Retreat Announcement

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

I have to put this out there. Not that I can afford to go anyway. But I was looking at the retreat announcement page. Because that sounds interesting and noticed it is on a sliding scale. 

 

 

I don't really get sliding scales on something like this. I'm assuming everyone is getting the same service if they attend. So why would someone making more money have to pay more? Noone does something like this without turning profit. So $700 is probably still going to make a profit for them. Why not set it at like $1000 for everyone across the board or something. Seems like helping someone recover from religious trauma shouldn't be based on income. If I were on the top end of this scale I would call it a rip off. I really don't like the ideology that if you make more you should pay more for the exact same thing. Just saying. Fuck that shit. 

 

But this is my opinion. Which is why I posted it here lol.  

[RankStranger]

I'm sure you'd be welcome to pay the full $1900 if you want.

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

5 hours ago, RankStranger said:

I'm sure you'd be welcome to pay the full $1900 if you want.

Oh yeah I'm sure. I'm sure the churches I once attended would have taken more than 10% too lmao

 

 

[mwc]

     I don't know anything at all about this retreat but since it looks like some sort of therapy I would say that a lot of therapists have sliding fees for in-person services so this seems on-point.

 

          mwc

 

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

47 minutes ago, mwc said:

     I don't know anything at all about this retreat but since it looks like some sort of therapy I would say that a lot of therapists have sliding fees for in-person services so this seems on-point.

 

          mwc

 

 

Sliding fees with up to a $1200 dollar difference? For the same thing? 

 

I don't know how they work it where I live honestly. I'm not exactly in a position to receive private therapy. But I don't think a sliding scale for services rendered would be a popular thing here for the majority of us. Most of us don't agree with paying more just because you make more. 

 

Could be another one of those regional differences that we've discussed in the past. Or I could be completely wrong and it works the same way here. I don't really care to put to much effort in finding out lol. It is just an opinion. 

 

According to the above scale I would be in the second bracket. So I would have to pay $400 more than the lowest bracket. For me and my family that is 2-3 weeks worth of groceries, enough to pay off my daughters braces, a new dishwasher probably, a car payment, a new gun, or a multitude of other things. Just because ya make more doesn't mean you really have more. More money = more bills. 

 

But I guess if I were traumatized to the point it was hard for me to function, that it would still be a good investment, if it helped. I know I have religious trauma and would probably enjoy something like that. But it isn't that bad. Fully deconverting and studying the things I've studied the past 5 years has really helped me overcome the effects of my religious indoctrination. This group has been my therapy I suppose. 

[webmdave]

This retreat is an annual event organized, hosted and led by Dr Marlene Winell. She escaped from fundamentalism herself and since that time has devoted her talents and training to helping people obtain freedom from religious guilt in order to  capture some real peace of mind. I respect what she is doing and fully support her efforts. 

 

Retreats like this may not be for everyone, but I am sure a measure of relief will be granted to  those who find this type of therapy beneficial. 

 

Here is her book, in case any here haven't read it and would like to:

 

https://bookshop.org/a/54826/9781933993232

 

She is also on YouTube: 

https://youtube.com/user/JourneyFreeOrg

 

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

Wow Dave. I wish I could like your comment. I think this may be the first time you've commented on one of my posts. I posted this here because this is the opinion club and it is out of sight for the most part. 

 

I'm sure this therapy is beneficial. I never said or implied otherwise. And of course it is a cause for which I believe in as well. Even I could benefit from it, I'm sure. 

 

But why the sliding scale for cost? Why should someone in my shoes pay $400 more? I'm really not familiar with sliding pay scales for anything other than taxes really. 

 

Is this just how her therapy pay scale works normally like MWC said? Or does she provide the lower income individuals with the retreat at cost or below and try to make up the difference with those that earn more? If so thats a fairly noble thing to do. Or is she just trying to make more money off those that earn more? 

 

It just seems like a sliding scale from 700 to 1900 for the same thing should have a little bit of justification for the higher brackets. Better accommodations possibly? I dunno. Like I said. I saw the sliding scale and thought............. why? 

[mwc]

10 hours ago, DarkBishop said:

But why the sliding scale for cost? Why should someone in my shoes pay $400 more? I'm really not familiar with sliding pay scales for anything other than taxes really. 

 

Is this just how her therapy pay scale works normally like MWC said? Or does she provide the lower income individuals with the retreat at cost or below and try to make up the difference with those that earn more? If so thats a fairly noble thing to do. Or is she just trying to make more money off those that earn more? 

 

It just seems like a sliding scale from 700 to 1900 for the same thing should have a little bit of justification for the higher brackets. Better accommodations possibly? I dunno. Like I said. I saw the sliding scale and thought............. why? 

     The thing you quoted says the costs for food and accommodations are fixed (at something like $350) so it looks to me like the varying costs are only for the therapeutic aspect of the whole retreat ("the program").  That's what led me to believe that this is the same as sliding scales that therapists use.  Just skim this page for an quick explanation of their reasoning.

 

           mwc

 

[webmdave]

I'm also sure Marlene would be more than happy to explain her reasoning to anyone who asked her. 

