Jesus Was A Sinner According To The Bible!

[Guest tariq]

Matthew ch. 4:-

 

Verse 5: Then the devil took him to the holy city, and set him on the pinnacle of the temple,

 

4:6 and said to him, "If you are the Son of God, throw yourself down; for it is written, 'He will give his angels charge of you,' and 'On their hands they will bear you up, lest you strike your foot against a stone.'"

 

4:7 Jesus said to him, "Again it is written, 'You shall not tempt the Lord your God.'"

 

4:8 Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and the glory of them;

 

 

As we all know, obeying Satan is a sin. And the biblical jesus here commited sin, thrice.

1) By going to the top of the temple,

2) By going to top of a very high mountain and

3) By looking down at ALL the kingdoms of the world

 

There are many verses in the bible which say that Jesus was without sin. but the verses here show that Jesus went with satan to a mountain(he left Middleeast) and looked down when instructed. So he sinned according to the bible and there is a contradiction.

 

The only way to solve this contradiction is by saying that Jesus, suposedly god, was FORCED by satan to go with him.

Either accept that the bibles are curropted and Jesus is not god, or accept that Jesus was a sinner.

[Ouroboros]

I just got this knowledge from one of our members that Jesus did sin:

 

Hebrews 4:15For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet was without sin. 29If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.

 

Matthew 5:27"You have heard that it was said, 'Do not commit adultery.'[a] 28But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

 

So, how is that conflict solved?

[RHEMtron]

I just got this knowledge from one of our members that Jesus did sin

 

yeeeeeeup. we established that he sinned and that Jesus was a homo

 

another good example of him sinning can be found here: Jesus Lied About His Secret Teachings

[Ouroboros]

Damn! That's good RHEM.

 

"If you tell I lie, what does it make you? A liar!"

 

So Jesus was a liar.

 

If Jesus was a liar, thief and sinned, then when he died, where did he go? To hell. Did he get resurrected? No, since no one had paid for the sins yet, and he was unclean. This is the logical proof that Jesus did not rise from the dead. And it's based only on Biblical arguments.

[RHEMtron]

yah damn skippy it is!! i love that site. me and skepticofthebible frequently use that site to argue with people on other forums.

 

it taught me how to use the bible, more importantly the OT, to argue against jesus and christianity.

 

so youre right. jesus is still in hell. that's why he never came back to judge the living and the dead like he promised he would.

[thunderbolt]

I just got this knowledge from one of our members that Jesus did sin:

 

Hebrews 4:15For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet was without sin. 29If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.

 

Matthew 5:27"You have heard that it was said, 'Do not commit adultery.'[a] 28But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

 

So, how is that conflict solved?

Add to the contradiction James:

 

Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

James 1:13-14

 

In other words, if he did experience temptation, then he was drawn their by his own lusts. I.E. God lusts.

[Ouroboros]

So Jesus never said: "But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart" then?

[Japedo]

 

Boy! Your reasoning for saying Jesus sinned. Now that's a streeeeeeeeetch!

 

The sin is not in the temptation. It is in yeilding to the temptation. Your forgetting that Jesus was divine and human at the same time. If He was never tempted He wouldn't be human. He allowed Satan to tempt Him so He could sympathize with our weeknesses.

 

Another "crime' of His.

 

 

 

 

 

Well it say's if one thinks about it sin it's equivalent to the actual sin doesn't it?

 

One can not be fully man and fully god, it has to be 50/50 at best. It's the same equivalent as being Full and empty at the same time. It can't be done. Not only that but death could never touch an omnipotent being. .

 

 

Also I'm going to point out your huge contradiction. If he was tempted he was never god. He either was or he wasn't which is it?

[Asuryan]

I'll be back to answer but I have to run now.

 

 

 

It was the 3rd june when amy said so. 16 days have passed. She hasn't come back to answer yet. So much running to do, so little time...

[Lycorth]

And as slightly off-topic as it is, Jeezus™ is a sinner (according to the Old Testament) simply because he fits the criteria for a false prophet found in the Old Testament.

