emshi21 Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 This is just a query I've had for ages that I'm hoping someone could answer. I'm 17 and one of the great things about losing my religion is that the concept of sex before marriage is now open, and without sounding like some kind of whore, I'm really glad about that. But it did open my eyes to something. My christian friends try to explain to me why it is sinful to slepp with someone pre marriage (some crap about the bodies being joined together and that it's like cheating, which I really do not get) and I've tried to explain to them my theory that if sex is not important enough to be able to form a relationship on it should not be so important that you arfen't allowed it until marriage. Im also confused about why being gay could be such a big deal. It just made me think, why is christianity so obsessed with sex and sexuality when they claim that its also not very important? And why do they always see sex as something sinful? Is there anyone with more atheist knowledge than me to explain this? Please? I know its kind of a weird question but I want to know! And if you could give me some more arguments I'd be grateful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoneTarus Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 it's simple. it's because it really is important and is a very powerful need that just about every animal (including us we are animals too) has. If they can make you think it's somehow bad and sinful and control it they can control you as well and keep you locked in a constant cycle of guilt and seeking forgiveness from god that you will never be free of because sex is hard wired into all of us. It's just another tool they use to control people. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrNo Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 I think it was originally because controlling sex is about maintaining power. Sex is a fundamental human drive. Creating rules about it gives people power over others from which to condemn them. Now, I don't think that everyone who is a Christian necessarily sees it as a power thing today, but they bought into the lie that had to be created to create the rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOswalt Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 I was taught by my parents that God had made just the right girl for me and, trusting him, I would eventually find her and....happy ever after. However, the professors at the Bible college I'm still suffering through say it is really just being devoted to someone you like. Basically, promising to have sex with your best friend and no others. One side made it some magical happening, the other more real to life but still not without fault. Either way it is just how the others before me have said; they can not control those who are doing such things. They control your body, they control your heart...at least this is what they want to believe. Obviously it doesn't work for everybody which is why we are here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeCoastie Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 A big part of it is history. The society that created the old laws of the Bible didn't have condoms and pills. Sex was a social bond. Marriages were made like business deals and political alliances and they couldn't have their children's lusts ruining those. The same reason the Bible treats sex like an evil thing is the exact same reason it treats women like property. Daughters were married and their romantic interests weren't going to get in the way of the awesome dowry you were gonna score off her. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3DollarBill Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 If you can control how, when, and who people fuck, you control everything. Simple as that. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 it's simple. it's because it really is important and is a very powerful need that just about every animal (including us we are animals too) has. If they can make you think it's somehow bad and sinful and control it they can control you as well and keep you locked in a constant cycle of guilt and seeking forgiveness from god that you will never be free of because sex is hard wired into all of us. It's just another tool they use to control people. Exactly right. Without this tool, xianity would have died out ages ago. People need to feel dependent and guilty in order to put up with all the other bullshit it puts you through. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raul Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 Well,imagine you're leaving 2 thousand years ago . Gynecology as a field is pretty much non-existant. So,there are no condoms,no diagnostics,no effective treatments for STDs and so on. Of course,this will warp ones perception of sex in a negative way. "Sex should be had with one partner,or better yet,not at all! " This was (and is) the attitude of christianity and it kinda made sense at the time. Doesn't make as much sense nowadays though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Margee Posted December 14, 2012 Moderator Share Posted December 14, 2012 First of all, marriage is man-made because the bible is man-made. Most of our rules come from this man-made story book. Second, our bodies are ready for babies as soon as we start our monthly cycles. I was ready at 9 and by the time I was 12, I was looking for a mate. Fell in love with the paperboy. The world has made it 'taboo' to have sex at a young age. I agree that there are some real good reasons for not having babies at this young age. I don't need to write them out. We had to 'draw the line' with some 'standards' as we evolved for very good reasons, but the fact is, we feel 'mating' in us at a very early age because we are animals and still work slightly by 'instinct'. This should all be explained to us at a very young age leaving out all the guilt shit. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greylight Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 As for homosexuality, the bible contains outdated homophobic views. Except, since xians view the bible has the 'infallible truth' they have to make elaborate reasons WHY homosexuality is wrong. I've heard every reason under the sun, it is damaging the gender roles of the person, it is not aligned with how god made them, god's plan was for males and females to get married so they can mirror jesus's marriage to the church. It's just ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
