Wifey Worries.......

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

Hey everyone,

     I just have this for shadowing feeling that eventually my wife and I are going to have some real issues with my deconversion. I hope not, and right now it's not that bad, but we both make remarks. For instance: the other day i was watching a funny video and it started cussing using the word fuck. She looked at me like I was so horrible and said "really?" To shish I responded  "what? It's just a word and it's a word that we use in front of our kids all the time. Both of us." 

 

So today she said fuck in front of our daughter and I called her out on it. And she responded with "its not like you care! You're moral compass has completely went out the window". 

I told her I still have morals, she said I didn't,  and I said that God didn't invent morals, she said that he did. Etc. It was a short lived spat but it is something that is slowly escalating.

 

Now keep in mind:

1. We both back slid out of church and into "sin" for 4 years prior to my deconversion. During which time we mended our marriage that was on the rocks. Our marriage was better off without being avid christians. We grew together as we both ventured out and did things neither of us had done before. Like going to a bar and a haunted pub crawl we got tanked during. We got so drunk they actually tried to lose us. It was bad.... but it was funny and it gave us memories together. 

 

2. She is just as bad as I am. 

 

3. She isn't going to church now and I hope she doesn't. But I guess we shall see. 

 

4. I was open and told her about everything I found but she will not look into it herself. Today during our spat I told her about the dowry that God required a rapist to pay to the father and how then she would be his wife. She said that's not true! Just brushed it off. And I said yes it is its in the old testament. And she responded with the classic..... well we don't live I  the old testament anymore. And I said nah I guess we don't but it was "God" and his morals that said that. Then basically she told me to leave her the fuck alone and leave as I was getting ready for work.

 

At first we said we weren't going to push each other's beliefs on the other but it is constantly creeping up around the fringes, jumping to the forefront from time to time. And I've only been deconverted since late january - early February. 

 

I just feel like she should know how this hasn't been an easy thing going for me. She sat under my preaching for years. She has known me since I was at my most spiritual point! She is the one that made me see that contemporary christian wasn't "of the devil" as my pastor at the time had stated.  She has been through my spiritual highs and my spiritual lows. She has been through my ups and downs for the past 12 years. Over a fucking decade! We haven't been married that whole time but she was my friend and we dated off and on before then. And she should know that being told that just because I don't believe the bible anymore I have no moral compass is pretty....... mean. It's not like I'm going to all of a sudden screw every woman I see. Or start seeing guys (not that it's wrong, but I'm straight... and married) I'm not going to become a serial killer! I am the same guy that I was before! I'm still doing the same thing as I was when we were just back slid. The only thing that's changed is I don't believe the bible anymore. It lied to me and I hate lies. Therfore I hate the bible now. It is a book of lies and deceit. 

 

I really really really love my wife. She is my best friend. And I am so worried that this is going to end up ruining that. I get mad that she can't see what I see.... I mean it's not like she is a devout christian right now. It's not like everything in our life is still based around that. She has a degree in criminal justice. Do they not teach to let the evidence speak for itself? The evidence just is not there to support the bible. The bible fails so many ways. I can only believe the apologetics versus science so far. I believe we have come to a point now that the evidence is so overwhelming against the bible's account of history that we can just throw the damn thing away and not worry about it anymore. 

 

I always get the vibe now that it's not the same with her now. That she is always thinking. And it doesn't help that her best friend is a extreme fundamentalist that actually believes in demon possession. I have NO idea what she is filling her head with right now. I know she knows I don't believe anymore. 

 

But all that being said. I know she was a believer to..... Maybe the thought that she will never see her grandpa again is to much for her. Maybe the thought that all those early years in church were just wasted is to much. Like I said she won't even look at what I've told her. She has access to the Internet. It's not like she can't Google it herself and find these studies. She just chooses not to. 

 

I feel like my deconversion may have triggered her fundy bombs. It's like they are slowly going off one by one. I guess I will know for sure if she starts going to church again. And when that happens I'm sure things will get difficult. Honestly I would probably attend with her just to keep the marriage together. 

 

I dunno..... just worried right now. Kinda really sucks to be a good husband and father. Provide for and love your family as one should. And just because I saw the truth I'm considered Bad and immoral. 

