Mythra Posted October 7, 2006 Share Posted October 7, 2006 It dawned on me after reading this great post by Tyrone Williams how true it is that the christian belief needs to be supported and droned into a person over and over again in order to be sustained. Could it be because deep down, they know (or at least suspect) that it's not really true? Why do christians need constant fellowship with each other? Why do some of them practically live in church? Listen to nothing but christian music? Have no outside interests? Read nothing but the bible or books that support their beliefs? Guard their faith like it could slip away at any moment? I relied heavily on Ex-C when I was first de-converting, but for a very long time now I've been solidly in the atheist camp, and I haven't been here at Ex-C much. With no support groups, three-times-a-week meetings or any other props holding me up. It seems natural. Not a struggle at all. Peaceful. Solid. No fear of falling away and losing my atheism. No dread of a day when I'll wake up and it'll be gone. How many children give any thought at all to religion before it's drummed into their heads and indoctrinated into their lives? None. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlerman Posted October 7, 2006 Share Posted October 7, 2006 I relied heavily on Ex-C when I was first de-converting, but for a very long time now I've been solidly in the atheist camp, and I haven't been here at Ex-C much. With no support groups, three-times-a-week meetings or any other props holding me up. It seems natural. Not a struggle at all. Peaceful. Solid. No fear of falling away and losing my atheism. No dread of a day when I'll wake up and it'll be gone. How many children give any thought at all to religion before it's drummed into their heads and indoctrinated into their lives? None. Well said Brother Mythra! Seriously, you've nailed it. Life is natural. Religion is unnatural. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted October 7, 2006 Author Share Posted October 7, 2006 Thanks antlerman. WTF is that avatar? Jesus spread-eagled? Is that the S&M wing of the LDS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlerman Posted October 7, 2006 Share Posted October 7, 2006 Thanks antlerman. WTF is that avatar? Jesus spread-eagled? Is that the S&M wing of the LDS? Yeah, I think I'll use that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duderonomy Posted October 7, 2006 Share Posted October 7, 2006 IMHO, I'm not sure that atheism is the default position. Can any of us be sure? How about agnostics? I mean, it's not like Christianity is the yin to the yang. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markkasan Posted October 7, 2006 Share Posted October 7, 2006 Christians will say that it is easier to disbelieve because the world conspires to make you hate God. They have an answer to everything, it seems. I always had deep-down thouhts that God wasn't real when I was Christian. I'm sure everyone else does too, but in different intensities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted October 7, 2006 Author Share Posted October 7, 2006 Christians will say that it is easier to disbelieve because the world conspires to make you hate God. They have an answer to everything, it seems. Oh, come on. You should know the christian answer.. 1. Man was not created this way - he was made to have constant communion with his maker. 2. Adam and Eve fucked up. 3. Now man is in a fallen state. Alienated from God. Unable to understand or see God on his own. 4. All have sinned and fall short. There are none worthy. Not one. 5. Only through the blood are we redeemed. Paul and the other NT writers understood the problem, and wrote the solution. They knew without some fast pedaling, no one was going to buy this shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlerman Posted October 7, 2006 Share Posted October 7, 2006 Paul and the other NT writers understood the problem, and wrote the solution. They knew without some fast pedaling, no one was going to buy this shit. That's the beauty of the system. I actually think modern sales and marketing techniques are based on tricks begun in the ancient world: 1. Create a problem 2. Create a desire to solve the problem 3. Sell your product to fix the problem created in step 1 There is nothing evident by itself of some garden with talking snakes and immortal humans who made some god so angry that he decided to torture all their descendents with disease, pain, and death, in their live and on into eternity; but if you spin a convincing story and get them to believe they need the magic elixir to cure them of this perceived problem, then you can peddle your "good book" with a magical story about Jehovah and his boy Jesus, putting ropes and chains around that bad, bad snake creature and making everything happy again, just like in that garden that's now real because you believe it. ("But I know it's real because I believe it!") Religion is a business selling products by creating and exploiting perceived needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted October 7, 2006 Author Share Posted October 7, 2006 Exactly, Antlerman. Convince you that you need something, then provide the cure. Hell, I'm thinking about buying Rogaine, and I'm not even losing any hair... Thinking about purchasing Enzyte for male enhancement - and god knows I don't need any help in that department. The bible is truly a marvelous book. Not getting prayers answered? God only answers prayers if they are his will. Doubting God? The devil roams about like a lion looking for someone to devour. Don't let it be you. Horny? Sin. Wishing you had more money? Sin. Pissed off at someone? Sin. Proud of yourself? Sin. Oh, wretched man that I am. Nothing to do but lean on the everlasting arms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asimov Posted October 8, 2006 Share Posted October 8, 2006 IMHO, I'm not sure that atheism is the default position. Can any of us be sure? How about agnostics? I mean, it's not like Christianity is the yin to the yang. Atheism isn't the default position, neither is agnosticism (which frankly, has nothing to do with belief in God). Someone who has no concept of God is the default position. They aren't atheists, they aren't theists....they are null. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted October 8, 2006 Share Posted October 8, 2006 Atheism isn't the default position, neither is agnosticism (which frankly, has nothing to do with belief in God).Atheism is the default position for those that lack a belief in gods. One does not have to say or do anything to be an Atheist. All they need is a lack of belief in gods. It does not matter how or why they came to that position. And that's not my "opinion," it is the way that the majority of Atheists define it. Since we are Atheists, we get to define what Atheism is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurisaz Posted October 8, 2006 Share Posted October 8, 2006 Life is natural. Religion is unnatural. Meh. Mild objection. Wondering and asking questions a la "Where do we come from? Where (if anywhere) will we go?" et cetera is probably quite normal, and - casting goo' ol' brainwashing aside - these kinds of questions can easily lead people to religions. They needn't do that of course... but I trust you know what I mean. Christians will say that it is easier to disbelieve because the world conspires to make you hate God. They have an answer to everything, it seems. Much of the fanatical brand of the jebus death cult, if you ask me, is about having an answer, any answer, even an obviously wrong one, rather than admit one fucking single time "I don't know". Atheism isn't the default position, neither is agnosticism (which frankly, has nothing to do with belief in God). Someone who has no concept of God is the default position. They aren't atheists, they aren't theists....they are null. Well said man! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asimov Posted October 8, 2006 Share Posted October 8, 2006 Atheism is the default position for those that lack a belief in gods. One does not have to say or do anything to be an Atheist. All they need is a lack of belief in gods. It does not matter how or why they came to that position. And that's not my "opinion," it is the way that the majority of Atheists define it. Since we are Atheists, we get to define what Atheism is. I'm more of an atheist than you are, so I get to define it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted October 8, 2006 Share Posted October 8, 2006 Atheism is the default position for those that lack a belief in gods. One does not have to say or do anything to be an Atheist. All they need is a lack of belief in gods. It does not matter how or why they came to that position. And that's not my "opinion," it is the way that the majority of Atheists define it. Since we are Atheists, we get to define what Atheism is.I'm more of an atheist than you are, so I get to define it.Is that the best you can come up with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asimov Posted October 8, 2006 Share Posted October 8, 2006 Atheism is the default position for those that lack a belief in gods. One does not have to say or do anything to be an Atheist. All they need is a lack of belief in gods. It does not matter how or why they came to that position. And that's not my "opinion," it is the way that the majority of Atheists define it. Since we are Atheists, we get to define what Atheism is.I'm more of an atheist than you are, so I get to define it.Is that the best you can come up with? I think so, it's better than saying "well all these nerfs define atheism this way so they're right!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlerman Posted October 8, 2006 Share Posted October 8, 2006 http://atheism.about.com/od/atheismquestio...strong_weak.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted October 8, 2006 Share Posted October 8, 2006 Atheism is the default position for those that lack a belief in gods. One does not have to say or do anything to be an Atheist. All they need is a lack of belief in gods. It does not matter how or why they came to that position. And that's not my "opinion," it is the way that the majority of Atheists define it. Since we are Atheists, we get to define what Atheism is.I'm more of an atheist than you are, so I get to define it.Is that the best you can come up with?I think so, it's better than saying "well all these nerfs define atheism this way so they're right!"I see...