The Planned Parenthood Smear Is Bullshit

[Lilith666]

https://dragonsember.wordpress.com/2015/07/28/the-baby-market-saga-a-little-research-never-hurts/

Sorry I can't figure out how to paste the article on my mobile, but click the link and you can comment on Wordpress if you so desire, no account needed.

This whole thing is such garbage. Fox is STILL hyping it: "Even Hillary said the videos are disturbing!" and they have not made the most feeble attempt as far as I have seen to analyze the videos.

Thoughts?

 

P.S. If you liked my article, or disagreed and think my blog posts are worth reading (I do stuff besides abortion), would you share them? I just got started about two weeks ago and am trying to establish a readership. Thanks so much!

[amateur]

I agree.  From what I've read, it's bullshit.  They edit down a couple hours of an interview, and have an agenda.

 

I don't want to be in this conversation any further.  I am all for legal, safe abortion.  But both sides of the abortion debate have some unreasonable people.

[Will02]

This whole thing sounds like a setup to me. It's like that heavily-edited ACORN video they were parading around back in 2008/2009.

 

 

Basically, a bunch of limp-dicked old men are afraid of women controlling their own bodies. That's the repub party in a nutshell. *spits*.

[mymistake]

Now it has escalated to cyber attacks.

 

http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/30/politics/planned-parenthood-website-hacked/index.html

[SilentLoner]

This whole thing sounds like a setup to me. It's like that heavily-edited ACORN video they were parading around back in 2008/2009.

 

Its the exact same thing. The extremists created a fake group, likely deceving the IRS and credit companies, presenting fake government ID's for over three years to record something not even illegal.

 

And get this - GOP leaders saw the vid around a month before news about it broke. So much for suddenly being outraged eh?

[duderonomy]

Edited or not, I found the videos macabre.  

Lots of videos are edited. Have you ever seen a movie trailer? It gives you an idea of what the movie is all about, right?

I understand that the entire unedited versions of the videos are on that groups website. I don't know, because I haven't looked. 

 

Am I the only one that thinks being flippant about selling body parts is a little wrong ("I want a Ferrari"), or that poking around at human body parts in a Petri dish ( "where are the legs?" "it's a boy") is a bit over the top?

 

In my humble opinion, that is some disgusting stuff, but I guess it's OK because those babies, with their own DNA and crunchable body parts weren't fully human just like black people weren't fully human in the US back in the day.

[Will02]

From what I heard, PP was just trying to recoup the costs of storage and transport. It takes money to do that.  This fetus tissue is where stem cells and other things for medical research comes from, it's just how things are since there's really nowhere else to get it. I'd rather it be used for something beneficial than be thrown out in some dumpster to rot.

 

Also, they weren't offering them for sale to just anyone on Ebay or anything like that ("Hey! anyone wanna buy a fetus in a jar? Special: 2 / $10 today!") , so "selling" is kind of a loaded term here.

[duderonomy]

From what I heard, PP was just trying to recoup the costs of storage and transport. It takes money to do that.  This fetus tissue is where stem cells and other things for medical research comes from, it's just how things are since there's really nowhere else to get it. I'd rather it be used for something beneficial than be thrown out in some dumpster to rot.

 

Also, they weren't offering them for sale to just anyone on Ebay or anything like that ("Hey! anyone wanna buy a fetus in a jar? Special: 2 / $10 today!") , so "selling" is kind of a loaded term here.

 

Then why were they discussing costs and haggling over money? They weren't selling body parts on Ebay, sure, but they were willing to discuss selling them to obviously real people that were representatives of...

 

You have to follow the money, weather it's PP or Benny Hinn, IMHO. 

[VacuumFlux]

Am I the only one that thinks being flippant about selling body parts is a little wrong ("I want a Ferrari"), or that poking around at human body parts in a Petri dish ( "where are the legs?" "it's a boy") is a bit over the top?

 

Medical professionals have to stay detached in order to do their jobs and stay sane. A surgeon, for example, can't afford to feel grossed out or bad for their patient; they need to stay calm and focused. Anyone who deals with that sort of medical work day in and day gets that way. They may not be as blatant around it in front of the public because they know people will freak out, but around each other, they need to decompress and speak honestly. In the context of the videos, it was a supposed to be a private conversation between medical personnel. Do you think the doctors and nurses discussing a case in the hospital bother with bedside manner when they're talking to each other out of hearing range of the patient? I would hope they don't; they need to be honest with each other and themselves about what's going on. Being gentle is only for informing the patient and their loved ones.

