Mothernature Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 Ugg. I just had to sit through a sermon about this. This is one of the stories that I have never believed to be true. The priest started off by saying, despite all the critics and literature out there he believes that this story is historically true, not a myth, parable or legend. I could see my husband nodding as if that clarifies it. 😒. At first I thought ok let's see what he presents and what his argument is but instead he just talked about the story as Jonah trying to run from God and how God brought him back. There was nothing concrete just his opinion. No mention of how Jonah could possibly be swallowed by a whale when a whales esophagus is not even big enough to swallow fish! So I'm shaking my head in disbelief and rolling my eyes while my husband is nodding approval. 😡 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disillusioned Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 38 minutes ago, Mothernature said: No mention of how Jonah could possibly be swallowed by a whale when a whales esophagus is not even big enough to swallow fish! Um, I don't want to be that guy, but I'm pretty sure it was a big fish, not a whale. And we all know that that makes the story much more plausible. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geezer Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 It's definitely a "fishy" story for sure. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdelsolray Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 That story is proselytizing wrapped in fiction with a small dose of (likely) historical accuracy (e.g., places, tribal conflict). The Bible contains many stories which use this literary formula. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 Anybody else think it was strange that Nineveh was about 900 km (over 500 miles) from the ocean? Sure the Tigris river goes all the way up but a whale is going to swim 900 km of winding river and not get beached or lost? The guy who wrote the story didn't know about the geography of Nineveh. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted January 22, 2018 Super Moderator Share Posted January 22, 2018 I think it was a "great fish." Clearly allegory but many Christians seem bent on making things absurdly literal thus obscuring any larger spiritual teaching. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator LogicalFallacy Posted January 22, 2018 Moderator Share Posted January 22, 2018 "17 Now the Lord had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah. And Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights." Jonah 1:17 (KJV) New Translations make it a whale. I think the whale/fish argument is irrelevant as the writers probably didn't know the difference. It swam in the sea therefore fish, much like bats fly therefore birds. Note the time of three days and three nights pops up n several stories in the bible - the most notable being Jesus resurrection. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedge_Rat Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 That used to be me. In a Brio magazine (a magazine Focus on the Family makes for girls) I read that not only was it entirely possible for Jonah to have been "in the belly of a whale," but that there had been confirmed cases of this happening to other people.** No names or sources or anything, of course. But I believed it, even got in an argument with someone in school about it. In highschool. I feel that's excusable... not that highschoolers are stupid, it's just that you're a lot more likely to believe the authority figures in your life (not obey them, just believe them).... But I still believed it in college. And after... probably only gave it up after I gave up believing all of it. What's interesting, to me anyway, is that if Focus on the Family had said, "Well, it doesn't happen in ordinary circumstances, that's why this was a miracle, because God had to change nature to make it happen," I (and probably everyone else who credulously read the magazine) would have had no problem with it. Just a miracle that was no stranger than anything else in the Bible. But they felt that giving fake historical evidence was necessary, somehow. Why? **Where they survived and were able to tell other people about it, I mean. It makes a difference. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
☆ DarkBishop ☆ Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 ooooo i feel your pain. i'm off the hook for church now tho. my wife has found a church to go to close by and two of my kids go with her. Me and my athiest son who is also a member of ex-c get to stay behind for a much needed late morning nap :-) that one is on my list of most absurd biblical stories as well. right along with the creation, tower of babel, and the flood of Noah. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator TABA Posted January 22, 2018 Moderator Share Posted January 22, 2018 Hey DB, it’s good to know your son has joined us: I hope he introduces himself soon - or has he already done that? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
☆ DarkBishop ☆ Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 @ThereAndBackAgain no I dont think he has. he has been here for awhile. I think he just watches right now. I will encourage him to introduce himself but he will when he is ready. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Joshpantera Posted January 23, 2018 Moderator Share Posted January 23, 2018 4 hours ago, DarkBishop said: @ThereAndBackAgain no I dont think he has. he has been here for awhile. I think he just watches right now. I will encourage him to introduce himself but he will when he is ready. Missed your posts, buddy. I haven't seen any in a while. Good to hear about your son. My girlfriend apparently has some friends from the SDA camp of questioners who read through ex-C, silently reading and considering what goes on around here. Perhaps they'll join in conversation at some point. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geezer Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 Many of these myths came out of the Sumarian culture, the oldest known civilization on earth, a full thousand years before they began appearing in Egyptian & Persian cultures. And then the Israelites modified them & claimed them as their own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mothernature Posted January 23, 2018 Author Share Posted January 23, 2018 On 21/01/2018 at 12:15 PM, disillusioned said: Um, I don't want to be that guy, but I'm pretty sure it was a big fish, not a whale. And we all know that that makes the story much more plausible. Well I stand corrected. It must be a true story then!😁 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mothernature Posted January 23, 2018 Author Share Posted January 23, 2018 @DarkBishop lucky you. I'm jealous. Wait I'm not allowed to be jealous. 😒 Do your 2 kids go to church by choice? How do you interact with them around Biblical things (ie. Do you keep your opinion to yourself or do you refute things they say, or suggest flaws in the stories)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mothernature Posted January 23, 2018 Author Share Posted January 23, 2018 2 hours ago, Geezer said: Many of these myths came out of the Sumarian culture, the oldest known civilization on earth, a full thousand years before they began appearing in Egyptian & Persian cultures. And then the Israelites modified them & claimed them as their own. Do you have a link to the origins of this myth? That would be interesting to read about! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geezer Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 On 1/23/2018 at 11:36 AM, Mothernature said: Do you have a link to the origins of this myth? That would be interesting to read about! Check youtube and search for Sumerian Culture. Here is another reference http://history-world.org/sumerian_culture.htm This reference is likely more accurate than youtube. This is a pretty fascinating subject in history. Millions of tablets that supposedly record the Sumerian culture and history have survived and that is amazing in itself. I also want to advise you that you will find a lot of myths about the Anunnaki when you explore Sumerian history. The Sumerian's were supposedly a highly advanced society that existed somewhere around 4000 BC.. They are supposedly credited with inventing the wheel, an alphabet, mathematics, and tools. In their tablets they supposedly credit all their accomplishment to the Anunnaki, a life form from another planet. I know that sounds ridiculous and that is why it's accepted as a myth. But their tablets supposedly indicate the Anunnaki taught them the things they know. Most scholars accept the Anunnaki as a mythical story, much like the Bible itself. There likely were other cultures in the area that influenced the Sumerians and their stories that have been lost in antiquity. The tablets also supposedly say these Anunnaki tribesmen were giants. The males were estimated to be 10 to 12 ft tall and the females 8-9 feet tall. That is supposed to be the source of the giants referenced in Genesis. These giants supposedly came down from the sky. And they ruled over the Sumerians for hundreds of years. That part of their story, obviously, sounds like myth. But it supposedly is written in the tablets that have been found. I am not a UFO enthusiast, or a fan of the History channels UFO stuff either, but I found this whole Anunnaki, story an interesting myth. Ignoring the Anunnaki element, the Sumerian culture is a fascinating study on it's own. And it appears they are the most likely source for many of the myths found in Genesis. If you look into this, I'd been interested on your take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsathoggua9 Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 Yeah, this is one of the stories that, even as a child, I found to be completely implausible. It was actually a bit distressing to me that quite a number of adults took it as literal truth. Nutty! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
☆ DarkBishop ☆ Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 7 hours ago, Mothernature said: @DarkBishop lucky you. I'm jealous. Wait I'm not allowed to be jealous. 😒 Do your 2 kids go to church by choice? How do you interact with them around Biblical things (ie. Do you keep your opinion to yourself or do you refute things they say, or suggest flaws in the stories)? my other two kids go by choice. I raised them to believe. I was a preacher for most of their lives. And sometimes I do point out the flaws but that is limited. I try to respect my wifes right to freedom of religion even though I dont believe anymore. She has just as much right to teach the kids Chritianity as I do to say the opposite. But if I do it to much i'm sure divorce would be in my near future. I put a word or two in there from time to time tho 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wertbag Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 Of course its possible, I've seen multiple documentaries showing this. There was one called "Pinocchio" which clearly showed multiple people in a whale, or the more resent "finding nemo" which made it crystal clear you could be swallowed and spat back out. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disillusioned Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 On 23/01/2018 at 12:29 PM, Mothernature said: Well I stand corrected. It must be a true story then!😁 Now you're getting it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wertbag Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 On 22/01/2018 at 5:34 AM, Mothernature said: No mention of how Jonah could possibly be swallowed by a whale when a whales esophagus is not even big enough to swallow fish! Had to look this one up and it seems to be half correct. There are filter feeder whales who have tiny throats but then there are toothed whales like the blue whale who eat and swallow whole squid. Experts say it would be possible to be swallowed but as their stomachs and lungs are completely separate you would survive only as long as you could hold your breath. The only gas you would find in the digestive tract is methane. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
★ Citsonga ★ Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 On 1/21/2018 at 7:23 PM, mymistake said: Anybody else think it was strange that Nineveh was about 900 km (over 500 miles) from the ocean? Sure the Tigris river goes all the way up but a whale is going to swim 900 km of winding river and not get beached or lost? The guy who wrote the story didn't know about the geography of Nineveh. To be fair, the story doesn't say anything about the whale/fish being anywhere near Nineveh. It just has the whale/fish regurgitating Jonah onto land and then Jonah going to Nineveh. Anyway, as I skimmed back over the story for the first time in years, something did stand out to me that I hadn't thought of before. Look at these verses in the first chapter: 4 Then the Lord sent a great wind on the sea, and such a violent storm arose that the ship threatened to break up. 5 All the sailors were afraid and each cried out to his own god. And they threw the cargo into the sea to lighten the ship. I'm no sailor, but wouldn't it be a bad thing to lighten the ship in a storm? I would think that would surely make it easier for the waves to flip the ship over. Unless I'm missing something, the idea to lighten the ship seems quite stupid. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wertbag Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 14 hours ago, Citsonga said: I'm no sailor, but wouldn't it be a bad thing to lighten the ship in a storm? I would think that would surely make it easier for the waves to flip the ship over. Unless I'm missing something, the idea to lighten the ship seems quite stupid. If your boat is heavily laden then it sits low in the water which makes it more likely to take on water and easier to swamp. A light boat sits higher so can ride the waves better. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
★ Citsonga ★ Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 4 hours ago, Wertbag said: If your boat is heavily laden then it sits low in the water which makes it more likely to take on water and easier to swamp. A light boat sits higher so can ride the waves better. Good point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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