The Legacy

[Saviourmachine]

Didn't mean to offend anyone. You're entitled to your views. I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree when it comes to Jesus. Although, none of you have given a reason for the dislike of him . . . only Christianity in general, in which case, I'm in agreement.

Hi James / Fly, welcome on board! I see the god of Old and New Testament as my former girlfriend. Or better as someone that abused me over the internet. He/she pretended to be such and such, but disappointed me tremendeously. Now, you're using him/her as example of love. That's difficult to buy for me. I believed in that hell you so carelessly reject. Jesus was the one that saved me from this world and offered me a life not so utterly disgusting as the life that I was living and an afterlife as well. I think the fun is gone. The verses about fire and brimstone could be invented by the gospel writers, but I don't care. They attributed it to Jesus and that Jesus was the one that I believed in. If you know some "real Jesus" behind that "mask of Jesus" it will be very difficult for me to see any profit in going to that turbulent period again.

 

I would prefer that you told us a story about love. A beautiful story where you express your feelings for someone or for humanity in general. That would have been something I would love to read.

 

And. I don't think love is the only important thing. I like jokes, I like games, I like sex, I like (most) food, I like nature. For all these things Jesus doesn't have to offer me anything. In particular do I fail to find jokes in the gospels. Last but not least, love is not something that has to be learned from a story, it has to be experienced.

 

Love you all! (Except for the ones that are really DOGS.)

[Cerise]

Apparently "bitter" is still the worst insult Christ Cultists can throw at us.

 

Oh well...not like I expected originality.

 

I find this post quite ammusing, really. <Chuckle> I wasn't trying to insult you, Cerise. /shrug If you're insulted by my post it could be a personal issue? Just a thought . . .

 

Oh, of course yes, a personal issue, must be. Because using your first posts basically to tell people that you don't understand why they are so bitter and it must be because Christianity hurt them and nothing whatsoever to do with any reported words of some dead jewish guy...that, well that's curteous and wonderful and really the best way to start off a relationship of understanding and non-judgement.

 

 

Are we all laughing now?

 

Goooooooood.

 

Too forward? No. Too opinionated? No. Too awkward and assuming an introduction to people you don't know a thing about?

 

Ding! Winner!

 

But hey, first impressions aren't everything. I'm sure it gets better.

[Fly]

I once believed in hell, and heaven, and all that came with the written word. Like you, I eventually found myself disappointed, but one thing stayed in tact. (my belief in the power of love.) It's not so carleless to reject the concept of hell, (I don't think) but perhaps it is careless to reject the concept of love. Lack of (love) is the foundation of all thats wrong with the world, imo. Sure, there are other things that are important as you mentioned, but w/o love our world falls apart. Wether Jesus existed, or not bears little importance to me. The message exists, and w/o that message life falls apart for many. Salvation, life w/o needless hardships, peace, unity, and above all . . . love. I want these things for mankind, and someday I think we will have them. Maybe not in my lifetime, or in the lifetime of my children or my grandchildren, but someday man will know the value of love and live the like.

 

I sound like a soft little whimp, but this is what I believe. It's the only thing worth believing in, imo.

 

Someone mentioned that eastern religion teaches something similar? I don't care who teaches this message, (Buddha, Jesus, Muhammed, etc) as long as it's heard. Jesus just happens to be my influence, and the one who opened my eyes to the concept of love. . . . I hate organized religion with a passion, though!

 

One last thing before I go . . . I think that mans greatest achievment is to live and love to the fullest degree. This is the way I see life. It can actually be worth living, if you choose to live it.

 

btw, "Cerise" I take it that you were insulted by my posts/views or what have you. I said 'bitter', you exclaimed INSULT! I'm amazed at the Christian 'persecution' mind set (The personal issue) you still have being an ex-Christian and all. I never insulted you at all, but I am sorry you seem to think that I have . . .

