What defines a Fundie?

[Ouroboros]

We had a question about what distinguish a fundie from regular Christian, so I wanted to start this topic to see what we mean with it.

 

The word fundie comes from Fundamentalist.

 

And I'm sure apostates have different ideas what they want to be called a fundie, and Christians most likely have different view.

 

So Apostates and Christians ... read, set, GO!

[fallenleaf]

My definition of fundie [Christian]... is a person who is a fundamentalist Christian. One who believes the bible is inerrant, historical, and a valid guide not only for their life but the world and society as well.

 

There are other fundies of course... basically dogmatic and rigid worldviews that they insist is the only acceptable worldview.

 

Fundie thinking often leads to horrific actions as they can usually be justified fairly easily in the distorted mind of the believer.

 

But fundie is a flexible label... there are certainly people who I would consider fundie but only fit part of this definition and there are those who fit all parts but I would not consider them fundie. I guess it comes down to severity of their worldview in regards to their "health" and the "health" of those around them.

 

I have no real solid criteria but the above does hit the general aspects of it.

 

Is TAP a fundie? It's a difficult question because by the first definition she strongly fits two of the three points. And she does have characteristics of the third as well... but she stops short of insisting that her beliefs must be valid for everyone else as well. I guess the importand characteristic is what happens when reality and religion collide and which one comes out on top. In the case of TAP, I see a general trend towards allowing religion to bend as opposed to denying reality, a very un-fundie characteristic.

 

I'll have to reserve judgement here because according to any reasonable calculation I would normally consider TAP to be fundie. But because of the conversations and how well I know her, I do not consider her to be one -- and certainly not one with the negative connotations the word normally holds for me. I am unable to be unbiased here...

[Mythra]

I'm not sure what the actual criteria is, but I know how I see it.

 

Pentecostals: big fundy

Charismatics: big fundy

Baptists: fundy

Nazarenes: big fundy

Most non-denominational churches: fundy

 

Presbyterians: mostly fundy

 

Methodists: not fundy

 

Lutherans: abso fuckin lutely not fundy

 

Amanda: the anti-fundy

 

 

Does this help?

[Ouroboros]

It's FUNNY that actually the pentecostal et al. in Sweden considered out church to be a Fundie church, and not themselves.

 

I belonged to Word of Faith, and it's really hard core fundamentalistic.

[Mythra]

Here is a couple of ways to tell:

 

Women preachers: Not fundy

Treat Gays like lepers: Fundy

Make women wear dresses and no makeup: dyno-sized fundy

No Television: mega-sized fundy

Think other religions have some pretty good ideas too: NOT fundy

Let you wear shorts and flops to church: not fundy

Ban all alcohol, because Jesus only drank grape juice: Big fundy

Have a special get together on Halloween so kids can't trick or treat Fundy

Believe that sin is defined by anything that's fun: Fundy

Think that the Holy Spirit does not dwell within people: Not fundy

Believes "born again" really means "born from above" Not fundy

 

And that's all I have to say about that.

[Totallyatpeace]

Here is a couple of ways to tell:

 

Women preachers:  Not fundy

Treat Gays like lepers:  Fundy

Make women wear dresses and no makeup:  dyno-sized fundy

No Television:  mega-sized fundy

Think other religions have some pretty good ideas too:  NOT fundy

Let you wear shorts and flops to church:  not fundy

Ban all alcohol, because Jesus only drank grape juice: Big fundy

Have a special get together on Halloween so kids can't trick or treat  Fundy

Believe that sin is defined by anything that's fun:  Fundy

Think that the Holy Spirit does not dwell within people:  Not fundy

Believes "born again"  really means "born from above"  Not fundy

 

And that's all I have to say about that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Here is a couple of ways to tell:

 

Women preachers: Not fundy

Treat Gays like lepers: Fundy

Make women wear dresses and no makeup: dyno-sized fundy

No Television: mega-sized fundy

Think other religions have some pretty good ideas too: NOT fundy

Let you wear shorts and flops to church: not fundy

Ban all alcohol, because Jesus only drank grape juice: Big fundy

Have a special get together on Halloween so kids can't trick or treat Fundy

Believe that sin is defined by anything that's fun: Fundy

Think that the Holy Spirit does not dwell within people: Not fundy

Believes "born again" really means "born from above" Not fundy

 

And that's all I have to say about that.