 

Know Your Orchard is a Jewish website that lists all the criteria and explains how Jeezus™ couldn't possibly be the Messiah™ they were waiting for. Jeezus™ a sinner? Well, being a false prophet in the Old Testament is surely a sin, no?

[nick5]

Boy! Your reasoning for saying Jesus sinned. Now that's a streeeeeeeeetch!

 

No. YOUR reasoning for saying that jesus is just and loving. Now THATS'S a stretch.

[freeday]

Matthew ch. 4:-

 

Verse 5: Then the devil took him to the holy city, and set him on the pinnacle of the temple,

 

4:6 and said to him, "If you are the Son of God, throw yourself down; for it is written, 'He will give his angels charge of you,' and 'On their hands they will bear you up, lest you strike your foot against a stone.'"

 

4:7 Jesus said to him, "Again it is written, 'You shall not tempt the Lord your God.'"

 

4:8 Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and the glory of them;

 

 

As we all know, obeying Satan is a sin. And the biblical jesus here commited sin, thrice.

1) By going to the top of the temple,

2) By going to top of a very high mountain and

3) By looking down at ALL the kingdoms of the world

 

There are many verses in the bible which say that Jesus was without sin. but the verses here show that Jesus went with satan to a mountain(he left Middleeast) and looked down when instructed. So he sinned according to the bible and there is a contradiction.

 

The only way to solve this contradiction is by saying that Jesus, suposedly god, was FORCED by satan to go with him.

Either accept that the bibles are curropted and Jesus is not god, or accept that Jesus was a sinner.

 

you missed the first part Mat 4:1 "then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the desert to be tempted by the devel."

 

For Christ to accomplish God's will, he had to face satan and prevail. This is the first major confrontation that mathew presents. The holy spirit led Jesus into the desert to be tempted by Satan, showing that temptation need not end in failure. God let Satan temp Jesus, he didn't obey him. this is a sadly perverse way to obscure the scripture.

 

the moral of the story is that it is supposed to be encouraging to all believers who find themselves the object of satan's schemes. which this whole web site is.

 

"for it is written: worship the Lord your God, and serve him only" Deut. 8:3

 

and you can thank william for my presence. whats up buddy.

[mwc]

For Christ to accomplish God's will, he had to face satan and prevail. This is the first major confrontation that mathew presents. The holy spirit led Jesus into the desert to be tempted by Satan, showing that temptation need not end in failure. God let Satan temp Jesus, he didn't obey him. this is a sadly perverse way to obscure the scripture.

Oh my. Are you saying there was a chance that he could have failed? Egad!

 

So god led himself into the desert so that his rebellious puppet could tempt himself as example to his future clones that he is not temptable (but they still are but he'll solve that by sacrificing himself to himself later on). But what about James 1:13 (someone else quotes it in the thread)? Jesus wasn't ever really tempted as god isn't tempted by evil. It was a fraud. A lie. If god (jesus) can't be tempted then tempted is not the right word and a misrepresentation of what was going happening. A morality play at best but not a temptation.

 

the moral of the story is that it is supposed to be encouraging to all believers who find themselves the object of satan's schemes. which this whole web site is.

It seems you've stumbled upon our little secret. How unfortunate...for you that is. Now we'll have to deal with you as with so many others. With fact and reason (and probably sarcarm and other things too).

 

As for the moral. Would it be "if you're somehow 100% human and somehow 100% god at the same time and you lead yourself into the desert to be tempted you should not fear as you will prevail?" No, the story was supposed to be remniscient of Moses on the mountain with a little "pizzazz" thrown in for kicks (this is a hero's journey after all...he did have to overcome trials and obstables). Or, I can just make some more shit up like you did that sounds good.

