Healthcare, gun violence, etc.

[Wertbag]

5 hours ago, Weezer said:

I identify with that, and how your sense of logic figured into your decision.  It is interesting how the human condition seems similar the world over, no matter the religious belief, or lack of it.  But it seems some of the more radical religious countries have more war and chaos than secular ones.  I have been impressed by what I have seen from New Zeland.  You seem to have a lot of logically, humanitarian minded people.

 

Thanks for posting your story.

New Zealand is now a majority unreligious, just a year or two back they said those in the "no religion" category passed 50%.  We do still have some mega churches, Sunday TV programming and crazy street preachers, but its sidelined enough to be out of the public eye and easy to ignore for the most part.  My parents and most of my friends fall into the apathetic category.  Dad's agnostic, Mum's atheist but both really couldn't care less about the whole debate.  If it's not effecting their day-to-day life, then it doesn't really interest them.  I think that lack of care is pretty common around here.  We just need America to catch up! 

[older]

Wertbag, if I was under 30 I'd do whatever it took to emigrate there. I would find out what jobs you are trying to fill and open to foreign applicants, learn one of them and get down there. You folks have it together in many ways that go beyond religion. I most certainly would not want my kids to grow up here in 'Murica. When we were there a few years ago we found happy, calm, intelligent, rational people, clean cities, good highways, cops without guns, legal and medical systems that work, almost no litter or graffiti, and great scenery. According to your Auckland council survey, there are about 500 people homeless, while in the city of Los  Angeles for example, there are 42,000. According to World Population Review, there have been 28 police shootings per 10 million in America, while in New Zealand there have been 2. You don't waste your national treasure on war, and no one is going to invade you for your wool. I've been in 20 countries on four continents and you are far and away number one for a place to live.

[older]

2 hours ago, Wertbag said:

....

It's always hard to know how bad America has actually become, as we only hear snippets of information and it is easy to get a wrong impression of a place.  ....  I'm not sure how much of the problems we see are media beat ups, and how many are genuine problems, but right now I wouldn't want to live there.....

  

Having been a journalist I can verify that much of it is true. There are millions of good people, and good things being done, but unfortunately the negatives are significant and do effect the quality of life.

 

The current Christian nationalism is very scary. These folks are hypocrites of the first order. There are some tenets of Christianity, which are also found in almost every other belief system, that are valid and worth following, but these folks are selfish hate and fear mongers.

[freshstart]

On 11/5/2022 at 9:49 PM, Wertbag said:

Internationally the US is mocked for its healthcare (the only Western nation not to have public healthcare), its overuse of suing everyone

We actually do have public health care in the form of Medicaid (for the poor) and Medicare (for the elderly), both government-run and both are fraught with extensive problems which is why a lot of Americans question the idea of expanding government control over something for which the government has already demonstrated incompetence.  I really want to believe that a universal system would be superior, but living so close to Canada and working with nurses and patients who have experience in the system there, I'm not so sure.  It seems wherever there is universal health care, there are also other options for people who are well-connected or wealthy.

Your point about "overuse of suing" I believe is at the heart of the high prices of everything from health care to groceries.  I even had college student attempt to sue me (and the university I was teaching for) because she failed a clinical course I was instructing.  (I failed her for incompetence, lying, and absenteeism).

 

On 11/5/2022 at 9:49 PM, Wertbag said:

Yes, NZ scores highly in prosperity, happiness and similar charts

New Zealand and Australia is definitely on my bucket list!

 

On 11/5/2022 at 9:49 PM, Wertbag said:

It's always hard to know how bad America has actually become

I like to think that most people are moderate in their beliefs and actions, but moderates don't make for good news stories.  And the news can certainly have an impact on perceptions.  I remember reading an article (maybe it was on ex-C?) that news coverage of lottery winners, for example, gives a very skewed and imbalanced view of the lottery.  We see these winners on the news making it seem as though winning is a real possibility.  What we don't see is the hundreds of millions of losers being interviewed.  I'm ever-hopeful that the majority of people are evolving in the right direction.  The outliers are the ones who get all the attention.  That being said, the time is ripe for a 3rd Independent party in the US and I wish to hell some true moderates would make that happen. 

[Wertbag]

16 hours ago, freshstart said:

We actually do have public health care in the form of Medicaid (for the poor) and Medicare (for the elderly), both government-run and both are fraught with extensive problems which is why a lot of Americans question the idea of expanding government control over something for which the government has already demonstrated incompetence.

I've certainly heard many horror stories about the US healthcare system and seen the stats which show it is the single biggest cause of bankruptcy.  There are people going on kick starter to beg for money to get medical treatment they require, which is heart breaking to see.  I do agree that a change to a universal system would be incredibly hard, the system is so heavily tied to money and insurance that to completely overhaul that would be nigh on impossible.  