 

Dark Bishop

[MOHO]

@DarkBishop,

DUUUDE!

 

I totally empathize with you!

 

This is a fucked place to be! Mrs. MOHO is screaming fundy and so is her besty. Neither can finish a conversation w/out adding "god bless" in there somewhere.

 

It's not enough to goto church once/week. They have to do Wednesday night bable study AND harass people down-town each Thursday.  They have several of those little booklets that tell you what to read in the bable and how to interpret it. She leave those gaddam fucking tracts all over the house. I cannot even take a piss w/out looking at one.

 

Anyway we (Wifey and me) seem to have reached a sort of "happy" medium where we kinda know where each is coming from but Mrs. MOHO is such a "my way or the highway" type that she pokes and prods almost daily. We have an executive home, commercial income property, and a successful business together. I feel there will be a major disruptive event if I come out, completely, again and all of that will become the sole ownership of a couple of slick-ass divorce attorneys.  I swear to Darwin that any day now I will get to the point were  I don't give shit about any of that and come out again.

 

Like your wife's friend, Mrs. MOHO and her shadow also believe in demon possession. In fact that is how they explain each and every aspect of behavior in anyone with whom they have any disagreements. It completely escapes me how any adult could think like that.

 

But this is not about me. It's about you and your situation. Just trying to let you know you are not alone. Religion has totally fucked up each of our lives (yours and mine) and sometimes I want to embark on a personal campaign to rid the world of organized religion.

 

Sorry I don't' have any advice for you but maybe we can learn from each other's experiences.

 

 

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

Wow @MOHO you just made me visualize on of my worst case scenario. That is what I am worried about if it continues in that direction. Or even worse some slick christian man moving in on her through the common ground of the "faith". 

 

For now though I'm going to take @Burnedouts advice. She won't talk about ithe long enough for me to voice how much I truly still love her. So im going to write her a letter. ........ hopefully thats better and not worse. I mean I made my marital vows to her. I did it before "God" at the time, but they were to her. I don't want anyone else. I still love her I just can't believe in a fairy tale anymore.

 

Even in my Christian walk I wanted to know the truth. I was reading, studying, and being told so many different interpretations of the bibles "true" doctrine. I genuinely wanted to know which one was right..... 

 

It isnt my fault or her fault that I don't believe anymore. It's just I know that 2+2=4

But the bible says 2+2=6888664553222. And that just isn't true.

 

Thank you for sharing your experience thus far MOHO. History tends to repeat itself. So maybe we can help each other.

 

DB

 

 

[TABA]

Hi DarkBishop,

 

I'm sorry you're going through a difficult time right now with this - deconversion ain't for wimps, that's for sure.  I actually used a different word for 'wimps' there at first, but I thought it might be unwise under the circumstances, haha!  

 

On top of all the other stresses of going through deconversion, having a significant other who still believes certainly adds to the challenge.  My wife is still a believer, but things have actually gone better than I expected since I first came out about my 'loss' of god-belief last year.  She has pretty much rejected fundamentalism and is actually interested in Bart Ehrman and other challenges to Christianity.  But I still can't imagine her not believing in God at all.

 

In any case no two couples are the same, but I'm going to offer whatever advice I can in the hope that some of it may be helpful to you.

 

It's easy when you feel like your eyes have been opened to feel impatient when a loved one doesn't see what you see.  I think it's important to not try to deconvert a loved one and to be respectful to their beliefs, even if we ourselves now find those beliefs to be far-fetched and unreasonable.  Also it 's unsettling (to say the least) to a believing spouse to see their partner abandon those beliefs.  It takes time to process, for sure.  So I guess I'm saying be patient with her.  In my case, I have answered my wife's questions whenever she has asked them (which is not that often) but I have been very careful not to sound dismissive or patronizing about Christianity.  But when I got a copy of some Bart Ehrman CDs to listen to myself, she expressed interest and we listened to some together on a road-trip.  It set the wheels turning in her mind, but my point is it was her curiosity that made her listen.  If I had told her, 'honey you need to listen to this', the reaction might have been different.  Then I got a copy of Sam Harris's "Waking Up" book for myself and she picked it up and started reading it.  So in our case my gentle approach has paid off. She feels like she can question Christianity and the Bible with me in a way that she couldn't with her Christian friends from her old church.  Your mileage may vary, obviously.