 

The joke about the Ferrari was pointing out that they're NOT making money off the sales. The price tags I heard were in the $100 range; no way are body parts going for that low on the market! Body parts, either donations from cadavers or a tumor that just got cut out of a living person and is being tested to see if it's malignant, are treated as biohazards and they're fragile. You have to keep the cold and isolated from the environment and I have no idea what else. And you have to provide all of that during transport too. That's what they're getting money for, not for the organs themselves. At the prices they were naming, there's no way they could be making a profit off of it.

 

I also noticed in the video there were comments about "I don't know, is that too low? I'll have to check the going rate". That part sounded like tissue donation isn't something they do often enough to know what the storage and transportation costs are going to be. If this was something they did on a regular basis I'd expect them to have price list handy.

[SilentLoner]

Edited or not, I found the videos macabre.  

Lots of videos are edited. Have you ever seen a movie trailer? It gives you an idea of what the movie is all about, right?

 

Just...wow. Ever heard of the concept of deceptive editing? Let me try and help you out with an example of deceptive editing in a movie trailer:

 

 

 

Get the idea of what the anti abortion group did?

 

I understand that the entire unedited versions of the videos are on that groups website. I don't know, because I haven't looked.

 

Yes, they're available to watch, and they show exactly how much had to be edited to make it seem shocking. The uncut video is over two hours long and quite boring, frankly.

 

Am I the only one that thinks being flippant about selling body parts is a little wrong ("I want a Ferrari"), or that poking around at human body parts in a Petri dish ( "where are the legs?" "it's a boy") is a bit over the top?

People in the medical field tend to speak very bluntly to other professionals. I grew up in a family with many doctors, and you would probably crap your pants to hear the conversations commonly had at the dinner table that we considered normal.

 

Also, no one is "selling body parts." Its tissue donation, the only compensation comes for storage and transportation (standard medical industry practice) and it is completely legal.

 

In my humble opinion, that is some disgusting stuff, but I guess it's OK because those babies, with their own DNA and crunchable body parts weren't fully human just like black people weren't fully human in the US back in the day.

 

Its okay to be squeamish. It is not okay, however, to use your squeamishness as a basis for denying women medical care and want to defund an organization millions of people depend on for healthcare. 

 

And enough with that BS comparison. I have been a clinic escort for a few years now, its always a sight to see overwhelmingly white protesters try and lecture black women going into the clinic about "black genocide." Never mind that it was black women that were far more negatively affected by abortion being illegal. 

[SilentLoner]

 

From what I heard, PP was just trying to recoup the costs of storage and transport. It takes money to do that.  This fetus tissue is where stem cells and other things for medical research comes from, it's just how things are since there's really nowhere else to get it. I'd rather it be used for something beneficial than be thrown out in some dumpster to rot.

 

Also, they weren't offering them for sale to just anyone on Ebay or anything like that ("Hey! anyone wanna buy a fetus in a jar? Special: 2 / $10 today!") , so "selling" is kind of a loaded term here.

 

Then why were they discussing costs and haggling over money?

 

 

Because storage and transportation isn't free. You can't just slap a stamp on it and drop it off at FedEx.

[mymistake]

Deceptive editing is fun and easy.

 

 

[duderonomy]

 

I also noticed in the video there were comments about "I don't know, is that too low? I'll have to check the going rate". That part sounded like tissue donation isn't something they do often enough to know what the storage and transportation costs are going to be. If this was something they did on a regular basis I'd expect them to have price list handy.

 

 

It sounded cynical and jaded to me.  From the looks of it, they actually do this thing quite often, and I wonder why they aren't up to date on the storage and shipping costs. 

[duderonomy]

 

 

From what I heard, PP was just trying to recoup the costs of storage and transport. It takes money to do that.  This fetus tissue is where stem cells and other things for medical research comes from, it's just how things are since there's really nowhere else to get it. I'd rather it be used for something beneficial than be thrown out in some dumpster to rot.

 

Also, they weren't offering them for sale to just anyone on Ebay or anything like that ("Hey! anyone wanna buy a fetus in a jar? Special: 2 / $10 today!") , so "selling" is kind of a loaded term here.

 

Then why were they discussing costs and haggling over money?

 

 

Because storage and transportation isn't free. You can't just slap a stamp on it and drop it off at FedEx.

 

 

See my answer above.

[SilentLoner]

 

 

I also noticed in the video there were comments about "I don't know, is that too low? I'll have to check the going rate". That part sounded like tissue donation isn't something they do often enough to know what the storage and transportation costs are going to be. If this was something they did on a regular basis I'd expect them to have price list handy.

 

 

It sounded cynical and jaded to me.  From the looks of it, they actually do this thing quite often, and I wonder why they aren't up to date on the storage and shipping costs. 

 

 

"do this thing quite often"

 

Well I would hope so, as tissue donation is critical to developing treatments for conditions like Parkinson's disease, Alzheimer's, MS, etc. Let me ask - if you remain adverse to "this thing" are you willing to refuse new lifesaving treatments that develop as a result of work on fetal tissue or stem cells?

