The Bible: Fact or Fiction

[Amethyst]

The Bible can't even agree on how long creation took. In Genesis, it says it took 6 days, but a couple of verses later, it says it took one day. Then there's the infamous verse about a day being to God like a thousand years. So how long did it take? One thousand? Six thousand? More? It doesn't even agree with itself on the most basic things.

 

It can't agree that there were no perfect humans:

 

"There is no man that sinneth not." 1 Kings 8:46

"Noah was a just man and perfect." Genesis 6:9

"Job ... was perfect and upright, and on that feared God, and eschewed evil." Job 1:1, 8

"If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." Romans 3:10

 

So were Job and Noah deceiving God? But they couldn't have been, since the Bible was inspired by the "breath of God." And God knows everything, so God couldn't have been deceived.

 

See, it's contradictory.

 

"It is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish." Matthew 18:14

 

And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark. Genesis 7:13. It does not say the children were saved, they must logically have been included in "every living substance."

 

(The he refers to Elisha)

And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them. 2 Kings 2:23-24

 

Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones. Psalm 137:9

 

If god says he does not want children to be killed, and yet he even encourages it, how can anyone worship a being like this? I certainly can't. I don't know how anyone in good conscience can. These are not taken entirely out of context. Please read your Bible the whole way through, from beginning to end. Don't skip anything. I can't see how anyone can be a member of a cult who worships a deity like this.

[Guest Son of Belial]

And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them. 2 Kings 2:23-24

 

I thought the NT said to forgive others, to not seek vengeance, etc. If cursing a bunch of children for calling someone bald isn't vengeance... damn. It's frightening that the same book could have scriptures so diametrically opposed.

[Kryten]

This is read from a Christian apologetic and I quote [sic]

 

“…the Bible was written by men under the influence of the Holy Spirit. The authors were allowed to record the understanding in their own words. Thats why we see minor differences in the Four Gospels. However the theme God wanted to convey has continuity throughout the Bible including the four Gospels & all of the NT. God gives us choices & says seek & you shall find. If you choose to seek inconsistency, you shall find it. If you seek understanding from God, you will find it & see the continuity of His word. God will not force you to believe. God allows us free will to make our choices. But if you truly seek understanding, God will guide you through the Holy Spirit…”

 

At least this Christian acknowledged the discrepancies and worked out an answer / defense for it.

 

Mac, you backed yourself into a blind corner in laying down the conclusive tone.

 

---

 

In addition, any comments to the apologetic quote, Han Solo and folks?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is the foundation of faith. If you choose to believe something, then you believe it. Have faith in bible --> accept bible as truth --> read it assuming it's true (ignore "problems") --> it will seem true to you --> strengthens your faith --> be even more convinced it's true --> read it with more conviction that it's true --> it seems even more true to you --> stronger faith -------> guilt, confusion, and bondage... You don't need the holy spirit for this mental exercise.

[Thurisaz]

And as long as you admit to yourself and others that your faith is based on... well... faith, that's okay. It's when fundies try to force others into that type of faith when the trouble starts.

[- AUB -]

The most obvious proof that the bible is bunk is that those who claim it supports their position represents every point in the ideological spectrum. The bible is inconsistent, that is it's strength, it's all things to all people, the right wing pro-nuclear find the vengeance bits, the wet pansies find the forgiveness bits. Their myopic views convince them that their choice of passages represent the "true" bible. But its totally neutral, you just have to look at the world today and through history, form Dr King to the KKK, every position is validated, there is no correct interpretation, there’s just millions of opposing views, all using the bible. It’s a meanigless book.

[Mr. Neil]

I wonder if MacGyver even intends on coming back.

 

In my cruel fantasies, he's searching desperately for the answer to my genealogy/virgin birth conundrum, a search fueled with even more urgency since I told him he'd never find it. I'd like to believe that he's spending hours and hours googling as many Christian sites as he can, trying to find the answer, realizing that every dead end he reaches only further vindicates my argument.

 

Of course, that's probably not what happened. As is usual of inerrantists, he probably just ran away.