movingon Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 Can't say that I have much to add, other than what's already been said. The Bible waswritten at a different time. It was a different world. You may just have to agree to disagree with your friends. I know when I was a hard core fundie nothing you could say would have changed my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emshi21 Posted December 14, 2012 Author Share Posted December 14, 2012 Thanks, those are some really good points, I feel less like a wannabe slut now! It's amazing what religion does really... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. S. Martin Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 Is there anyone with more atheist knowledge than me to explain this? Please? I know its kind of a weird question but I want to know! And if you could give me some more arguments I'd be grateful. I read through this thread now and I see you got your answer but I'll share a bit of what I heard last night at an "atheist" meeting. The topic of discussion was Lucretius' poem On the Nature of Things. He covers pretty much everything under the sun, including sexuality. One of our group was an eighty-nine-year-old man in love with one of the women in the group. He kept pushing the merits of romantic love. Since it was a mixed group of men and women some kind of lid was kept on topics of discussion. All the same, a former Catholic woman explained that concupiscence means sexual feelings. You don't have to act on them but as a Catholic young person you have to confess them to your Confessor as "impure thoughts." As penitence she had to say a batch of Our Fathers and Hail Marys. The question arose as to how the celibate priest know about concupiscence. "About the time they're arrested," suggested someone. But not so in medieval times when they had their mistresses and entire families with them. Pretty much the bottom line of this atheist discussion was no respect for the religious position on the ban of sex outside marriage. I think moderation in all things is a good rule of thumb, and protection against disease like everyone says. When we are first released from religion we can be tempted to "let loose" in ways we later regret. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duderonomy Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 R.S. Martin said: "When we are first released from religion we can be tempted to "let loose" in ways we later regret." That should be a thread here on ex-C, and it would make a great title for a book. Oh, and to the O.P. I have to say that sex at seventeen is like making a turn against the flow of traffic on a busy road. If it's iffy don't do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamecock1973 Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 Personally, I have always thought that the major religions hate sex because they can't compete with it. For all their promises of heaven and ecstasy, the closest most of us mere mortals get to paradise is sex. It is real, tangible, fantastic...and a purely natural, human activity. God is completely unnecessary for this pleasure as well as the act of creating life- egad! Any pagan or satanist can do it! (What's more, how creepy is it when Christian couples try make sex some sort of psudo-worship threesome with Jesus? Even most Christians are uncomfortable with this idea.) Since all religion has to offer is an illusion, they have to demonize something wonderful. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SquareOne Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 There's a lot of reasons that really miss the point. It's not about control, or supression, or cultural bigotry... The sole reason why Christians are prohibitve about sex is... ... it says so in the Bible. That's it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 There's a lot of reasons that really miss the point. It's not about control, or supression, or cultural bigotry... The sole reason why Christians are prohibitve about sex is... ... it says so in the Bible. That's it. You answer a different question - why are Christians so obsessed with sex. Asking why Christianity is obsessed looks at why it says so in the Bible. It's the difference between the followers and the creators of the religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SquareOne Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 We've obviously read the OP in different ways. I thought that the OP was asking why Christians themselves are obsessed with sex because the original post refers to the comments and attitudes of her friends. So I said simply - because of the Bible. Obviously yes that's a different question to why the Bible is the way that it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Babylonian Dream Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 This is just a query I've had for ages that I'm hoping someone could answer. I'm 17 and one of the great things about losing my religion is that the concept of sex before marriage is now open, and without sounding like some kind of whore, I'm really glad about that. But it did open my eyes to something. My christian friends try to explain to me why it is sinful to slepp with someone pre marriage (some crap about the bodies being joined together and that it's like cheating, which I really do not get) and I've tried to explain to them my theory that if sex is not important enough to be able to form a relationship on it should not be so important that you arfen't allowed it until marriage. Im also confused about why being gay could be such a big deal. It just made me think, why is christianity so obsessed with sex and sexuality when they claim that its also not very important? And why do they always see sex as something sinful? Is there anyone with more atheist knowledge than me to explain this? Please? I know its kind of a weird question but I want to know! And if you could give me some more arguments I'd be grateful. Not saying you are one, but so what if you were what they call a "whore"? Or, had sexual intercourse with more than 3 (depends on whose standards you use, that's what I was told meant it), so long as you're safe about it, what's it their business? To be honest, its all about the controllingness of the Bible, and making sure you don't get what they know they can't have. And they'll shame you because you act upon your needs whereas they're still fighting to deprive themselves of their needs because the Bible said so. And it is genuinely a need to have sex, otherwise you couldn't have the depression issues people have from not getting it. But if you control the persons sexuality and sexual orientation and indeed their entire sex life, you control them entirely. That's why they do it. Power and control. It's disgusting and inherently abusive, there's no other way to really look at it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissingLink Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 I agree that control is a major factor - especially control of women. The whole patriarchal nature of the Abrahamic religions, and the value placed on female virginity, was and is repugnant and bizarre. With women/wives/daughters viewed as property, literally in the beginning and then figuratively on into the 20th century, men believed they had the right to put limits and constraints on a woman's sexuality. That's why many in the church have fought against feminism, birth control, a woman's right to control her own reproduction, etc. They resort to shaming women into being what they consider "good Christian women" - based on a book written by a 2000 year-old culture. I'm not speaking for all christians, but we certainly did see a lot of this mind set among certain elected officials this past year! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 There's a lot of reasons that really miss the point. It's not about control, or supression, or cultural bigotry... The sole reason why Christians are prohibitve about sex is... ... it says so in the Bible. That's it. I disagree. It also says don't eat shell fish and love thy neighbor. The bible really has very little to do with xian belief. They obsess over parts of it because those parts work in terms of keeping the sheep in the fold, controlling the sheep, etc... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akheia Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 This is just a query I've had for ages that I'm hoping someone could answer. I'm 17 and one of the great things about losing my religion is that the concept of sex before marriage is now open, and without sounding like some kind of whore, I'm really glad about that. But it did open my eyes to something. My christian friends try to explain to me why it is sinful to slepp with someone pre marriage (some crap about the bodies being joined together and that it's like cheating, which I really do not get) and I've tried to explain to them my theory that if sex is not important enough to be able to form a relationship on it should not be so important that you arfen't allowed it until marriage. Im also confused about why being gay could be such a big deal. It just made me think, why is christianity so obsessed with sex and sexuality when they claim that its also not very important? And why do they always see sex as something sinful? Is there anyone with more atheist knowledge than me to explain this? Please? I know its kind of a weird question but I want to know! And if you could give me some more arguments I'd be grateful. I also suspect that control of people's lives, especially women's lives, has a lot to do with why Christianity is so wild about sex. Modern evangelicals are more overexcited about sex than about any other aspect of "worldly" culture, and if you listen between the lines, you'll hear their rage that women aren't behaving themselves like they used to and that straight white men don't have the clout they used to over them. With free sex comes egalitarian sexual attitudes and refusal to follow gender norms, not to mention control over when--or if--there'll ever be children for a woman, which in itself expands her opportunities and power. That's pretty much the linchpin though. Lose control over how people view and have sex, and you lose everything else, and they know it. I'm really glad you're out of that brutal regime and starting to explore these things for yourself. Feminist men have a lot more fun! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
falemon Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 I remember being slightly regretful as a christian for having had sexual relations in the past, feeling I had tainted myself through my folly. Like heroin, I guess the simple fact that sex provides just about the greatest pleasure available to man makes it stand out above all over acts. It is such a natural urge to try to fight against, like yawning. It's the force every christian is fighting against, and especially since we are living after the romantic age and are looking for that all encompassing passion of love to accompany our engagement, it is only natural that sexuality becomes a big contention in the lives of christianity. I've seen many groups of christians growing massively be being centred around being a sort of dating hub in the sense that dating is encouraged, and after 6 months people are expected to either get engaged so they can enjoy having sex with each other or figure out the person isn't right. Creates a quick turnaround time for marriage and takes the pressure off of dating a little because they present dating and even engagement to a sense as dipping the toes. Plus their marriage ceremonies might be toned down to reduce the perceived cost. I've seen a group where they have blind marriages as an option, which they combine with strong messages of universal love in such a way that most couples are able to quickly fall in love. It is quite ingenious how they managed to create the structure, but when I'm around those women it's like there is an electric charge between males and females (or more so their females and me ). Funny experience: I attended a christian retreat and they spoke a lot of bunk about sex. (1) they claimed some prostitutes were demons that would change their vaginas to pig genitalia (is prostitution common enough to feel the need to mention that?). Pretty sure most people knew it was bullshit though. (2) they made the 'soul tie' claim, that we are tied to everyone we have sex with and need to break them. (3) they said oral sex was bad, bullshit I thought. (4) this one was funny, the pastors wife said, "sex isn't even that great anyway" and that the world was selling us a lie, I just wanted to laugh at her husband because he just looked like a failure to me after that. Oh, and she said we should only use missionary position, wtf. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SquareOne Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 I disagree. It also says don't eat shell fish and love thy neighbor. The bible really has very little to do with xian belief. They obsess over parts of it because those parts work in terms of keeping the sheep in the fold, controlling the sheep, etc... In the New Testament, God gives permission to eat all kinds of food. And Christians do believe that they should love their neighbour. (Whether or not they actually do is another matter.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 I disagree. It also says don't eat shell fish and love thy neighbor. The bible really has very little to do with xian belief. They obsess over parts of it because those parts work in terms of keeping the sheep in the fold, controlling the sheep, etc... In the New Testament, God gives permission to eat all kinds of food. And Christians do believe that they should love their neighbour. (Whether or not they actually do is another matter.) Yes, in the New Testament Saul of Tarsus was God. He did not hesitate to make up anything he liked and dictate it as the word of God. And sure enough modern Christians will quote him saying "God says . . . ". It's good to be God. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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