Super Moderator Hierophant Posted February 4, 2021 Super Moderator Share Posted February 4, 2021 @pittsburghjoe You definitely have a unique theology and I want to ask you more about it without the debate aspect. I want to ask questions and get your definitions of terms. Also, I want to get your opinion of church history, Bible history and how you reconcile different ideas against your theological approach. While others are welcome to ask Joe specific theology questions, I do not want this to be a debate....that is for the Lion's Den. @pittsburghjoe, are you up for a Q&A session? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pittsburghjoe Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 Ask whatever, I'll answer the best I can. You were a little general on the first post can you please go into something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator Hierophant Posted February 4, 2021 Author Super Moderator Share Posted February 4, 2021 Sure thing. I ask because your theology is not necessarily what I would call orthodox, at least not what I am used to being called orthodox, and probably not something most of the backgrounds here would call orthodoxy. So I don't ask you for information you already provided elsewhere, do you have a bio or quick history of your experience with religion and how to came to your current theology? I saw someone had mentioned you started out Catholic, but I am guessing you are not longer affiliated with the Catholic church? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pittsburghjoe Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 I'm Roman Catholic. I haven't been to Church for a while. I was an unbelievable turd just like you guys not long ago. I would have been right there with you trying to make fun of Christians ...but something changed. I grew up going to Church every Sunday. I moved out of my parents place and I went nuts with the freedom. I got involved with people that were basically the definition of Babylon. I can say I lived in sin. I like to think it was a necessary step to be where I am now. A couple years ago I got very interested in the double slit. It blew my mind when I first heard about observation causing decoherence. I didn't figure out what it was actually about until a couple weeks ago. I don't think I was in complete control when I wrote that opening statement to WalterP. I think I got help from the Holy Spirit. After posting it, I read it over and over ..I can't think of anything more convincing to get unbelievers to consider this reality isn't what they thought. Okay, so, yes you are right in assuming Christians what me hung for considering physicality being sin. No one wants to admit that Jesus said Satan is the ruler of this place. No no wants to consider what that actually entails. I see it as something obvious to show unbelievers. Gnosticism scares me, they caught on to one good idea and discredited it forever. The key to this mess is showing people coherent waves can be just as physical ..sans the sin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator Hierophant Posted February 4, 2021 Author Super Moderator Share Posted February 4, 2021 I think I am following some of what you are saying. Speaking of physicality, do you think Jesus was physical or consisted of matter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pittsburghjoe Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 Jesus is a special case. God can be in any environment he wants. He showed up in a locked room after resurrecting ..he can walk through walls. But he also ate a fish and Thomas touched his side. The Shroud of Turin was made from radiated light. When Jesus ascended he transferred over to God's Kingdom ..he isn't floating out in space somewhere. Jesus was "made in sin" ..he was made in a way that could interact with decoherence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator Hierophant Posted February 4, 2021 Author Super Moderator Share Posted February 4, 2021 I did not word that question correctly, I meant to say, before his death, during his earthly ministry, was he matter? In the same way you and I are. Also, I forgot to ask, were you an agnostic or atheist prior to a couple weeks ago? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pittsburghjoe Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 Jesus was was in the Trinity before becoming Man. He was born by Marry. Can you imagine Herod killing babies for no reason? It screams Satan was involved. Erm, I was probably agnostic, but more like a year or so ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator Hierophant Posted February 4, 2021 Author Super Moderator Share Posted February 4, 2021 I hear what you are saying, I am just trying to pin down your thought process. I am tracking the trinity and the theology around it. For the sake of discussion, you can assume I am very familiar with your typical Christianity and the beliefs. And just to make sure I did not misunderstand, when you said Jesus became a man, do you mean a physical, what we normally think of as human, or something else? I ask because I am uncertain about whether or not you think something physical is inherently corrupted or evil. You mentioned an angel being physical so I want to clarify and make sure I was on the same page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pittsburghjoe Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 An angel could attack the physical. The angel was "physical" in coherent waves. Jesus had to be regular human man to allow a way for Satan to relinquish his claim on everyone here. I told you Jesus was "made in sin". There wasn't sin in his heart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator Hierophant Posted February 4, 2021 Author Super Moderator Share Posted February 4, 2021 Okay, I see. Thanks for clarifying. Could you explain what you mean by decoherent waves and matter. I am a bit unclear on what you mean by that. If you could give as much context as possible, I would appreciate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pittsburghjoe Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 When you measure/observe a wave it becomes a decohered wave packet. Light as a wave packet is a photon. A wave with mass is a matter wave ..it can be an unobserved free atom. If it interacts with something, we say it lost information to the environment and decohered. It would then be a physical particle ..it is real to us. In this fallen reality it means it is part of the present state ..the now. I suspect this present state is an infinite some of all local waves. It goes back to us being unique. I don't think we can be all connected (Heaven) and have a present state at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator Hierophant Posted February 5, 2021 Author Super Moderator Share Posted February 5, 2021 Could you expand upon how this relates to Satan, evil, etc.? Exactly how one is correlated to the other, how they relate, or just generally how you understand it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pittsburghjoe Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 Satan was the first to sin ..he started decoherence ..he started this fallen reality view by causing disorder in God's Kingdom. We are on Satan's turf. Anything physical is decohered. Are you getting why he has authority? We signed up for this BS. We wanted to be able to sin. Entropy is disorder and is everywhere here. It is bananas that Satan can be anywhere that is fallen an no one questions why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator Hierophant Posted February 5, 2021 Author Super Moderator Share Posted February 5, 2021 I am familiar with what you are saying based on other comments you have made. Quick question on this reality and Jesus. I am not quite clear on how Jesus was material and existed in this reality as a human, which is Satan's domain without being part of sin nature. If I am following you correctly, then everything in this reality is tainted by sin, is that correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pittsburghjoe Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 There is a reason he was born a human from someone that was already here. Mary. God doesn't like having anything to do with this fallen reality if he doesn't have to. He had to be decoherent to pay for our sins. Being made of this place does not make your heart or mind sin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator Hierophant Posted February 5, 2021 Author Super Moderator Share Posted February 5, 2021 Interesting. How does original sin work then? Do you believe in inherented sin or do you think humans sin because the nature of the reality we live in? I think the term is Pelagianism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pittsburghjoe Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 The double slit experiment is demonstrating the knowledge of good and evil. Evil with decoherence ..but Good with coherence. Interference patterns are coherent. The pattern is from all paths being taken at the same time, virtually. All quantum effects can be attributed to interference because it is coherent. We know this is what is happening because we can send one wave at a time and it still displays an interference pattern if we wait for several waves to register. Original sin happened, we are born into this fallen condition because of it. We have a similar choice as Adam and Eve, in that, we can choose Jesus instead of the sin that is available here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator Hierophant Posted February 5, 2021 Author Super Moderator Share Posted February 5, 2021 Okay. I think I am following what you are saying there. When it comes to biblical authority, you stated the Bible is more of a guide. What would you say to a Christian who challenged you with Sola Scriptura? There a many Christians who would say the Bible is the authority for all things. For the most part, to be taken literally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator Hierophant Posted February 5, 2021 Author Super Moderator Share Posted February 5, 2021 I am racking out for the night. I will see your response in the morning if you post it tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pittsburghjoe Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 I'm not challenging the literal word ..I'm challenging what the words mean. Interpretation is open to debate. Your friends on this site want to use the words how they see them ..because they think it disproves something. Look for evil and you will find it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator Hierophant Posted February 5, 2021 Author Super Moderator Share Posted February 5, 2021 Could you explain what you mean by evil, sin, or even bad. I do not want to rehash the Genesis discussion, but I do want to define terms. For example, in my Christian experience, sin, and to my understanding, the way it is used in the Bible is to "miss the mark," to fall short of a standard; therefore anything that was short of God's standard is bad, evil, sinful. Do you define these words differently? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pittsburghjoe Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 Sin is whenever something is only about you. That is only possible here in this evil fallen condition. I'm kicking around the idea that we are virtual matter waves when not here. You can not sin controlling an avatar in a video game. When you are virtual and everything around you is virtual, there isn't a way to sin. Nothing is actually yours to claim. God's standard is order, sin is disorder. Bad is a way for someone to know something isn't good without causing them to be decoherent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator Hierophant Posted February 5, 2021 Author Super Moderator Share Posted February 5, 2021 Thanks for clarifying those terms. Backing up a bit, could you explain to me how double slit theory was the epiphany that made you go from agnostic to Christian? What specifically about that theory did you think pointed to the veracity of Christianity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pittsburghjoe Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 I was big into figuring out what Dark Matter was. It sounds like virtual matter waves to me. I don't think it has a way to decohere or have a present state. Jesus said God's Kingdom is all around us ..well. I originally thought the double slit was showing us another dimension was involved. It would be later that I would find out we bump two atoms together to entangle them. We are causing them to share all possible paths for a split second. All possible paths are used for interference patterns in the double slit. The Bible says God is Light ..light is electromagnetism and is the main part of the vector field. It is where all possible paths are. It is why a wave is a wave. All forces originate from the vector field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts