Woke up with Keith Green in my head

[♦ Fuego ♦]

I had the song "No Compromise" playing in my head this morning. I was thinking over how he was one of the first artists I had as a new believer, and how I was drawn not so much to his style as to the revolutionary fervor he had. I didn't find that in church, but there were believers like me that wanted the fire. That stayed true for 30 years for me. I thought I had finally found it in some charismatic/pentecostal services where I felt power come on me like I'd heard described in the Shaker and Quaker movements. I'd already heard a voice speak to me clearly which was amazing to me and ignored as fantasy by other believers. 9 years after the services where I felt power, came the cold reality that I'd been lied to (first by a man claiming amazing miracles). I spent the next year fasting and praying trying to find answers as to why he would even need to make up stories...if the promises were true. That was the same year the polygamist cults from Oklahoma were in the news. I wondered aloud to myself how anyone could believe such stupid things, then realized with chagrin that I had believed some pretty stupid things, and been kept tricked for 30 years. Then I asked myself "I wonder what else I've believed that is a lie". I felt myself squirm inside because finally I had reached the core - was any of it true? I began asking questions that I'd shelved over the years: Why is the god of the bible so primitive and cruel? Why is he such a jerk to people? Why is he so interested in blood? Why the magic fruit tree and talking snake (not Satan, a snake), which was clearly a set-up? Why does he bless genocide? Why does he wink at mass rape, or make a victim marry the rapist? Why was the tower of Babel even a thing, when we build skyscrapers higher than they could, and we have airplanes that go above the clouds, and we've been to the moon? Why the conflicting genealogies of Jesus? Why didn't you tell me I was being lied to by the pastor for the last 9 years? What did I feel in the services if it wasn't you? What voice spoke to me repeatedly if it wasn't you?

 

I got only silence. I began searching for the concept of "ex-Christian" and found this site. A month later I was an ex-Christian.

 

When I heard Keith in my head this morning, the words held the same revolutionary fervor they had back then. I still have a burning flame for the truth, which is why I can't stomach much politics I see today from either camp. I remembered a scene from a film where a young revolutionary Vietnamese girl goes with two men into the fields to help with the Revolution only to be raped by them. Then she saw the difference between what was spoken and the reality. All the promises sounded wonderful, until it came time to collect on them. Then there were only excuses and other believers telling me to trust.

 

Next month will be my 10th year as an ex-Christian. I've learned so much about the lies of the scriptures in that time, things I wish I had known back in 1980 when I was a shy superstitious boy with a revolutionary bent. Sorry Keith, you were tricked like I was. I still hear your fervor and desire for a real god, instead of the good-as-dead one for which churches settle. I wish all of our fervor had done some good. I hope that I can still do some good with the time I have remaining.

 

 

[Vigile]

I was drawn to Green when I was a believer too. I guess I've always been someone who demanded something real. In the xian world, Green was about as close as it got in terms of sincerity. At least that's how it appeared. 

[Guest Ann]

I also loved Keith Green. After I saw your post, I youtubed his rendition of the Easter Song.  Still beautiful and amazing to me and one of my favorite songs. He was a talented singer/musician who had that rare gift of translating feelings into music. I used to not be able to listen to the christian music I was raised on because it felt like all lies....but time does heal some wounds and thankfully now I can enjoy Keith, 2nd Chapter, Phil Keaggy, etc...without the oogie feelings inside. It's music and I refuse to let christians ruin that one for me too;)

[ConsiderTheSource]

.....and "god" crashed Keith's plane for some "higher purpose", right?

[hockeyfan70]

Keith Green, Rich Mullins and Andrew Peterson were the three guys who I felt were the most authentic when it came to Xianity.

[Guest Ann]

5 hours ago, ConsiderTheSource said:

....and "god" crashed Keith's plane for some "higher purpose", right?

Yep. I know what you mean......I was a kid when it happened.  It was sad. 11people died including two of Keith's small children. The comments I heard from the adults at the time were confusing to me.  "god has a plan," "god is in control," "god will use this for his glory,"  My dad even commented that he had prayed Keith's wife didn't lose they baby she was pregnant with at the time from grief.  Their comments did not provide any comfort and my feeling at the time was...."This is some dark shit."

[Guest Ann]

5 hours ago, hockeyfan70 said:

Keith Green, Rich Mullins and Andrew Peterson were the three guys who I felt were the most authentic when it came to Xianity.

Or maybe they believed the lie more adamantly.

[Vigile]

6 hours ago, Ann said:

Or maybe they believed the lie more adamantly.

 

That's the issue. They seemed sincere, as I was too sincere, but the reality is we just bought into the virus on a deeper level than our peers and as a result, probably suffered from it more than they. On the plus side, after hanging out here for the past decade, a pattern has emerged that appears to indicate those most serious are more apt to question their faith because they demand something true and real, not just symbolic. Thus, it's probably an advantage in terms of deconversion. 

[♦ Fuego ♦]

4 hours ago, Vigile said:

On the plus side, after hanging out here for the past decade, a pattern has emerged that appears to indicate those most serious are more apt to question their faith because they demand something true and real, not just symbolic. Thus, it's probably an advantage in terms of deconversion.

 

Yes. Bingo.

[★ Citsonga ★]

On 10/18/2017 at 10:35 PM, hockeyfan70 said:

Keith Green, Rich Mullins and Andrew Peterson were the three guys who I felt were the most authentic when it came to Xianity.

 

I'm not familiar with Andrew Peterson beyond having seen the name, but I agree that Keith Green and Rich Mullins both seemed very authentic and sincere. They both also had very tragic deaths. Keith had already died before I heard of him, but I saw Rich in concert once and I still remember where I was when Rich died and the phone call I got from a friend informing me of it.

 

On 10/19/2017 at 4:04 AM, Ann said:

Or maybe they believed the lie more adamantly.

 

On 10/19/2017 at 10:34 AM, Vigile said:

 

That's the issue. They seemed sincere, as I was too sincere, but the reality is we just bought into the virus on a deeper level than our peers and as a result, probably suffered from it more than they. On the plus side, after hanging out here for the past decade, a pattern has emerged that appears to indicate those most serious are more apt to question their faith because they demand something true and real, not just symbolic. Thus, it's probably an advantage in terms of deconversion. 

 

Quite true. Same here.

 

 

[Guest Ann]

Had to look up Andrew Peterson and Rich Mullins....christ I'm old! Didn't realize I had basically stopped going to church by 1990, yet clung on to christian beliefs for a good 8-10 more years before really questioning and de-converting. I knew of Rich Mullins's songs, but not him. Maybe it's because I'm from the west coast, or maybe because my parents stopped running our church's bookstore/music by 1983.

[★ Citsonga ★]

Since Rich Mullins has been brought up, I am reminded that I recently found out that his tragic death was very instrumental in planting the seeds of doubt that led to the deconversion of former Christian radio host Seth Andrews, who is now known as The Thinking Atheist. Here is an excerpt from Seth's comments in an interview:

 

Quote

The first real seeds of doubt were planted in my own life after the 1997 death of Christian songwriter Rich Mullins. As the host of a religious morning show on KXOJ-FM in Tulsa, I was charged one day to inform our listeners that Mullins had been tossed out of his Jeep and horribly killed on the highway by an oncoming truck. As I spoke words of comfort to our listeners and callers, I struggled to reconcile the notion that the God of Matthew 10, the one who considered us worth “more than many sparrows,” would design or abide the taking of Mullins’ earthly life in such a pointless, gruesome manner. Why would God propel Rich Mullins into the spotlight merely to plunge millions of fans into mourning and leave his family and friends to grieve over a closed casket? And would the funeral even have been necessary if Rich had only been wearing his seatbelt?

 

Source: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2013/02/10/from-christian-broadcaster-to-thinking-atheist-an-interview-with-seth-andrews/

 

[Guest Ann]

@Citsonga  Didn't know that...thanks for the info.

I've used up my likes for today......

[hockeyfan70]

On 10/21/2017 at 9:10 AM, Citsonga said:

 

I'm not familiar with Andrew Peterson beyond having seen the name, but I agree that Keith Green and Rich Mullins both seemed very authentic and sincere. They both also had very tragic deaths. Keith had already died before I heard of him, but I saw Rich in concert once and I still remember where I was when Rich died and the phone call I got from a friend informing me of it.