 

If I were to judge by my first impression of many of you...I'd surlely take my views elsewhere. Seems to be no room for a Jesus fan around here.

 

btw, I'm not looking to join a club!

 

Love ya, though . . .

 

[Fweethawt]

Wah? Are you serious?

 

I'll share what I'm talking about here:

That's just it. I know what you're talking about, but you've simply picked and chosen which verses from the New Testament that you wish to relate to Jesus. If you had bothered reading everything else, along with the posts that others have made here in this thread containing verses that show quite the opposite, you would know that Jesus isn't "all about the love".

 

Jesus was all about the love, Fweethawt. This is what I get out of the writ, anyway. All you have to do is read the new testament, and you'll see it. (If you look)

I've read the New Testament. I have seen it, and I have looked. You either 1.) can't read, 2.) are a liar, or 3.) think truth is a matter of opinion.

[Saviourmachine]

Lack of (love) is the foundation of all thats wrong with the world, imo. Sure, there are other things that are important as you mentioned, but w/o love our world falls apart. ... The message exists, and w/o that message life falls apart for many. Salvation, life w/o needless hardships, peace, unity, and above all . . . love. I want these things for mankind, and someday I think we will have them. Maybe not in my lifetime, or in the lifetime of my children or my grandchildren, but someday man will know the value of love and live the like.

I do want these things too. But I don't use the terminology like "salvation"; where am I saved from? And I don't consider "love" as a message or commandment. I see it as something that has to be experienced, something that has to be given. I don't have this negative worldview either. Firstly, I see many good things in the world, but most important I see many bad things that humankind is not accountable for. You can try to add to my feelings of guilt, but I will not concede... That can be wrong, and maybe I'm indirectly responsible for the death of tsunami victims, earthquake victims, starvation victims, etcetera, but I couldn't live with that if I really did believe that. So I don't.

[crazy-tiger]

I believe that Jesus was a real 'person' not the son of God, not God himself, but a living breathing person just like everyone else. I accept much of what he taught, minus the supernatural bullshit, and life the after death stuff. Eternal life for me is simply the continuation of the human race. I don't accept the entire Bible as truth, but I do think there is great truth in it. Case in point . . . The message of love that Jesus promoted. I think it can save mankind from almost certain destruction.

Um... How do you know that Jesus promoted this message of love?

You people seem to resent Jesus altogether, when he never wrote down a single word of his own testimony. It was all written by second hand accounts, and I am certain that much of what was written is inaccurate.

See, no-one knows what message Jesus promoted... and you seem to know this.

 

 

Why stick with the Bible as the source of this "message"? You know that the God of the Bible was basically a psychotic git, you know that all we have of Jesus's "teachings" is stuff that was written down between 40 and 120 years after his death, you SHOULD know that Jesus's "teachings" also included a shit load of hate, (possibly more hate than love) and you REALLY should know that the only records we have of said "teachings" have been translated, twisted, mis-copied, and (as was admitted in the 4th century) faked in some cases.

 

There is very little in there that anyone can say is true, and even then, it's only general history and geography...

 

 

Sorry, but it's not a "make your own message" kind of thing... you have to take it as it is.

[Fly]

Wah? Are you serious?

 

I'll share what I'm talking about here:

That's just it. I know what you're talking about, but you've simply picked and chosen which verses from the New Testament that you wish to relate to Jesus. If you had bothered reading everything else, along with the posts that others have made here in this thread containing verses that show quite the opposite, you would know that Jesus isn't "all about the love".

 

Jesus was all about the love, Fweethawt. This is what I get out of the writ, anyway. All you have to do is read the new testament, and you'll see it. (If you look)

I've read the New Testament. I have seen it, and I have looked. You either 1.) can't read, 2.) are a liar, or 3.) think truth is a matter of opinion.

 

1) I read perfectly well. Sometimes between the lines.

 

2) I 'am' a liar, (A big one) but I'm being quite honest about what I believe the underlying message of Jesus to be.

