Checking out of rehab (aka exchristian.net)

[Insightful]

A strange thing has happened over the past few weeks - and I think it's a good sign:  I haven't felt the need to logon to ex-christian.net EVERY SINGLE DAY... Don't get me wrong, this site is AMAZING.  It has played a huge role in processing my deconversion experience, finding my new worldview, growing in confidence in what I believe and why, finding freedom from all of the fears Christianity had gripped me with.  Everyday for nearly 3 years, I signed on - eager to hear another extimony, hoping people shared their thoughts about the issues I was facing - and they did.  I had to RE-HASH everything over and over to deprogram myself from all of the indoctrination and to get over the fear.  I needed to be SURE that I was on the right path.

 

I'm sure now =)

 

I've reached a really fantastic place in my mind - I have peace.  I love the person I am now so much more than 4 years ago when I was still a Christian.  Honestly, I was an anxious, chauvinistic, self-righteous, judgmental, authoritarian who preached grace and had very little...    I have peace as an agnostic.  NOT having all of the answers is a much lighter load to bear than claiming to know them all and having to square reality with my “certainty”.  

 

I live now in the present - eager to suck every drop of joy and goodness from each experience - whether that is a conversation with my wife, helping one of my patients, or taking my oldest daughter out for a plate of her favorite Vietnamese noodles (like I did tonight) and watching her gulp them down with sheer delight.  I derive deep satisfaction from helping the hurting – supporting causes that improve the lives of orphans throughout the world, etc. 

 

I love getting to look at amazing creatures and just marvel at how they came to be.  I don’t have to feel confused about why God created them with defense and attack structures if they were just all vegetarian.  And it doesn’t cause me anxiety when their evolutionary relatedness is apparent.  I can just appreciate it!  I used to feel the burden of trying to make it all make sense with my worldview…

 

I love not having to used convoluted explanations to defend the Christian worldview to my daughters.  I am so proud of them for their bright, curious minds and I am thrilled to no longer be squashing their precious curiosity with “the truth” that I’ve already arrived at.  Facing the coming death of my wife’s mother (she’s in her final weeks of life), my oldest asked me, “Why would God make us so that we die?”.  Great frickin’ question!  Four years ago, I would have said, “he made us to live forever, but we sinned, and the punishment for sinning is that we die.”  Now, I can say “That’s a GREAT question.  I don’t know.  What I do know is that death is a normal part of life and not something to be afraid of.  Flowers die and animals die.  What death makes me do is focus on how precious each day is and live it to the fullest!”  [I would like to tell her why her great question is actually evidence against God’s goodness/existence, but I’ve agreed with my wife not to go there…].

 

FINALLY, my marriage is beginning to heal from the ways that Christianity has screwed it up, bigtime.  IF you take the Bible literally, like I did, verses like these absolutely WILL impact how you view your wife: “³ But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.” And “⁹ Nor was man created for the woman, but woman for the man.” And “…For this is how the holy women of the past adorned themselves. They put their hope in God and were subject to their husbands, just as Sarah obeyed Abraham and called him lord.” And “A woman should learn in quietness and full submission.  I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.  For Adam was formed first, then Eve.  And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.”  Is it any wonder that my wife resented me for treating her like someone who needed to be under my authority/headship?  Who should “obey” me just like Sarah obeyed her husband??  After all, that is how “holy women” acted… 

 

The irony is that most modern, educated women do NOT want to be treated this way, even if they revere a text that says they should.  Pity the fool (aka ME) who tried to live that out.  Finally, though, we are seeing healing.  My wife is beginning to revive – to define her own identity as distinct from me – which is so healthy.  We are no longer “complementarian” in our marriage, but “Egalitarian”.  And it is great.

 

I don’t spank my girls any more – haven’t in four years.  Nor do I want to.  (OK, maybe once in a while it’s tempting when they’re being total punks…=)).  But now it is completely offensive to me and just plain wrong.  And I feel awesome about my position on that.