 

Just saying... 

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

4 hours ago, mwc said:

     The thing you quoted says the costs for food and accommodations are fixed (at something like $350) so it looks to me like the varying costs are only for the therapeutic aspect of the whole retreat ("the program").  That's what led me to believe that this is the same as sliding scales that therapists use.  Just skim this page for an quick explanation of their reasoning.

 

           mwc

 

Yeah your probably right. There are apparently a lot of therapists that use sliding scales to assist the less fortunate get he therapy they need. I looked up therapist sliding scales on Google.

 

I honestly could never use a therapist on a sliding scale. I've spent most of my life scraping by. And have put a lot of time and effort in to climb up to that second rung on the payscale to make my life easier. And I know that no one does anything without making a profit. Unless it is charitable and a tax write off. So $700 is probably still a profit. 

 

It is the way I'm hardwired now because of my life. While the lowest income participant would feel like they got a break. And would be thankful for that. I would feel like I was being discriminated against because I worked hard to advance myself and make more money. 

 

My family makes fun of me and have even said they are getting "It's cheaper" inscribed on my tombstone!   because when things get tight money wise, I'm always looking for the better deal for my money. My son said years ago it was my "catch phrase". 

 

Right now my significant other is "between jobs". And the economical slump has affected my work as well. So things are tight. I'm in financial survival mode right now. I see a sliding scale and my knee jerk reaction is to say "Fuck that shit!" Even if I have no plans, funds, or opportunity to go to such a retreat. Hence the OP. 

[mwc]

2 minutes ago, DarkBishop said:

Yeah your probably right. There are apparently a lot of therapists that use sliding scales to assist the less fortunate get he therapy they need. I looked up therapist sliding scales on Google.

 

I honestly could never use a therapist on a sliding scale. I've spent most of my life scraping by. And have put a lot of time and effort in to climb up to that second rung on the payscale to make my life easier. And I know that no one does anything without making a profit. Unless it is charitable and a tax write off. So $700 is probably still a profit. 

 

It is the way I'm hardwired now because of my life. While the lowest income participant would feel like they got a break. And would be thankful for that. I would feel like I was being discriminated against because I worked hard to advance myself and make more money. 

 

My family makes fun of me and have even said they are getting "It's cheaper" inscribed on my tombstone!   because when things get tight money wise, I'm always looking for the better deal for my money. My son said years ago it was my "catch phrase". 

 

Right now my significant other is "between jobs". And the economical slump has affected my work as well. So things are tight. I'm in financial survival mode right now. I see a sliding scale and my knee jerk reaction is to say "Fuck that shit!" Even if I have no plans, funds, or opportunity to go to such a retreat. Hence the OP. 

     Yeah, I get the instinct.  Almost everything I had growing up was "repurposed" in some way (we did a lot of dumpster diving and garage sales).  Getting something new was a real treat.  I kind of see the sliding scale as a type of haggling except I don't have to sit there and barter trying to guess some magic number that's going to get the deal done.  Yeah, someone may get a better price than me but at least I know, up front, that it's going to happen and I don't find out later that I "overpaid" because someone else is better at bargaining than I am (that's a real pisser in my mind).  So, yeah, the one price fits all "feels" better but I see this way too and, like I said, it's transparent, so I have less problems with it than blind bargaining.

 

          mwc

 

[RankStranger]

Personally I don't spend too much sympathy on our betters.  They've got money aka power-coupons.  They'll be fine

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

40 minutes ago, RankStranger said:

Personally I don't spend too much sympathy on our betters.  They've got money aka power-coupons.  They'll be fine

I doubt any well known doctor is exactly "hurting" financially as well. I just don't like sliding scales apparently. I'm the same with taxes. I think it should be a flat rate and everyone pays the same percentage. Its fair. You make more, you pay more, but you pay the same percentage. Its just personal opinion. And a little political orientation I guess. 

[RankStranger]

3 minutes ago, DarkBishop said:

I doubt any well known doctor is exactly "hurting" financially as well. I just don't like sliding scales apparently. I'm the same with taxes. I think it should be a flat rate and everyone pays the same percentage. Its fair. You make more, you pay more, but you pay the same percentage. Its just personal opinion. And a little political orientation I guess. 

 

Yeah, this is definitely a political orientation thing.  I used to feel the same way back when I called myself a Libertarian... but life experience changes people.

 

I grew up in Southern Appalachia on food stamps and government cheese.  Over my adult life I've slowly worked my way up from the trailer park to solidly middle-class, and as you know that's not an easy thing to do for most people.  Most people can't do it, and IMO I've only been able to because I've sacrificed in other areas of life. 

 

What I've found is that as you get more money... literally everything in life becomes easier.  Every law, every rule, every custom, every social norm... is weighted in favor of those with more money.  And it's not that wealthier people are evil or bad... but often they're just totally unaware of the advantages they have.  It's a shitty aspect of human nature- at least within our society as currently structured.  

 

So I find it odd, sad... even a bit grotesque when I come across (relatively) poor people expressing sincere, gracious empathy for the oppressed wealthy among us.  IMO they don't need our sympathy and they won't return the favor.  They have power-coupons... they will be fine.

