Energy and Consent

[Leo]

Hey all,

 

Someone I know who also senses energies / sends out vibes mentioned something the other day -- consent. He does stuff they call pranic healing and other things I don't know anything about, but anyway, he brought up the idea of getting informed consent before we go sending people positive vibes, or in his case he does the remote reiki and prana healings, something I don't really know too much about.

 

But anyway, this makes sense to me; what if someone doesn't want that energy? Maybe they're a skeptic, and if they end up feeling some vibe it might freak them out. Or someone just needs to stay in a darker place for the time, so sending a ball of warmth or light, if you can see, isn't something they want?

 

I got to thinking about it and it resonates with me. I don't like it if someone comes up to me and physically grabs me / tries to drag me across the street, as a move to "help" the blind guy, maybe I was standing there waiting for someone. Or at minimum would have appreciated being asked. So what do you all think? Do you think more attention should be paid to consent when it comes to even just sending energies? Do you guys already do this?

 

I actually feel kinda bad now, because I've always just reflexively sent out positive energy when someone seemed like they needed it, before I even knew the words for it, or was hanging with the skeptics and trying to be one.

 

People are in charge of their universe, I just don't think I have the right to assume what energy they would want or not want.

[midniterider]

2 hours ago, Leo said:

Hey all,

 

Someone I know who also senses energies / sends out vibes mentioned something the other day -- consent. He does stuff they call pranic healing and other things I don't know anything about, but anyway, he brought up the idea of getting informed consent before we go sending people positive vibes, or in his case he does the remote reiki and prana healings, something I don't really know too much about.

 

But anyway, this makes sense to me; what if someone doesn't want that energy? Maybe they're a skeptic, and if they end up feeling some vibe it might freak them out. Or someone just needs to stay in a darker place for the time, so sending a ball of warmth or light, if you can see, isn't something they want?

 

I got to thinking about it and it resonates with me. I don't like it if someone comes up to me and physically grabs me / tries to drag me across the street, as a move to "help" the blind guy, maybe I was standing there waiting for someone. Or at minimum would have appreciated being asked. So what do you all think? Do you think more attention should be paid to consent when it comes to even just sending energies? Do you guys already do this?

 

I actually feel kinda bad now, because I've always just reflexively sent out positive energy when someone seemed like they needed it, before I even knew the words for it, or was hanging with the skeptics and trying to be one.

 

People are in charge of their universe, I just don't think I have the right to assume what energy they would want or not want.

 

Wicca/pagan literature I've read warns people not to cast spells on people even if it's a positive one. Not sure I care one way or the other. If sending energy is a real thing then a skeptic may have a psychic barrier of non-belief around them anyway (lol). So unwanted vibes wont be a problem. If vibes are simply imagination then they wont do anything. Again, no problem.

 

I dont really ask people if I can smile at them. I just do. Some people may be in nasty moods and not appreciate it but I dont care. I dont feel like I've intruded on their space by smiling at them. Sending energy may be similar.  I think people like to help others though most of the time I might just say, "Wow that sucks" or "I hope you feel better." I dont usually make a special effort to give them some positive energy. I think it's laudable that you care enough to take the time and expend the energy to do that for someone. 

 

Maybe you could split the difference and say, "I offer this gift of positive light energy to so-and-so. If they choose to decline it, then please allow someone else to have it who needs it or wants it." Or, "I make available these positive vibes for so-and-so to take and use if they like." Then you're not forcing it on them. 

[Leo]

Hey I really like that!

 

I was just kind of torn because I generally don't tell people I'm doing it too, sounds kind of arrogant like "I'll pray you change to what I like," or some other religious thing. My friend brought it up, asked if I did, I explained how I always kind of have, but would never tell due to not wanting to be seen as "better than you" like the dogmatic types, or of course people that will think you're a nut or a heretic, when I still was Christian. That's when he asked what I thought about consent. What you suggest is a really neat idea, I love that!

I'm going to pass it on to him. I did try to read about the stuff he does, but it seemed a lot more mumbo jumbo-ish, like church, than the natural reflexive energy. But then again he's been taught / has studied, and I am I guess the energy version of the untrained musician who has no knowledge of proper technique or theory but still plays and sounds pretty good.

 

I just saw him ask another guy in our meetup group of atheists etc. if he could do some remote pranic healing. 

 

Anyway, love what you said, I think it's cool.