 

3) Truth is truth, but I don't view the Bible as being truth (As I have said)

 

That woman whom Jesus denied at first. . .Was her child not supposedly healed by him? I suppose, I reject what doesn't make sense to me, and take in what does. It doesn't take a genius to discern the good from the bad. Perhaps, I attribute the good to him because that is what I choose to do. Perhaps, I see what I choose to see, and ignore the rest because it doesn't fit the bill. The few things negative attributed to Jesus pale in commparison to the positive, and I simply 'choose' to focus on the good, as many of you choose to focus on the bad. Again . . .Very little middle ground!

 

He's not a savior, but he is a great teacher, and worthy example, imo. I'm sorry if you choose to ignore his positive qualities.

 

I don't!

 

I think he is/was a great man worthy of my respect.

 

Maybe, I made my version of Jesus up? Maybe, Jesus wasn't about love at all .. .Could I be mistaken? Then again, maybe he loved the father more then mankind . . .

 

Makes sense to me!

 

I'll stand by my views. Still, I find myself curious as to why Jesus is viewed so poorly around here. Someone please fill in the blanks!

 

I know I come off rash, but so many of you seem to resent the possibility that Jesus ever existed at all. Even so, I haven't a clue as to why I'm concerning myself with it . . .

 

 

 

Lack of (love) is the foundation of all thats wrong with the world, imo. Sure, there are other things that are important as you mentioned, but w/o love our world falls apart. ... The message exists, and w/o that message life falls apart for many. Salvation, life w/o needless hardships, peace, unity, and above all . . . love. I want these things for mankind, and someday I think we will have them. Maybe not in my lifetime, or in the lifetime of my children or my grandchildren, but someday man will know the value of love and live the like.

I do want these things too. But I don't use the terminology like "salvation"; where am I saved from? And I don't consider "love" as a message or commandment. I see it as something that has to be experienced, something that has to be given. I don't have this negative worldview either. Firstly, I see many good things in the world, but most important I see many bad things that humankind is not accountable for. You can try to add to my feelings of guilt, but I will not concede... That can be wrong, and maybe I'm indirectly responsible for the death of tsunami victims, earthquake victims, starvation victims, etcetera, but I couldn't live with that if I really did believe that. So I don't.

 

I use the term salvation as it pertains to the survival of mankind. . . Not on an individual level.

I don't believe in personal salvation. I don't believe in guilt either. I think it's a waste of time. There is good in the world, but doesn't this good stem from love? As far as natural disasters like tsunami's and such . . . that's just what they are ('natural disasters') I really don't think man is responsible. Love is a message, though. True it is also something to experience, but couldn't it a message as well? I think so. (Obviously)

[Cerise]

That woman whom Jesus denied at first. . .Was her child not supposedly healed by him? I suppose, I reject what doesn't make sense to me, and take in what does. It doesn't take a genius to discern the good from the bad. Perhaps, I attribute the good to him because that is what I choose to do. Perhaps, I see what I choose to see, and ignore the rest because it doesn't fit the bill. The few things negative attributed to Jesus pale in commparison to the positive, and I simply 'choose' to focus on the good, as many of you choose to focus on the bad. Again . . .Very little middle ground!

 

All people have good points. I'm sure Hitler painted very nice landscapes and was very nice to his wife. Doesn't really make up for the whole Holocaust thing though...

 

He's not a savior, but he is a great teacher, and worthy example, imo. I'm sorry if you choose to ignore his positive qualities.

 

I don't!

 

I think he is/was a great man worthy of my respect.

 

Ah great. Condescension! Maybe you and Ssel can get together and discuss why you guys are so much better then the rest of us together.

 

Maybe, I made my version of Jesus up? Maybe, Jesus wasn't about love at all .. .Could I be mistaken? Then again, maybe he loved the father more then mankind . . .

 

Makes sense to me!

 

So condemning people to Hell is okay as long as you make up for it by loving your dad?

