Evolution_beyond Posted August 19, 2007 Author Share Posted August 19, 2007 Ooh! I'd love it if men showed each other their penises on a regular basis. But then I'm not hetero, I'm bi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted August 19, 2007 Share Posted August 19, 2007 You don't visit the right gents toilets then... nothing more off putting than wandering in for a slash and being confronted by a german delicatessen of turgid horse meat... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angel.white Posted August 19, 2007 Share Posted August 19, 2007 From a subjective level, I personally think that religion is always bad. I'm willing to let people make their own bad decisions, because its none of my business. But when I see the damage caused by religion (xianity especially as it once held such power over me, though Jun's explanation of buddhism actually sounded decent) and it's invasive nature, I am always left disgusted and occasionally scarred. As to the "godless communists" ruining their way of life, I don't think it is wise to generate an entire world view off of a situation. All buddhists will not be like those you found to be beautiful, and all communists and atheists will not be like those you found to be despicable. It would be unwise to change your world view based off of an emotional movie, especially one that is propagandistic. However, from an objective level (or at least my subjective interpretation of an objective level ), I don't think it matters if there is religion, no religion, or a middle ground. There is no moral right or wrong, there are simply actions. Communists invading buddhists cannot be chastised as there is no true objective moral standard from which to judge them and no hell to which they may be condemned. ...Of course, the destruction xians cause is not good or bad either, its just particularly irritating Anyway, my answer is that I'd take a middle ground over what we currently have, with xians beating me over the head with their beliefs daily. But in general, no, there shouldn't be a middle ground, you can't half believe a religion just to get the aspects you want from it. Not saying you can't take those aspects separately, but you can't affiliate the two. Find your own truth, incorporate what you want into it, but don't try to call it something it isn't, and don't try to turn it into a "lesser religion". Because when its convenient, any set of beliefs or practices will be manipulated to gain power, and even the most well-intentioned concept-oriented pseudo-religion can be turned into a dogmatic invasive burden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolution_beyond Posted August 19, 2007 Author Share Posted August 19, 2007 You don't visit the right gents toilets then... nothing more off putting than wandering in for a slash and being confronted by a german delicatessen of turgid horse meat... I try not to look in those situations anyway - might lead to unwanted aggression or other negative/embarrassing consequences Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted August 19, 2007 Share Posted August 19, 2007 I have the general attitude that if it did it for me it would be smorgesbord... I just get the hell out without doing my business, since one can get caught up in a country cottage swoop at any time... it's like pulling over in a 'dogging' layby to get some shut eye on a long journey... Guilt by association... and even now I'm far too pretty for prison! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lycorth Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 There are good metaphors and bad metaphors. It's good to get rid of bad metaphors - but if the metaphors are good ones, what then? All things are one - we are all made of atoms. It is good to reflect and meditate on the deeper mysteries of life. It is good to observe respect for all living creatures and concern with ethical improvement. In addition to the fine path of Buddhism, there are also many nontheistic/Atheistic takes on neo-Pagan religions today that are amenable with an Atheistic mindset. I've discussed much in the past with atheistic Asatruar for one, who accept the Nine Noble Virtues and try to live by them, but only consider the Teutonic pantheons to be metaphors or allegories or, at the least, colorful stories that may (or may not) have any teaching value. I know of other Pagans who care more for the ethical teachings of their religions and hold similar views on gods and magic; ritual and ceremony are there for personal self-transformation and group bonding, and the overall zeitgeist of their religion(s) is an interesting decoration to add atmosphere to their lives. they are perfectly content to defer to science for answers and explanations about the world's origins and possible future, and consider their myths to be just interesting tales from an earlier age. It is a heartening thing, as it means the various Pagan religions will continue to help overrun the Abrahamic deathcults as well as grow and mature in their own right, as they are objectively beautiful things, from my observation of them. Basically, we humans can modify just about anything we've made to suit our needs and wants. Atheists who want to have "religion" or "spirituality" in their lives have a lot to work with, and none of it is harmful unless it's made to be that way To that end I still find much inspiration in the study of the Medieval European chivalric codes; Wikipedia has a good article on one such code. Despite their Xian origins, which invariably imbue them with some foul Xian bits here and there, I find the concept of Chivalry most inspiring, especially when one replaces fanatical devotion to the Xian god with reasonable devotion to truth and proven facts. Methinks a re-write is in order For what it's worth, my take on Buddhism's Four Truths: 1) Life is full of disappointments 2) Disappointments are caused by over-attachment 3) To eliminate disappointment, don't let yourself become overly attached to anything 4) To help you avoid becoming overly attached, study and apply the Eightfold Path in a manner best suited for your needs And I tip my hat to Jun as well; before he came along, I labored under a series of misconceptions about Buddhism. But after reading his thought-provoking posts on the matter, I was inspired to take a honest look at Buddhism myself, and now do my best to study and apply its basic principles to my life. On that note, I heartily recommend Brad Warner's "Hardcore Zen" - though I've only read a small handful of Buddhist books as of late, this is still by far the best I've picked up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jun Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 For what it's worth, my take on Buddhism's Four Truths: 1) Life is full of disappointments 2) Disappointments are caused by over-attachment 3) To eliminate disappointment, don't let yourself become overly attached to anything 4) To help you avoid becoming overly attached, study and apply the Eightfold Path in a manner best suited for your needs An excellent take on how it is! Very well put! I am however a little hesitant to apply the word "full" in the First Noble Truth. Perhaps "There are/can be many disappointments in life." Life is also "full" of joyous occassions and happiness. And I tip my hat to Jun as well; before he came along, I labored under a series of misconceptions about Buddhism. But after reading his thought-provoking posts on the matter, I was inspired to take a honest look at Buddhism myself, and now