chrisstavrous Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 Christians here are my reasons for leaving god, now if you can give me a good reason to return to god I will give it a fair hearing. 1. God did not heal me or help me heal myself 2. The god in the Bible does horrible things to people just for his own good 3. Science and the bible continue to conflict on many levels 4. There's no original biblical source's that I can rely on 5. There's thousands and thousands of different christian faith's, which one is the right Jesus? my own version of jesus? 6. When I was a christian I was not looking for a reward (eternal life) all I ever wanted was to love god and be who god wanted me to be, but even that was impossible to reach. 7. Even after year's of being a christian I ended up in hospital for schizophrenia 8. I have never met a christian who even comes close to being like Jesus 9. Faith is subjective Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pawn Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 Amen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrdinaryClay Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 Christians here are my reasons for leaving god, now if you can give me a good reason to return to god I will give it a fair hearing. 1. God did not heal me or help me heal myself 2. The god in the Bible does horrible things to people just for his own good 3. Science and the bible continue to conflict on many levels 4. There's no original biblical sorce that I can rely on 5. There's thousands and thousands of different christian faith's, which one is the right Jesus? my own version of jesus? 6. When I was a christian I was not looking for a reward (eternal life) all I ever wanted was to love god and be who god wanted me to be, but even that was impossible to reach. 7. Even after year's of being a christian I ended up in hospital for schizophrenia 8. I have never met a christian who even comes close to being like Jesus 9. Faith is subjective Regarding 6 ... Why do you personally think this was not possible? Regarding 7 ... I'm sorry to hear of your illness. Did you by chance post your testimony? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisstavrous Posted November 10, 2013 Author Share Posted November 10, 2013 Christians here are my reasons for leaving god, now if you can give me a good reason to return to god I will give it a fair hearing. 1. God did not heal me or help me heal myself 2. The god in the Bible does horrible things to people just for his own good 3. Science and the bible continue to conflict on many levels 4. There's no original biblical sorce that I can rely on 5. There's thousands and thousands of different christian faith's, which one is the right Jesus? my own version of jesus? 6. When I was a christian I was not looking for a reward (eternal life) all I ever wanted was to love god and be who god wanted me to be, but even that was impossible to reach. 7. Even after year's of being a christian I ended up in hospital for schizophrenia 8. I have never met a christian who even comes close to being like Jesus 9. Faith is subjective Regarding 6 ...Why do you personally think this was not possible? Regarding 7 ... I'm sorry to hear of your illness. Did you by chance post your testimony? It's not I didn't think it was impossible I had no interest in the reward of eternal life, I just wanted to have a full life like jesus promised. As for my testimony I don't have anything in-depth about my mental illness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrdinaryClay Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 Regarding 6 ...Why do you personally think this was not possible? Regarding 7 ... I'm sorry to hear of your illness. Did you by chance post your testimony? It's not I didn't think it was impossible I had no interest in the reward of eternal life, I just wanted to have a full life like jesus promised. As for my testimony I don't have anything in-depth about my mental illness. Jesus' promises were not the promises of this world. What did you understand a full life to be? Did your illness come on after you became a Christian? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 Regarding 6 ...Why do you personally think this was not possible? Regarding 7 ... I'm sorry to hear of your illness. Did you by chance post your testimony? It's not I didn't think it was impossible I had no interest in the reward of eternal life, I just wanted to have a full life like jesus promised. As for my testimony I don't have anything in-depth about my mental illness. Jesus' promises were not the promises of this world. What did you understand a full life to be? Did your illness come on after you became a Christian? The world doesn't make promises. It's a planet. Jesus isn't real so his promises are myth. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisstavrous Posted November 10, 2013 Author Share Posted November 10, 2013 Regarding 6 ... Why do you personally think this was not possible? Regarding 7 ... I'm sorry to hear of your illness. Did you by chance post your testimony? It's not I didn't think it was impossible I had no interest in the reward of eternal life, I just wanted to have a full life like jesus promised. As for my testimony I don't have anything in-depth about my mental illness. Jesus' promises were not the promises of this world. What did you understand a full life to be? Did your illness come on after you became a Christian? A full life I believe would have been a life where jesus filled my emptyness to overflowing, this also was something jesus promised. As for my schizophrenia, that came after. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duderonomy Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 Christians here are my reasons for leaving god, now if you can give me a good reason to return to god I will give it a fair hearing. 1. God did not heal me or help me heal myself 2. The god in the Bible does horrible things to people just for his own good 3. Science and the bible continue to conflict on many levels 4. There's no original biblical sorce that I can rely on 5. There's thousands and thousands of different christian faith's, which one is the right Jesus? my own version of jesus? 6. When I was a christian I was not looking for a reward (eternal life) all I ever wanted was to love god and be who god wanted me to be, but even that was impossible to reach. 7. Even after year's of being a christian I ended up in hospital for schizophrenia 8. I have never met a christian who even comes close to being like Jesus 9. Faith is subjective Regarding 6 ... Why do you personally think this was not possible? Regarding 7 ... I'm sorry to hear of your illness. Did you by chance post your testimony? "Regarding 6?" O.C. Start with reason #1. You have the Spirit of God, why pick and choose? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 A full life I believe would have been a life where jesus filled my emptyness to overflowing, this also was something jesus promised. As for my schizophrenia, that came after. I sure feel for you. My problem was depression. Why didn't Jesus take away my depression? I battled with it and prayed for decades. It was so ironic how much my depression improved when I left religion. And you are right about Jesus making a lot of promises in the Bible and none of them happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pawn Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 A full life I believe would have been a life where jesus filled my emptyness to overflowing, this also was something jesus promised. As for my schizophrenia, that came after. I sure feel for you. My problem was depression. Why didn't Jesus take away my depression? I battled with it and prayed for decades. It was so ironic how much my depression improved when I left religion. And you are right about Jesus making a lot of promises in the Bible and none of them happened.Same Here. I prayed sincerely and with tears and Heartbreak to Jesus for years to heal my depression... With no answer. Once I finally gave up my faith in the imaginary, my depression lifted dramatically. I empathize with you 100% 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrdinaryClay Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 Regarding 6 ... Why do you personally think this was not possible? Regarding 7 ... I'm sorry to hear of your illness. Did you by chance post your testimony? It's not I didn't think it was impossible I had no interest in the reward of eternal life, I just wanted to have a full life like jesus promised. As for my testimony I don't have anything in-depth about my mental illness.Jesus' promises were not the promises of this world. What did you understand a full life to be? Did your illness come on after you became a Christian? A full life I believe would have been a life where jesus filled my emptyness to overflowing, this also was something jesus promised. As for my schizophrenia, that came after. Are you still empty? Are you still suffering from schizophrenia? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
◊ crazyguy123 ◊ Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 A full life I believe would have been a life where jesus filled my emptyness to overflowing, this also was something jesus promised. As for my schizophrenia, that came after. I sure feel for you. My problem was depression. Why didn't Jesus take away my depression? I battled with it and prayed for decades. It was so ironic how much my depression improved when I left religion. And you are right about Jesus making a lot of promises in the Bible and none of them happened. Well, if the book of Job is any indication, if Bible god/Jesus were real, then your depression was just a test of your faith. That's just how the big, gray-bearded guy rolls. He'll send the Devil to give you diseases and kill your family, maybe he'll purposefully put a lot of shit in your life, without having the Devil do his dirty work, just to test your faith... Then... the only prayers he answers with a "yes" are prayers for things that would have happened whether you prayed or not. He's got to be hidden and make it look like he's not there, just to test your faith. It's a good thing there's no need to believe in such a prick of a god anyway. It does seem to make life easier when you don't feel like you've got some jealous, violent, and sadistic god breathing down your neck and reading your mind so he can convict you of thought crimes. I'm glad your depression improved MM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrdinaryClay Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 Christians here are my reasons for leaving god, now if you can give me a good reason to return to god I will give it a fair hearing. 