 

I'll stand by my views. Still, I find myself curious as to why Jesus is viewed so poorly around here. Someone please fill in the blanks!

 

Why do you keep insisting the man was something special? Care to fill in the blanks?

 

I know I come off rash, but so many of you seem to resent the possibility that Jesus ever existed at all. Even so, I haven't a clue as to why I'm concerning myself with it . . .

 

Me neither. Why not do something else?

[Fly]

I believe that Jesus was a real 'person' not the son of God, not God himself, but a living breathing person just like everyone else. I accept much of what he taught, minus the supernatural bullshit, and life the after death stuff. Eternal life for me is simply the continuation of the human race. I don't accept the entire Bible as truth, but I do think there is great truth in it. Case in point . . . The message of love that Jesus promoted. I think it can save mankind from almost certain destruction.

Um... How do you know that Jesus promoted this message of love?

You people seem to resent Jesus altogether, when he never wrote down a single word of his own testimony. It was all written by second hand accounts, and I am certain that much of what was written is inaccurate.

See, no-one knows what message Jesus promoted... and you seem to know this.

 

 

Why stick with the Bible as the source of this "message"? You know that the God of the Bible was basically a psychotic git, you know that all we have of Jesus's "teachings" is stuff that was written down between 40 and 120 years after his death, you SHOULD know that Jesus's "teachings" also included a shit load of hate, (possibly more hate than love) and you REALLY should know that the only records we have of said "teachings" have been translated, twisted, mis-copied, and (as was admitted in the 4th century) faked in some cases.

 

There is very little in there that anyone can say is true, and even then, it's only general history and geography...

 

 

Sorry, but it's not a "make your own message" kind of thing... you have to take it as it is.

 

The new testament opened my eyes to this message, and Jesus is the reason. Will you deny that Jesus taught us the importance of love? I'm not talking about any kind of biblical truth here. . .I'm talking about the message of love that Jesus promoted. I'm getting tired of repeating myself! I feel like a broken record, haha.

 

Also, you can discern and find your own message. Who says you have to take it as it is? Nothing at face value is accurate . . .I think a deeper look must be taken to see the real value.

[Cerise]

btw, "Cerise" I take it that you were insulted by my posts/views or what have you. I said 'bitter', you exclaimed INSULT! I'm amazed at the Christian 'persecution' mind set (The personal issue) you still have being an ex-Christian and all. I never insulted you at all, but I am sorry you seem to think that I have . . .

 

If I were to judge by my first impression of many of you...I'd surlely take my views elsewhere. Seems to be no room for a Jesus fan around here.

 

btw, I'm not looking to join a club!

 

Love ya, though . . .

 

 

1. I was wrong then? "Bitter" was a compliment? Strange customs you have...

 

2. You aren't sorry at all. You make piss-poor apologies at best, monitered by defensiveness and lashings out. Looks like Jesus' love to me.

 

3. I don't care that you like Jesus. I just don't see why you feel the need to insinuate that there is something dreadfully wrong with those of us who don't like Jesus. If you had introduced yourself in any other way, we probably wouldn't be at odds right now. But you did.

[Fweethawt]

2) I 'am' a liar, (A big one) but I'm being quite honest about what I believe the underlying message of Jesus to be.

'Nuff said.

 

Good day, Fly.

[Fly]

btw, "Cerise" I take it that you were insulted by my posts/views or what have you. I said 'bitter', you exclaimed INSULT! I'm amazed at the Christian 'persecution' mind set (The personal issue) you still have being an ex-Christian and all. I never insulted you at all, but I am sorry you seem to think that I have . . .

 

If I were to judge by my first impression of many of you...I'd surlely take my views elsewhere. Seems to be no room for a Jesus fan around here.

 

btw, I'm not looking to join a club!

 

Love ya, though . . .

 

 

1. I was wrong then? "Bitter" was a compliment? Strange customs you have...

 

2. You aren't sorry at all. You make piss-poor apologies at best, monitered by defensiveness and lashings out. Looks like Jesus' love to me.

