just curious . .

 

Because ideas matter.

 

I completely agree!

 

My name is James, btw. :)

 

It's amazing, I was pretty much run off at another board because of my views 'against' Christianity. Am I just too forward, and/or opinionated you think?

 

Didn't mean to offend anyone. You're entitled to your views. I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree when it comes to Jesus. Although, none of you have given a reason for the dislike of him . . . only Christianity in general, in which case, I'm in agreement.

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Apparently "bitter" is still the worst insult Christ Cultists can throw at us. :shrug:

 

Oh well...not like I expected originality.

 

I find this post quite ammusing, really. <Chuckle> I wasn't trying to insult you, Cerise. /shrug If you're insulted by my post it could be a personal issue? Just a thought . . .

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