Theistic Satanism / The Left Hand Path

[Enlightener]

HenryCD, Theistic Satanists do not subscribe to such ideas anymore that you do (and I know you don't). We're all ex Christians on this site, meaning we no longer believe in such tales or we'd still be following Yahweh and Jesus. If you read Diane Vera's words, you'll see that Satan, according to her beliefs, is as equally powerful if not more powerfu;l than Yahweh, and that He sets His followers free from the tyranny of Yahweh.

 

Also, Theistic Satanism gives tips to rid yourself of fears of Hell. I am now completely deprogrammed. It's a process that took me year to achieve.

 

"Also welcome here are people who are strongly considering leaving hardcore Christianity and exploring alternatives including theistic Satanism.

Appropriate topics here include not only Satanism, the occult, and comparative religion, but also ex-Christian-related topics, such as dealing with ultra-Christian parents, overcoming a lingering fear of hell and other after-effects of one's upbringing, and practical difficulties with either leaving or otherwise dealing with ultra-Christian relatives, neighbors, etc."

http://theisticsatanism.com/group/TSxhX.html

 

"This rite has the same purpose as other blasphemy rites - to help you rid yourself of unwanted unconscious baggage left over from your background. (See The purpose of blasphemy in Satanism.)

If you are from a Christian or Muslim background, it is hoped that this ritual - and the preparation for it - will help you get over such things as the fear of hell."

http://theisticsatanism.com/rituals/blasphemy/cautious.html

 

"When I speak of the ritual on this page as the "ultimate" rite of blasphemy for ex-Christians, I mean "ultimate" in the sense of involving the one sin which the Christian Bible claims will damn you irrevocably, with no hope of forgiveness. It's far from "ultimate" in terms of sheer sensationalistic shock value, though. From a purely secular point of view, I must admit it's pretty tame compared to most metal lyrics these days. [...]

 

The rite below will center around a solemn, formal ritual renunciation of all three persons of the Christian Trinity. Or, if you were brought up in a non-Trinitarian Christian sect (you heretic!!! -- just kidding), you can renounce each of the three persons (or whatever you believed they were) without thinking of them as a trinity.

Why is this such a big deal? According to the Christian Bible:

... Every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.  (Matthew 12:31-32)

and:

All the sins and blasphemies of men will be forgiven them. But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin.  (Mark 3:28-29)

 

Does this seem utterly silly to you? Yet, at the same time, does it also creep you out? Good! Therein lies the potential for a deep inner transformation -- at least if you happen to be an ex-Christian. (See The purpose of blasphemy in Satanism.) But, when you perform the rite, say your renunciation of the Trinity firmly -- do not waver! One of the benefits of the renunciation rite is that, thereafter, you can overcome a lot of irrational inhibitions by telling your subconscious mind that you are going to hell anyway. [...] Hence the ritual should be performed in such a way that, if Christian theology were true, you really would be damned irrevocably, with no hope of escape.

 

[...] The purpose of the renunciation rite is to help you banish any remaining purely irrational fears, after you have fully addressed your fears on a rational level by examining the arguments both for and against traditional Christian beliefs and making an informed decision against them."

http://theisticsatanism.com/rituals/blasphemy/renunciation.html

[bornagainathiest]

I see no real advantage to what you're offering Enlightener, other than (perhaps) some kind of lifestyle choice for those who really aren't interested in the facts or the truth.

 

You write that Theistic Satanism questions everything and dissects everything, yet you can provide no proof of what you're promoting, when asked to do so.  Well, agnostic science questions and dissects everything and is eminently testable, producing true knowledge about reality.

 

You write that TS is an opposite faith to Christianity.

If Christianity is dismantled by science, why bother with it's antithesis?  If Abiogenesis and Evolution adequately explain our existence and our natures, why bother invoking anything else when you have your answers?  If there are no universal truths to be found in Christianity, why invert that evidence-free paradigm and go for another equally untenable option like Satanism... it makes no sense?

 

Also, why bother with anything occult, hidden or secret?