1. God did not heal me or help me heal myself 2. The god in the Bible does horrible things to people just for his own good 3. Science and the bible continue to conflict on many levels 4. There's no original biblical sorce that I can rely on 5. There's thousands and thousands of different christian faith's, which one is the right Jesus? my own version of jesus? 6. When I was a christian I was not looking for a reward (eternal life) all I ever wanted was to love god and be who god wanted me to be, but even that was impossible to reach. 7. Even after year's of being a christian I ended up in hospital for schizophrenia 8. I have never met a christian who even comes close to being like Jesus 9. Faith is subjective Regarding 6 ... Why do you personally think this was not possible? Regarding 7 ... I'm sorry to hear of your illness. Did you by chance post your testimony? "Regarding 6?" O.C. Start with reason #1. You were a Christian, right? Tell me what prayer response did Christ receive in the Garden of Gethsemane? You have the Spirit of God, why pick and choose? What does the indwelling of the Holy Spirit have to do with which question I ask. I'll tell you. None. If I provided links to the answers would you read them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrdinaryClay Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 A full life I believe would have been a life where jesus filled my emptyness to overflowing, this also was something jesus promised. As for my schizophrenia, that came after. I sure feel for you. My problem was depression. Why didn't Jesus take away my depression? I battled with it and prayed for decades. It was so ironic how much my depression improved when I left religion. And you are right about Jesus making a lot of promises in the Bible and none of them happened.Same Here. I prayed sincerely and with tears and Heartbreak to Jesus for years to heal my depression... With no answer. Once I finally gave up my faith in the imaginary, my depression lifted dramatically. I empathize with you 100% I have heard many, man, many testimonies of people who's lives improved with Christianity - including mine. The only place I hear of the reverse is hear. Now why do you think that's the case? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 I have heard many, man, many testimonies of people who's lives improved with Christianity - including mine. The only place I hear of the reverse is hear. Now why do you think that's the case? You got out more. You got away from the people who pat each other on the back saying "can you believe how lucky god is to have us"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenstar Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 great questions chrisstavrous... I struggle with depression and anxiety, religion just made it worse. I'm much healthier and happier now. My Great Uncle had schizophrenia (he was also an amazing man - he passed away a few years ago, I miss him), so I deeply empathize - it's a tough thing to deal with. Hopefully you are getting great medical care. hugs!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrdinaryClay Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 Then... the only prayers he answers with a "yes" are prayers for things that would have happened whether you prayed or not. He's got to be hidden and make it look like he's not there, just to test your faith. It's a good thing there's no need to believe in such a prick of a god anyway. It does seem to make life easier when you don't feel like you've got some jealous, violent, and sadistic god breathing down your neck and reading your mind so he can convict you of thought crimes. I'm glad your depression improved MM. "They are like children who sit in the market place and call to one another, and they say, 'We played the flute for you, and you did not dance; we sang a dirge, and you did not weep.' (Luk 7:32) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrdinaryClay Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 I have heard many, man, many testimonies of people who's lives improved with Christianity - including mine. The only place I hear of the reverse is hear. Now why do you think that's the case? You got out more. You got away from the people who pat each other on the back saying "can you believe how lucky god is to have us"? That is your claim. Why should I believe you? Hmm ... you don't believe me and I don't believe you, well ain't that something. Maybe this website is simply a place of like minded commiseration where people congregate to reinforce their anti-Christ attitudes. You see I do get out far and have for decades Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandiego4me Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 Christians here are my reasons for leaving god, now if you can give me a good reason to return to god I will give it a fair hearing. 1. God did not heal me or help me heal myself 2. The god in the Bible does horrible things to people just for his own good 3. Science and the bible continue to conflict on many levels 4. There's no original biblical source's that I can rely on 5. There's thousands and thousands of different christian faith's, which one is the right Jesus? my own version of jesus? 