 

 

 

Quite true. Same here.

 

 

I got to know Andrew a little bit because he and a bunch of friends did a christmas tour every year and they came to our church two years in a row and I was the person putting it all together. He borrowed my car to go to Starbucks before the concert. Great guy. He has done a couple Rich Mullins covers that are really good.

 

One of my favorite concerts ever was a Rich Mullins concert. The World As Best As I Remember It tour.

[L.B.]

Mullins is remembered by most Evangy types because Amy Grunt had a couple of hits with songs of his.

 

He is also remembered for "Awesome God", one of the stupidest songs imaginable. The lyrics are awful - and Mullins SAID so.

 

He actually admitted that he wrote it because he knew it would sell due to its rah-rah chorus and awful bible-ish sounding verses.

 

He is ignored for a deep spiritual journey that ultimately was leading him to reject evangelical Protestantism and become a Roman Catholic.

 

He is also marginalized because he smoked and drank and struggled with addictions to both.

 

It's par for the course in JeezusLand. They will take his songs, earn millions on his work, even talk about him after he died like they had always just loved him so much, but his actual life - fuck him.

[♦ Fuego ♦]

And tonight one of his catchy songs is going through my head over and over. Of course, I had played it on my tape recorder (remember those?) a zillion times back then. Even played it at work when I was a dishwasher.

I also was reminded today that I can still "feel the spirit" and can preach at the drop of a hat. I was writing a blog post (that I never actually post anywhere) and was reaming out the evangelicals over their support of Trump, then I started in with various scriptures about why this is evil and zing, started feeling like "the spirit" was vibrating in me. Been a while, but I know that well. Very interesting to experience. Makes me wonder what it really is. Can still speak in tongues easily, and sometimes do at work to the entertainment of my coworker. It's usually when I'm lifting something really heavy.

 

Also, will be singing a Christian song at an Xmas dinner. It's a mild one called The Prayer, famous by Andrea Bocelli and Celene Dion (or Katharine McPhee, the version I like). I try to avoid singing anything pro-Christian but was asked to do this duet.

[Guest Ann]

@Fuego The tape recorder...ah the memories.  I can still remember listening to the soundtrack of Grease in my neighbor friend's van on 8 track. The super 70's:) I'm glad you reconnected with "the spirit"....inspiration feels good. I remember watching a documentary (I think it was DMT The Spirit Molecule, but not sure) where the brain was scanned while someone was speaking in tongues. Very interesting and what I remember a certain part of the brain was super active during that time. I think the language center, but again, can't find the doc, apologies. Anyway, you are able to activate a certain part of your brain when speaking in tongues. I think it must be a skill as I was never able to attain that "gift" and I have poor language skills, so maybe there is a connection between having really good language skills and the ability to speak in tongues?  As far as feeling "the spirit" I never understood that one either...I was always jealous of other "good christians" who could "feel" god while I worried something was wrong because I could not feel "him."  So maybe another skill your brain has that I do not?

[hockeyfan70]

22 hours ago, Fuego said:

And tonight one of his catchy songs is going through my head over and over. Of course, I had played it on my tape recorder (remember those?) a zillion times back then. Even played it at work when I was a dishwasher.

I also was reminded today that I can still "feel the spirit" and can preach at the drop of a hat. I was writing a blog post (that I never actually post anywhere) and was reaming out the evangelicals over their support of Trump, then I started in with various scriptures about why this is evil and zing, started feeling like "the spirit" was vibrating in me. Been a while, but I know that well. Very interesting to experience. Makes me wonder what it really is. Can still speak in tongues easily, and sometimes do at work to the entertainment of my coworker. It's usually when I'm lifting something really heavy.

 

Also, will be singing a Christian song at an Xmas dinner. It's a mild one called The Prayer, famous by Andrea Bocelli and Celene Dion (or Katharine McPhee, the version I like). I try to avoid singing anything pro-Christian but was asked to do this duet.

Which song? My favorite songs of his were If I Stand, The Love Of God and Hold Me Jesus.

[♦ Fuego ♦]

The one today was Stained Glass. "We are like windows stained with colors of the rainbow.."