Science and it's findings are freely availible to all, without any strings attached.  All that's needed is an open mind and a firm determination to discover the truth.  Dressing things up in supernaturalism and ritual is a retrograde step that muddies the waters and draws people away from the universal truths that science can clearly show them.

 

So surely this is a no-brainer, Enlightener?

 

Where's the advantage?

 

What's the point?

 

 

 

BAA

 

[Vigile]

As for PROOF that Satan is real... One needs to develop a relationship with Him and study,

 

Hmmm... where have I heard that before? 

 

[Guest Marty]

 

As you can see, Satanism is all about being free, responsibility and one's own God. For all those of you that are Atheists, please note that most Satanists are Atheistic. 

 

 

I am already "free, responsible, and my own god" without some mythological deity, why do I need Satan?  The deity is superfluous.  

 

Satanists can not be Atheistic if they worship a deity… Atheism= Without gods.

[Guest Marty]

 

As for PROOF that Satan is real... One needs to develop a relationship with Him and study,

 

Hmmm... where have I heard that before? 

 

 

 

Agreed.  He says he left christianity behind yet he still uses christian language and worships the christian god of evil...

[Enlightener]

Marty, yes, most Satanists are Atheists. This from the Church of Satan:

 

Why do Satanists worship The Devil?

We don’t. Satanists are atheists. We see the universe as being indifferent to us, and so all morals and values are subjective human constructions.

Our position is to be self-centered, with ourselves being the most important person (the “God”) of our subjective universe, so we are sometimes said to worship ourselves. Our current High Priest Gilmore calls this the step moving from being an atheist to being an “I-Theist.”

Satan to us is a symbol of pride, liberty and individualism, and it serves as an external metaphorical projection of our highest personal potential. We do not believe in Satan as a being or person.

http://churchofsatan.com/faq-fundamental-beliefs.php

 

They even go on to say that there is no such thing as Theistic Satanism but that's entirely false...

 

Is it Satanism or Devil worship?

By Geifodd ap Pwyll

In the nine long years that I've recognized myself as a Satanist, I've seen more pointless and pedantic arguments over the use of labels and semantics - among Satanists - than I'd care to count. It may seem very strange to some people (it certainly does to me), but one major bone of contention between different Satanists is the use of the term "Devil worship." In the 1960's and 1970's, Anton Szandor LaVey popularized a new idea of Satanism through his Church of Satan.

 

This was further enhanced through the publication of his Satanic Bible. LaVey's version of Satanism - which was inspired by the writings of Ragnar Redbeard, Mark Twain, Friedrich Nietzsche and H. L. Mencken - was, at least publically, a non-theistic philosophy. That is to say, LaVey gave the image that people in his church did not actually believe in Satan as a literal entity, and therefore did not worship Him religiously. Instead, "Satanism" for them meant worshiping your own carnal ego. LaVey dismissed all gods as being "creations of man" in The Satanic Bible - including the Devil - and he further suggested that no Satanist in their right mind would ever worship or pray to any "imaginary deity."Now it is a fact that LaVey's church was the very first public, above-ground Satanist organization ever to exist.

 

However, some of LaVey's followers - and "followers" is exactly what they are - have gone so far as to claim that "Satanism never existed" before the Church of Satan, and that it was "invented" by Anton LaVey. They will further suggest that the very word "Satanism" itself is LaVey's intellectual property, and that anyone who disagrees with his doctrines has "no right" to call him or herself a Satanist.That last part is blatantly false.

 

According to the Online Etymology Dictionary, the word "Satanist" first appeared in print in the year 1559. The term was applied to Protestant sects by their enemies - and it was used specifically to mean "worship of Satan." This meaning for the word has been carried over unto present day. If you go out on the street and shout the word "Satanism," most people who hear you will automatically think of "Satan worship." This is because five centuries are long enough to ingrain a specific word usage into any collective consciousness.

 

Furthermore, since the word "Satanist" is at least five centuries old, it exists in the public domain. Nobody owns a copyright on it, not even the Church of Satan. Anybody who claims that Satanism is LaVey's "intellectual property" is very much mistaken. Therefore, a person who believes in and worships Satan as a literal entity has every right to call him or herself a Satanist if they want to.

http://theisticsatanism.com/geifodd/satvsdw.html

[Guest Marty]

I still see it as clinging to the paradigm of christianity and offering nothing besides the opposite teachings of christianity.  I am already my own god already without silly rituals.  You are also selling what you call "Theistic Satanism"here, which cannot be Atheistic by definition.  You seem to not be entirely consistent...