6. When I was a christian I was not looking for a reward (eternal life) all I ever wanted was to love god and be who god wanted me to be, but even that was impossible to reach. 7. Even after year's of being a christian I ended up in hospital for schizophrenia 8. I have never met a christian who even comes close to being like Jesus 9. Faith is subjective Dude, you are my soul brother. I promise not to give you a formulaic response. I hate church and fundamentalist Christianity. However, I love God, even though he scares me to death most of the time. 1. Time. We all know that we'll freaking die one day. We all hate it. I hate the fact that my life is winding down. I'm going to be 50 this year. I don't like it. We all have to deal with eternity. I wish it wasn't so. But we have to. I've been saved for about 35 years. The longer I'm a Christian, the less I feel saved. Jesus scares the heck out of me. I have had a freakishly bizarre nightmare for almost 15 years. I wake up sometimes at night from a dream, thinking I'm literally in hell. It scares the freaking heck out of me. It usually takes me about 5 seconds to realize that I was just dreaming. The doctrine of hell has always freaking terrified me. However, I cannot remain in one place because of it. I must move on. 2. This next statement might make you vomit. It's not intended in any sense to be a stupid, trite Christian comment. Rather, it's what I have slowly been realizing it's what I need to do to survive this life. I haven't done it yet, but, I am going to start cutting out verses from Jesus that relay only a positive message. My soul tells me that God is good. My soul tells me that hell isn't. I am simply going to start posting a verse on my mirror once week and start accepting it. For example, I might put something up like, "If any man comes unto me, I will in no wise cast him out" and then start believing it. Forget the other shit that's out there. Just focus on the good attributes of God. For all we know, hell was invented by Satan as a decoy, in an attempt to get us to hate God. 3. You are SO right. There are almost no people who seem to be true Christians. How can this be? 4. As for original biblical sources, I have done a shit load of study on this topic. The ancient biblical texts are far-and-away the most authenticated texts from ancient times. Nothing even comes close. For example, the Dead Sea scrolls discovered in 1947 contained the entire book of Isaiah, a verbatim translation of Isaiah that perfectly matched up with the Isaiah that we have today. Not trying to offend anyone, but, folks who say that the old resources aren't reliable have never done any real research on the issue. 5. Science and God don't conflict like you think they do. Again, done a crap load of research on this issue. Not in an attempt to support my dogma, but to find out what the freaking truth is. People run to science for protection, but it really doesn't offer crap. Consider, 13.7 billion years ago, scientists agree that NOTHING existed. If nothing existed, then how did everything come into existence? It's scientifically impossible, yet people claim it's possible. Also, our bodies are freaking super computers that can do unimaginable things that real computers could never do. How in the hell could a pool of slime assemble itself into a 3 trillion cell super computer that works on its own? It can't. Science completely defies common sense. I'm the kind of guy who reads posters in doctor's offices, intrigued by the incredible complexity of the body. No freaking way were the systems in the body created by some monkey farting while eating green slime. No way. That type of faith is as blind as faith in God without reason. We are all in for the fight of our lives. There will never be an easy way to figure out God. For the atheist, there is equally no easy way to figure how a universe could be created out of nothing. So, we are all stuck in this crappy situation of trying to figure out where to go. My vote is to focus on the positive attributes of Jesus. Why Jesus and not another religion? What do the other religions offer? Jesus is the only one who died for the sins of anybody. The positive side of Jesus outweighs what other religions offer. Is this the perfect solution? No. But it's a good start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisstavrous Posted November 10, 2013 Author Share Posted November 10, 2013 Regarding 6 ... Why do you personally think this was not possible? Regarding 7 ... I'm sorry to hear of your illness. Did you by chance post your testimony? It's not I didn't think it was impossible I had no interest in the reward of eternal life, I just wanted to have a full life like jesus promised. As for my testimony I don't have anything in-depth about my mental illness.Jesus' promises were not the promises of this world. What did you understand a full life to be? Did your illness come on after you became a Christian? A full life I believe would have been a life where jesus filled my emptyness to overflowing, this also was something jesus promised. As for my schizophrenia, that came after. Are you still empty? Are you still suffering from schizophrenia?Yes I am, but I do realize now that if I don't choose to help myself things will only get worse. As for the schizophrenia there is no cure so for now I will continue to suffer its effects untill there is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisstavrous Posted November 10, 2013 Author Share Posted November 10, 2013 Christians here are my reasons for leaving god, now if you can give me a good reason to return to god I will give it a fair hearing. 