 

3. I don't care that you like Jesus. I just don't see why you feel the need to insinuate that there is something dreadfully wrong with those of us who don't like Jesus. If you had introduced yourself in any other way, we probably wouldn't be at odds right now. But you did.

 

So you judge me by my introduction . . .Nice!

 

No, the 'bitter' remark was not a compliment, nor was it an insult. It was an observation. . .Nothing more. I will admit to being a bit rude to you, though. You seem to bring it out of me somehow.

 

Tell me, what about my introduction encouraged you to be at odds with me, anyway? I'm not so tactful (Obviously) and I can be a bit of an asshole, but thats 'not' how I 'introduced' myself. I've merely been defending my views against what I considered to be condescending remarks. Insults, too! I'm not a Christ Cultist, ya know. . .

 

I still have that "I'm right your wrong" attitude derived from years of exposure to Christianity. I come by it honestly, so . . .

 

Piss poor appologies, huh. I'll have to work on that. Believe it or not, I'm quite sincere when I appologize for something specific.

 

I don't mind being at odds, though. I'm having alot of fun with you.

 

(How's that for honesty?)

[Fweethawt]

I'm having alot of fun with you.

G'head, Cerise, show him how much "fun" you can be.

[Fly]

Do you all think I'm an asshole for that?

 

Jesus is the Devil incarnate, and you can never be free from his grips! I'll leave you be now!

 

Sorry to those that were civil towards me.

 

Twisted evil rules! (Whoot whoot)

 

C-ya

 

Unless of course Cerise has something important to say . . .

[BuddhistCommunist]

Fly you sound like a cross between an exchristian and Amanda, I have infinite respect for both, but your doing the same thing I did when I first got here. I preached that Atheism was a religion and got everybody pissed off(and please no one else bring it back up) first impression posts can be hard but you'll get used to the way the site works.

 

peace fellow hippy,

BC

 

Do you all think I'm an asshole for that?

 

Jesus is the Devil incarnate, and you can never be free from his grips! I'll leave you be now!

 

Sorry to those that were civil towards me.

 

Twisted evil rules! (Whoot whoot)

 

C-ya

 

Unless of course Cerise has something important to say . . .

 

EH?

[Cerise]

Do you all think I'm an asshole for that?

 

Jesus is the Devil incarnate, and you can never be free from his grips! I'll leave you be now!

 

Sorry to those that were civil towards me.

 

Twisted evil rules! (Whoot whoot)

 

C-ya

 

Unless of course Cerise has something important to say . . .

 

Don't let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya.

[Fly]

Yeah, I'm a bit frustrated is all. Nothing personal, I'm a little tired, and a little wired. My idea of fun, no?

 

He could be, though . . .The devil incarnate!

 

I need some sleep, and I sincerely appologize to Cerise. I'm really sorry for being so rude to you. I hope you can forgive me.

 

Thanks, BuddhistCommunist.

 

By Cerise!

 

c-ya on the flip side . . .

 

If you're lucky!

[Cerise]

Yeah, I'm a bit frustrated is all. Nothing personal, I'm a little tired, and a little wired. My idea of fun, no?

 

He could be, though . . .The devil incarnate!

 

I need some sleep, and I sincerely appologize to Cerise. I'm really sorry for being so rude to you. I hope you can forgive me.

 

Thanks, BuddhistCommunist.

 

By Cerise!

 

c-ya on the flip side . . .

 

If you're lucky!

 

 

Is the devil incarnate going to be on the flip-side?

 

Maybe that's the B-side...does the devil incarnate play guitar?

 

If I seem overly crabby with you it's 50% stress, 40% frustration at having to answer the same three questions from newcomers to the site, and 10% natural abrasiveness.

 

So don't sweat it. Just think carefully about how you approach this group.