 

I also do not consider myself the most important thing in the universe.  I wonder how many Satanists are Libertarians?  

 

Seriously, in my worldview, I am an earthling before I am a human, and I am a human before I am an individual.  I have no more claim to this planet than any other creature alive, and with the state of the environment and the world, any system that teaches I am the only thing that matters is very dangerous for all of life.  

 

I try to subscribe to a life of balance, where I try to measure all I do and consume with how it affects everything else.

[Enlightener]

I see that some of you have an issue with the fact Satan is mentioned in the Bible... It doesn't matter. Satan predates Christianity. What you see in the Bible, especially in the New Testament, is just the Bible's version of who Satan (or the Devil) is... As for Yahweh, he doesn't even exist in the sense El was a Canaanite God that came a long time before Yahweh did. Jews of old adopted El and turned him into Yahweh (Jehovah) whom they called "The Almighty". This is why the name "El" is associated with Yahweh but it is first and foremost Canaanite El's name. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_%28deity%29

 

That being said, a strong belief in an entity might make it exist on the astral plane. Yahweh might exist in that sense (a thoughtform created by man). Just because one leaves Christianity doesn't necessarily mean one no longer has a spiritual life. If you're happy and content with no god whatsoever, no ritual or spiritual practices, fine! It's alright! Ypour own spirit and inner strenght might be enough for you. But those who have a stronger spiritual calling might want to associate with any entity they like. Many ex Christians turn to Satan 'cause he offers freedom from bondage, gives strenght and even more!

 

Here is what an occult professor, EA Koetting, has to say about Satan. It's, of course, his view on Satan. Some like Diane Vera, would rank Him higher.

 

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=417724068337663&set=a.393244327452304.1073741830.184541071655965&type=1

[Guest Marty]

Enlightener: You have to change your name to Confused, because your belief is muddled. You've embraced something very dangerous. You don't want God as your enemy.

 

god, or the satan Enlightener worships, does not exist.  No need to fear what does not exist.

 

Another example of how Theistic Satanism is not helpful to those trying to leave christianity; it still subscribes to the supernatural.

 

The scientific method is the only way to truly pluck out how the world around us works.

[Enlightener]

HenryCD... Are you suggesting that Diane Vera that I quoted, an expert on the subject, is also confused? Have you read what Diane Vera wrote on the topic? I do not recognize Yahweh as God... Yahweh is a god that doesn't even exist. In my previous post I explain why he doesn't truly exist. Satan, however, IMO, is God of this World (as explained by Ms.Vera) and truly dioes exist.

[Enlightener]

You may not believe in magick or the supernatural but if an ex Christian does and it helps them, much power to them! You can't really find until you try it out.

 

Here is a video that might help you understand a bit better what I'm trying to say.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXu-aKMxg2I

[Guest Marty]

I see that some of you have an issue with the fact Satan is mentioned in the Bible... It doesn't matter. Satan predates Christianity. What you see in the Bible, especially in the New Testament, is just the Bible's version of who Satan (or the Devil) is... As for Yahweh, he doesn't even exist in the sense El was a Canaanite God that came a long time before Yahweh did. Jews of old adopted El and turned him into Yahweh (Jehovah) whom they called "The Almighty". This is why the name "El" is associated with Yahweh but it is first and foremost Canaanite El's name. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_%28deity%29

 

That being said, a strong belief in an entity might make it exist on the astral plane. Yahweh might exist in that sense (a thoughtform created by man). Just because one leaves Christianity doesn't necessarily mean one no longer has a spiritual life. If you're happy and content with no god whatsoever, no ritual or spiritual practices, fine! It's alright! Ypour own spirit and inner strenght might be enough for you. But those who have a stronger spiritual calling might want to associate with any entity they like. Many ex Christians turn to Satan 'cause he offers freedom from bondage, gives strenght and even more!