 

I spent 3 years being  afraid of my old church friends “finding out” about me…  especially because it would get back to my wife’s brother and cause chaos in the family…  well now, most of the friendships have dwindled to nothing anyway – and I no longer care who finds out what.  I’m not afraid any more of what I believe and why.

 

Fundamentalist belief is so much like a computer virus – it hogs all of your system resources to the point that the computer can barely function.  Well, when a mind is preoccupied with constantly trying to make a round world fit into a square worldview-hole, constantly feeling guilty about normal behaviors and short-comings, always wondering if your faith is genuine enough, if you’ve given away enough, if you’ve shared the gospel enough…  then that mind is not free to run like it’s supposed to – to live, to work, to love, to experience, to share…  Now the virus has been removed and my computer runs fast and free…

 

And as I’ve come out “the other side” of this deconversion process, my existence is no longer defined by the struggle / the processs / the sorting-things-out.  I’m actually living my life now on the other side.

 

I suppose this site is much like a rehab facility for substance abuse:  you should come and stay while you are sick, get the treatment you need, then get out and live a meaningful life.  Some people will stay back as volunteers and help the newly-sick.  Some will relapse and show up every now and again.  And some will just ride into the sunset.

 

I’m not sure which one I’ll be, but I’m pretty sure I’ve completed my treatment program. =)

[florduh]

Peace is the goal!

 

Should you ever feel like your experience might help someone else on a similar journey, feel free to drop in any time.

 

 

[TABA]

Hey Insightful, I'm REALLY glad you shared this with us.  Your experience just reiterates why this community is so important.  Just the other day I started a topic to talk about the deconversion process, pointing out that it IS a process that can take years, not just the moment of realizing that you're no longer a Christian.  I also talked about what Full Deconversion looks like, and the benefits it can bring.  I quoted a recent post from @DarkBishop, describing his experiences as his deconverison deepened.  

 

So your post today was very timely as far as I am concerned.  I hope it is read and re-read by the new members among us, as well as the guests who lurk silently, reading and considering.  It should be a powerful encouragement to those who feel their faith crumbling but are scared of walking down this road.

 

Anyway, I'm very happy for you as you emerge on this side of the deconversion process.  If you haven't already left the building, maybe you could do us one favor:  for those just beginning the deconversion process, what advice would you give them to help move through the process and come out the other side happy and at peace as you are?

 

I wish you the best of luck as you live your life free of religious dogma and theology. Thanks again for sharing your thoughts!

 

 

[Jeff]

Good post!

Good job!

Good luck!

[Insightful]

Thank you TABA!  I've always enjoyed our exchanges =)  

 

I think something that really helped take a lot of fear out of the process for me was this little thought-logic:  If I am wrong and there IS a God, specifically the God of the Bible who is "all-knowing", then He would have to be able to see inside my head and understand all of the problems I have with Christianity -  celebrating the smashing of babies against rocks, selling daughters as sex-slaves, etc..  He'd also see through my eyes the irreconcilable conflicts with the birth narratives and resurrection accounts.  He'd feel what it's like to be on my side of his "divine hiddenness" - to have felt his absence in a painful way.  And then He would still need to send me to hell for all of eternity yet still be considered "just".  Basically, I reached a point where I felt justified EVEN BEFORE GOD (if I was wrong and he was actually there) that my position was valid.  Then the fear began to crumble. 

 

Also, I would just say: be patient.  Don't rush.  BE OK to NOT KNOW.  Even to be UNSURE.  It's annoying to have an undefined worldview / a worldview in transition, but it is OK.  Healthy even.

 

Accept what is true.

 

And take breaks from all of the reading and pondering.  Get out and live life.   Get some sleep and pick it up another day.  No hurry...

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest]

 

 

 

FINALLY, my marriage is beginning to heal from the ways that Christianity has screwed it up, bigtime.  IF you take the Bible literally, like I did, verses like these absolutely WILL impact how you view your wife: “³ But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.” And “⁹ Nor was man created for the woman, but woman for the man.” And “…For this is how the holy women of the past adorned themselves. They put their hope in God and were subject to their husbands, just as Sarah obeyed Abraham and called him lord.” And “A woman should learn in quietness and full submission.  I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.  For Adam was formed first, then Eve.  And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.”  Is it any wonder that my wife resented me for treating her like someone who needed to be under my authority/headship?  Who should “obey” me just like Sarah obeyed her husband??  After all, that is how “holy women” acted… 

 

The irony is that most modern, educated women do NOT want to be treated this way, even if they revere a text that says they should.  