 

"for it is written: worship the Lord your God, and serve him only" Deut. 8:3

Well, some serve Odin (there's a good thread on that now) and some serve a hodge podge including some gods from the Egyptian pantheon (among others). There's just a shit load of gods out there (or there are zero) so this statement is just not good enough to act on. I mean in your quote alone this guy is talking to the Jews and the Jews alone and this is one single entity but now you're telling me that it's talking to everyone and it's a magical 1 in 3 in 1 god. The Jews don't even buy into that rewrite.

 

The funny thing about this now that I think about it is that you have the balls to redefine someone else's god but come here and tell us that we're perverting scripture? I don't give a shit if jesus licked Satan's asshole. This is nothing compared to what xians have done to the Jewish religion. But I digress.

 

and you can thank william for my presence. whats up buddy.

Um. Okay. Thank William (it beats thanking jesus).

 

mwc

[freeday]

As for the moral. Would it be "if you're somehow 100% human and somehow 100% god at the same time and you lead yourself into the desert to be tempted you should not fear as you will prevail?" No, the story was supposed to be remniscient of Moses on the mountain with a little "pizzazz" thrown in for kicks (this is a hero's journey after all...he did have to overcome trials and obstables). Or, I can just make some more shit up like you did that sounds good.

 

 

and i am redefining the scripture? The problem with athiest is they want proof and explination for every little thing. the bible does not fully reveal everything about God to us. how can we comprehend it anyway. God is not confined to our limited capabilities.

 

As far as the tempting, here is your explination of the tempting.

 

Heb 2:18 "Because he himself suffered when he was tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted."

 

Heb 4:15 "For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are- yet without sin."

[Lycorth]

What's wrong with wanting some rational explanations for things? It's a typical Xian tactic to cry "waah, we can't understand Gawd's mysteries so stop criticizing him!" but that doesn't sail here.

 

If your god was any good at all, he'd show himself to us, explain himself, and manage to do better than give us that miserable book full of confusing contradictions to rely on for "salvation."

[Antlerman]

The problem with athiest is they want proof and explination for every little thing.

Are you sure they do? I am an atheist and I don't. So, you are wrong.

 

the bible does not fully reveal everything about God to us. how can we comprehend it anyway. God is not confined to our limited capabilities.

I know it doesn't. Most of the other books about God were excluded in favor of one particular flavor of theology. Moreover, I disagree completely with you that we couldn't comprehend it anyway. Why wouldn't we be able to? Man created God in his own image, so if we had enough understanding of the people and times that wrote their ideas about God, we in fact could theoretically understand all there is to understand about God. Just understand those who created him.

 

As far as the tempting, here is your explination of the tempting.

 

Heb 2:18 "Because he himself suffered when he was tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted."

 

Heb 4:15 "For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are- yet without sin."

Hmmmm I asked this elsewhere, but will here again just because I was amused at the thought: Young adolecent Bedouin males no doubt found themselves pondering intercouse with a goat in their wildly raging hormones, and may have in fact had their way with them. Does this mean that goats now and again caught the eye of Jesus?

[freeday]

What's wrong with wanting some rational explanations for things? It's a typical Xian tactic to cry "waah, we can't understand Gawd's mysteries so stop criticizing him!" but that doesn't sail here.

 

If your god was any good at all, he'd show himself to us, explain himself, and manage to do better than give us that miserable book full of confusing contradictions to rely on for "salvation."

 

 

he did show himself to us, try reading the new testament. if you read it and still don't believe it, then that is your own perogative.

 

here is a rational explanation of God. i won't quote if for you since there is to much, but read

Job 38.

 

sometimes you can read an explination and it is still over your head. i have tried for the longest to fully understand specs on a cam, but i just can't seem to get it. i just know the bigger the better. in most cases.

[Lycorth]

he did show himself to us, try reading the new testament. if you read it and still don't believe it, then that is your own perogative.

 

Your friend was right. You are misguided.

 

Why is the New Testament proof of anything? Just because someone says the sky is pink, yet all the evidence says it's blue, why should I believe what someone said over what I can see myself?

