New Here! Hello!

[FairlySunny]

Hey, so I’ve been wanting to post here for awhile, and I’m still kind of confused on how to post in what sections as a new member, but here I am! 
I’m kind of nervous, but I guess I’ll just go ahead. I’m in my early twenties and last year I officially left Christianity. I grew up conservative and homeschooled in the southern United States, and I graduated college almost two years ago. 
 

Three years ago I almost killed my self for a lot of reasons, but one of them was hating myself for being bisexual. I’ve known since I was about 11 that I was bisexual, at least in the loosest understanding of the word. Growing up in Christianity I always felt like there was something wrong with me for that fact. Something deeply, darkly wrong with me. I guess a more specific version of how every sinner really feels, right? My Mom used to tell me no one deserved anything other than Death, Hell, and the Grave and I always really hated that.  But I still believed in God, in Jesus. I really did believe. I went on mission trips in high school, even in college. I shared the gospel, I went to a liberal arts college and had lots of discussions with people “different than me” and still believed. I’m not sure exactly what made me really begin to let myself doubt, but a lot of things in my head started to change after I almost killed myself. I started to care less about pretending to be something I wasn’t. 
 

About two years ago I got to a point where in the back of my head I knew that I couldn’t go forward pretending my sexuality didn’t exist. I had a thought that this was the point that I was going to go all in or all out with Christianity. So I started to do research. I started out researching Christians who said Homosexuality actually wasn’t wrong according to the Bible. I looked into this Greek word versus that one, and this translation versus that minor or major difference. I listened to “ex gay” Christians and I listened to “gay” Christians. I listened to “same sex attracted celibate” Christians. I soon came to realize there was just a lot of subjectivity there. I realized people will write entire books on a one word difference that may or may not be true. And create entire seminary classes on why a “lifestyle” is wrong because a group of men a really long time ago agreed on it. 
 So that may be why I started to question Christianity, but it’s not why I am why I am today. Because from my findings at the time, for me, I surmised that the Bible did in fact condemn homosexuality. And with where I was in my life, I didn’t know how to reconcile that with Christianity. Let me also say that this first process was still very painful. I felt like I was having to make a decision whether part of my identity was valid or not based on 30 different scholars who knew nothing about me. So I made another decision. I decided to do a deep dive research into Christianity. No holds barred let all the doubts in.

 

I think this part was the most painful. I let myself feel the doubts and horror I had always felt about the concept of Hell and why other people had to be sent there if they were “good people”. I researched the concept and history of Hell. I let myself scream and cry at the  idea of a God who would torture people like that for eternity. I researched contradictions in the Bible. I researched “fulfilled prophecies” and “signs of the end times” validity. I listened to Ex Christians. I listened to Atheists and people who left religion. I listened to ex Mormons, ex Jehovah’s Witnesses, ex Muslims, ex Evangelical Fundamentalists like I guess I was. I read testimonies on here. I studied The Lions Den. During all of this time my mind was churning and breaking apart a little. There was a lot of cognitive dissonance. Most of my close friends are committed Christians. Most of my family is as well. I was terrified to come out of the closet in two different ways. Agnostic/atheist or whatever I was becoming and coming out as Bisexual. 
I told a few close friends about being bisexual when I was in the Greek research phase, and they just told me to be careful that it didn’t affect my faith. I mean hey, we see how that turned out. 
When I fully began to acknowledge to myself that I didn’t believe in Christianity anymore, I didn’t tell anyone for awhile. I didn’t know who to tell. I told my brother and sister and they reacted pretty well. My brother is still kind of Christian but not super fundamentalist. My sister is kind of agnostic, she’s gone through the stages of progressive Christianity and I don’t think she’s super committed to the idea of Christianity. I came out to her in both ways and she just shrugged and told me to get a better job and I needed my own health insurance by now. She said she didn’t care about any of that other stuff. 
I told a couple of my Christian friends and they reacted how I thought they would, they said me saying that I wasn’t a Christian anymore scared them, but of course they were still my friends. And since then we have been, because besides that they are good friends and they have been there for me through a lot. But I’m honestly not interested in talking with them, or “debating” with them about it. I told my parents about being Bi and leaving Christianity around the holidays and although they reacted better than I thought, there was still plenty of tears and yelling. 
I apologized to my Mom for hurting her feelings for one instance and she burst out crying, saying how could I even know I was wrong if I left Christianity? How could I have any sense of objective morality now? I was stunned, and I fully realize the problems with what she said, and I tried to explain them to her, that plenty of people have morality without Christianity, and that religion doesn’t have a baseline on right and wrong, but she wouldn’t hear it. I then realized that this is how Christians see other people.
That is how I saw other people not in Christianity. I thought they could do good things, sure, but there was still something off about them to me. Could they really be capable of good without Jesus? In Christianity, when someone does “wrong” or “commits a sin” they’re “covered by grace”. But if a non believer does it, well they’re evil and of the world. We shouldn’t have expected any better. But when Christians commit sin and fall it just means we’re not perfect and we’re trying to be through Jesus. I’m realizing how nonsensical so much of Christianity really is. My parents listened to Evangelist Ravi Zacharias a lot growing up, and although he passed away recently, some things came out about him in the past few months about sexual assault allegations and misconduct. In fact it was his own organization that looked into the allegations after his death. They released a report and in that report it detailed how Ravi had nude photos of his masseuses. There were messages on his phone, payments he made to keep his victims quiet. Accounts from many women who said he touched them inappropriately. What got me was many Christians were surprised by this. And even more, how many just refused to believe it, even with all the evidence laid out in front of them. But I wasn’t surprised. I knew people in the Church covered up things like this all the time. But it was interesting to me, because I remember some of the messages Ravi used to say. “Secret sin will find you out” being one he would say constantly. I know it’s hard to admit when someone you looked up to falls. I guess especially if you’re not used to admitting you’re wrong, about anything. It’s hard to admit you’re wrong. I think in part, that’s why so many stay Christians when they have so much doubt. 
 

I’d also like to add that although I love my parents, and I do love them dearly, they did things throughout my childhood that I now view as abusive. I’m an adult now. I’ve been in therapy for four years now. I’m 24. But my Dad threw me on the ground when I was a kid and it knocked the wind out of me. They tied me up with duct tape when I was an early teenager and laughed at me because I talked back (something they  say they don’t remember doing). My Dad has punched holes in our walls. If I was clenching my fists while my Dad was spanking me, he would keep spanking me until I wasn’t “angry” so I wouldn’t have a “rebellious” spirit. My older sister got the brunt of a lot of it, and my brother maybe got less of it than I did. But it for sure messed all of us up. My parents have cried and said they’re so sorry for all of it. And I do believe them. And they are doing better. They’re trying, at least on that front. But it still doesn’t erase the damage. It’s hard to explain that to them. I also know they are the way that they are because of their parents. Their parents abused them in some ways as well. It’s hard realizing this, because I love my grandparents and they love me. My grandpa pushed my Dad down some pretty steep stairs when he was a teenager. My Dad still doesn’t see that as abuse and says he deserves it because he was talking back. So I see the cycles, I do and it hurts. I see Christianity as one of those cycles as well. And I want to break it. 
 