 

The fact that your marriage got better when you backed away from Church and started 'sinning' together is a good sign, I think.  But it may be a case of two-steps-forward-one-step-back.  She may go back and forth for a while.  The influence of her fundy friend worries me somewhat.  I guess you have to be an even better friend to her, if that's possible!  You said your wife is your best friend and that you really love her.  Hopefully she feels the same about you.  

 

I know it's not easy, buddy, for sure.  I hope some of these words of mine help you in some small way, even if it's only through knowing that you've got friends and fellow-travelers here who care, OK?

 

TTYL,

TABA

[Daffodil]

Hi DB.  I can give you the perspective of the wife, though I don't pretend to speak for your wife.  I was in the same position.  My husband confessed to me that in 20 years of belief, he had never felt the presence of god or had any answers to his prayers for that feeling that other people he knew seemed to have, and that made him question whether god even exists.  He was very open and vulnerable with me and I did not handle it with the grace I would now.  It threw me for a massive loop and though I already had a lot of doubts of my own, I clung to the little faith I had left with a vengeance in the face of his confession.  I, too, expected him to lose his moral compass and even sarcastically asked him if he was going to go out and have an affair.  He is an amazingly patient and forgiving man, and it was actually his failure to turn into a monster that helped me come around.  It took two years of him continuing to be just like he had been before, combined with his doubts giving me the permission to really face my doubts, for me to deconvert to the point where I have actually surpassed him in unbelief!  He is agnostic and is still open to the idea that there could be a god, but  will wait until there is proof.  I am atheist and though I cannot prove there is no god, the paucity of evidence leads me to the conclusion that there is no god.  

 

It could be that since the two of you were not really invested in church at the time you deconverted she may not be as far behind you as you think.  Any time someone as close to you as a spouse changes in a major way, it causes serious upheaval in a relationship.  She may be fearing that you are on the verge of leaving her and is treating you unkindly as a protective measure.  Keep being yourself and when she accuses you of losing your moral compass, ask for specific examples.  She won't be able to come up with any.  I think your idea of a letter is a good idea if she is unwilling to discuss this in a mature fashion yet.  Keep telling her that your lack of belief changes nothing about how you feel about her or your kids and I think she will come around.  I suspect it is primarily a fear of losing you that is affecting her right now.

[TABA]

Thanks for this, Daff!  Good advice for all of us in this situation.

[Ellinas]

In all honesty, I find advice almost impossible to give.  Every marriage has its' own dynamic that only those inside it can fathom.

 

In general terms, I would expect her to be afraid.  Not necessarily for you, though it may be rationalised as concern for you.  Rather, fear that her own way of life, her social circle, the certainties on which she's depended, are about to be torn away from her.

 

For that reason I agree with the comment above that it is important not to try to deconvert her.  There may, however, come a time when you will need to explain to her the importance of not trying to reconvert you.

 

The import of your joint backslidden status is something I cannot compute.  It makes her current approach the more apparently illogical.

 

If you are lucky, time itself will resolve this.  I think, in your position, I would try an approach of quietly sticking to my position - not seeking confrontation, stating my position when challenged and otherwise leaving well alone.  Whether that is actually a sensible approach, only you can judge

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

I did write the letter. We haven't talked about its contents but in it I mentioned how my faith had ended because of evidence I could no longer ignore. But that I am still devoted to and love her just as much as I did before. Also that she would never have to worry about me cheating on her as a result of my deconversion. 

 

It was a full 1500 words or more but she hasn't said anything else. And I'm hoping that maybe one day she will research the thing I told her before herself. Because believe me I would have never deconverted if it wasn't proven to me that the bible was false. 

 

If anything changes one way or the other I will keep you guys updated. Thanks for everyone's good advice. As always you have all helped me so much ?.

 

DB 

[TABA]

8 hours ago, DarkBishop said:

I did write the letter. We haven't talked about its contents but in it I mentioned how my faith had ended because of evidence I could no longer ignore. But that I am still devoted to and love her just as much as I did before. Also that she would never have to worry about me cheating on her as a result of my deconversion. 