 

Your god's book is full of contradictions and you accept your god on the most illogical and utterly naive of premises - that someone wrote it down. Until you can tell me how that alone is proof of anything, you've got not a leg to stand on.

 

Odin is my god. He is said to have revealed advice and lore to us in the Havamal. I believe these are the messages of Odin. By your logic, I'm right. If not, why?

 

here is a rational explanation of God. i won't quote if for you since there is to much, but read

Job 38.

 

The whole of Job is irrational. It displays that your god really doesn't give a shit about us, that the devil™ is nobler than your god (since all he does is annoy Job, unlike Yahooweh™, who drowns worlds, incinerates cities, and orders rape and murder by his precious Israelite army of goons), and your god isn't all-powerful or all-knowing, or else he'd not need to test Job at all. Just one big immoral mass of contradictions.

 

Why would your god need to test Job in the first place, if he doesn't have all-knowledge?

 

sometimes you can read an explination and it is still over your head. i have tried for the longest to fully understand specs on a cam, but i just can't seem to get it. i just know the bigger the better. in most cases.

 

So, you accept Xianity and the Babble™ because you can't understand it? How is that justifiable or rational? By the same token, I should accept any religion whose writings don't make sense to me. If not, why?

 

I miss amy. Even her thoughts were a bit more coherent.

[Antlerman]

here is a rational explanation of God. i won't quote if for you since there is to much, but read

Job 38.

Dude you crack me up! If you're not for real, you've got it down good. If you are, too funny!!

 

A rational explaination of God? Doesn't the Bible say he is beyond our comprehension? You just contradicted your own faith! Good one.

 

sometimes you can read an explination and it is still over your head.

Better one!!!! So will we be discussing higher Biblical criticism anytime soon?

 

i have tried for the longest to fully understand specs on a cam, but i just can't seem to get it. i just know the bigger the better. in most cases.

Yes, well what can I say?

[Misterspock1]

Hmmmm I asked this elsewhere, but will here again just because I was amused at the thought: Young adolecent Bedouin males no doubt found themselves pondering intercouse with a goat in their wildly raging hormones, and may have in fact had their way with them. Does this mean that goats now and again caught the eye of Jesus?

 

You know what's even funnier? The symbol of Satan is the pentagram, a five-pointed star turned upside-down. The idea is that it represents the face of Satan, with the top two points being ears, the two side points being cheeks, and the bottom point being a goatee. However, it is also the symbol of a goat.

 

So, using the transitive property, if Jesus "caught the eye" of a goat, and Satan is equivalent to a goat, then Jesus actually "caught the eye" of Satan?

[mwc]

and i am redefining the scripture? The problem with athiest is they want proof and explination for every little thing. the bible does not fully reveal everything about God to us. how can we comprehend it anyway. God is not confined to our limited capabilities.

Cop out. Too bad you pulled this card so soon. "Goddidit" and the like are not answers.

 

I, assuming I am athiest of course, do not need proof for every little thing. You see, I happened to be xian for over 30 years. I read the book quite a bit. I was indoctrinated quite well with all the various "fixes" (such as the trinity and the divinity of jesus and all the wonderful things we're discussing now). The funny thing is the bible is not aware of them. The Jews are unaware of them. Only xian faith (and doctrine) are aware of them.

 

Ignoring the fact that xians have totally raped Judaism and infused it with paganism doesn't change the fact that it happened.

 

The following are fine examples of what I was saying. How can I trust these answers now? How can we truly comprehend god's wishes and ideas? These guys could have got it all wrong and are passing along flawed concepts.

As far as the tempting, here is your explination of the tempting.

 

Heb 2:18 "Because he himself suffered when he was tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted."

 

Heb 4:15 "For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are- yet without sin."

Again, go back and re-read where it was pointed out (more than once) that GOD CANNOT BE TEMPTED OF EVIL! Therefore, jesus was never truly tempted. If he was never truly tempted then the whole thing was an act. A fraud. A lie.