I lost my Grandma last year to cancer, my Mom’s mom, and that was hard for me to reconcile with leaving Christianity. Because while Hell is such an awful idea, Heaven to me was such a nice and dear one for so long. I used to have dreams about it as a kid. We were pretty close and I wanted to be able to see her again. Letting go of that was hard, and I still have trouble with it sometimes. Then I remind myself that while Heaven may not exist and while there may not be anything after this, that makes this life so much sweeter. Plus it is so much better than believing in a tortuous eternity for anyone. 
I guess I’m not exactly sure where I fall now. Maybe agnostic, maybe on the way to atheism. All I know for sure is that I’m not a Christian anymore. And although my life is still hard, I feel a lot better about myself in so many ways. But I do still struggle with some things. For a long time when contradictions would happen, such as when I would be praying if I should go to a certain college, and someone would talk to me about that college and I would think “oh thanks God.” Or if I hadn’t eaten lunch at work and someone brought donuts I would think “wow thanks for providing for me God”. 
When I almost killed myself and I reached out for help when I needed it afterwards, I thought: “Wow God you really are there for me”. I’m realizing now that that, was actually just all me and other people. Not to sound full of myself, but realizing that it was actually just me being that strong has been comforting. 
I still struggle with praying sometimes as a comfort measure, and maybe that will take time to fade. I still struggle with the thought that maybe I’m wrong about all of this, and sometimes even a fear of hell,  and maybe that takes time to fade as well. 
I know this was a lot but if there’s one thing I know about this website it’s that long posts seem to be okay here haha. 
That’s most of my story, and I just wanted to reach out and say hello. 
I also wanted to ask:

 

  - What helped you with these  doubts when you first really acknowledged Christianity was bullshit? 
 

- Are there any resources you would recommend? Authors? Books? 
 

I’m really not interested in debating or talking about Christianity, or why I’m wrong with my Christian friends and family right now. The little bit I’ve done has been exhausting and I just flat out don’t want to engage in it right now with them. I guess I don’t owe it to them anyway. If anyone tries to talk to me about why Christianity is right and I’m wrong I’m just going to say I don’t want to talk about it or leave. I don’t feel ready to argue or debate and I don’t really want to. That’s okay, right? I don’t want to talk about these things all of the time or hear about my mortal soul on the road to decay for the 100th time. Or hear how owning up to my bisexuality makes me an abomination. I’m just sick of it. And I am at the beginning of this, I guess I am on the younger side. So we’ll see how I feel about in ten years. Right now though I just want to be able to live my life. I’m not out to everyone I want to be on both fronts, but it’s getting to the point where I just don’t care who knows anymore. But it is kind of ostracizing. And I do miss the community that I had at church.  
I guess regardless I’m here now. 
 

- Fairly Sunny 

 

[florduh]

Welcome!

 

Although anything to do with sexuality is a hot button for Christians, their official position is that literally EVERYONE is faulty and needs fixing. It's the primary product they sell.

 

You'll be fine, just give it some time and feel free to ask or contribute anything you want around these parts.

[Moonobserver]

52 minutes ago, FairlySunny said:

Hey, so I’ve been wanting to post here for awhile, and I’m still kind of confused on how to post in what sections as a new member, but here I am! 
I’m kind of nervous, but I guess I’ll just go ahead. I’m in my early twenties and last year I officially left Christianity. I grew up conservative and homeschooled in the southern United States, and I graduated college almost two years ago. 
 

Three years ago I almost killed my self for a lot of reasons, but one of them was hating myself for being bisexual. I’ve known since I was about 11 that I was bisexual, at least in the loosest understanding of the word. Growing up in Christianity I always felt like there was something wrong with me for that fact. Something deeply, darkly wrong with me. I guess a more specific version of how every sinner really feels, right? My Mom used to tell me no one deserved anything other than Death, Hell, and the Grave and I always really hated that.  But I still believed in God, in Jesus. I really did believe. I went on mission trips in high school, even in college. I shared the gospel, I went to a liberal arts college and had lots of discussions with people “different than me” and still believed. I’m not sure exactly what made me really begin to let myself doubt, but a lot of things in my head started to change after I almost killed myself. I started to care less about pretending to be something I wasn’t. 
 

About two years ago I got to a point where in the back of my head I knew that I couldn’t go forward pretending my sexuality didn’t exist. I had a thought that this was the point that I was going to go all in or all out with Christianity. So I started to do research. I started out researching Christians who said Homosexuality actually wasn’t wrong according to the Bible. I looked into this Greek word versus that one, and this translation versus that minor or major difference. I listened to “ex gay” Christians and I listened to “gay” Christians. I listened to “same sex attracted celibate” Christians. I soon came to realize there was just a lot of subjectivity there. I realized people will write entire books on a one word difference that may or may not be true. And create entire seminary classes on why a “lifestyle” is wrong because a group of men a really long time ago agreed on it. 
 So that may be why I started to question Christianity, but it’s not why I am why I am today. Because from my findings at the time, for me, I surmised that the Bible did in fact condemn homosexuality. And with where I was in my life, I didn’t know how to reconcile that with Christianity. Let me also say that this first process was still very painful. I felt like I was having to make a decision whether part of my identity was valid or not based on 30 different scholars who knew nothing about me. So I made another decision. I decided to do a deep dive research into Christianity. No holds barred let all the doubts in.

 

I think this part was the most painful. I let myself feel the doubts and horror I had always felt about the concept of Hell and why other people had to be sent there if they were “good people”. I researched the concept and history of Hell. I let myself scream and cry at the  idea of a God who would torture people like that for eternity. I researched contradictions in the Bible. I researched “fulfilled prophecies” and “signs of the end times” validity. I listened to Ex Christians. I listened to Atheists and people who left religion. I listened to ex Mormons, ex Jehovah’s Witnesses, ex Muslims, ex Evangelical Fundamentalists like I guess I was. I read testimonies on here. I studied The Lions Den. During all of this time my mind was churning and breaking apart a little. There was a lot of cognitive dissonance. Most of my close friends are committed Christians. Most of my family is as well. I was terrified to come out of the closet in two different ways. Agnostic/atheist or whatever I was becoming and coming out as Bisexual. 
I told a few close friends about being bisexual when I was in the Greek research phase, and they just told me to be careful that it didn’t affect my faith. I mean hey, we see how that turned out. 
When I fully began to acknowledge to myself that I didn’t believe in Christianity anymore, I didn’t tell anyone for awhile. I didn’t know who to tell. I told my brother and sister and they reacted pretty well. My brother is still kind of Christian but not super fundamentalist. My sister is kind of agnostic, she’s gone through the stages of progressive Christianity and I don’t think she’s super committed to the idea of Christianity. I came out to her in both ways and she just shrugged and told me to get a better job and I needed my own health insurance by now. She said she didn’t care about any of that other stuff. 
I told a couple of my Christian friends and they reacted how I thought they would, they said me saying that I wasn’t a Christian anymore scared them, but of course they were still my friends. And since then we have been, because besides that they are good friends and they have been there for me through a lot. But I’m honestly not interested in talking with them, or “debating” with them about it. I told my parents about being Bi and leaving Christianity around the holidays and although they reacted better than I thought, there was still plenty of tears and yelling. 
I apologized to my Mom for hurting her feelings for one instance and she burst out crying, saying how could I even know I was wrong if I left Christianity? How could I have any sense of objective morality now? I was stunned, and I fully realize the problems with what she said, and I tried to explain them to her, that plenty of people have morality without Christianity, and that religion doesn’t have a baseline on right and wrong, but she wouldn’t hear it. I then realized that this is how Christians see other people.
That is how I saw other people not in Christianity. I thought they could do good things, sure, but there was still something off about them to me. Could they really be capable of good without Jesus? In Christianity, when someone does “wrong” or “commits a sin” they’re “covered by grace”. But if a non believer does it, well they’re evil and of the world. We shouldn’t have expected any better. But when Christians commit sin and fall it just means we’re not perfect and we’re trying to be through Jesus. I’m realizing how nonsensical so much of Christianity really is. My parents listened to Evangelist Ravi Zacharias a lot growing up, and although he passed away recently, some things came out about him in the past few months about sexual assault allegations and misconduct. In fact it was his own organization that looked into the allegations after his death. They released a report and in that report it detailed how Ravi had nude photos of his masseuses. There were messages on his phone, payments he made to keep his victims quiet. Accounts from many women who said he touched them inappropriately. What got me was many Christians were surprised by this. And even more, how many just refused to believe it, even with all the evidence laid out in front of them. But I wasn’t surprised. I knew people in the Church covered up things like this all the time. But it was interesting to me, because I remember some of the messages Ravi used to say. “Secret sin will find you out” being one he would say constantly. I know it’s hard to admit when someone you looked up to falls. I guess especially if you’re not used to admitting you’re wrong, about anything. It’s hard to admit you’re wrong. I think in part, that’s why so many stay Christians when they have so much doubt. 
 