[♦ Fuego ♦]

I went through Reiki training, and have had mixed reactions to it. I have sometimes done this without asking when someone has expressed feeling ill. When someone is totally cold to the idea, there is no point in trying. My sister-in-law insisted that I try to help her husband with it, but he had his shields up on max, and was pissed that she even asked me. I felt nothing at all.

 

But then again, I usually don't feel anything, even when others have reacted. During my training, the teacher was able to describe what I'd done though she had her eyes closed. Then again, that is part of the martial art she practices also. And during the class session afterward, a student was lying on a table and we all were doing what we'd been taught. I was probably 10 paces away when she sat up and looked at me. She said I kept feeling waves of heat from that direction. So that is about all the reaction I've had to it. My wife can apparently send energy effectively, and our mutual friend feels it powerfully. Nothing from me though. I honestly stopped trying much, and don't practice it anymore. I did seem to have one strong positive reaction to doing it on myself, but only once.

[florduh]

Fear not. Nobody will ever know if you sent them "energy."

 

Knowing people who were really ill and subjected to quackery moves me to point some shit out. Forgive me for pushing the limits of unfounded belief in this section. I can't ignore the harm this stuff does. DO NOT click on the link if you're offended by scientific research. 

 

https://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/reiki.html

[freshstart]

43 minutes ago, florduh said:

Knowing people who were really ill and subjected to quackery moves me to point some shit out. Forgive me for pushing the limits of unfounded belief in this section. I can't ignore the harm this stuff does. DO NOT click on the link if you're offended by scientific research. 

Did I miss something? Was anyone suggesting  that Reiki be used as a cure for disease?

It is an entirely harmless adjunct to traditional treatments. Its effectiveness in relieving subjective symptoms like anxiety and pain is to be judged only by the recipients.  If Tylenol doesn't cure my headache, what's the harm in trying Reiki? If my headache is due to a brain tumor, I dont think anyone is suggesting Reiki as a cure.

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24105356

 

https://www.livescience.com/40275-reiki.html

 

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/integrative_medicine_digestive_center/services/reiki.html

 

[florduh]

1 hour ago, freshstart said:

Did I miss something? Was anyone suggesting  that Reiki be used as a cure for disease?

It is an entirely harmless adjunct to traditional treatments. Its effectiveness in relieving subjective symptoms like anxiety and pain is to be judged only by the recipients.  If Tylenol doesn't cure my headache, what's the harm in trying Reiki? If my headache is due to a brain tumor, I dont think anyone is suggesting Reiki as a cure.

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24105356

 

https://www.livescience.com/40275-reiki.html

 

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/integrative_medicine_digestive_center/services/reiki.html

 

Yes, some do claim it can cure actual disease, not just temporary discomfort.

[Joshpantera]

On 9/4/2019 at 12:21 PM, Leo said:

Hey all,

 

Someone I know who also senses energies / sends out vibes mentioned something the other day -- consent. He does stuff they call pranic healing and other things I don't know anything about, but anyway, he brought up the idea of getting informed consent before we go sending people positive vibes, or in his case he does the remote reiki and prana healings, something I don't really know too much about.

 

But anyway, this makes sense to me; what if someone doesn't want that energy? Maybe they're a skeptic, and if they end up feeling some vibe it might freak them out. Or someone just needs to stay in a darker place for the time, so sending a ball of warmth or light, if you can see, isn't something they want?

 

I got to thinking about it and it resonates with me. I don't like it if someone comes up to me and physically grabs me / tries to drag me across the street, as a move to "help" the blind guy, maybe I was standing there waiting for someone. Or at minimum would have appreciated being asked. So what do you all think? Do you think more attention should be paid to consent when it comes to even just sending energies? Do you guys already do this?

 

I actually feel kinda bad now, because I've always just reflexively sent out positive energy when someone seemed like they needed it, before I even knew the words for it, or was hanging with the skeptics and trying to be one.

 

People are in charge of their universe, I just don't think I have the right to assume what energy they would want or not want.

 

I'm pretty sure that trying to affect someone's reality without their express consent is a type of black magic. We were noting that somewhere else.

 

Such as praying for people without their knowledge and consent actually amounts to little more than trying to perform "black magic" without knowing that that's what the "do gooder" christian is really doing. Oblivious to what they're engaging in. Thinking they're doing something righteous. 