 

 

 

What TAP believes is just fine....

[Mythra]

Tap, I grew up with fundies. I ate dinner with fundies. I went to church with fundies. I know all about fundies. And TAP, you're no fundy.

 

 

 

 

Sorry, lame Dan Quayle joke.

[Merlinfmct87]

We had a question about what distinguish a fundie from regular Christian, so I wanted to start this topic to see what we mean with it.

 

The word fundie comes from Fundamentalist.

 

And I'm sure apostates have different ideas what they want to be called a fundie, and Christians most likely have different view.

 

So Apostates and Christians ... read, set, GO!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I'll give my answer to the question posed, but I don't think it exposes the theart of the matter.

 

Eric did a nice job describing the Christian Fundamentalist, but that's not exactly how I use the term. I use it to describe anybody who clings to dogma to the point of blinding themselves to reason.

 

The reason I use *that* definition is I have seen the same insanity in atheists, wiccans, muslims, etc... We've had a few run-ins with both the atheist variant - saying all Christians are mindless drones who must be brutally tortured and killed for the greater good and amusement of all - and the Christian variant - saying that all fags and heathens need to be put through the inquisition and burned alive for the amusement of all.

 

Using TAP as the example in this case, Eric said it best, she fist the definition of the term only partially. She dose believe in a young earth and takes the Doctrine of Hell literally... yet you believe there is much good in other religions, she don't buy that 'godlessness' equals immoral, and she respect others even when they disagree with her.

 

Now for my explanation of the real difference between TAP and Marcus Wesson, Andrea Yeats, Susan Smith, etc is much deeper than what god they bow to.

 

The difference is not degree of belief. It is the fact that one is a killer and one isn't. I can never see TAP stoning myself or JP in the street.I could never see her going along with a witch trial or a return of the inquisition... I could never see her buying into someone using the Bible as an excuse to harm.

 

THAT is the real difference. It goes far, far deeper than weather or not TAP(or anybody else) take Genesis literally. It's a question of weather or not the person in question values human life.

 

My 2cp.

 

Merlin

 

p.s.: Don't mess with halloween

[Thurisaz]

So Apostates and Christians ... read, set, GO!

 

Here's my personal definition, as already stated in the thread this one branched off from. It has one clear advantage - it's short. It also has one clear disadvantage - some thinking may well be required to judge whether some person/cult is fundified according to this definition. So go ahead, take it apart so that I can improve it

 

A fundie is someone who, if reality conflicts with the dogma (s)he holds dear, gladly throws out reality.

 

Now go for it!

[Mythra]

A fundie is someone who, if reality conflicts with the dogma (s)he holds dear, gladly throws out reality.

Now go for it!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

That's a hard one to refute. Very good definition.

 

Your definition is better than this one. But from my time as a christian, I would modify it in this way:

 

A fundie is someone who, if reality conflicts with the dogma (s)he holds dear, runs to the Bible for the assurance that this reality is nothing more than lies put forth by Satan to try and lure me away from God.

[Mythra]

Oh, and speaking of Dobson.

 

In a rare moment of candor, I heard him on his radio show say that he has a computer at home to do his work, but that it isn't hooked to the internet. He's afraid that he might accidentally stumble into some T&A while there, and doesn't trust himself. After he said it, I could tell that he wished he hadn't let that slip out.

 

How sad. To have to keep yourself so shut off from the world because you see a world in which evil is lurking around every corner waiting to consume you.