do my best to study and apply its basic principles to my life. I Thank you. But remember, don't take anything I say as "gospel" (or anyone else for that matter). Research, delve deep into things and see if I've given a full account of it. Question everything that you are told and everything that you read. On that note, I heartily recommend Brad Warner's "Hardcore Zen" - though I've only read a small handful of Buddhist books as of late, this is still by far the best I've picked up I hesitate to recommend books on Zen or Buddhism. Books are good primers, read them and then throw them away. Practice, practice, practice and then more practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lycorth Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 An excellent take on how it is! Very well put! I find "disappointment" to be an easier pill to swallow than "suffering" - a bit more reasonable a translation I am however a little hesitant to apply the word "full" in the First Noble Truth. Perhaps "There are/can be many disappointments in life." Life is also "full" of joyous occassions and happiness. Indeed - even better. More balanced and less bleak-sounding. I Thank you. But remember, don't take anything I say as "gospel" (or anyone else for that matter). Research, delve deep into things and see if I've given a full account of it. Question everything that you are told and everything that you read. No problem there - I've got issues with authority in general I hesitate to recommend books on Zen or Buddhism. Books are good primers, read them and then throw them away. Practice, practice, practice and then more practice. Indeed, personal practice with it is the only sure way. Usually, I dislike recommending books, but there are exceptions as always - one hell of an entertaining read, to be sure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolution_beyond Posted August 20, 2007 Author Share Posted August 20, 2007 In addition to the fine path of Buddhism, there are also many nontheistic/Atheistic takes on neo-Pagan religions today that are amenable with an Atheistic mindset. I've discussed much in the past with atheistic Asatruar for one, who accept the Nine Noble Virtues and try to live by them, but only consider the Teutonic pantheons to be metaphors or allegories or, at the least, colorful stories that may (or may not) have any teaching value. I know of other Pagans who care more for the ethical teachings of their religions and hold similar views on gods and magic; ritual and ceremony are there for personal self-transformation and group bonding, and the overall zeitgeist of their religion(s) is an interesting decoration to add atmosphere to their lives. they are perfectly content to defer to science for answers and explanations about the world's origins and possible future, and consider their myths to be just interesting tales from an earlier age. I knew there was a reason why paganism can be so popular in today's society. I've suspected for a long time that many pagans must treat the tales of their religion as metaphors and don't necessarily literally believe in the many gods but see those deities as symbols of a truth. I used to really, really like the Greek gods and the Egyptian gods. I'm quite fond of Shiva from the Indian pantheon - this is a destroyer who also creates, seems to represent the cyclical nature of things and so is a profound way of looking at life and the cosmos. But I am also very drawn to Egyptian deities like Ra, Osiris and Anubis. Even though in rational terms I am an atheist, my poetic nature can't leave religion alone and wants to talk of deities even though they are symbols and not literal beings. For what it's worth, my take on Buddhism's Four Truths: 1) Life is full of disappointments 2) Disappointments are caused by over-attachment 3) To eliminate disappointment, don't let yourself become overly attached to anything 4) To help you avoid becoming overly attached, study and apply the Eightfold Path in a manner best suited for your needs That's pretty much identical to my understanding of Buddhism. I would probably use a slightly stronger word than 'disappointments'. I would probably say 'Life has plenty of hardship and sorrow' and 'sorrow is caused by over-attachment'. It's the same meaning in any case - it just shows that I like to express myself in a more melodramatic way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jun Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 I would probably use a slightly stronger word than 'disappointments'. I would probably say 'Life has plenty of hardship and sorrow' and 'sorrow is caused by over-attachment'. The various meanings of Dukkha; imperfection, impermanence, insubstantial and in common usage pain, sorrow, suffering or misery. Sorrow is one of the common meanings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 New stab 1)Life is shit a lot of the time 2)There is a cause for this 3)Thinking 'The one who dies with most toys, wins!' makes life mostly shit 4) Get over yerself and enjoy what you have for what it, is while you have it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jun Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 New stab 1)Life is shit a lot of the time 2)There is a cause for this 3)Thinking 'The one who dies with most toys, wins!' makes life mostly shit 4) Get over yerself and enjoy what you have for what it, is while you have it... Very succinct, however I liked your first interpretation better Gramps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 Me too... i was trying to get it 'cool' and 'hip' for the 'beatnik speedsters' of the board! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jun Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 Me too... i was trying to get it 'cool' and 'hip' for the 'beatnik speedsters' of the board! I thought as much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 Well, you know these Hep Cats with their Jive dancing and beat poets in Espresso bars... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angel.white Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 Thats cool, Big Daddy. Birds singing in the dark —Rainy dawn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lycorth Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 Even though in rational terms I am an atheist, my poetic nature can't leave religion alone and wants to talk of deities even though they are symbols and not literal beings. Ditto that. Though I couldn't even make myself believe in literal deities anymore, there's too much good symbolism and fun in Pagan myths to just toss them out. And if a viable religion can be built out of whatever remnants of ancient myth and practice we have discovered, all the better for it. Some folks may still fall into the same traps that Xianity has taught our civilization to fall into, such as blind faith in gods who clearly do not answer our petitions, but I do think we're slowly waking up from that Abrahamic stupor, and many new religions will reflect that learning. At least I hope. That's pretty much identical to my understanding of Buddhism. I would probably use a slightly stronger word than 'disappointments'. I would probably say 'Life has plenty of hardship and sorrow' and 'sorrow is caused by over-attachment'. It's the same meaning in any case - it just shows that I like to express myself in a more melodramatic way Disappointment, hardship - to-may-to, to-mah-to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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