 

Here is what an occult professor, EA Koetting, has to say about Satan. It's, of course, his view on Satan. Some like Diane Vera, would rank Him higher.

 

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=417724068337663&set=a.393244327452304.1073741830.184541071655965&type=1

 

It's more fundamental than that.  I have an issue with deities.  I have an issue with impossible, unprovable claims.  

 

This may be the forum to discuss spirituality, but you are starting to feel like a evangelizer selling their wares, especially since you are becoming internally inconsistent with your claims as you try to skirt around our objections...

[Guest Marty]

HenryCD... Are you suggesting that Diane Vera that I quoted, an expert on the subject, is also confused? Have you read what Diane Vera wrote on the topic? I do not recognize Yahweh as God... Yahweh is a god that doesn't even exist. In my previous post I explain why he doesn't truly exist. Satan, however, IMO, is God of this World (as explained by Ms.Vera) and truly dioes exist.

 

Explain how this statement is in harmony with: "Satanists are Atheists".

[Enlightener]

I still see it as clinging to the paradigm of christianity and offering nothing besides the opposite teachings of christianity.  I am already my own god already without silly rituals.  You are also selling what you call "Theistic Satanism"here, which cannot be Atheistic by definition.  You seem to not be entirely consistent...

 

I also do not consider myself the most important thing in the universe.  I wonder how many Satanists are Libertarians?  

 

Seriously, in my worldview, I am an earthling before I am a human.  I have no more claim to this planet than any other creature alive, and with the state of the environment and the world, any system that teaches I am the only thing that matters is very dangerous for all of life.  

 

I try to subscribe to a life of balance, where I try to measure all I do and consume with how it affects everything else.

 

 

 

Marty, Theistic Satanism, the path I have chosen, is obviously Theistic. Atheistic Satanism aka LaVeyan Satanism is Atheistic. I have in a post above quoted the Atheistic stance of the Church of Satan and the Theistic stance of Geifodd ap Pwyll. Please read carefully.

[Enlightener]

I never contradicted myself. I am not evangelizing. I am just explaining what Theistic Satanism is and answering questions. Please read carefully. I said I am a Theistic Satanist, meaning I see Satan as a literal entity, worship him as such (God of this World) and have a relationship with Him. I also said those who are Atheists may want to look into Atheistic Satanism or LaVeyan Satanism as practised by the Church of Satan. Atheistic or LaVeyan Satanists see Satan as a symbol, a metaphor for the repressed forces of nature, the true carnal nature of man. Do you now understand the difference between Theistic Satanism and Atheistic Satanism?

 

The Church of Satan is Atheistic. Most Satanists are Atheistic.

Why do Satanists worship The Devil?

We don’t. Satanists are atheists. We see the universe as being indifferent to us, and so all morals and values are subjective human constructions.

Our position is to be self-centered, with ourselves being the most important person (the “God”) of our subjective universe, so we are sometimes said to worship ourselves. Our current High Priest Gilmore calls this the step moving from being an atheist to being an “I-Theist.”

Satan to us is a symbol of pride, liberty and individualism, and it serves as an external metaphorical projection of our highest personal potential. We do not believe in Satan as a being or person.

http://churchofsatan.com/faq-fundamental-beliefs.php

 

But Diane Vera and many others are Theistic:

http://theisticsatanism.com/Muse/summary.html

http://theisticsatanism.com/geifodd/satvsdw.html

http://churchofleviathandotcom1.wordpress.com/

[Enlightener]

Ravenstar... Marty asked me a question and I replied. His question pertained to the difference between Theistic vs. Atheistic Satanism. Why do you feel I talked you down and took people as idiots, then ordered me to leave like I have orders to take from you? Cool down...