 

Seems to me that costs like that would be known by someone who works logistics. You do know its not one person who handles everything in an organization, right? 

[duderonomy]

 

 

 

I also noticed in the video there were comments about "I don't know, is that too low? I'll have to check the going rate". That part sounded like tissue donation isn't something they do often enough to know what the storage and transportation costs are going to be. If this was something they did on a regular basis I'd expect them to have price list handy.

 

 

It sounded cynical and jaded to me.  From the looks of it, they actually do this thing quite often, and I wonder why they aren't up to date on the storage and shipping costs. 

 

 

"do this thing quite often"

 

Well I would hope so, as tissue donation is critical to developing treatments for conditions like Parkinson's disease, Alzheimer's, MS, etc. Let me ask - if you remain adverse to "this thing" are you willing to refuse new lifesaving treatments that develop as a result of work on fetal tissue or stem cells?

 

Seems to me that costs like that would be known by someone who works logistics. You do know its not one person who handles everything in an organization, right? 

 

 

Tissue donation? Those were real human bodies they were talking about, weren't they? Those parts, after all, were outside of the womb, weren't they?

 

Wouldn't PP be up on the shipping and handling costs if they did this all the time?

The"doctors" were haggling about prices of human body parts, whether you like it or not.  Why did they haggle instead of turning it all over to the logistics department in the first place?

[SilentLoner]

 

 

 

I also noticed in the video there were comments about "I don't know, is that too low? I'll have to check the going rate". That part sounded like tissue donation isn't something they do often enough to know what the storage and transportation costs are going to be. If this was something they did on a regular basis I'd expect them to have price list handy.

 

It sounded cynical and jaded to me. From the looks of it, they actually do this thing quite often, and I wonder why they aren't up to date on the storage and shipping costs.

"do this thing quite often"

 

Well I would hope so, as tissue donation is critical to developing treatments for conditions like Parkinson's disease, Alzheimer's, MS, etc. Let me ask - if you remain adverse to "this thing" are you willing to refuse new lifesaving treatments that develop as a result of work on fetal tissue or stem cells?

 

Seems to me that costs like that would be known by someone who works logistics. You do know its not one person who handles everything in an organization, right?

Tissue donation? Those were real human bodies they were talking about, weren't they? Those parts, after all, were outside of the womb, weren't they?

 

Wouldn't PP be up on the shipping and handling costs if they did this all the time?

The"doctors" were haggling about prices of human body parts, whether you like it or not. Why did they haggle instead of turning it all over to the logistics department in the first place?

I see you're simply refusing to listen and getting emotional. Yes, this is tissue donation. No one is getting paid for "parts" and its even a massive stretch to call this "haggling." As I said before, the only compensation is for storage and transportation, which is both legal and a standard industry practice. Stop being gullible.

[♦ nivek ♦]

Ahhh, what the fuck, we'll kill those helpless.

Howevar bitch about retroactive abortion in that little critters later life..

 

How many kids have you abortionists adopted?

 

kFL

[SilentLoner]

How many kids have you anti-abortionists adopted?

 

kFL

Fixed that for you.

[♦ nivek ♦]

Myself?

 

None, yet. Fostered 14, two long term (1+year), rest as needed.

May adopt now our kid is about ready launch out on his own.

 

Despite your try we do not require your fixing.

 

Our kids do well fully intact.

 

kFL

[SilentLoner]

Myself?

 

None, yet. Fostered 14, two long term (1+year), rest as needed.

May adopt now our kid is about ready launch out on his own.

 

Despite your try we do not require your fixing.

 

Our kids do well fully intact.

 

kFL

 

Congrats on utterly missing the point. Point is, anti abortionists tend to rave about the wonders of adoption, yet few of them walk the walk and adopt kids. That's why it makes sense to ask that question to abortion opponents rather than abortion rights supporters. 

 

One of my favorite clinic encounters during my time as a clinic escort was one of the young bible thumpers following a young woman who was walking into the clinic, when she suddenly turned on him and said:

"You gonna adopt this baby? You want it?"

 

He stammers: "Well I can't, but there are other-" 

 

"That's what I thought. Fuck off."

[Lilith666]

Yessss!!! I got SL, our resident feminist champ!

 

Duderonomy, did you read the post in the OP? I spent some time writing that to explain that what they did was not haggling: i.e., the Drs. trying to increase the "price" (for the sake of argument, I will call it a price) while the "buyers" (again, for the sake of the argument) trying to lower the price. In the video with Dr. Gatter, Gatter suggests $50 and the "buyer" repeatedly tries to get her to agree to a higher amount. In haggling, the opposite happens because the seller wants to get as high a price as possible. The woman speaking with Dr. Gatter was evidently trying to expose her as greedy. I am not just saying that. The group clearly has an agenda, as they did not push the full-length videos, but edited and dramatized the parts of the video that were likely to get a negative reaction out of viewers.