[crazy-tiger]

The new testament opened my eyes to this message, and Jesus is the reason. Will you deny that Jesus taught us the importance of love? I'm not talking about any kind of biblical truth here. . .I'm talking about the message of love that Jesus promoted. I'm getting tired of repeating myself! I feel like a broken record, haha.

To quote myself, since I feel you didn't bother reading it the first time...

You know that the God of the Bible was basically a psychotic git, you know that all we have of Jesus's "teachings" is stuff that was written down between 40 and 120 years after his death, you SHOULD know that Jesus's "teachings" also included a shit load of hate, (possibly more hate than love) and you REALLY should know that the only records we have of said "teachings" have been translated, twisted, mis-copied, and (as was admitted in the 4th century) faked in some cases.

No-one KNOWS what Jesus taught... you can believe all you want, but that's all it is. I would be an idea if you didn't pass off your belief as Truth.

Will you deny that those same teachings you say show the importance of love ALSO show us the importance of HATE?

How can you be talking about what Jesus taught without talking about biblical truth?? THAT'S THE ONLY PLACE HIS "TEACHINGS" ARE!

Those teachings ARE biblical truth and it would be best if you accepted that little fact, or you're suggesting that his teachings aren't truth at all... (they're biblical, so if they are true, then they are biblical truth)

Also, you can discern and find your own message. Who says you have to take it as it is? Nothing at face value is accurate . . .I think a deeper look must be taken to see the real value.

I've taken some VERY deep looks at the Bible, Christianity, and the "teachings" of Jesus... and the message that comes out of them is one of hatred, intolerence and fear of anyone different to yourself.

That is the legacy of Jesus... hatred, intolerence, fear.

 

I have my own message, thank you very much... the Golden Rule. (pre-Jesus, by the way... so don't try to say I got it from his teachings)

[Taphophilia]

Fly,

 

Have you ever considered "A Course In Miracles" It uses a lot of Christian language but is definitely not Christian. It also puts Christ in the same "God is love" tone you speak of and it's a much better book then the Bible.

 

"The course does not aim at teaching the meaning of love, for that is beyond what can be taught. It does aim, however, at removing the blocks to the awareness of love's presence, which is your natural inheritance. The opposite of love is fear, but what is all-encompassing can have no opposite.

 

This course can therefore be summed up very simply in this way:

 

Nothing real can be threatened.

Nothing unreal exists.

 

Herein lies the peace of God."

[Fly]

Ahhh, light at the end of the tunnel. I was beginning to think you'd never come around, Cerise.

btw, there is no flip side as far as I can tell. I shouldn't need to tread lightly, though. Most of you know what it means to believe in Jesus, or at least most of you (Being ex-Christians) once believed he was about love, right?

 

crazy-tiger, I never said any of my views were truth. I never will, either! I accept that they are 'ideas'. I've only suggested that love was the essence of my views on Jesus. My idea of truth is what we find in reality, not what some book says it is.

 

Btw, the golden rule is the message I believe in as well .. .only I got it from the Bible. I don't always adhere to it, but I do believe in it.

 

You say Jesus teaches hate, though. I've never read that. Unless you're talking about hating evil, and so called sin, I'd say your mistaken. Nevertheless, you are entitled to your views. I certainly won't judge you for them. I may disagree, but I won't judge.

 

Hate, intolerance, and fear is the legacy of Christianity. I don't see this in Jesus, or what I believe his message to be. Maybe, I'm missing something you're not? If so, perhaps you could explain, and enlighten me?

 

I once believed that Jesus was the devil, haha! I'm not joking about this, either. The Bible was a spawn of Satan himself, and I refused every word written in it. That is until I got over my fears. It is amazing what time can do to ones perceptions, huh? Of course, drugs played a major role in my thinking process at the time. Sometimes they still do. /Shrug

 

I'm a hippie by nature, and I won't appologize for that . . .

 

 

Taphophilia, I'm not familiar with "A Course In Miracles" sounds interesting, though . . .

