Christianity Is Perverted

[mymistake]

What does the word perverted mean?  It means you take what is natural and turn it into something

 

unnatural.  That is exactly what Christianity does to a healthy sex drive.

 

http://fiddlrts.blogspot.ca/2015/05/the-duggars-how-fundamentalisms.html

 

 

The huge problem with this teaching is that it does not distinguish between having thoughts and desires, and acting on them in an inappropriate way. To the young person, just developing (one hopes) critical thinking skills, this can and does lead to problems in making decisions. After all, if one has already fallen into sexual sin in the realm of thought, why not at least get some satisfaction for the trouble. All the guilt and shame is already there, so why not try to at least get a little gratification.

 

and further down . . .

 

 

The idea is that women don’t really want sex. However, they trade it (and their bodies) to men in exchange for commitment - that is, a promise of lifetime financial support. 

Thus, females will always want to say no to sex, so the man will have to impose on them to some degree. (Ideally for the fundie, women would - as they are taught to - give men sex on demand after marriage as their “duty” and to keep those horny men from cheating.) 

Again, this makes for problems when it comes to a discussion of consent. Because women will never say “yes” voluntarily, “no” is meaningless.

 

 

The Bible ignores the concept of consent.  A woman's sexuality belongs to her father until he sells it to her

 

husband.  A woman who consents to sex on her own is a criminal who is executed.  So the religion that is

 

based on the Bible must also ignore consent.  Our sexuality belongs to God and can only be given to the 

 

spouse that God appoints for us.  

 

 

 

The resulting sexual repression inevitably fails and when sexual instincts slip through the cracks, all the

 

harmful teachings - hate for your own body, shame, guilt, submitting to authorities, hatred of women,

 

and unrealistic expectations  - form a perfect storm.  The result are all the sexual scandals that plague

 

Christianity.  And Christian teaching about forgiveness sets the victims up to be hurt again while allowing

 

the predators to get away and cover their tracks.

 

 

 

But even if one is able to work through all the misinformation and avoid sexual crimes the reward is that

 

you wind up married to somebody who is equally sexually repressed and now neither one of you can turn

 

off the mindless guilt that was hammered into your brain all through puberty.  Wellcome to your life of

 

sexual frustration.  Christianity took what would have been healthy and turned it into something unhealthy.

[GraphicsGuy]

*Standing ovation*

[Brother Jeff]

Amen, Brother! Preach it! That's the TRUTH! Glory!

[mymistake]

Another good article on why Christian theology creates so much disaster:

 

 

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/05/heres-how-the-duggars-patriarchal-homeschool-world-teaches-kids-to-shame-sex-abuse-victims/

 

 

With this teaching a case can easily be made to blame the victim in some way. The feelings of arousal the offender felt must have been caused by some fault of the victim.

Defrauding is not the only way a victim can be at fault. Gothard also teaches that if a victim fails to “cry out” or be alert (one of the 49 required character traits everyone should have) enough to have anticipated the assault, then the victim bears responsibility. The story of Tamar, daughter of King David, is used to illustrate this point. It is easy to see how these teaching have set up a system where the victim bears the blame. Anyone raised with these beliefs is set up to struggle with a lifetime of shame and guilt while still bearing the scars of their abuse.

[Guest sylensikeelyoo]

Never really thought of it that way but this could explain why sexual abuse is so rampant throughout Christian circles. All of the sexual repression mixed with unhealthy attitudes about sexuality could be the sick formula that produces fucked up behavior within the religion. Great post!

[rach]

Wonderful article.  I absolutely agree.  I grew up inside fundamentalism.  I know what it does to the mind.  To be honest, it's horrifying.  I developed fantasies of stabbing people.  Why?  Because simply, there was no outlet for anger.  I was not allowed to be angry or to disagree with people or to get my space from people that were pushing me too hard.  I was not allowed to be a human being with emotions.  For two years I wore a creepy smile almost all the time.  You would never have known what was going on inside.  And so I am not going to point my finger at Josh or any other criminal because I've come close to being a criminal myself.  I am going to just say that living in an oppressive environment creates mentally unwell people and if you spend some time reading about serial killers you will see that. 

[amateur]

That whole blog and the replies to it, are awesome and is very worth the time to read it.

 

I myself have been frustrated for years over the concept of women not wanting sex but are willing to trade it for commitment and financial security.  I was born in 1964, so for my whole life the Pill was around (it first was approved by the FDA in May of 1960), and to me that makes it clear that women enjoy sex and don't want to get pregnant unless they wish.  From the first time I felt my hormones begin frolicking, I was interested in sexuality and by attractive people, and enjoyed feeling lustful.  I kept my vagina in my pants, however, not because of prudishness or religion, but because in my family we have breast and other cancers that seem to be triggered by the hormones in the Pill, and I waited for sex until I was confident in a good combination of non-hormonal birth control that I felt would work for me (and it did, perfectly).  But from the beginning, I can firmly state that I have truly enjoyed sex and enjoyed my partners, and was well aware that towards the majority of those partners I had no interest in a relationship or long-term relationship, and they didn't even have to pay for dinner or buy me a present.  The two men I wished to marry, I did, but there was no bartering of my sexuality for either of those men.  We joyfully shared our sexuality, and a special love and commitment grew alongside that.

 

I find it frustrating that in 2015 you can still hear preachers insisting that sexuality and lust is a male problem, and that women somehow need protected from that.  I find it frustrating that young people are instructed to avoid their lustful thoughts (how is that even possible????) and to marry young.  One of the true joys of my life has been embracing my lustful nature and enjoying looking at/talking to/flirting with/giggling about/having sex with some beautiful, attractive, sexy people.  We have shared in some sweet, beautiful, fun joy in this life by sharing some time and our bodies.  In no way has that caused a problem in either my first marriage (ended for reasons not to do with jealousy or affairs) or my second marriage.

 

I find it frustrating that in 2015, as soon as a man says he has watched or seen porn, that preachers and religious counselors immediately label him as a "porn addict."  It takes a lot more than occasional viewing to make an addict.  And they always insist it's the man who's the porn addict; apparently, women in their Religion World never view porn or find it arousing.  Come on, quit being disingenuous!  Sexuality is interesting and fascinating and arousing, whether it's written or photographed or videoed, and it's interesting to many men and women, who are not addicted to it, just find it arousing.

 

If people, when they are young, had a good sex/sexuality/birth control education, I think young men and women would not be so screwed up by thinking sex is "bad" unless you're married.  Even though I grew up going to church, my parents were honest and realistic about sex so the church didn't affect me much that way.  My parents weren't very good at talking about sex openly (being born in the 1920's and 1930's -- they were decent for their time, but not perfect, and that's ok), but they encouraged us to read whatever we wanted, and they never made sex to be dirty.  In fact, whenever my dad told an off-color joke or story, which wasn't often, or if we watched a movie with sex in it, he never said it was a dirty joke or dirty story or dirty movie.  Rather, he always called it a sexy joke, a sexy story, or a sexy movie.  In my mind, because of that, sex was always associated with being sexy rather than dirty.

 

I am also frustrated that in  2015, victims of rape or sexual assault are still made to feel guilty or ashamed.  No.  The perpetrator was at fault.  The victim was raped or assaulted, and those have nothing to do with sex, but power.  No victim should ever feel like it was their fault.  This was something discussed in the 1970's when I was a kid, and I understood it completely, and I am still shocked that there are people that still don't understand that.  I am still shocked when I hear that certain people still don't believe a spouse or a prostitute can be raped.  None of this is a new concept.

[ironhorse]

To use Bill Gothard's teachings to conclude that Christianity is perverted is a bit unfair.

Red flags have been sent up for decades on this charlatan.

Here’s a few…

 

Christianity Today 1981:

 

The Gothard controversy erupted publicly last summer when it became known that Steve Gothard had engaged in sexual intercourse with a number of secretaries who had been working for him at the northwoods retreat (CT, Aug. 8, 1980, p. 46; Sept. 19, p. 56). Bill Gothard first became aware of the situation four years ago, and after determining that his brother had repented, allowed him to remain. But further episodes prompted his dismissal last summer. Many of the present and former employees expressed in interviews their anger or frustration that the situation was not resolved long ago.

 

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2003/marchweb-only/3-3-33.0.html

 

 

 

Chicago Tribune 1992:

“When Bill Gothard established his Christian ministry in 1961, he had little money. His headquarters was his La Grange home. Now Gothard commands the Institute in Basic Life Principles, a religious empire based in Oak Brook and Hinsdale with worldwide programs and $33 million in assets. Its growth came quietly and without fanfare.”