1. God did not heal me or help me heal myself 2. The god in the Bible does horrible things to people just for his own good 3. Science and the bible continue to conflict on many levels 4. There's no original biblical sorce that I can rely on 5. There's thousands and thousands of different christian faith's, which one is the right Jesus? my own version of jesus? 6. When I was a christian I was not looking for a reward (eternal life) all I ever wanted was to love god and be who god wanted me to be, but even that was impossible to reach. 7. Even after year's of being a christian I ended up in hospital for schizophrenia 8. I have never met a christian who even comes close to being like Jesus 9. Faith is subjective Regarding 6 ...Why do you personally think this was not possible? Regarding 7 ... I'm sorry to hear of your illness. Did you by chance post your testimony? "Regarding 6?" O.C. Start with reason #1.You were a Christian, right? Tell me what prayer response did Christ receive in the Garden of Gethsemane? You have the Spirit of God, why pick and choose? What does the indwelling of the Holy Spirit have to do with which question I ask. I'll tell you. None. If I provided links to the answers would you read them? I know jesus said not my will but yours. But I did everything I could do to follow gods will. However the more time I spent reading the bible for answers and talking with other believers on how to be what god wanted me and us to be the more confused I became. Of all the christians I knew none of them had a straight answer and the bible was always a source of contention amongst them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisstavrous Posted November 10, 2013 Author Share Posted November 10, 2013 Christians here are my reasons for leaving god, now if you can give me a good reason to return to god I will give it a fair hearing. 1. God did not heal me or help me heal myself 2. The god in the Bible does horrible things to people just for his own good 3. Science and the bible continue to conflict on many levels 4. There's no original biblical source's that I can rely on 5. There's thousands and thousands of different christian faith's, which one is the right Jesus? my own version of jesus? 6. When I was a christian I was not looking for a reward (eternal life) all I ever wanted was to love god and be who god wanted me to be, but even that was impossible to reach. 7. Even after year's of being a christian I ended up in hospital for schizophrenia 8. I have never met a christian who even comes close to being like Jesus 9. Faith is subjective Dude, you are my soul brother. I promise not to give you a formulaic response. I hate church and fundamentalist Christianity. However, I love God, even though he scares me to death most of the time. 1. Time. We all know that we'll freaking die one day. We all hate it. I hate the fact that my life is winding down. I'm going to be 50 this year. I don't like it. We all have to deal with eternity. I wish it wasn't so. But we have to. I've been saved for about 35 years. The longer I'm a Christian, the less I feel saved. Jesus scares the heck out of me. I have had a freakishly bizarre nightmare for almost 15 years. I wake up sometimes at night from a dream, thinking I'm literally in hell. It scares the freaking heck out of me. It usually takes me about 5 seconds to realize that I was just dreaming. The doctrine of hell has always freaking terrified me. However, I cannot remain in one place because of it. I must move on. 2. This next statement might make you vomit. It's not intended in any sense to be a stupid, trite Christian comment. Rather, it's what I have slowly been realizing it's what I need to do to survive this life. I haven't done it yet, but, I am going to start cutting out verses from Jesus that relay only a positive message. My soul tells me that God is good. My soul tells me that hell isn't. I am simply going to start posting a verse on my mirror once week and start accepting it. For example, I might put something up like, "If any man comes unto me, I will in no wise cast him out" and then start believing it. Forget the other shit that's out there. Just focus on the good attributes of God. For all we know, hell was invented by Satan as a decoy, in an attempt to get us to hate God. 3. You are SO right. There are almost no people who seem to be true Christians. How can this be? 4. As for original biblical sources, I have done a shit load of study on this topic. The ancient biblical texts are far-and-away the most authenticated texts from ancient times. Nothing even comes close. For example, the Dead Sea scrolls discovered in 1947 contained the entire book of Isaiah, a verbatim translation of Isaiah that perfectly matched up with the Isaiah that we have today. Not trying to offend anyone, but, folks who say that the old resources aren't reliable have never done any real research on the issue. 