[Cerise]

Ahhh, light at the end of the tunnel. I was beginning to think you'd never come around, Cerise.

btw, there is no flip side as far as I can tell. I shouldn't need to tread lightly, though. Most of you know what it means to believe in Jesus, or at least most of you (Being ex-Christians) once believed he was about love, right?

 

 

The operative word in that sentence being "once".

[crazy-tiger]

Ahhh, light at the end of the tunnel. I was beginning to think you'd never come around, Cerise.

btw, there is no flip side as far as I can tell. I shouldn't need to tread lightly, though. Most of you know what it means to believe in Jesus, or at least most of you (Being ex-Christians) once believed he was about love, right?

Very unlikely...

crazy-tiger, I never said any of my views were truth. I never will, either! I accept that they are 'ideas'. I've only suggested that love was the essence of my views on Jesus. My idea of truth is what we find in reality, not what some book says it is.

Are you now saying that your view (the one of Jesus teaching love) is not actually true?

Btw, the golden rule is the message I believe in as well .. .only I got it from the Bible. I don't always adhere to it, but I do believe in it.

 

You say Jesus teaches hate, though. I've never read that. Unless you're talking about hating evil, and so called sin, I'd say your mistaken. Nevertheless, you are entitled to your views. I certainly won't judge you for them. I may disagree, but I won't judge.

You've never read it... you haven't read anything that shows Jesus teaching hate, intolerence and fear?

I suppose, I reject what doesn't make sense to me, and take in what does. It doesn't take a genius to discern the good from the bad. Perhaps, I attribute the good to him because that is what I choose to do. Perhaps, I see what I choose to see, and ignore the rest because it doesn't fit the bill. The few things negative attributed to Jesus pale in commparison to the positive, and I simply 'choose' to focus on the good, as many of you choose to focus on the bad.

Yes you have... you just chose to ignore it!

Hate, intolerance, and fear is the legacy of Christianity. I don't see this in Jesus, or what I believe his message to be. Maybe, I'm missing something you're not? If so, perhaps you could explain, and enlighten me?

You are missing something, alright... you're missing out a load of what Jesus taught.

 

As I said, it's not a "make your own message" thing... you either take ALL the message, or none of it. Leaving out any part of it means you are not getting the message at all... if the message is 5 and you leave out 10% of it, the message you get is 4.5... which isn't the message at all, is it?

 

 

One thing you should remember... Christianity is the Legacy of Jesus. It might not be the Legacy that he wanted, but it's the result of his teachings...

It doesn't matter whether you see the hate, fear and intolerence in his teachings... others did and still do.

 

That's his Legacy, and I'm justified in hating the founder of that legacy. (well, I'd hate him if he'd actually existed)

[Vigile]

Although, none of you have given a reason for the dislike of him . . . only Christianity in general, in which case, I'm in agreement.

 

Um, I thought I mentioned the hell doctrine a couple of times. You chose to reinterpret it and attribute it to other writers, but oh well.

 

Other than that, I don't like the faith garbage that he taught. Faith is just a way to turn off your brain and let others do your thinking for you. Finally I don't like the fact that he claimed to be the only way to god. This has caused a lot of suffering and strife around the world throughout history.

 

Like Kryten says though, I believe that the Jesus we discuss here is pretty much a collection of contributions added to a legend over the years that was finally combined in the cannon centuries later. Bottom line, it's the doctrine and the legacy of that doctrine I hate not the man himself. You can find plenty of people preaching love and wisdom in plentitude in sources outside the bible.

 

I'm not so sure that love is going to "save" the world or anything like that. You would have to believe that there was some sort of spiritual power behind the emotion that will sweep across the masses in order for such a phenomena to occur. I don't believe there is such a spiritual power, but hey, if it works for you

[Guest JPD]

Taph, wasn't A Course in Miracles the writings of some wacko claiming to be channelling Jesus? Why would you recommend this book?