 

SL is right. Your response to the discussion of fetal organs is purely emotional. I didn't like to hear about it either, but I also don't like donating blood because I find it gross and a little scary, even though it helps people. To make intelligent decisions, we have to balance emotions with logic: Logic which includes carefully examining what actually occurred in the videos. Please re-read what I wrote in the OP link.

 

SilentLoner: It's funny how CFMP or whatever that group is called edited the videos to make them inflammatory and elicit a knee-jerk response, but the clips are clearly not what they are made out to be. It's also funny how some people, including the ones in my own family *hate Saturday-morning politics* still fell for it.

[SilentLoner]

Just found this, great read:

 

Unspinning the Planned Parenthood Video

 

Several Republican presidential candidates have claimed that Planned Parenthood is “profiting” from abortions. But the full, unedited video they cite as evidence shows a Planned Parenthood executive repeatedly saying its clinics want to cover their costs, not make money, when donating fetal tissue from abortions for scientific research.

 

Four experts in the field of human tissue procurement told us the price range discussed in the video — $30 to $100 per patient — represents a reasonable fee. “There’s no way there’s a profit at that price,” said Sherilyn J. Sawyer, the director of Harvard University and Brigham and Women’s Hospital’s “biorepository.”

 

Republicans made their claims following the release of a secretly recorded video showing Deborah Nucatola, the senior director of medical services at Planned Parenthood, discussing the procurement of fetal tissues when conducting abortions. The edited video, released July 14 by an anti-abortion group called the Center for Medical Progress, leaves the impression that Nucatola is talking about Planned Parenthood affiliates making money from fetal tissue. But the edited video ignores other things Nucatola said that contradict that idea.

 

 

 

http://www.factcheck.org/2015/07/unspinning-the-planned-parenthood-video/

[Stamps1962]

I have friends who were and are very active in the anti-abortion movement.  They attended marches, the whole bit. In their late 30's they realized they were not going to have kids on their own so adopted. Guess what they did- they did a Russian adoption and got a nice blond blue eyed girl.  That was their decision and business of course but- the whole thing was laughable. If you are going to go to clinics an yell in the faces of low income minority women to keep their babies or to adopt them out it makes me wonder where the hell they were when they had a chance to put their money where their mouths were. There is a a lot of hypocrisy on both sides of this argument. I am just pointing out one such aspect. 

[duderonomy]

Who's going to adopt the kids if they aren't aborted isn't much of an argument, is it? I don't have to pay someone's gasoline bill if I point out to them that doing a drive-off is bad, do I? Of course, driving off without paying for your gasoline is illegal and stirring around through baby body parts and talking about getting whole organs out without crunching them...including entire heads (excuse me, intact calvariums)...is legal, so maybe I don't have much to go on there. I mean, if it's legal, it must be OK, right? 

 

Am I gullible? Sometimes, but there is a lot of that to go around on both sides of this issue as well. I'm not so gullible that I'm only going to settle for four videos. I want to see them all. Of course, a judge blocked that because PP was concerned about the safety of their employees...presumably like the one in the video stuffing her face with salad and wine in a public restaurant while discussing these things with people that (as has been pointed out) weren't even vetted yet as being for real.  

 

As to emotional, excuse me for being emotional about an issue. Of course, my 'emotionalism' isn't in the same league as another's 'passion' is it. And there are no examples of people getting emotional on the other side of this issue, are there, so there's that.

 

In the end, I think any group that receives five hundred and forty million dollars of federal money should be looked into once in awhile, "heavily edited" videos non-withstanding.  

 

As an aside, I wonder why so many abortions, be they legal or not, are necessary. Certainly there can't be that many rapes or incest issues or life-of-the-mother issues going on every single day. I think people on both sides need more education about the issue from all angles except political. If the procedure is so emotionally wrenching, shouldn't someone be teaching these kids that using abortion as birth control is much too expensive: i.e. it takes too big a toll to be a good idea?

If it's so readily available, and no objects to that, isn't there an even bigger problem in society in general?

 

I don't have all the answers. In fact I only have what I know...baby body parts of what was most likely a viable human on display in a petri dish because it was put there on purpose calls for a little more emotion than the killing of Cecil the lion. I'd hope everyone could agree with that, and hope that maybe we can find a better way.

 

Lilith666, I did read the link in your OP, all the way through carefully, twice. I guess somewhere I didn't realize that it was you that wrote it.  The issue at hand aside, you are a great writer. I wish I had some of those skills for this post, but I don't. I don't feel as if I've been able to express myself well enough in this thread, but it is what it is.