 

The new "dark ages"

[Purple Rhino]

I've simply broken Fundie down for myself as:

 

Someone who believes that anyone who doesn't agree with their narrow vision of godly is the enemy. <and/or> Takes it upon themselves to 'save' or judge everyone they come into contact with.

 

 

I can respect that others have the right to believe/not believe what they will as long as they have the decency to grant me the same right.

 

PR

[☆ TexasFreethinker ☆]

I like this definition:

 

For religious fundamentalists, sacred scripture is the authentic word of God. Fundamentalist beliefs depend on the twin doctrines that God articulated His will precisely to the authors of scripture and that we also have a reliable and perfect record of that revelation, which has been passed down to our day in an unbroken chain of tradition.

 

Since Scripture is the word of God, no one has the right to change it or disagree with it. People are thus obliged to obey the word of God. The appeal of this point of view is its simplicity: people must do what God tells them to do.

 

Not all "fundies" fit the stereotypical Fred Phelps or Jerry Falwell example. Some are very nice people who still insist that the only right way is the way included in (their interpretation of) whatever scripture they consider to be the word of god.

 

**************

 

I also like Thurisaz's concise definition.

[Japedo]

They use this as a way to promote that halloween is "okay" because it is All Saints Day being celebrated and as usual, they saw no wrong with incorporating with a pagan halloween in order to bring the pagans christ.  The women on the tape said that the Christians shouldn't pass out rinky dink candy but the full size ones, along with a tract.  He does the same with Christmas and Easter.  Dr. Dobson says that it is "okay" and encourages parents to lie about the bunny and fatman.

 

 

 

 

That's exactly why it's fundy, and promoted by a fundy. While Growing up in the AssofGOD (LOL I Love who ever ex-cer showed me that phrase I forget now?) On Halloween we had church sleep-overs and had to go door to door passing out tracts. We were not allowed to "receive the devils candy'.

 

which is exactly what Mythra was saying, they planed 'something' to do as a group on all hallows eve.

 

 

That being said of course Dobson would say it's okay to lie, they lie about just about everything else why not Santa and the bunny?

[Lizard]

I have a certain image in my mind when I hear or read the word "fundie"..perhaps a more narrow view, but from my experience it is this:

 

Their dogma, interpretation is always correct. And that interpretation must only come from the KJV..all others are perversions. Music must only be old hymns. Very stiff..rigid. Anyone outside of their "KJV-only clique" cannot possibly be a christian. Seperatists. No contact with those "outside" of their belief system.

 

I'm sure there's more..can't think right now, just thinking about all of it brought back the real harm they cause..

[thomas]

We had a question about what distinguish a fundie from regular Christian, so I wanted to start this topic to see what we mean with it.

 

The word fundie comes from Fundamentalist.

 

And I'm sure apostates have different ideas what they want to be called a fundie, and Christians most likely have different view.

 

So Apostates and Christians ... read, set, GO!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Years ago I read the book The revenge of God . It is written by a French sociologist Gilles Kepel, and it points out a lot of similarities between Protestant, Catholic, Jewish and Islamic fundamentalism. About 1980 they all experienced a turn from a defensive (= we are a small faithful minority) to a more aggressive (= we are going to win the world) approach. In all the religions, most fundamentalist leaders are bad theologians and often educated in something more modern than theology, for example engineering.

 

According to Gilles Kepel, fundamentalism is a product of the modern world, where people use their moderne thinking and modern technology to fight against the modern world. In the same way, as the workers movement was a product of industrialization and not all people feeling well in the process, Gilles Kepel sees fundamentalism as a sign, that something in the modern world isn’t okay.

 

When I did read the book, I was a Christian and I also thought that the book was great. It helped me see some of the fundamentalist things in my own background, but at the same time it left the impression, that fundamentalism “only” was a perversion of religion. Now I ask myself if it isn’t so, that all religion in some sense or other to some degree is fundamentalistic – I tend to think, that the answer is “yes”.