“``We all put up with a lot of things because we were going to change the world,`` said Linda Taylor, a former institute cook who now lives in Portland, Ore. ``Somewhere along the line, he got lost. Bill got buried in his own power.``
Institute employees ``look to Bill as their guru,`` she said. ``And he is an extremely charismatic man. He can make you think a ball is black when it`s really white.``

 

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1992-12-29/news/9204280369_1_institute-single-family-homes-buildings

 

 

Chicago Sun Times 2014:

The head of a controversial, Oak Brook-based religious and home-schooling organization that has held seminars reaching millions has resigned following allegations that he sexually harassed teen girls and women.
The resignation of Bill Gothard, founder and president of the Institute in Basic Life Principles, which also faced a sex scandal decades ago, comes after the board said last month he went on administrative leave as it completes a review of the allegations.

 

http://chicago.suntimes.com/?p=193111

[mymistake]

To use Bill Gothard's teachings to conclude that Christianity is perverted is a bit unfair.

 

 

Oh I submit that the Bible's teaching are what make Christianity perverted.  Christianity takes what is

 

normal and twists it around until it is unnatural.  Gothard's latest immorality and hypocrisy is only a drop in

 

a steady river of scandals, sex crimes and hypocrisy that we see every day in Christianity.  It started with

 

hatred of minorities, disregard for consent and the obsession with sex found in the Old Testament.  It 

 

continued right along with the Apostle Paul putting his own personal spin on perversion in the New

 

Testament.  The man was obsessed with sexuality.

 

 

 

The instinct to mate is perfectly natural and it should be a positive thing.  Christianity wages war against

 

it forcing people to hate themselves and feel horrible shame for what they have no control over.  But trying

 

to suppress the sex drive leads to all kinds of mental issues and problems.  Most people wind up miserable

 

for years over nothing at all.  This is needless suffering.  However those who are already predisposed to

 

sexual crimes find Christianity to be the ultimate playground.  There is an endless supply of victims who

 

have already been trained to trust, forgive and trust again.  The Christian dogma of blaming the victim and

 

submitting to authorities fits perfectly.  Christianity is perverted.

 

[ironhorse]

I'm sticking with sex since that topic was in the first post....

 

and a favorite subject of mine.

 

I like sex! I love having sex with my wife. I'm a happy husband

 

God created sex. I'm not complaining.

 

Sure, the Bible contains dozens of accounts of sexual misconduct and perversions. What do you expect?

The stories are about real people.

[midniterider]

I'm sticking with sex since that topic was in the first post....

 

and a favorite subject of mine.

 

I like sex! I love having sex with my wife. I'm a happy husband

 

God created sex. I'm not complaining.

 

Sure, the Bible contains dozens of accounts of sexual misconduct and perversions. What do you expect?

The stories are about real people.

 

How about sex with another consenting couple? And how about some porn? Is it ok to have sex before marriage? How about homosexual sex? Anal sex? Did God create bondage, discipline, sadism and masochism? Is masturbation ok? 

 

And why is something a perversion if it causes no harm to anyone? 

[duderonomy]

I'm sticking with sex since that topic was in the first post....

 

and a favorite subject of mine.    Sex was a subject in the first post, but the topic was perversion. You know it and responded to it in your post #8. It's too late to change the topic now, Ironhorse. That isn't even a nice try. 

 

I like sex! I love having sex with my wife. I'm a happy husband   I'll bypass the one liner comedy gold here because I really want to stay on the high road right now. 

 

God created sex. I'm not complaining. You will when you get older, trust me. She will start the complaining, and you will soon join in. It will devolve from there.  Don't worry, God will get you through this and see to it that you have sex with only that one woman for the rest of your life.

By the way, do you have any proof that God created sex? Why would He put the snack bar so close to the shit house? 

 

Sure, the Bible contains dozens of accounts of sexual misconduct and perversions. What do you expect? Well, I used to expect the Word of God, but then...

The stories are about real people. ...I realized that the Word of God was written by perverted humans. Doy!

[mymistake]

I'm sticking with sex since that topic was in the first post....

 

and a favorite subject of mine.

 

I like sex! I love having sex with my wife. I'm a happy husband

 

 

 

 

 

I would have given you an up vote if only you had stopped here.  So far that was a nice post.

 

 

But then you had to . . . 

 

 

God created sex. I'm not complaining.

 

Sure, the Bible contains dozens of accounts of sexual misconduct and perversions. What do you expect?

The stories are about real people.

 

 

Very few people mentioned in the Bible were real.  God didn't create sex.  Sex evolved over the eons that

 

life has been on this planet.  That is why there are slugs that have no gender.  That is why there are fish who

 

are born female and later on switch to male.  Life finds a way.

[EyesOpened]

 

I'm sticking with sex since that topic was in the first post....

 

and a favorite subject of mine.