I’d also like to add that although I love my parents, and I do love them dearly, they did things throughout my childhood that I now view as abusive. I’m an adult now. I’ve been in therapy for four years now. I’m 24. But my Dad threw me on the ground when I was a kid and it knocked the wind out of me. They tied me up with duct tape when I was an early teenager and laughed at me because I talked back (something they  say they don’t remember doing). My Dad has punched holes in our walls. If I was clenching my fists while my Dad was spanking me, he would keep spanking me until I wasn’t “angry” so I wouldn’t have a “rebellious” spirit. My older sister got the brunt of a lot of it, and my brother maybe got less of it than I did. But it for sure messed all of us up. My parents have cried and said they’re so sorry for all of it. And I do believe them. And they are doing better. They’re trying, at least on that front. But it still doesn’t erase the damage. It’s hard to explain that to them. I also know they are the way that they are because of their parents. Their parents abused them in some ways as well. It’s hard realizing this, because I love my grandparents and they love me. My grandpa pushed my Dad down some pretty steep stairs when he was a teenager. My Dad still doesn’t see that as abuse and says he deserves it because he was talking back. So I see the cycles, I do and it hurts. I see Christianity as one of those cycles as well. And I want to break it. 
 

I lost my Grandma last year to cancer, my Mom’s mom, and that was hard for me to reconcile with leaving Christianity. Because while Hell is such an awful idea, Heaven to me was such a nice and dear one for so long. I used to have dreams about it as a kid. We were pretty close and I wanted to be able to see her again. Letting go of that was hard, and I still have trouble with it sometimes. Then I remind myself that while Heaven may not exist and while there may not be anything after this, that makes this life so much sweeter. Plus it is so much better than believing in a tortuous eternity for anyone. 
I guess I’m not exactly sure where I fall now. Maybe agnostic, maybe on the way to atheism. All I know for sure is that I’m not a Christian anymore. And although my life is still hard, I feel a lot better about myself in so many ways. But I do still struggle with some things. For a long time when contradictions would happen, su- What helped you with these  doubts when you first really acknowledged Christianity was bullshit? 
 

- Are there any resources you would recommend? Authors? Books? 
 

I’m really not interested in debating or talking about Christianity, or why I’m wrong with my Christian friends and family right now. The little bit I’ve done has been exhausting and I just flat out don’t want to engage in it right now with them. I guess I don’t owe it to them anyway. If anyone tries to talk to me about why Christianity is right and I’m wrong I’m just going to say I don’t want to talk about it or leave. I don’t feel ready to argue or debate and I don’t really want to. That’s okay, right? I don’t want to talk about these things all of the time or hear about my mortal soul on the road to decay for the 100th time. Or hear how owning up to my bisexuality makes me an abomination. I’m just sick of it. And I am at the beginning of this, I guess I am on the younger side. So we’ll see how I feel about in ten years. Right now though I just want to be able to live my life. I’m not out to everyone I want to be on both fronts, but it’s getting to the point where I just don’t care who knows anymore. But it is kind of ostracizing. And I do miss the community that I had at church.  
I guess regardless I’m here now. 
 

- Fairly Sunny 

 

This may seem odd since I'm not Jewish, but one thing I've found helpful has been to research the inconsistencies between Christian scriptures and the Jewish Bible. The former are supposed to be supported by the latter, but Jewish scholars give some pretty good presentations refuting that claim.