I did see an article by the WHO showing their results for the best healthcare outcomes in the world.  Number 1 was France, with universal healthcare.  I think it was Scandinavian countries in most of the other top slots and for all its wealth the US didn't get in the top 10.  If I remember correctly it said per head of population the US had the highest costs in the Western world and yet didn't have the best outcomes to show for that.

 

17 hours ago, freshstart said:

It seems wherever there is universal health care, there are also other options for people who are well-connected or wealthy.

That is certainly common.  Here in NZ we have a public healthcare system which is usually of very good quality.  On top of that we have private healthcare providers, including private hospitals, specialists and surgeries, which are often very expensive.  You can get optional insurance to pay for private coverage, or you can pay it yourself if you can afford it.  Private providers have shorter queues, better nurse to patient ratios and better food, but usually you can expect similar outcomes public to private.  In my case my work provide free health insurance for my family, and in the last 15 years I've used it maybe 3 times to claim a few hundred bucks.

 

17 hours ago, freshstart said:

Your point about "overuse of suing" I believe is at the heart of the high prices of everything from health care to groceries

I've heard those horror stories too.  Stores sued for ridiculous things, but the cost of defending yourself can just about bankrupt small businesses.  Or at best you have insurance charges on top of all of your other costs, and for a small business trying to make ends meet that can be a heavy burden.  Otherwise, you get into the other horror stories of the public defender's office, where the lawyers are so overworked and underpaid that if they can afford to spend 10 minutes with a client you are doing well.

[older]

1 hour ago, Wertbag said:

...

 

I've heard those horror stories too.  Stores sued for ridiculous things, but the cost of defending yourself can just about bankrupt small businesses.  Or at best you have insurance charges on top of all of your other costs, and for a small business trying to make ends meet that can be a heavy burden.  Otherwise, you get into the other horror stories of the public defender's office, where the lawyers are so overworked and underpaid that if they can afford to spend 10 minutes with a client you are doing well.

  

One of the issues here is that it's often cheaper to settle for a cash payment out of court than to go through a trial and risk a higher amount in damages and lawyer's fees. So it's a form of legal extortion. 

 

One of my favorite lawsuit stories is a case in Sequoia National Park wherein some ignoramus climbed up Morro Rock during a thunder and lightning storm. You can Google "Sequoia Morro Rock" for photos of what this rock is like. It's very popular with lightning bolts. Anyway, this moron got hit by lightning and survived. But he did get burned so he sued the park department because they failed to have a sign at the base of the rock warning folks not to climb up there during storms.

[◊ Weezer ◊]

Having been a Medicare payee in the past, and after retirement personally using it for several years, the system seems to actually work pretty well.  But the powerful corporations are doing everything they can to undermine it.  And like all government contracts, the hospitals and doctors milk it for everything they can get.   And the way Medicaid for the poor is set up, it is a nightmare.  Powerful corporations are doing everything they can to keep everything in the USA private, and drive everything they can toward a monolpy, and more power over the masses of people.  But hey, we are getting away from religious discussion.

 

Our moral evolution has yet to lift us out of greed and disrespect.  Do you think it will happen in our lifetime??  We seem to be on a downward spiral at this time.  

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

This is actually one area where I would like our politicians to do something more like what New Zealand is doing. It really sounds great. I don't like our medical system. Never have really. But the AHCA didn't help it. Not really. Essentially it ended up being a mandatory medical insurance bill the same way it is for car insurance in most states. 

 

This is what I noticed. 

 

I'm a blue collar worker in an area with high industry. Thats our bread and butter around here. I work in flooring. But we also have plenty of other industry too. Form 2000 - AHCA most insurance was PPO. Most people have to pay a small premium out of their check. Some companies pay 100 percent for the premium. Back then i payed $20 for an office visit with a family physician. They paid 100% of birth a day labor costs. Because of that I didn't have to pay out of pocket for my 3 children to be born. After the copay we paid 80% of the rest. Usually that wasn't much. 

 

AHCA - now. 

 

Once the AHCA hit. First the I surface companies played the victim. Which they kind of were. They knew if they provided the type of coverage most people got to everyone then the cost would be tremendous. So in negotiations with law makers they worked out a "lowest acceptable coverage" clause. Which allowed for "high deductible" Healthcare plans that they could market for cheaper and would provide that the insured had to pay a deductible before the Insurance covered anything. With this they knew that most people if faced with having to pay $1500 to $5000 right off the bat. That they probably wouldn't go to the doctor. But they would still be forced to pay a premium by law. So this would keep profit flowing in. Not to mention government subsidies for providing insurance to the poor. They were the real winners. I knew people paying less than me for govt subsidized insurance who's benefits were better. I had to take my work insurance tho since they offered it. Or pay more for theirs. Go figure. 

 

Anyway. 

 

First the offered both plans at the companies in the area. The better one that I was used to at a higher price now. For me that wasn't a problem. I'm a skilled worker in maintenance. I make a bit more than most. So I just kept my old plan. But most couldn't do that. Especially the ones that didn't take Insurance because they already couldn't afford it. Now they were going to be forced by law to buy the Insurance whether they wanted to or not. So between them and the more healthy young people chose the cheaper high deductible plans. Then they eventually dropped the plans that I liked for years. 

 

Well now pay is adjusting and people are able to pay more and are needing to go to the doctor more as they get older. So last year our company brought back the PPO plan. Which was a ship I Quickly jumped back on.  

 

So in my mind. That was just forcing every American to line the insurance companies pockets. I'm glad its finally leveling out tho. Maybe it was just growing pains. 

 

Obama may have wanted a better plan. But what we got was just shit. Or atleast was for a long time. I'm hoping that is turning around. 

 

And big pharma in America. That is a rip off. 

 

Millions of people donate to research to study medicines for certain diseases. Like for instance HIV. Now they have a medicine that keeps it in remission. But to get that medicine. It is like $3500 per month. Without insurance. And most insurances don't have to cover medicines like this. Thankfully I don't have HIV. That'd be hard to pay for right there. 

 

But you get what I'm saying. Its all about money. 

 

So yeah. I'd be good with a better plan. But I'd settle for just not messing with it again lol. 

 

DB

[RankStranger]

The ACA is mediocre at best, though it has helped a lot of people who were previously uninsurable.  But keep in mind that the ACA we have is extremely watered-down compared to what was proposed.  Even compared to the legislation as passed.  The GOP sabotaged it at every opportunity to make sure it would be as ineffective as possible.  Through bad-faith negotiations in congress, through the courts, etc.  They even tried to repeal is numerous times without even attempting to propose a replacement. 

 

Again not saying that the Dems are our saviors.  But I won't support a party the engages in deliberate sabotage of their own country.

 

I've been told all my life that Holy Fucking Capitalism is the best thing since sliced bread because it's so inherently efficient.  And yet Americans pay 2-3 times as much for WORSE healthcare compared with just about any other industrialized country with a 'socialized' healthcare system.

 

And what's particularly vulgar about all this is that tens of millions of oldsters living on Socialized Medicine (aka Medicare) are often the loudest opponents of "socialized medicine".  Many of them would be dead or bankrupt without it.

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

On 11/18/2022 at 2:14 PM, RankStranger said:

The ACA is mediocre at best, though it has helped a lot of people who were previously uninsurable.  But keep in mind that the ACA we have is extremely watered-down compared to what was proposed.  Even compared to the legislation as passed.  The GOP sabotaged it at every opportunity to make sure it would be as ineffective as possible.  Through bad-faith negotiations in congress, through the courts, etc.  They even tried to repeal is numerous times without even attempting to propose a replacement. 

 

Again not saying that the Dems are our saviors.  But I won't support a party the engages in deliberate sabotage of their own country.

 

I've been told all my life that Holy Fucking Capitalism is the best thing since sliced bread because it's so inherently efficient.  And yet Americans pay 2-3 times as much for WORSE healthcare compared with just about any other industrialized country with a 'socialized' healthcare system.

 

And what's particularly vulgar about all this is that tens of millions of oldsters living on Socialized Medicine (aka Medicare) are often the loudest opponents of "socialized medicine".  Many of them would be dead or bankrupt without it.

At this point as long as my extra taxes didn't amount to more than I pay for my premium on health insurance I wouldn't mind a universal Healthcare program. It would be nice to be able to go to the doctor and not have to worry about the financial cost. But I don't really think either side truly wants that or the democrats would have backed Bernie sanders way more than they have. Neither one of them want what is best for this country. They want what is best for them but at the same time they want to do whats best to keep their jobs. 

 

We need a third party revolution at the polls. 

 

DB

[RankStranger]

On 11/20/2022 at 12:16 PM, DarkBishop said:

At this point as long as my extra taxes didn't amount to more than I pay for my premium on health insurance I wouldn't mind a universal Healthcare program. It would be nice to be able to go to the doctor and not have to worry about the financial cost. But I don't really think either side truly wants that or the democrats would have backed Bernie sanders way more than they have. Neither one of them want what is best for this country. They want what is best for them but at the same time they want to do whats best to keep their jobs. 

 

We need a third party revolution at the polls. 

 

DB

 

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