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlerman Posted October 8, 2006 Share Posted October 8, 2006 Life is natural. Religion is unnatural. Meh. Mild objection. Wondering and asking questions a la "Where do we come from? Where (if anywhere) will we go?" et cetera is probably quite normal, and - casting goo' ol' brainwashing aside - these kinds of questions can easily lead people to religions. They needn't do that of course... but I trust you know what I mean. Yes, I agree. It's the trying to convince someone of something that doesn't exist in nature is a real thing, instead of simply a mythological langauge to desribe the world that's unnatural. "Yes Billy, Santa really does fly with magic elves in the sky, and Jesus really did walk on water. If you don't accept this, God will put boils on your skin and you'll go to hell when you die." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted October 8, 2006 Share Posted October 8, 2006 Yes, I agree. It's the trying to convince someone of something that doesn't exist in nature is a real thing, instead of simply a mythological langauge to desribe the world that's unnatural. "Yes Billy, Santa really does fly with magic elves in the sky, and Jesus really did walk on water. If you don't accept this, God will put boils on your skin and you'll go to hell when you die." Why can't jesus walk on water any more? Holes in his feet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asimov Posted October 8, 2006 Share Posted October 8, 2006 Atheism is the default position for those that lack a belief in gods. One does not have to say or do anything to be an Atheist. All they need is a lack of belief in gods. It does not matter how or why they came to that position. And that's not my "opinion," it is the way that the majority of Atheists define it. Since we are Atheists, we get to define what Atheism is.I'm more of an atheist than you are, so I get to define it.Is that the best you can come up with?I think so, it's better than saying "well all these nerfs define atheism this way so they're right!"I see...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted October 9, 2006 Author Share Posted October 9, 2006 Someone who has no concept of God is the default position. They aren't atheists, they aren't theists....they are null.[/b] Perhaps you define atheism as you see it - the firm, supportable belief that no gods exist. I had more in mind weak atheism - a lack of belief in god - and basically an indifference to the entire concept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asimov Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 Someone who has no concept of God is the default position. They aren't atheists, they aren't theists....they are null.[/b] Perhaps you define atheism as you see it - the firm, supportable belief that no gods exist. I had more in mind weak atheism - a lack of belief in god - and basically an indifference to the entire concept. No, I define atheism as the belief that no gods exist. What you call strong atheism would be the firm, supportable belief that no gods exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eponymic Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 No, I define atheism as the belief that no gods exist. What you call strong atheism would be the firm, supportable belief that no gods exist. I agree with that definition too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 No, I define atheism as the belief that no gods exist. What you call strong atheism would be the firm, supportable belief that no gods exist. I agree with that definition too.Most christians that wish to denegrate Atheism would agree too. Most Atheists define Atheism as a lack of belief in gods. After that lack of belief you can divide them into any catagory you can make up.... but the one thing that all Atheists (and agnostics) share is a lack of belief in gods. You do not have to make a claim or statement that you believe a god does not exist in order to be an Atheist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asimov Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 Most christians that wish to denegrate Atheism would agree too. Most Atheists define Atheism as a lack of belief in gods. No fucking difference. Who cares what Christians think? After that lack of belief you can divide them into any catagory you can make up.... but the one thing that all Atheists (and agnostics) share is a lack of belief in gods. You do not have to make a claim or statement that you believe a god does not exist in order to be an Atheist. Agnostics can be theists. Lack of belief is the same thing as having no belief is the same thing as believing something doesn't exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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