 

mwc

[Japedo]

 

 

 

and i am redefining the scripture? The problem with athiest is they want proof and explination for every little thing. the bible does not fully reveal everything about God to us. how can we comprehend it anyway. God is not confined to our limited capabilities.

 

As far as the tempting, here is your explination of the tempting.

 

Heb 2:18 "Because he himself suffered when he was tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted."

 

Heb 4:15 "For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are- yet without sin."

 

If god even is, did he give us reason to decipher truth from bs? Would you agree that's a fair assessment? How are you suppose to decipher bullshit from truth if your truth is so obscure and twisted that it makes no sense? It's the equivalence of trying to find a gold ring in the bottom of a murky swamp in the dark. IT might be there, but you'll have to pick up lots of mud and shit before you end up finding it, if you find it at all.

 

If god truly loved all creation and wanted everyone to be with him then the truth would be as easy to see for all, not some encrypted nonsense that makes no logical sense. Your copout and ass covering for god is a no fly. He supposedly knows the human mind and yet can't even give us simple truths and strong evidence of his existence. Putting together some collage of halfass verses to mean what you want them to mean is weak at best. I could very easily snip quite a few things out of the bible and "prove" by that same method that god hates and loathes mankind. I can do it all with scripture, we can in fact make it say whatever we want it to say is the point I'm trying to make. We are not asking for proof of 'every little thing' we are asking for proof of basic things there is a huge difference in that. Also, the truth can stand on it's own it doesn't need a PR machine for it to be upheld.

 

I'd also like you to remove your unfounded hysteria if at all possible. This is not Satan website or whatever it is you said in the above post. Why not try to judge us all here on our knowledge and actions instead of broad brushing us all as some boogieman's tools. Anyways, Welcome to Ex-C even if your post above came across rude and condescending.

[Ouroboros]

Matthew ch. 4:-

 

Verse 5: Then the devil took him to the holy city, and set him on the pinnacle of the temple,

How do you explain in the light of this scripture:

 

James 1:13-18

13 When tempted, no one should say, "God is tempting me." For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; 14 but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed.

 

If God cannot be tempted, how could Jesus be tempted?

 

If one is tempted by his own evil desire, was Jesus evil since he was tempted?

 

Was Jesus dragged by the Devil by his own evil desires?

[freeday]

Matthew ch. 4:-

 

Verse 5: Then the devil took him to the holy city, and set him on the pinnacle of the temple,

How do you explain in the light of this scripture:

 

James 1:13-18

13 When tempted, no one should say, "God is tempting me." For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; 14 but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed.

 

If God cannot be tempted, how could Jesus be tempted?

 

If one is tempted by his own evil desire, was Jesus evil since he was tempted?

 

Was Jesus dragged by the Devil by his own evil desires?

 

God does not tempt us to sin, that is satan's specialty. However, God may see fit to TEST Us! there is a difference. it can place us in the direct line of fire of satan.

 

Jam 1:13 When tempted, no one should say, "God is tempting me." For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone.

[white_raven23]

Matthew ch. 4:-

 

Verse 5: Then the devil took him to the holy city, and set him on the pinnacle of the temple,

How do you explain in the light of this scripture:

 

James 1:13-18

13 When tempted, no one should say, "God is tempting me." For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; 14 but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed.

 

If God cannot be tempted, how could Jesus be tempted?

 

If one is tempted by his own evil desire, was Jesus evil since he was tempted?

 

Was Jesus dragged by the Devil by his own evil desires?

 

God does not tempt us to sin, that is satan's specialty. However, God may see fit to TEST Us! there is a difference. it can place us in the direct line of fire of satan.

 

Jam 1:13 When tempted, no one should say, "God is tempting me." For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone.

 

Ah...but it's perfectly okay for him to harden people against his own will. Which he DOES do. As for saying that is not the same as tempting people....that's called "splitting hairs". You want to try claiming god doesn't harden people? Or that he only did it to the Pharoh of OT?