 

Apply the same principle to this energy business and perhaps that's why he want's knowledge and consent from people so as to avoid the black magic factor? Maybe that goes into his reasoning for wanting express consent and knowledge thereof?  

[midniterider]

Maybe Reiki is the same as biophotons.

 

http://omnithought.org/biophotons-human-body-emits-communicates-made-from-light/5480

[Leo]

I've never thought of it as magic, or thought of the black or white magic part. I have literally always felt it, and just done it. So maybe I need to read up on that stuff so as to be more aware.

 

To Florduh's points, I need to read your links. I am very hesitant to make a claim about what will happen.

I have run into some debunkers of energy who actually express similar characteristics to the creationists, meaning they argue their own version of what they think you think, rather than actually argue anything that you said.

 

Midniterider's point solves a lot of this, because both the alleged gurus, and the debunkers, are kind of competing for the same thing. I think the back and forth, "I'm special because I'm enlightened!" "No, I'm special because I went to school, I'm snarkier than you, and my cookie cut response to this stuff has the stamp of rationality on it!" really ruins any effect.

 

How many gurus actually take the time to help someone? And how many debunkers actually take the time to do something constructive, or are they just out to neg like a pickup artist? Information on both sides can definitely be gleaned. And I'm all for not trying to trick people into something. 

[florduh]

2 hours ago, Leo said:

And how many debunkers actually take the time to do something constructive

Debunking quackery is a constructive enterprise. Once the door is open to belief in chi, energy fields, meridians, chakras and faith healing, the path eventually leads to trusting your health and well being to crystals, magnets, Goop, homeopathic concoctions or peach pits to cure cancer. "Energy healing" is no different than the Christian superstition of laying on hands. Giving it another name changes nothing. Sorry, I'll never back away from exposing quackery because I've seen the harm it does.

 

With that, I leave you all to your thread with fingers crossed.

[midniterider]

9 hours ago, florduh said:

Once the door is open to belief in chi, energy fields, meridians, chakras and faith healing, the path eventually leads to trusting your health and well being to crystals, magnets, Goop, homeopathic concoctions or peach pits to cure cancer.

 

I'm on high blood pressure meds. I see a cardiologist. I sometimes enjoy woo but dont try to heal myself with it. That'd be pretty dumb. 

 

Leo, if any serious medical conditions pop up, see a physician.  

 

[Joshpantera]

@TrueFreedom

 

@Jagdish is trying to post here in the spirituality section. 

[LogicalFallacy]

I have a question about this energy stuff. Is it any different to sending "thoughts and prayers"? Or do you think there is a fundamental difference?

[florduh]

1 hour ago, LogicalFallacy said:

I have a question about this energy stuff. Is it any different to sending "thoughts and prayers"? Or do you think there is a fundamental difference?

I think the difference is in the superstitious trappings. The intent and results are the same.

[LogicalFallacy]

2 hours ago, florduh said:

I think the difference is in the superstitious trappings. The intent and results are the same.

 

I do too - I'm interested in what our folks here who do think energy can be sent/received think since I assume that because they are here they reject the idea of "thoughts and prayers" actually doing anything.

[midniterider]

On 9/30/2019 at 6:27 PM, LogicalFallacy said:

 

I do too - I'm interested in what our folks here who do think energy can be sent/received think since I assume that because they are here they reject the idea of "thoughts and prayers" actually doing anything.

 

 

I would like to think that either energy can be sent/received or one can dial into the correct universe where what you want is occurring.  I don't believe that the universe is cold dead matter. I think it's alive and everything is what we are. Nor do I think reality need conform to scientific laws or theories about its operation. I think the universe is conscious and generally operates in a certain way to minimize chaos, but also bends its own policies and procedures now and then.

 

I don't think Jesus is involved in any of this. He doesnt seem to let us know one way or the other. Christianity gave me a headache, so I quit.

 

Whether thoughts and prayers do anything, I don't know. Do thoughts and prayers cause the placebo effect or 'spontaneous' remission? 

 

If observation can make an interference pattern change to a 2 bar pattern...what does this say about any experiment? 

 

...

 

You ever wonder that now and then there might be a glitch in the matrix, so the matrix rewrites everything including our memories of the glitch?  What if bananas weren't always yellow ... maybe they were plaid ... then one day accidently turned yellow... so the matrix rewrote all information everywhere to reflect their yellow status. Banana scientists just continued on as if nothing changed, after eating plaid bananas for decades.