 

I like sex! I love having sex with my wife. I'm a happy husband

 

 

I would have given you an up vote if only you had stopped here. So far that was a nice post.

 

 

But then you had to . . .

 

God created sex. I'm not complaining.

 

Sure, the Bible contains dozens of accounts of sexual misconduct and perversions. What do you expect?

 

The stories are about real people.

 

 

Very few people mentioned in the Bible were real. God didn't create sex. Sex evolved over the eons that

 

life has been on this planet. That is why there are slugs that have no gender. That is why there are fish who

 

are born female and later on switch to male. Life finds a way.

Agree with MM. Also, why would God even waste his time with the whole reproduction process when he could have just created the whole human race at once and had his pet project all set, right then and there?

[Geezer]

What is a sexual addiction? If a married Christian couple are having sex three or more times a day, every day.....do they have a sexual addiction? Well, according the Christian definition of what constitutes a sexual addiction, at least as I understand that term, they do not. They are simply a couple that is very much in love & that makes Jesus happen.

 

But........If you're a male (females are apparently immune to becoming addicted to sex) and you view porn on a daily basis you are addicted to sex. If, however, you are either male or female and are having sex daily with your significant other then you are a sinner, and I assume you are also a sex addict. Marriage & being Male are apparently the triggers that determine whether or not you're a sex addict.

 

Good sex as defined by Christian fundamentalism is between a married male and female and the intercourse must take place at night, lights off, covers pulled up and both parities nakedness should be covered as much as possible......and no peeking!, no explicit sex talk either, the words pussy, cock, and fuck are definitely a no no , and no screaming or acting like a fool when the magic moment arrives (assuming it does). And there are certain holes where the penis definitely should not be entering under any circumstances.  Oh yeah, and sex is only for procreation purposes.

 

And never, never, forget that Jesus is watching listening and taking notes.  Just stay within the God given guidelines and you'll be okay and Jesus will be happy.......and maybe a little turned on from watching you having sex. MMmmmm, does Jesus even have a penis? I don't think the bible indicates whether he did or not. Why would he need one? He probably doesn't, but he apparently likes to watch.

[bornagainathiest]

Please provide evidence from outside the Bible and your personal beliefs that God created sex, Ironhorse.

 

You've made the claim, now justify it!

[mymistake]

What is a sexual addiction? If a married Christian couple are having sex three or more times a day, every day.....do they have a sexual addiction? Well, according the Christian definition of what constitutes a sexual addiction, at least as I understand that term, they do not. They are simply a couple that is very much in love & that makes Jesus happen.

 

But........If you're a male (females are apparently immune to becoming addicted to sex) and you view porn on a daily basis you are addicted to sex. If, however, you are either male or female and are having sex daily with your significant other then you are a sinner, and I assume you are also a sex addict. Marriage & being Male are apparently the triggers that determine whether or not you're a sex addict.

 

Good sex as defined by Christian fundamentalism is between a married male and female and the intercourse must take place at night, lights off, covers pulled up and both parities nakedness should be covered as much as possible......and no peeking!, no explicit sex talk either, the words pussy, cock, and fuck are definitely a no no , and no screaming or acting like a fool when the magic moment arrives (assuming it does). And there are certain holes where the penis definitely should not be entering under any circumstances.  Oh yeah, and sex is only for procreation purposes.

 

And never, never, forget that Jesus is watching listening and taking notes.  Just stay within the God given guidelines and you'll be okay and Jesus will be happy.......and maybe a little turned on from watching you having sex. MMmmmm, does Jesus even have a penis? I don't think the bible indicates whether he did or not. Why would he need one? He probably doesn't, but he apparently likes to watch.

 

 

Actually the Bible is very clear about the Holy Penis.  Jesus was circumcised.  Which leaves one to wonder

 

what became of the Holy Foreskin.  It was originally part of God.  Was it still part of God after being cut off?

 

Or does dismemberment remove the Godness?

 

 

 

On a serious note:

 

Sexual addiction does exist but the vast majority of what you hear about it is Christianity doing witch hunts

 

and spreading propaganda.  As with anything else, it becomes an addiction when it starts interfering with

 

your normal life.  So if you start having sex at work (or any other time/place when it is inappropriate) then

 

you might have an addiction you might want to deal with.  Notice that only applies to the actual sex.  If the

 

guilt about sex is interfering with your life then you were simply raised in a perverted cult that is obsessed

 

about and demonizes sex.  The cure is to become an ex-Chrsitan and reject the Christian ideas about sex.