 

It was a full 1500 words or more but she hasn't said anything else. And I'm hoping that maybe one day she will research the thing I told her before herself. Because believe me I would have never deconverted if it wasn't proven to me that the bible was false. 

 

If anything changes one way or the other I will keep you guys updated. Thanks for everyone's good advice. As always you have all helped me so much ?.

 

DB 

 

Best of luck to ya!

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

Fuck! Didn't work! About to be in a situation like some others here. Probably gonna have to attend church from time to time and now she wants me to go see religious movie with her...... ugghhh. I think I can handle church now but the movies still get to me. I know she means well because she wants me to be in heaven with her. But this shit is still very raw with me right now............. I'm pretty sure she wouldn't want to go hear Robert Price with me. And would probably get pissed if I asked.

 

I was really hoping this wouldn't affect this part of my life......... my family is all I have left. And I'm good with that. In fact I embrace that. I don't want to waste time on Christianity anymore when I can focus on my family. But apparently Christianity is too interwoven in my family to not include it. 

 

Next I expect she will want to go to some christian oriented counselor to help mend the divide she's feeling. I really hope she isn't trolling my posts here. Wouldnt be hard. I use this name on video games.

 

I love her without God. I don't need God to love her. Why does she need me to be good with God to feel like she can keep loving me. ? Guess I did a better job at indoctrinating my family than I thought.

 

DB

[LogicalFallacy]

Ouch.

 

Um... not sure what to say bud. I want to say don't go to church, and if she wants to watch religious movies with you, ask her to compromise and watch debunk videos with you. 

 

But ultimately its your marriage, and like so many others keeping the peace is preferable to winning a war and ending up with ashes.

 

Best of luck my friend.

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

Yeah...... there isn't much to say..... I dunno. There is a lump in my gut tho. I don't know how much "religion" I can handle anymore. Especially at this point. I wish I had just been quiet about it until I got past all the deconversion issues. She probably would still be content with not going to church. And I could of dealt with the marital issues later. But I've always been open with her. I thought she would of been just as dumb founded as I was and have come to the same conclusion once she saw what I saw.

 

DB

[MOHO]

@DarkBishop

DB,

 

My heart goes out to 'ya, Bro!

 

That lump in gut/throat can impact the entire day.

 

It got better when I started going to church with Mrs. MOHO - even though she is apparently more intuitive than I thought. When praying over din din the other day she made reference to my lack of belief. Thought I had her duped. My bad.

 

My point is the relationship is good even though she knows something is not "right" so, I'm guessing, your situation will get better too. Time will reveal that you are not an evil monster with three heads and an insatiable appetite for xtians. I know it's a bitch (nothing implied by that) in the meantime but most relationships find a kind of happy medium and the tension smouldering just under the surface dies down to almost nothing eventually.

 

Maybe you could work something out like I have where I do not go into the sanctuary - preferring instead to assist the security crew (church members) in patrolling the parking lot and manning the main door into the sanctuary.

 

Keep us posted, Grizzly Dude!

    - MOHO

[nutrichuckles93]

I'm in somewhat of the same boat. I wonder how much my wife's church people (I don't go anymore) are telling her to double down on the godly presence around me. She's starting to have bible studies in our home, as if having more of it around me is going to bring me back in the fold. It could be worse, I guess.

[Daffodil]

You are in a deeper part of the Bible Belt than we are, so that may make this harder, but don't give up hope.  Reread my post.  I doubled down on my faith when my husband confessed to me and it took two years for me to come around.  There is still hope!

[MOHO]

13 hours ago, nutrichuckles93 said:

I'm in somewhat of the same boat. I wonder how much my wife's church people (I don't go anymore) are telling her to double down on the godly presence around me. She's starting to have bible studies in our home, as if having more of it around me is going to bring me back in the fold. It could be worse, I guess.

 

Mrs. MOHO did that too.

Bible studies, women's din din night once/month ( I called it Critie Bitty night)

Singing warship songs around me.

Trying to coerce me into only having crity friends.

 

Just made it worse.

Pushed me away WHOLESALE!

 

[ag_NO_stic]

Ohhh, DB. :'( I so want to give you a hug right now, this sucks.

 

I think everyone is giving you sage advice though, step back, and take some deep breaths and let her grieve the husband she married who is now different. You are right that you are the same person, but you are also changing in unbidden and scary ways that she must deal with whether she wants to or not. It's not ultimately acceptable to be unkind to you, but we all have bad days. I have experienced many moments that felt crushing, devastating, and unsurpassable at the time...not just with my marriage. I got past them. I can tell you that backing down from pointing out bible stuff has helped my relationship with my husband. He has recently admitted to me that he is "not in a good place with god" but he didn't want to tell me because of how I'd been handling faith discussions. 

 

At the same time, I would be careful with making one-sided compromises. You can be gentle and compassionate with her, love her fiercely, and hold her through these uncharted waters. However, either you both need to respect beliefs or both compromise. I think there is a way to say, gently, that you will not be attending church, but that she is welcome to go. Or if she would like you to go to church, then perhaps  you could listen to Bart Ehrman audiobooks on the way there, or whatever. If she refuses to do this or if you don't mention this to her and do what she wants, she will not learn that this "same, but different" you is permanent. It's funny how empowering it is to demonstrate the fruits of your own morality through actual deliberate effort, not waiting on some spirit, eh?

 

 Time is a great and very powerful healer. Keep your head high, take each week a day at time and  each day a moment at a time.  Some of those moments will suck ass, but you have to allow yourself to feel and accept those moments too. You'll get through it. Those weeks will become months and then years and you'll look back and see that what felt like a mountain was just a shitty pothole in the road that is your life.

[JenniferG]

Oh boy, the "unequally yoked" business becomes complicated. As Daff said, it's hard when you live deep in the bible belt and can't avoid the god and church stuff. Fortunately for me, my husband and I became disgruntled with Fundamentalism and the whole religion malarkey together. He became an agnostic, while I went from agnostic to atheist.  I don't go near anything religious and I change the channel on Christian radio in my car. All I know is that I have to be true to myself. I like the lyric in a song Diana Ross sings "I can't cover up my feelings in the name of love, or play it safe, for a while that was easy; And if living for myself is what I'm guilty of, go on and sentence me, I'll still be free." (It's My Turn) 

I hope you can find a way to work it out so that you can find peace. Wishing you the best of luck.

 

P.S. Have you read Marlene Winnell's "Leaving the Fold"? She covers the whole gamut of topics in the book relating to leaving the church and all the implications that go with it. I found that book immensely helpful. Check out her talks on You Tube. She has a support group, but I see her Journey Free site is down at the moment.

[MOHO]

1 hour ago, JenniferG said:

Oh boy, the "unequally yoked" business becomes complicated. As Daff said, it's hard when you live deep in the bible belt and can't avoid the god and church stuff. Fortunately for me, my husband and I became disgruntled with Fundamentalism and the whole religion malarkey together. He became an agnostic, while I went from agnostic to atheist.  I don't go near anything religious and I change the channel on Christian radio in my car. All I know is that I have to be true to myself. I like the lyric in a song Diana Ross sings "I can't cover up my feelings in the name of love, or play it safe, for a while that was easy; And if living for myself is what I'm guilty of, go on and sentence me, I'll still be free." (It's My Turn) 

I hope you can find a way to work it out so that you can find peace. Wishing you the best of luck.

 

P.S. Have you read Marlene Winnell's "Leaving the Fold"? She covers the whole gamut of topics in the book relating to leaving the church and all the implications that go with it. I found that book immensely helpful. Check out her talks on You Tube. She has a support group, but I see her Journey Free site is down at the moment.

 

Hey @JenniferG,

 

I have read the parts of the book that are posted on the JourneyFree website. I recon it wold be prudent, at this juncture, to read the entire thing.

 

yes, the unequally yoked gig is a bugger - especially when one spouse uses the scripture (real parts or imagined sections) to mentally abuse and control the other.

[Daffodil]

I agree with those who suggest not bowing to her pressure to go to church.  I have a strong feeling that she is hoping it will sway you back into faith and that if you go, it will just make her think there is still a chance to change you back to what she thought you were before.  As ag-NO-stic said, be gentle, but tell her you've gone to church for years and going now won't change anything.  If she was already hardly going to church, then I doubt that embarrassment is the reason she wants you to go.  She's hoping it will restore the "you" she was comfortable with.  Obviously do what seems right to you, but think hard before you commit to that.