[Enlightener]

By the way, this is what I first posted when discussing Atheistic Satanism:

 

As you can see, Satanism is all about being free, responsibility and one's own God. For all those of you that are Atheists, please note that most Satanists are Atheistic. Atheistic Satanism aka LaVeyan Satanism is the most popular branch of Satanism. You do NOT need to be a Theist in order to be a Satanist. I made a thread on Theistic Satanism since it's my calling and what I've been practicing for 6 years now (while slowly getting out of Christianity) but yeah... Most Satanists are Atheists. Here are some Atheistic Satanism resources:

 

http://www.youtube.com/user/satanicinternational/videos

http://www.satanicinternationalnetwork.com/

http://www.churchofsatan.com/

 

Now that I explained to you the difference between the two main types of Satanism, and that I gave you much info and links, I'll just focus on other threads. If anyone has anymore question, I might answer them. Thx!

[mymistake]

Can we give him a break?  Okay he has religion.  It has the same problems that other religions have.  But this is the section for non-Christian religion.

[MerryG]

Can we give him a break?  Okay he has religion.  It has the same problems that other religions have.  But this is the section for non-Christian religion.

 

I agree. My first reaction was to challenge the guy, but that's because my head was in Lions Den territory.

 

Enlightener's religion may be nothing but the flip side of christianity, but at least he's answering questions, offering interesting links, and not ... er, condemning us to hell or whatever the Satanist equivalent might be.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

 

Can we give him a break?  Okay he has religion.  It has the same problems that other religions have.  But this is the section for non-Christian religion.

 

I agree. My first reaction was to challenge the guy, but that's because my head was in Lions Den territory.

 

Enlightener's religion may be nothing but the flip side of christianity, but at least he's answering questions, offering interesting links, and not ... er, condemning us to hell or whatever the Satanist equivalent might be.

 

That was my first reaction, too, MerryG.  BAA has challenged him to a bowdy-how in the Lion's Den but so far Enlightener hasn't accepted.  I guess I'll have no more to say on the subject in this forum.

[florduh]

 

I don't think a negative religion should be encouraged on this site. 

 

 

Sorry, this forum allows people to take an uncritical look at any unsupported belief. All such constructs are protected from any real scrutiny in this area. Not my rule, but a rule nonetheless.

 

The "Satanist" must be treated no differently than the Buddhist, Wiccan, or Scientologist.

[Ravenstar]

This is true, it just came across in a lot of posts as proselytizing - I'm more than happy to learn about things and to allow each person their beliefs, but being preached at irritates me. Each to their own… but I have my own experience with theistic satanists, not terribly positive ones. I rather like atheistic satanists though.

 

I apologize.

[mymistake]

I see that some of you have an issue with the fact Satan is mentioned in the Bible... It doesn't matter. Satan predates Christianity. What you see in the Bible, especially in the New Testament, is just the Bible's version of who Satan (or the Devil) is... As for Yahweh, he doesn't even exist in the sense El was a Canaanite God that came a long time before Yahweh did. Jews of old adopted El and turned him into Yahweh (Jehovah) whom they called "The Almighty". This is why the name "El" is associated with Yahweh but it is first and foremost Canaanite El's name. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_%28deity%29

 

That being said, a strong belief in an entity might make it exist on the astral plane. Yahweh might exist in that sense (a thoughtform created by man). Just because one leaves Christianity doesn't necessarily mean one no longer has a spiritual life. If you're happy and content with no god whatsoever, no ritual or spiritual practices, fine! It's alright! Ypour own spirit and inner strenght might be enough for you. But those who have a stronger spiritual calling might want to associate with any entity they like. Many ex Christians turn to Satan 'cause he offers freedom from bondage, gives strenght and even more!

 

Here is what an occult professor, EA Koetting, has to say about Satan. It's, of course, his view on Satan. Some like Diane Vera, would rank Him higher.

 

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=417724068337663&set=a.393244327452304.1073741830.184541071655965&type=1

 

 

If you don't mind indulging a non-believer may I ask who would professor Koetting rank higher than Satan?

[par4dcourse]

Chill Henry. You're too new at this to take on spirits and demons talk. The brainwashing hasn't let go yet, but it will. Hang in there and above all don't worry about this guy.

[florduh]

If you need to read the rules of this protected forum again, please do so. No beliefs may be criticized here, and personal attacks are also prohibited.

 

(Views here do not necessarily represent those of mods charged to enforce the rules. But enforced they will be.)