 

[Guest marktaylor]

O.K.  just a couple of simple ones:

 

1.  Please supply the archaeological evidence that 2 million israelites wandered through the desert for 40 years.

 

 

 

2.  In the book of Acts, it is stated that the risen Christ first showed himself to Cephas, and then to the twelve.  Who were the twelve?  According to the gospel narrative, Judas was dead at that point. Sounds like one that snuck past the editors.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

1. Logistically impossible.

 

 

2. That story is told in several ways, but in most cases the apostles were hiding and the women were showing some guts!

[Ouroboros]

I was wondering the same thing...

 

Old McGyver had a debate, e i e i o

And on that debate there were some rebuttals, e i e i o

With logic here and reason there,

Here logic, there reason, everywhere logic and reason.

Old McGyver ran from debate, e i e i o.

[Mr. Neil]

MM, you owe me a new keyboard.

[Mythra]

Very good, madame. Although Mr. Neil's emoticon and response made me laugh even more.

 

At this point, I'm pretty sure that this thread was McGuyver's cute little way of saying goodbye to us, but I don't give a shit. I gotta rant, even though this isn't the rant section. (all of this is clearing out years of frustration)

 

I can understand how there could be no historical records of Jesus, either from the Jews or from the Romans. (and we have considerable historical documents from this time to examine). After all, Jesus was just another common dude running around Palestine feeding 5,000 people with a basket of food, healing paralytics, raising the dead, causing earthquakes and flying through the air. Easy to miss.

 

I can even understand how a simple mistake like saying Jesus was from Nazareth happened. (Even though there was no Nazareth during that time) - Josephus lists 65 towns in Galilee; Nazareth isn't one of them, and Jews insist that there was no such place in that day.

 

But there is one thing in the gospels that could not have happened without someone taking note. And that is the "slaughter of the innocents" in Bethlehem. There is no frickin way the first born of every family in Bethlehem would have happened and not made it into the historical record. Seeing the other minutae that did make it into history, one realizes that this never happened.

 

There is a good reason that the Jews didn't believe in Jesus. They were there, and he never was. Although some Jews today just take it for granted that Jesus was an actual man, the ones who have examined the evidence opt for him being a myth.

 

I'm sure McGuyver will never read this, but I don't care. I gotta vent.

 

[Mythra]

Oh, and Marktaylor:

 

Why is it logistically to supply the archaeological evidence for the Exodus? I'm not talking about ALL of the evidence. I'm talking about ANY evidence that was gathered from non-biased archaeological sources. Two million jews don't wander around without a trace. What am I missing?

[- AUB -]

Mythra

 

You have hit the nail on the head, it is less likely that Jesus was real then even Thor or Hercules because he's the only mythical figure to "live" in a well-documented area, so the lack of reference to him is damning. Also your main objection is even worse for according to Mat 2:16 Herod slew all 2yr olds and under “in all the coasts thereof”, as well as Bethlehem, try to keep that quite.

[Ouroboros]

Oh, and Marktaylor:

 

Why is it logistically to supply the archaeological evidence for the Exodus?  I'm not talking about ALL of the evidence.  I'm talking about ANY evidence that was gathered from non-biased archaeological sources.  Two million jews don't wander around without a trace.  What am I missing?

They buried their stuff really, really deep in the desert.

 

To be serious, you're absolutely right. The Bible tells how Israel fought innumerable fights and wars in the desert. And that’s in a desert that takes 1-2 weeks to cross. According to the Bible they were a couple of million people, and if you gather that many in that desert, I wonder if the front people more or less are a few feet to where they were supposed to got, so how the frigging hell couldn’t they find it? All of them were blind?

 

Anyway, so many wars in a very dense are, would have collected so much bodies and armor and trash that Israel most likely were walking on top of it after a few years.

 

And another thing, so many millions people at start, the birth rate is pretty high (especially without contraceptives, and that God would kill anyone that “spilled his seed”) … oh, I realized this explains why God killed of so many of them so often, they were growing to fast in numbers, so they had to be reduced by God. Aah! Great Epiphany! God didn’t do it out of anger; he did it to maintain the population. What a great dictator he is.