 

As for resources, there are just scads of them. I'm not an atheist myself so my personal library goes in more of a spirit-quest direction, but if you look around you'll find no shortage of perspectives you can consider. 

 

In Christian apologetics there's a lot of talk about "judging God by our own standards". When looking at the Bible's often-questionable description of God, a question I would ask a Bible apologist is, "If this same story were told about any other god in any other religion, wouldn't you hold that god to a higher standard than this?" I know you said you're not looking to debate, but formulating logical questions can help you clarify your own beliefs and why you hold them, which in turn can strengthen you should you ever find yourself having to state your position to someone.

 

In any case my advice would be, "research, research, research". Devour all the knowledge you can and think through everything. As you do, you'll learn more and more how to be true to yourself.

[♦ Fuego ♦]

Welcome! Sounds like you don't want or need to rehash any of the Bible dogmas, and that is good! You found a nice clean path away and took it, even breaking it to family and friends. That is courageous and authentic. Far more important now is finding out more about who you are. It is great that you can see the abuse for what it is, and are finding ways to deal with the effects it had/has on you. 

 

Community is kind of hard to come by these days of COVID-time. I hope we can be a source of encouragement where you can be yourself.

[◊ DestinyTurtle ◊]

Welcome to X-Xian, @FairlySunny! Super proud of you for owning up to yourself! The Xian world's ability to embrace hypocrisy and demonize "outsiders" is always outstanding to me, and there's always an underlying threat that you will be equally demonized if you don't fit in to their template. The red flags are always there but it's just that there aren't very many people who have the courage to point it out. 

[TABA]

Welcome to our community, FairlySunny!  Congratulations on making the break at an early age.  If there’s one area of human life that Christianity can fuck up, it’s sexuality.   I can only imagine how many people over the centuries have suffered by trying to shoe-horn themselves into the only options provided by Christianity: a monogamous heterosexual relationship only within marriage, or else lifelong celibacy.  It’s hard enough for the heterosexual to adhere to, especially when young, but for others it requires a complete suppression for life.  Good for you for not submitting to this!

 

It’s a big step to say “I am no longer a Christian”, even saying it to yourself.  It’s scary and exciting at the same time.  This community is filled with people who have done it and started down the road to a better life.  It’s by no means the end of the deconversion process, which generally takes years as your mind reprograms itself.  Don’t worry about labels like agnostic or atheist right now.  Just no longer being a Christian is big enough to start with. 

 

Living without the strict rules provided by Christianity can be both liberating and scary.  You will need to figure out both your own morality and your purpose in life for yourself.  Some people want or need the prepackaged stuff provided by a religion like Christianity.  Ultimately though, living your life this way is more rewarding, and there is plenty of wisdom to draw upon, outside of religious doctrine.

 

You asked about books:  we have a Recommended Books section that has lots of good ones.  Personally I’d recommend the one or two titles by Marlene Winnell and just about anything by Bart Ehrman.

 

 

 

Welcome to your post-Christian life, and welcome to this great community.  You’re truly among friends here!

 

- TABA

 

 

[Joshpantera]

Welcome Fairly Sunny!

 

This is a fairly common situation. People coming here and mentioning bisexual feelings as a root for leaving the church. Or outright homosexual feelings. You have to imagine the amount of suppression that went on in societies for centuries on end while christianity was dominant and powerful in the world. It's not as if all of sudden people in society started having these feelings out of the blue. It's been there all along. Especially within the clergy it would seem, but that's neither here nor there. 

 

The good thing is that you figured out on your own that christianity isn't true. It's not. There's many ways in which a person can discover that. And you're right. The people who delude themselves into thinking that the bible doesn't condemn homosexuality are ignoring and trying to side step what is written in plain, black and white terms in the bible. This is not different than the issue of slavery. The bible condone's slavery right on through to the NT. We have threads about that. We have debates with christians about that. 

 

The bible is a bronze age production! 