[duderonomy]

 

 

 

Actually the Bible is very clear about the Holy Penis.  Jesus was circumcised.  Which leaves one to wonder

 

what became of the Holy Foreskin.  It was originally part of God.  Was it still part of God after being cut off?

 

Or does dismemberment remove the Godness?

 

 

 

 

 

I think they keep the Holy Foreskin in that same place they keep the Shroud of Turin.  I understand they also have a spot reserved there for Bono's sunglasses.  

[midniterider]

I'm sticking with sex since that topic was in the first post....

 

and a favorite subject of mine.

 

I like sex! I love having sex with my wife. I'm a happy husband

 

God created sex. I'm not complaining.

 

Sure, the Bible contains dozens of accounts of sexual misconduct and perversions. What do you expect?

The stories are about real people.

 

In the heat of the moment, I bet the climax feels better than praising Jesus...  

[TheRedneckProfessor]

Please provide evidence from outside the Bible and your personal beliefs that God created sex, Ironhorse.

 

You've made the claim, now justify it!

Ironhorse also made the claim that he loves having sex with his wife.  Unfortunately, the only other source to support this claim would be Mrs. Ironhorse; and she might not appreciate having her sex life broadcast in front of a bunch of godless heathens like us.

[ironhorse]

BAA, "please provide evidence"

 

You know that is a dead end question. I don't claim to be able to prove there is a God to you. I have said that many times here.

It would not even matter if I tried to explain my reasoning. You have your reasons for not believing. That's your choice. Fine, can we get beyond requiring concrete proof?

 

Remember, we could not even agree on the definition of "epicurean".

 

 

 

TheRedneckProfessor: You very close to correct. I assure you Mrs. Ironhorse would not be happy with me if I added anymore to my initial comment.

[mymistake]

BAA, "please provide evidence"

 

You know that is a dead end question. I don't claim to be able to prove there is a God to you. I have said that many times here.

It would not even matter if I tried to explain my reasoning. You have your reasons for not believing. That's your choice. Fine, can we get beyond requiring concrete proof?

 

 

 

Yes!  Yes we can!  Stop trying to convince people here to join your religion and we will stop demanding

 

that you provide empirical evidence that it isn't a fraud.  We could talk about music or anything else you

 

like.  It is only your insistence that it's cool to be Christian that evokes our challenge to you.  We don't

 

march into your church service on Sunday morning and try to turn the congregation into ex-Christians.

 

You can return the favor by not coming to our refuge in an effort to lead us back to Christianity.

[ironhorse]

mymistake,

 

I can return the favor by not coming "our refuge"?

 

I don't post in other forums in this community. I only post in The Lion's Den.

 

This is a place where Christians can express their faith. That is what I am doing.

 

Please find a quote by me where I have demanded or insisted you accept the Christian faith or

where I have ridiculed those who are not Christians.

 

I'm not here to badger or slam people.

[mymistake]

 

 

This is a place where Christians can express their faith. That is what I am doing.

 

 

 

Very well.  Then we shall never stop demanding empirical evidence that your fairy tail holds water.  Oh, is

 

your fairy tail fresh out of evidence?  Too bad.  May the entire world wake up and realize that there is no

 

sound reason to follow any of it.  Christianity is perverted and we will all be much better off when that cult

 

fades into disbelief.

[sdelsolray]

BAA, "please provide evidence"

 

You know that is a dead end question. I don't claim to be able to prove there is a God to you. I have said that many times here.

It would not even matter if I tried to explain my reasoning. You have your reasons for not believing. That's your choice. Fine, can we get beyond requiring concrete proof?

 

Remember, we could not even agree on the definition of "epicurean".

 

 

 

TheRedneckProfessor: You very close to correct. I assure you Mrs. Ironhorse would not be happy with me if I added anymore to my initial comment.

Note how disingenuous this poster is.

 

BAA's request (it was not a question) was for Ironhorse to provide evidence that 'God created sex'.  That was simply because Ironhorse made the bald assertion "God created sex'.  So far, simple as pie.

 

Now, look how Ironhorse has quote mined BAA's request and converted it into 'please provide evidence' and Ironhorse responds with his standard apologetic that he cannot "prove there is a God to [bAA]".

 

Well, BAA didn't ask him to "prove" anything, just to provide evidence (other than what's in the Bible and other than Ironhorse's personal beliefs) that God created sex.

 

We can always count on Ironhorse to demonstrate shallowness, emptiness, intellectual dishonesty and passive aggressive behavior, among other things.