[Ouroboros]

According to Gilles Kepel, fundamentalism is a product of the modern world, where people use their moderne thinking and modern technology to fight against the modern world. In the same way, as the workers movement was a product of industrialization and not all people feeling well in the process, Gilles Kepel sees fundamentalism as a sign, that something in the modern world isn’t okay.

 

This was an interesting thought, that the world is so messed up, and that's why people get into cults and fundie churches etc. Peoples dispair and buildup panic forces them to take these extreme steps.

 

So maybe in a sense its not enough to get people educated and logical to make them avoid the pitfalls of extreme religion, but something has to change in how society treat their people.

 

But at the same time, US allow people to do a lot of stuff, and still there's more cults started here than anywhere else?

 

Maybe I'm making a spinoff here into why people become fundies...

[♦ ficino ♦]

In the early 20th century, in reaction to liberal and modernist influences among Protestant denominations in the USA, a bunch of ministers came up with five fundamental points:

1 Biblical inerrancy

2 The divinity of Jesus

3 The Virgin Birth

4 The belief that Jesus died to redeem humankind

5 An expectation of the Second Coming, or physical return, of Jesus Christ to initiate his thousand-year rule of the Earth, which came to be known as the Millennium.

 

A good summary of the beginning of American fundamentalism:

 

http://www.sullivan-county.com/news/

[cyberdiva113]

I'm not sure what the actual criteria is, but I know how I see it.

 

Pentecostals:  big fundy

Charismatics: big fundy

Baptists:  fundy

Nazarenes:  big fundy

Most non-denominational churches:  fundy

 

Presbyterians:  mostly fundy

 

Methodists:  not fundy

 

Lutherans:  abso fuckin lutely not fundy

 

Amanda:  the anti-fundy

Does this help?

 

 

 

So.......what does that make mormons........Jehovah's witnesses?

[Totallyatpeace]

So.......what does that make mormons........Jehovah's witnesses?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

cyberdiva113~

 

Do you believe that Mormons and JW's fall into the same category as the list Mythra provided? (Denominations within Christianity)

[♦ ficino ♦]

I think Mormons and JWs operate the way fundamentalist groups within many religions operate. That is, fundamentalism as a big, catch-all term for the kind of authoritarian, text-dominated, anti-rational groups people talked about above.

 

I don't think Mormons or JWs are fundamentalist Christians because they adopt doctrines that go against the fundamentals of Christian orthodoxy. I'd say JWs are Arians. Mormons are a new religion altogether.

[Guest Roamin' Lion]

Very good responses here. I think a simple definition of a fundie is anyone eager to exclude others from their favored position.

 

Exclude from heaven, exclude from the fold, exclude anyone who differs.

 

Another characteristic is palpable fear of EVERYTHING other than.

 

Those who wish to exclude and who are afraid are the antithesis of what the gospel is reputed to preach, but such is their lot.

[cyberdiva113]

cyberdiva113~

 

Do you believe that Mormons and JW's fall into the same category as the list Mythra provided? (Denominations within Christianity)

 

I suppose its really a matter of personal opinion. Where do you personally draw the line between cult, and seperate branch of Christianity?

[scotter]

Han Solo stated a good question.

 

Sometimes things go in both sides, though.

 

A supplementary thinking point – can there exist a category of Fundamental Atheist? Fundamental skeptic?

 

Have forum members met some?

[Totallyatpeace]

Very good responses here. I think a simple definition of a fundie is anyone eager to exclude others from their favored position.

 

Exclude from heaven, exclude from the fold, exclude anyone who differs.

 

Another characteristic is palpable fear of EVERYTHING other than.

 

Those who wish to exclude and who are afraid are the antithesis of what the gospel is reputed to preach, but such is their lot.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

That was perfectly said.

 

 

Tap