 

Ahh, yes. That could have been the final nail in the coffin for me, but who knows, once I actually started to take a deeper look into this book I had revered my whole life, I was so disgusted. How could a modern educated women agree with this stuff? How could she look at the behavior of men in the OT and think it's acceptable? Paul is no better in the NT. Right now I'm reading A Brief History of Misogyny by Jack Holland. I recommend it to all of the guys reading this, your wives and girlfriends will thank you for it. It can be difficult to shed the old attitudes, I have seen it in my brother who left fundamentalism years ago. I had to remind him that he has no right to dictate on the appearance of his wife and daughters and that one of the very worst things you can do to a women is tell her what she should and should not do to her body. It's her own, it does not belong to anyone else but her.

You give the rest of us hope, thanks for your story. Mine is only beginning, but you have reminded me once again to be grateful I still have the chance to find someone who shares my values, and not to settle for anything less.

@ThereAndBackAgain had a great question, so maybe if you haven't left the building you have some advice for those of us who are still on this journey.

[MOHO]

You know, @TruthSeeker0,

 

I just don't get it. Mrs. MOHO experienced the "I am woman, hear me roar!" era as an impressionable young woman (10 years older than me) and still buys into the misogyny in both the old and new testicles. She's actually often frustrated that I refuse to treat her as a subordinate.

 

If I wanted a puppy I'd go to the pound and pick one out.

 

Sheesh!

[Guest]

@MOHOThat's sad, but if Mrs MOHO is still a believer, it explains a lot. I look at my christian friends around me who are married, my own mother, my aunts in the church...they all accept male authority, because it's in the bible. You'll only ever escape that perspective when you learn to look at Christianity as a relatively recent development historically speaking, that has had a huge influence. This book is such an eye opener. And I thought Greece was the cradle of democracy! I recently watched The Rise of women on Netflix, and ancient Greece sounds like Taliban era Afghanistan.

[ag_NO_stic]

 

..... the misogyny in both the old and new testicles. She's actually often frustrated that I refuse to treat her as a subordinate.

 

If I wanted a puppy I'd go to the pound and pick one out.

 

This made me laugh out loud! ....old and new testicles....hahahaa

[MariaShanks]

On 17/05/2017 at 7:48 AM, Insightful said:

Thank you TABA!  I've always enjoyed our exchanges =)  

 

I think something that really helped take a lot of fear out of the process for me was this little thought-logic:  If I am wrong and there IS a God, specifically the God of the Bible who is "all-knowing", then He would have to be able to see inside my head and understand all of the problems I have with Christianity -  celebrating the smashing of babies against rocks, selling daughters as sex-slaves, etc..  He'd also see through my eyes the irreconcilable conflicts with the birth narratives and resurrection accounts.  He'd feel what it's like to be on my side of his "divine hiddenness" - to have felt his absence in a painful way.  And then He would still need to send me to hell for all of eternity yet still be considered "just".  Basically, I reached a point where I felt justified EVEN BEFORE GOD (if I was wrong and he was actually there) that my position was valid.  Then the fear began to crumble. 

 

Also, I would just say: be patient.  Don't rush.  BE OK to NOT KNOW.  Even to be UNSURE.  It's annoying to have an undefined worldview / a worldview in transition, but it is OK.  Healthy even.

 

Accept what is true.

 

And take breaks from all of the reading and pondering.  Get out and live life.   Get some sleep and pick it up another day.  No hurry...

 

 

 

 

 

 

These are awesome advice indeed... love the wisdom... best of luck and happiness to you & your family...  I've only been an atheist for 2 months and am still learning... finally got rid of my fear of hell only couple of weeks ago... I totally understand what you're saying about 'the peace'... it has been a very rewarding journey for me too...