 

There's really no use for something like that in today's society aside from reading it as mythology, like Greek, Roman, or any other near eastern mythology which is comparable. Who reads Greek myth as a basis for their moral structure and values today? Reading through examples of how Zeus handled this or that? And arguing among themselves if Zeus really meant such and such in the original ancient Greek or not? 

 

That's literally how foolish bible readers and bible worshipers are in reality. No less foolish. And you've seen the light. 

 

Good on you and welcome again! 

[TheRedneckProfessor]

We tend to forget that our parents are people; and people tend to have their own interests, motivations, and agendas.  Parents aren't supposed to put their own interests above their kids; but we do it all the time, often without even realizing it.  Because that's what people do.

 

In my own case, my mother was obsessed with maintaining the image of the ideal christian family with perfect christian kids.  It didn't matter what happened at home, behind closed doors, so long as the public image was perfect.  Dad let a lot of things happen, often literally standing idly by (which is likely why I get pissed about god allowing evil), because in his mind a bad peace was preferable to a good war.  Both parents had rough childhoods.  Mom was blatantly abused physically and emotionally.  She never dealt with it beyond hiding in the church and religion.  So maintaining the image of perfection is obviously what interests her; it's her safety.  Dad's dad was not an easy man to be a kid around; so avoiding conflict and maintaining the peace at all costs became very important to my dad, even as a kid.

 

When I look at my parents as people, it is easier for me to shift the focus and reword the narrative.  Their behavior had nothing to do with me; and everything to do with them.  I wasn't abused; my mom was abusive.  Her behavior toward me was not a reflection of who I am.  It was who she was.  This takes me out of the victim mentality and places me solid in the survivor column.  I don't know if this approach is the best for everyone; but I know it works for me.

[Joshpantera]

1 hour ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

Her behavior toward me was not a reflection of who I am.  It was who she was.  This takes me out of the victim mentality and places me solid in the survivor column.  I don't know if this approach is the best for everyone; but I know it works for me.

 

This is good! 

 

Victim mentality pervades society right now for various reasons. And it's easy to see how it can reach into ex christians leaving christianity because, let's face it, a lot of us literally were victims of various abuses - mental and / or physical. The horror stories we've heard over the years. No doubt many of us really are victims. 

 

But what you say above is a very valid point in my view. Whether we were victims or not, the bottom line is that we can choose to transcend a victim mentality if we so choose. And navigate our remaining lives accordingly. 

[FairlySunny]

Thank you all for the kind and helpful messages! I will be sure to check that book list out. 
 

@TheRedneckProfessor& @Joshpantera

 

That is helpful, thanks. Yeah I realized a long time ago that my parents are just people. They have their own pain and problems and things they never dealt with. I’m trying not to hold that against them. I know they love me, and although it is hard for me to balance knowing that with some of their actions, our relationship is a lot better now than it used to be. Even with everything. I can’t speak for the future and how things may play out but I guess I can only do my part anyway. 
 

Something I also realized a while ago was that not only can you not make people change, you can’t make people want to change either. They have to decide for themselves. And that’s hard to realize, especially when you see their ideas and actions hurting themselves and others. But I don’t like people trying to control me, so I can’t expect others to react any better. 
 

Thank you all again.

[◊ Weezer ◊]

Sounds like you have a good brain to think with.  Trust your own judgement.  Best wishes in finding a "community" of like minded people.

You might try RECOVERING FROM RELIGION to find a group nearby.  

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

On 2/15/2021 at 7:40 PM, FairlySunny said:

- What helped you with these  doubts when you first really acknowledged Christianity was bullshit? 
 

- Are there any resources you would recommend? Authors? Books? 

 

Study. Studying more and more and finding out all the different ways the Bible fails helped me immensely. 

 

If I only had one book to give a new ExChristian to read it would have to be Bart Ermans Heaven and Hell a history of the afterlife. Also Forgeries and counter forgeries was a good one in making me realize that the Bible as we see it today is certainly not what I thought it was as a Christian.