 

This libertarian-style sympathy for the oppressed wealthy among us- IMO it's artificial, manipulative, and deliberately cultivated by people who are in the least need of any sympathy or help.

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

On 10/24/2022 at 10:39 AM, RankStranger said:

 

Yeah, this is definitely a political orientation thing.  I used to feel the same way back when I called myself a Libertarian... but life experience changes people.

 

I grew up in Southern Appalachia on food stamps and government cheese.  Over my adult life I've slowly worked my way up from the trailer park to solidly middle-class, and as you know that's not an easy thing to do for most people.  Most people can't do it, and IMO I've only been able to because I've sacrificed in other areas of life. 

 

What I've found is that as you get more money... literally everything in life becomes easier.  Every law, every rule, every custom, every social norm... is weighted in favor of those with more money.  And it's not that wealthier people are evil or bad... but often they're just totally unaware of the advantages they have.  It's a shitty aspect of human nature- at least within our society as currently structured.  

 

So I find it odd, sad... even a bit grotesque when I come across (relatively) poor people expressing sincere, gracious empathy for the oppressed wealthy among us.  IMO they don't need our sympathy and they won't return the favor.  They have power-coupons... they will be fine.

 

This libertarian-style sympathy for the oppressed wealthy among us- IMO it's artificial, manipulative, and deliberately cultivated by people who are in the least need of any sympathy or help.

For the most part I like libertarians. But I'm not for letting the wealthy not pay their share. But I also know that nothing short of sweeping budget cuts and higher taxes on everyone is gonna decrease the deficit at this point. 

 

Dems wanna raise taxes but usually increase spending. 

 

Reps wanna decrease spending and cut taxes. 

 

Neither one of those approaches are going to work. Ill be lucky if I get a social security check when I retire. Ill probably have to pay in my whole life and get nothing out of it. 

 

But it is what it is. I don't think America is going to step away from the two party system in my lifetime. Guess I'll just hafta deal with it. 

 

BTW I would of replied sooner but didnt notice this. I was probably battling it out with Ed in the lions den . 

[RankStranger]

On 11/6/2022 at 12:51 PM, DarkBishop said:

For the most part I like libertarians. But I'm not for letting the wealthy not pay their share. But I also know that nothing short of sweeping budget cuts and higher taxes on everyone is gonna decrease the deficit at this point. 

 

Dems wanna raise taxes but usually increase spending. 

 

Reps wanna decrease spending and cut taxes. 

 

Neither one of those approaches are going to work. Ill be lucky if I get a social security check when I retire. Ill probably have to pay in my whole life and get nothing out of it. 

 

But it is what it is. I don't think America is going to step away from the two party system in my lifetime. Guess I'll just hafta deal with it. 

 

BTW I would of replied sooner but didnt notice this. I was probably battling it out with Ed in the lions den . 

 

Yeah there isn't a lot of political discussion on the site these days.  But I think we can get away with it in here 

 

In my experience, neither party has any interest in cutting spending- they just disagree on who should get those government $$$$$ (and who should pay for them).  When right-wingers say they want to cut spending, what they really mean is that they want to cut any spending that could possibly benefit us peasants, and re-direct that money to their constituents (military-industrial complex, extractive industries, banks, assorted billionaires).  Despite their rhetoric, budget deficits and the national debt *always* increase under Republicans... it's deliberate and predictable.  That's what happens when they invariably increase spending and cut taxes for billionaires (but not you/me).  That's been true for at least 40 years.  They've systematically looted the working/middle class since Reagan, and passed *all* of that money on to their billionaire constituents.  IMO that's been the sole reason for the GOP's existence during my lifetime at least: upward wealth redistribution.  Sometimes it's amazing to me that people can't see this... but I voted for them too when I was younger, so what can I say?

 

That's not to say that the Dems are much better.  But I don't see Democrats consistently trying over DECADES to de-fund social security or 'privatize' (aka loot) Medicare.  I don't see them looting (aka privatizing) or refusing to fund public schools.  Nor are Dems mandating what Americans may or may not do with their genitals (which the GOP doesn't really care much about... but they need bible-beater votes for their upward wealth-redistribution project).  

 

I'm still no fan of the Dems in general- especially their penchant for ill-considered, counterproductive social engineering.  IMO dividing the working class into worthy (POC, alphabet soup, comfortably-middle-class-white-feminists, etc.) vs. unworthy (rural, white, non-wokey, traditional gender roles) is a deliberate strategy.  In service of their own billionaire constituents, who are a bit more subtle and far-sighted, but no less self-interested than the GQP neo-fascists.

 

The way I see it, here are my choices:

 

Republicans:  Vulgar Capitalist neo-feudalism enforced by christ-o-fascists.

Democrats:  Woke Capital.  A corrupt, inept oligarchy offloading their own guilt onto us peasants via half-baked social engineering projects.  Which conveniently divide the working class *while* providing warm-fuzzy feeelings.  Also they love war just as much as the GOP, but they're more subtle and effective with it.

 

Not much of a choice really.  We Americans pray to the almighty dollar and our politics reflect that.