Golden Meadows Posted June 20, 2006 Share Posted June 20, 2006 Matthew ch. 4:- Verse 5: Then the devil took him to the holy city, and set him on the pinnacle of the temple, How do you explain in the light of this scripture: James 1:13-18 13 When tempted, no one should say, "God is tempting me." For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; 14 but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed. If God cannot be tempted, how could Jesus be tempted? If one is tempted by his own evil desire, was Jesus evil since he was tempted? Was Jesus dragged by the Devil by his own evil desires? God does not tempt us to sin, that is satan's specialty. However, God may see fit to TEST Us! there is a difference. it can place us in the direct line of fire of satan. Jam 1:13 When tempted, no one should say, "God is tempting me." For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone. But if it was God who gave me a sinfull nature (i.e the effects of the fall) and this makes me tempted to do what he says I ought not to do, should I not therefore come to the conclusion that God tempts me? Should he not have made me perfect so I would not be tempted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeday Posted June 20, 2006 Share Posted June 20, 2006 I'd also like you to remove your unfounded hysteria if at all possible. This is not Satan website or whatever it is you said in the above post. Why not try to judge us all here on our knowledge and actions instead of broad brushing us all as some boogieman's tools. Anyways, Welcome to Ex-C even if your post above came across rude and condescending. i appologive if i came off that way, i am not trying to condem you or be rude. the bible itself can be offensive to people who don't beleive in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlerman Posted June 20, 2006 Share Posted June 20, 2006 Matthew ch. 4:- Verse 5: Then the devil took him to the holy city, and set him on the pinnacle of the temple, How do you explain in the light of this scripture: James 1:13-18 13 When tempted, no one should say, "God is tempting me." For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; 14 but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed. If God cannot be tempted, how could Jesus be tempted? If one is tempted by his own evil desire, was Jesus evil since he was tempted? Was Jesus dragged by the Devil by his own evil desires? God does not tempt us to sin, that is satan's specialty. However, God may see fit to TEST Us! there is a difference. it can place us in the direct line of fire of satan. Jam 1:13 When tempted, no one should say, "God is tempting me." For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone. Yes, and you didn't answer his question. God does not temp anyone, but they are tempted when they are drawn away by their own evil desire - just as Jesus MUST have been in order to be tempted in all ways just as us. Jesus was drawn away by his own evil desires, being tempted just like us! This is what quoting James does here. Not too consistent in theology really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeday Posted June 20, 2006 Share Posted June 20, 2006 [/color] But if it was God who gave me a sinfull nature (i.e the effects of the fall) and this makes me tempted to do what he says I ought not to do, should I not therefore come to the conclusion that God tempts me? Should he not have made me perfect so I would not be tempted? he made us perfect, satan is the one who tempted us into sin. its in genesis. you look at this the wrong way, i have been tempted by satan and have failed horribly several times in my life. but working through my failures i have become a stronger christian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlerman Posted June 20, 2006 Share Posted June 20, 2006 i appologive if i came off that way, i am not trying to condem you or be rude. the bible itself can be offensive to people who don't beleive in it. It can also be offense to those who do believe in God. Flashback to stories of the old, yet unimproved God ordering genocide on those poor Canaanites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Japedo Posted June 20, 2006 Share Posted June 20, 2006 i appologive if i came off that way, i am not trying to condem you or be rude. the bible itself can be offensive to people who don't beleive in it. It is equally offensive to people that do believe in it as well, only putting your head in the sand and making excuses or denial is the only way any moral person can justify major genocide, slavery and an abusive god to those not his 'chosen'. You're forgiven by me personally, I can't speak for anyone else. It's the same tiresome, mindless BS sputtered by High and mighty Christians that visit, painting this as some sorta evil doers website. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeday Posted June 20, 2006 Share Posted June 20, 2006 Ah...but it's perfectly okay for him to harden people against his own will. Which he DOES do. As for saying that is not the same as tempting people....that's called "splitting hairs". You want to try claiming god doesn't harden people? Or that he only did it to the Pharoh of OT? there are several instances where he hardens peoples hearts in the OT. but it was to acclompish God's will. God works his sovereign purpose in history, but people are responsible for their choices. Both truths resound throughout the bible, but each seems to nulify the other if pushed to the EXTREME. as far as the pharoah. it was not until the sixth plague that God explicitly hardened pharah's heart. This was after several occasions where he demonstrated his wn obstinacy. the general conclusion is that God will eventually give us over to our own choices if we continually resist him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick5 Posted June 20, 2006 Share Posted June 20, 2006 he made us perfect, satan is the one who tempted us into sin. its in genesis. Idiocy. yahweh made satan knowing very what would happen, so he still takes the blame. Actually he must take the blam for everything bad that has ever happened in history. He's an immature little piece of shit who blames others for his own mistakes. Well, good thing he doesn't exists. Oh and also, show me where it says that the garden's snake was satan. I want the verse number please. It must be in the OT, and be perfectly clear that they are refering to this particular snake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Japedo Posted June 20, 2006 Share Posted June 20, 2006 there are several instances where he hardens peoples hearts in the OT. but it was to acclompish God's will. God works his sovereign purpose in history, but people are responsible for their choices. Both truths resound throughout the bible, but each seems to nulify the other if pushed to the EXTREME. as far as the pharoah. it was not until the sixth plague that God explicitly hardened pharah's heart. This was after several occasions where he demonstrated his wn obstinacy. the general conclusion is that God will eventually give us over to our own choices if we continually resist him. So Human error isn't allowed I see, forgiveness is out the window. I suppose, even though Moses himself committed Murder and escaped trial god was willing to overlook that for the greater good(?). God was intent on Murdering all the first born in Egypt to show how loving and just he is? What's a mere man king, pharos or commoner suppose to do if god controls his actions? God forced the outcome he wanted it's in no way a fair or just fight. This "god" is tribal... as is your mindset. Your god only favors the hero's of the story for no other reasons then they are the listed hero's, he also destroys men, women and children for nothing more major then a point. You wonder why Christians are labeled the Blood cult, it's what your views depend upon. Blood, gore, eternal torture, and zero justice... in a word Evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted June 20, 2006 Share Posted June 20, 2006 Matthew ch. 4:- Verse 5: Then the devil took him to the holy city, and set him on the pinnacle of the temple, How do you explain in the light of this scripture: James 1:13-18 13 When tempted, no one should say, "God is tempting me." For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; 14 but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed. If God cannot be tempted, how could Jesus be tempted? If one is tempted by his own evil desire, was Jesus evil since he was tempted? Was Jesus dragged by the Devil by his own evil desires? God does not tempt us to sin, that is satan's specialty. However, God may see fit to TEST Us! there is a difference. it can place us in the direct line of fire of satan. Jam 1:13 When tempted, no one should say, "God is tempting me." For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone. O'boy. Did that zoom over your head or what? Read this: FOR GOD CAN NOT BE TEMPTED And then this: JESUS WAS TEMPTED Get the point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeday Posted June 20, 2006 Share Posted June 20, 2006 O'boy. Did that zoom over your head or what? Read this: FOR GOD CAN NOT BE TEMPTED And then this: JESUS WAS TEMPTED Get the point? God, the father in heaven, cannot be tempted, Jesus was on earth, which is where satan resounds. he is referred to as the "god of this age" (2cor 4:4). like us, Jesus could be tempted from satan. the Greek translation of "temp" has 2 different meanings. 1) to test or prove. 2) to solicit to evil. satan was trying to solicit him to do evil. but he didn't. that is the most important part of the temptation of Jesus i don't think i can explain this any better than what i have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Japedo Posted June 20, 2006 Share Posted June 20, 2006 God, the father in heaven, cannot be tempted, Jesus was on earth, which is where satan resounds. he is referred to as the "god of this age" (2cor 4:4). like us, Jesus could be tempted from satan. the Greek translation of "temp" has 2 different meanings. 