5. Science and God don't conflict like you think they do. Again, done a crap load of research on this issue. Not in an attempt to support my dogma, but to find out what the freaking truth is. People run to science for protection, but it really doesn't offer crap. Consider, 13.7 billion years ago, scientists agree that NOTHING existed. If nothing existed, then how did everything come into existence? It's scientifically impossible, yet people claim it's possible. Also, our bodies are freaking super computers that can do unimaginable things that real computers could never do. How in the hell could a pool of slime assemble itself into a 3 trillion cell super computer that works on its own? It can't. Science completely defies common sense. I'm the kind of guy who reads posters in doctor's offices, intrigued by the incredible complexity of the body. No freaking way were the systems in the body created by some monkey farting while eating green slime. No way. That type of faith is as blind as faith in God without reason. We are all in for the fight of our lives. There will never be an easy way to figure out God. For the atheist, there is equally no easy way to figure how a universe could be created out of nothing. So, we are all stuck in this crappy situation of trying to figure out where to go. My vote is to focus on the positive attributes of Jesus. Why Jesus and not another religion? What do the other religions offer? Jesus is the only one who died for the sins of anybody. The positive side of Jesus outweighs what other religions offer. Is this the perfect solution? No. But it's a good start. Are you saying your a struggling christian who still has hope in jesus. Some of the things you said that are happening to you while you retain your faith is disturbing, this is the very reason I left christianity. I can not live with that kind of faith and my mental illness together. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator Popular Post TheRedneckProfessor Posted November 10, 2013 Super Moderator Popular Post Share Posted November 10, 2013 Christians here are my reasons for leaving god, now if you can give me a good reason to return to god I will give it a fair hearing. 1. God did not heal me or help me heal myself 2. The god in the Bible does horrible things to people just for his own good 3. Science and the bible continue to conflict on many levels 4. There's no original biblical sorce that I can rely on 5. There's thousands and thousands of different christian faith's, which one is the right Jesus? my own version of jesus? 6. When I was a christian I was not looking for a reward (eternal life) all I ever wanted was to love god and be who god wanted me to be, but even that was impossible to reach. 7. Even after year's of being a christian I ended up in hospital for schizophrenia 8. I have never met a christian who even comes close to being like Jesus 9. Faith is subjective Regarding 6 ... Why do you personally think this was not possible? Regarding 7 ... I'm sorry to hear of your illness. Did you by chance post your testimony? Here we see an man putting forth in a clear and articulate manner the honest questions he has concerning the faith he once practiced. We also see the "christian" response in OrdinaryClay immediately attacking what he views as the honest man's weaknesses. Christians prey on weakness because they know their "arguments" cannont stand up to the strength of honesty, let alone logical scrutiny. Let OrdinaryClay forever be remembered as a man who preyed upon the weaknesses of others instead of engaging in honest debate. 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenstar Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 My thoughts exactly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
◊ crazyguy123 ◊ Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 My vote is to focus on the positive attributes of Jesus. Why Jesus and not another religion? What do the other religions offer? Jesus is the only one who died for the sins of anybody. The positive side of Jesus outweighs what other religions offer. Is this the perfect solution? No. But it's a good start. This hardly seems a good reason to stick with Jesus and not another god or religion. If what the Bible says about everyone sinning and everyone falling short of the glory of the god of Israel is correct, then it must mean that everyone is programmed to sin. If that were not the case, the Bible would not have said that everyone has sinned. There would have been lots and lots of sinless people who never disobeyed the Bible god, not even once. Jesus dying for people's sins and making it possible to save people from being slaves to sin is no different than a doctor injecting poison into your body and then giving you the antidote to save you. The only positive side to Jesus is that he supposedly gives humans a chance to have eternal life, but everyone must do everything the way he says to do it, otherwise they become deserving of eternal torture. Any deity that would threaten anyone with eternal torture is corrupt and sadistic. It doesn't matter if they offer and promise good things, it doesn't change a thing. What you're doing is cherry-picking which parts of the Bible to follow (which is fine, I guess, since you probably just want to be a nice person), when I find that it makes more sense to reject everything in the Bible and then just go with treating people the way I want them to treat me. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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