 

On 2/15/2021 at 7:40 PM, FairlySunny said:

I don’t feel ready to argue or debate and I don’t really want to. That’s okay, right?

 

Absolutely!! 

 

It's usually a waste anyway. It ends up being a circular argument and they will never accept the proof you will give them. They have to go through the deconversion process themselves to really be able to see it. 

 

You've seen what how it goes in the Lions den lol.

 

Great to have you! Welcome to ExC. 

[DanForsman]

It's risky to debate religion with people you love or anyone you care about or associates in your working life, etc. You did the smart thing not to go there with your family and friends. You never have to debate anyone and maybe that isn't your thing anyhow. Just saying you have thought about christianity and don't believe it's true is enough to get the point across to anyone you want to share your lack of belief with. If a christian you care about legitimately wants to know more you can share a few resources that were or are still especially meaningful to you, if you want to, but you don't owe that to anyone and even that tiny step further can lead to hearing a lecture about how wrong your resources are. 

   There are so many more interesting things to focus on. All that matters is that you find answers to any and all question you personally have about christianity as they come up so you can be comfortable within your own self that you are willing to look at everything and are making choices that make sense to you. Questions may come up from time to time for several years yet but don't let that worry you. You've had extensive systematic indoctrination for many years and there is no reason to think you will disentangle quickly or easily. Be patient and be kind to yourself. You are learning that you are OK and that you can trust your own ability to reason. We can help you find answers if you need help along the way. I think you will be much happier when you complete your deconversion so try to enjoy the ride every chance you get!
I

 

[Myrkhoos]

Hi.

 

Be in peace. 

 

I do wonder why the bisexual thing got you,

 in my case sexual feelings in general were regarded as most something you can do in marriage, but preferably, as Paul said, do not. :)). Yeah, I know, it is seen as more evil. But again, in my case, seeing and admitting that you are a depraved being in constant need of forgiveness was the baseline. You weren't supposed to ever feel that good about yourself anyway.

 Well, I found two main resources - cult books - Steve Hassan, Alexandra Stein, Robert Lifton, etc. ICSA international cultic association.

     Second - books from other religions written by practitioners - Shamanism of various kinds, Buddhism, Taoism, Zoroastrianism, and religious history - Egyptian, Mesopotamian, Greek, Roman, pre christian Europe.

    Hope you find them useful.

I recently had the insight that Hell is like an OCD thought for me - the more entertain and discuss with it, the more it drags you into unsolvable anxiety. Research it, observe it, understand its effect, very good. Enter into a prolongue dialogue with, neah.Idk may this helps.

 

 

 

 

[Myrkhoos]

1 minute ago, Myrkhoos said:

Hi.

 

Be in peace. 

 

I do wonder why the bisexual thing got you,

 in my case sexual feelings in general were regarded as most something you can do in marriage, but preferably, as Paul said, do not. :)). Yeah, I know, it is seen as more evil. But again, in my case, seeing and admitting that you are a depraved being in constant need of forgiveness was the baseline. You weren't supposed to ever feel that good about yourself anyway.

 Well, I found two main resources - cult books - Steve Hassan, Alexandra Stein, Robert Lifton, etc. ICSA international cultic association.

     Second - books from other religions written by practitioners - Shamanism of various kinds, Buddhism, Taoism, Zoroastrianism, and religious history - Egyptian, Mesopotamian, Greek, Roman, pre christian Europe.

    Hope you find them useful.

I recently had the insight that Hell is like an OCD thought for me - the more entertain and discuss with it, the more it drags you into unsolvable anxiety. Research it, observe it, understand its effect, very good. Enter into a prolongue dialogue with, neah.Idk may this helps.

 

 

 

 

Edit. I mean Indo have part naturalist explanation for the anti sex attitude in the Church or what is the general connection between instincts , especially sexual urges, and morality and self image ( good, bad) but for another time. 

[alreadyGone]

I don't know much, except that I'm happy you decided to join us.