1) to test or prove. 2) to solicit to evil. satan was trying to solicit him to do evil. but he didn't. that is the most important part of the temptation of Jesus i don't think i can explain this any better than what i have. Doesn't 3=1? and here I thought they were all the same........... Father/son/and holy spook were different sides to the same triangle.. So which gods get which powers again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnosis of Disbelief Posted June 20, 2006 Share Posted June 20, 2006 God, the father in heaven, cannot be tempted, Jesus was on earth, which is where satan resounds. he is referred to as the "god of this age" (2cor 4:4). like us, Jesus could be tempted from satan. the Greek translation of "temp" has 2 different meanings. 1) to test or prove. 2) to solicit to evil. satan was trying to solicit him to do evil. but he didn't. that is the most important part of the temptation of Jesus So gawd created Satan to tempt gawd, knowing that this temptation would be futile? Is your gawd neurotic, or just horribly bored? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeday Posted June 20, 2006 Share Posted June 20, 2006 God, the father in heaven, cannot be tempted, Jesus was on earth, which is where satan resounds. he is referred to as the "god of this age" (2cor 4:4). like us, Jesus could be tempted from satan. the Greek translation of "temp" has 2 different meanings. 1) to test or prove. 2) to solicit to evil. satan was trying to solicit him to do evil. but he didn't. that is the most important part of the temptation of Jesus So gawd created Satan to tempt gawd, knowing that this temptation would be futile? Is your gawd neurotic, or just horribly bored? i can't answer the question you pose. why would god create satan? Did he create satan is an even better question. i like to think of it as "for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction" you can't have good without evil. i love the book of Job on this subject. it answers some questions while leaving many unanswered. in the story God allowed satan to destroy job, but yet he set limits on what he coud destroy. thus implicating he does have control over satan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnosis of Disbelief Posted June 21, 2006 Share Posted June 21, 2006 i can't answer the question you pose. why would god create satan? Did he create satan is an even better question. i like to think of it as "for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction" you can't have good without evil. i love the book of Job on this subject. it answers some questions while leaving many unanswered. in the story God allowed satan to destroy job, but yet he set limits on what he coud destroy. thus implicating he does have control over satan. Honestly, I have no clue what you're trying to say here, other than you love the book of Job bevause it "leaves questions unanswered." Although it does answer these questions in a way: "Gawd gets to beat up all his wittle followers because he is gawd, get it?" Yeah, nice thought, that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lycorth Posted June 21, 2006 Share Posted June 21, 2006 Honestly, I have no clue what you're trying to say here, other than you love the book of Job bevause it "leaves questions unanswered." Although it does answer these questions in a way: "Gawd gets to beat up all his wittle followers because he is gawd, get it?" Yeah, nice thought, that one. It's amazing what Xians will let themselves be led to believe, isn't it? Their god can kill and torment as many people as he likes, because he's their god. Their god can play games with people's souls and make them jump through hoops, only to deny them in the end, because he's their god. Their god can make no sense at all but it makes perfect sense to them, because he's their god. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted June 21, 2006 Share Posted June 21, 2006 God, the father in heaven, cannot be tempted, Jesus was on earth, which is where satan resounds. he is referred to as the "god of this age" (2cor 4:4). like us, Jesus could be tempted from satan. the Greek translation of "temp" has 2 different meanings. 1) to test or prove. 2) to solicit to evil. satan was trying to solicit him to do evil. but he didn't. that is the most important part of the temptation of Jesus Like a true apologist. The word doesn't mean what it says when it doesn't fit what you want it to fit. Your explanation makes sense, but the same words in Greek are used in both places. Sure you can twist the meaning that "hamburger" means a patty of meat or a citizen of a German city depending on what you want to say, but still I think your answer is wrong. (I know the real theological answer to that question, but I wanted to see what you answered.) he made us perfect, satan is the one who tempted us into sin. its in genesis. Then we were not perfect. Adam sinned, that means he wasn't perfect. What is sin Freeday? Is lying a sin? Is withholding information and only telling partial truths a lie? Did Jesus lie? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lycorth Posted June 21, 2006 Share Posted June 21, 2006 Yes, if Adam sinned, he wasn't perfect. If he were flawless as his maker was, he'd be impervious to temptation. If Adam wasn't perfect, what does that say about the craftsmanship of the Abrahamic god? Evidently, a perfect being can't create perfect beings, though you'd think otherwise. Or else the Abrahamic god wanted his creations to sin, so he could stroke his ego by venting his wrath on them. What a dick. And Jeezus did lie, many times. Every promise of his to answer all prayers offered in his name was a lie, since nothing like that can be proven to happen. He said he'd come back within the generation of the New Testament, and evidently he did not. He is a liar, plain and simple. I still don't see why I should worship that prick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted June 21, 2006 Share Posted June 21, 2006 If withholding information is lying, then Jesus did lie purposely. He intentionally withheld information. It's even in the Bible: Mat 13: 34 Jesus spoke all these things to the crowd in parables; he did not say anything to them without using a parable. 35 So was fulfilled what was spoken through the prophet: "I will open my mouth in parables, I will utter things hidden since the creation of the world." 36 Then he left the crowd and went into the house. His disciples came to him and said, "Explain to us the parable of the weeds in the field." Jesus spoke in parables on purpose to hide the meaning. But he goes on and explain it to the disciples. That's playing favorites. God is playing favorites and we get judged from the decisions we make from lack of information. A person can only make a good decision if he gets the truth, not if he gets lied to. So did the Pharisees get the "Go to Hell, without passing Go" card only because Jesus didn't explain the parables to them? i can't answer the question you pose. why would god create satan? Did he create satan is an even better question. i like to think of it as "for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction" you can't have good without evil. i love the book of Job on this subject. it answers some questions while leaving many unanswered. We've heard the argument of Satan being "everything that God is not". Then I have the question, did the "Not-God" exist before Satan? And what can be "Not-God" if God is everything? in the story God allowed satan to destroy job, but yet he set limits on what he coud destroy. thus implicating he does have control over satan. It's called conspiracy, and usually in a court case the conspirators to a crime do time too. Even more, if you can stop a crime but don't, you can get convicted too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willybilly30 Posted June 21, 2006 Share Posted June 21, 2006 I think Job is a sick book god let's satan torture job just so god can say told ya job wouldn't leave me haha. why is that a good story? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lycorth Posted June 21, 2006 Share Posted June 21, 2006 I think Job is a sick book god let's satan torture job just so god can say told ya job wouldn't leave me haha. why is that a good story? Yeah, it'd be like a husband having a guy come to his home and beat and rape his wife all night just to prove how loyal she is to her husband, despite the shit he let happen to her. Boy, the perspectives you get on this Babble garbage once you look at it from the outside, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willybilly30 Posted June 21, 2006 Share Posted June 21, 2006 Freeday why do think this is a good story? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LloydDobler Posted June 21, 2006 Share Posted June 21, 2006 you can't have good without evil. Explain why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted June 21, 2006 Share Posted June 21, 2006 Actually Lloyd, it's an interesting point of view. If you can't have good without evil, doesn't it mean that evil must have existed even before Satan/the Devil? It would work the opposite way too, God couldn't have been good before the Devil, unless evil existed then too! Wouldn't that make evil eternal and non created? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwc Posted June 21, 2006 Share Posted June 21, 2006 Actually Lloyd, it's an interesting point of view. If you can't have good without evil, doesn't it mean that evil must have existed even before Satan/the Devil? It would work the opposite way too, God couldn't have been good before the Devil, unless evil existed then too! Wouldn't that make evil eternal and non created? Exactly. Without "evil" God would have been neutral. Since god is "unique" he might be all good, all evil or some combination of both. We need another one for comparison. Until then all we have is his word that he's all good (and based on his actions I'm not so sure he's telling the truth). mwc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts