Deism

[The-Captain]

Your thoughts on Deism.

[RIPw4]

A very interesting belief..I lean towards it.

[bellsybop]

Hi my name is Bellsy and I'm a deist..

 

It fits my scheme on things to a tee.

 

I know we got here somehow.. just can't quite go with the evolution thinking, so I tend to stick with an energy form of creator.

 

I'd love to know more deists to share thoughts with. We don't condemn anyone's way of thinking of the creator.

It's an open free thinking group. I just wish there was some kind around close by that I could get together with.

I've found my peace in deism. I wandered around for a good while after I realized that I was deconverting and couldn't figure out where I belonged. I was on another site and someone mentioned Thomas Paine and deism. Took a good read on the book he wrote called The Age of Reason and realized that he and I could've been friends! LOL

I have no problem conversing with atheists either. And I understand agnostics. But Christians... pfffftttt. They irritate me although I still have friends who are.

[The-Captain]

I must say I see a lot of merit in deism. I to became interested after reading The Age Of Reason, and can see little fault coming from believing like that. Evolution and other scientific theory answers the how of life, deism perhaps answers the why of it?

 

Of course it could all be wishful thinking and trying to find gods where there are none, but what harm is there in supposing some sort of creator god set our universe in motion.

[white_raven23]

Like any other belief, I've seen there are varying levels of deism. At this point, mine leans more towards an open agnostic type. I'm open to the idea of Someone setting the wheels in motion, but I don't have an absolute belief that is the reality, and would like to see some manner of evidence one way or the other.

 

At this point, I need evidence. But I'm certainly not going to absolutely declare a god does not exist as absolute fact.

 

I will say there is no objective recognizable evidence to support that there is a god.

 

As for the nature of the being....first we need evidence of the being. Haggling over which religion got it "right" comes way way after.

 

That's something the religious types just don't get. Say we found proof of a deity. EVERY religion on the planet would either claim it, or claim the evidence was false, or even claim the evidence was actually proof of a devil.

 

Proving the existence of a god is really the least of it. Existence alone gives not evidence as to the deity's nature, temperment, or even if it operates along a behavioral pattern remotely recognizable to a human being. What after all, does an ant percieve when a human being is tying a shoelace in front of it?

[SWIM]

but what harm is there in supposing some sort of creator god set our universe in motion.

 

No harm at all until folks get "carried away with it". I suppose religion was born first with way. Cavemen mostly speculated about this (on a much more primative level of course).

 

It can lead to harm when you suddenly feel you are "on to something" and feel the need to share this "good news" with others. Sharing sometimes leads to forcing.

 

Religion itself appears to be not harmful at all on the surface, it's how people "share" their religion that causes the most problems.

[upstarter]

I'd like to understand deists better. It's just a choice I don't understand. Does being a deist simply mean that you think there is a god, or gods? How does it affect your daily life? Do you pray to this god, or these gods? Do you expect answers? Do you live your life differently than you would if there were no god?

 

I'm curious. For me, I don't really think about god or gods at all. There might be one or more... I see no evidence for that, but what do I know? I simply don't care one way or the other. If someone gave me concrete proof today that there is in fact a god or gods, well I'd believe it, sure. But would it change anything about my life? I don't think so.

 

So I'm just curious why one would call themself a deist and what does that mean.

 

Heather

[white_raven23]

I'd like to understand deists better. It's just a choice I don't understand.

I don't really consider myself the best rep for deism. To me it's just a label, and I've recently done away with labels entirely.

Ever see a Hardline deist and a hardline atheist get into an argument? It's completely redundant given it's based around what we don't know. It's like mastrubating without coming. Pointless.

 

Basically, as I understood it, it was the belief that there is a supreme being.

But one who pretty much got the ball of the universe rolling, and stepped back to let it develop on it's own, or went off to start a new project some otherwhere.

Does being a deist simply mean that you think there is a god, or gods?

Pretty much. A creator force of some kind.

How does it affect your daily life?

Deism is not a religion. Deism is keeping "god" but throwing out all religions as wrong, pointless, and unneccesary.

Do you pray to this god, or these gods?

No. What the fuck for? Better off admitting you are talking to your self and be done. No one is listening.

Do you expect answers?

Nope.

Do you live your life differently than you would if there were no god?

No. Why? There's no divine punisher/rewarder concept.

[The-Captain]

I'd like to understand deists better. It's just a choice I don't understand.

I don't really consider myself the best rep for deism. To me it's just a label, and I've recently done away with labels entirely.

Ever see a Hardline deist and a hardline atheist get into an argument? It's completely redundant given it's based around what we don't know. It's like mastrubating without coming. Pointless.

 

Basically, as I understood it, it was the belief that there is a supreme being.

But one who pretty much got the ball of the universe rolling, and stepped back to let it develop on it's own, or went off to start a new project some otherwhere.

Does being a deist simply mean that you think there is a god, or gods?

Pretty much. A creator force of some kind.

How does it affect your daily life?

Deism is not a religion. Deism is keeping "god" but throwing out all religions as wrong, pointless, and unneccesary.

Do you pray to this god, or these gods?

No. What the fuck for? Better off admitting you are talking to your self and be done. No one is listening.

Do you expect answers?

Nope.

Do you live your life differently than you would if there were no god?

No. Why? There's no divine punisher/rewarder concept.

 

Well said, basically like agnosticsm, but instead of saying maybe you say sure why not. I consider myself an atheist in that I dont see the evidence of gods, but with a deistic god we wouldnt be expecting Zeus or Yaweh or anything like that. Just some sort of force, likely intelligent that ordered and created our universe (maybe just ours) for some reason. Like Michael said before thats probably how religion starts, but I think one of the only tenets of deism is that a creator doesnt communicate through words, scripture or personal revelations/visions, but through the natrual universe and scientific law. Maybe its just atheism lite, in that deists couldnt abandon some kind of god concept but its not like its really designed to change the way we live or anything its just supposing some sort of creator. And honestly I think it makes a little sense, with evolution/general big bang theory we have an idea of how life and the universe came about, but what I cant understand (perhaps from lack of imagination or education) is why life would start. Why would life just start developing from the physical non-living universe? We may never know or perhaps we will someday, but until then it could hardly hurt to be a deist. I think...

[SWIM]

Deism from wiki:

 

Deism is a religious philosophy and movement that derives the existence and nature of God from reason and personal experience. This is in contrast to fideism which is found in many forms of Christianity[1]. Islam, Judaism and Catholic teachings hold that religion relies on revelation in sacred scriptures or the testimony of other people as well as reasoning.

 

Deists typically reject supernatural events (prophecy, miracles) and tend to assert that God does not interfere with human life and the laws of the universe. What organized religions see as divine revelation and holy books, most deists see as interpretations made by other humans, rather than as authoritative sources.

 

Agnosticism from wiki:

 

(from the Greek a, meaning "without", and gnosticism or gnosis, meaning "knowledge") is the philosophical view that the truth value of certain claims—particularly metaphysical claims regarding theology, afterlife or the existence of God, gods, deities, or even ultimate reality—is unknown or, depending on the form of agnosticism, inherently unknowable due to the nature of subjective experience.

 

Agnostics claim either that it is not possible to have absolute or certain knowledge of the existence or nonexistence of God or gods; or, alternatively, that while individual certainty may be possible, they personally have no knowledge. Agnosticism in both cases involves some form of skepticism. Some agnostics are termed agnostic theists since, while they do not claim to know any deity exists, they do believe (with varying degrees on skepticism) in, at least, one.

 

Though both are "close" there is a difference, deism pretty much is convinced totally there *is* a god, where an agnostic, is open either way.

[scitsofreaky]

Anyone interested in deism should check out the archives of a deist forum that is, well, not active (the creator got really busy with life and such so he had to shut it down). But, unless you were a member before it shut down, you can't see all of the sub-forums. One could also check out the Deist Alliance (which the above forum was a part of).

 

Depending on how I'm feeling, I may lean towards deism, or I may not. I used to really think about god and such, but it doesn't interest me as much right now.

Though both are "close" there is a difference, deism pretty much is convinced totally there *is* a god, where an agnostic, is open either way.

Many of the deists I have talked with aren't "totally convinced" of god, but they think there is a reason to believe there is. So many teeter on the edge between deism and agnosticism.

[bellsybop]

Well, from my standpoint in deism, I tend to acknowledge the idea that something created us. I don't lean toward evolution theories.

I do not pray. I detest religion and the bible. I look at the creator as an energy perhaps.

 

Why do I choose to believe that something created us??? Good question.

I guess the answer is simply..... because.

 

I don't think the energy interferes with us. I think perhaps it was stated best in the book Conversation with God, that this energy as I call it is a creator and keeps re-creating through us.

But, I could really care less what the reason for it all is. I'm just thankful for what I am, what I have, and the people I love.

I try to do my best as an individual and don't sweat the rest.

 

I guess in a way, I chose to let myself be a deist to give myself a label. We're kind of creatures of habit. Although deists do not claim any type of religious name.... we are just deist and nothing more.

Some will believe more spiritually towards their god, or energy than others, but we don't criticize any one person's way of thinking.

 

I just wish I would've been raised to be a deist. I hope my children are happy in their lives being raised deist.

[Jedah]

If their is a God, then its the deistic one for sure. The only thing I dont like is how some deists still try to defend the idea that god can be all loving. God isn't all loving or all evil, its pretty easy to tell that if anything he/she/it/whatever is probobly neutral. Something like the tao.

[SWIM]

Many of the deists I have talked with aren't "totally convinced" of god, but they think there is a reason to believe there is. So many teeter on the edge between deism and agnosticism.

 

 

That would make them agnostic then, not a deist.

[The-Captain]

Many of the deists I have talked with aren't "totally convinced" of god, but they think there is a reason to believe there is. So many teeter on the edge between deism and agnosticism.

 

 

That would make them agnostic then, not a deist.

 

Or an apathetic deist?

[Skankboy]

Well, from my standpoint in deism, I tend to acknowledge the idea that something created us. I don't lean toward evolution theories.

 

Hi Bellsybop,

 

I'm a little confused by this statement. In my mind they 2 are completely different subjects (the creation of life vs. the evolution of life). Would you be able to clarify?

 

Thanks,

Skankboy

[1oddmanout]

Many of the deists I have talked with aren't "totally convinced" of god, but they think there is a reason to believe there is. So many teeter on the edge between deism and agnosticism.

 

 

That would make them agnostic then, not a deist.

 

Or an apathetic deist?

 

Interesting; so I looked for agnostic forums and found:

www.agnosticforums.com

www.agnosticfront.com/forum

 

(I'm having a really boring day at work )

[The-Captain]

No offense to any deists here, but the more I look at it deism seems like one step down from religion, one step away from atheism. Maybe thats why deism had its heyday during the enlightenment with thinkers that didnt want religion but wouldnt move completely away from the god concept. After all in the late 18th century there were alot more gaps to fit god into and the overall intellectual climate was alot harsher on all out atheism.

[1oddmanout]

Many of the deists I have talked with aren't "totally convinced" of god, but they think there is a reason to believe there is. So many teeter on the edge between deism and agnosticism.

 

 

That would make them agnostic then, not a deist.

 

Or an apathetic deist?

 

Interesting; so I looked for agnostic forums and found:

www.agnosticforums.com

www.agnosticfront.com/forum

 

(I'm having a really boring day at work )

 

Wow, is not checking the links before posting called 'computer-in-mouth-disease'? The link to agnosticfront is for a hardcore rock band (which I'm sure to check out when I get home). Also, my computer at work won't connect t the other link.

[upstarter]

No offense to any deists here, but the more I look at it deism seems like one step down from religion, one step away from atheism. Maybe thats why deism had its heyday during the enlightenment with thinkers that didnt want religion but wouldnt move completely away from the god concept. After all in the late 18th century there were alot more gaps to fit god into and the overall intellectual climate was alot harsher on all out atheism.

 

I tend to agree. Certainly deism causes no trouble to anyone, so why would we discourage anyone or put anyone down? I get that some people (many people, for all of human history really) need the security of believing in some god force. What I don't understand is the need to label oneself.

 

I "believe" in lots of things that I have no personal evidence for. I believe in geothermic heating for instance. I've read stuff about it. I've never been in a house with it, I don't know anyone who has it. But I believe it exists. It just has no impact on my life. But I don't call myself a "geothermist". I believe in the Great Barrier Reef. I've seen pictures. People have told me they've been there. I've never been there myself. But I believe in the Great Barrier Reef. But I don't call myself a "Great Barrier Reefist".

 

I'm not trying to be offensive, though I have a feeling I've probably offended someone. I just don't understand the need to label oneself with something that really has no impact on how you live your daily life. How do you "raise your children" as deists? What exactly will that mean to who they become, as opposed to my kids who are being told there is no god? When they are adults in this world, will they be very different people? I just don't know.

 

Heather

[bellsybop]

Well, from my standpoint in deism, I tend to acknowledge the idea that something created us. I don't lean toward evolution theories.

 

Hi Bellsybop,

 

I'm a little confused by this statement. In my mind they 2 are completely different subjects (the creation of life vs. the evolution of life). Would you be able to clarify?

 

Thanks,

Skankboy

 

Maybe I didn't word it correctly. I believe something created us. Why or how I have no clue, nor do I particularly care.

Evolution doesn't make sense to me... but honestly, neither does an energy creating life either.

I just feel that sticking with an energy form (god) maybe did it.

But who knows?

Sorry if I wasn't clear.

[MathGeek]

To me, this is deism in a pessemistic nutshell,

 

This is a passage from Fight Club

 

Me, I knew my dad for about six years, but I don't remember anything. My dad, he starts a new family in a new town about every six years. This isn't so much like a family as it's like he sets up a franchise.

[Skankboy]

I believe something created us. Why or how I have no clue, nor do I particularly care.

Evolution doesn't make sense to me... but honestly, neither does an energy creating life either.

 

I guess that's what's confusing me. The theory of Evolution has nothing to do with the origin of life. The two are completely different subjects. No offence, but ot seems to me you may need to read up on it a bit more. Most people who make this mistake tend to not really understand the principles of the theory (just my opinion mind you). There are a lot of great resources around here on the subject and I'm sure they'd be willing to answer any questions you might have.

 

I believe something created us.

Would you be able to expand upon why you believe this? I've heard several different scenarios for this idea, but I'm curious what your rational is.

 

Thanks,

Skankboy

[Ouroboros]

I believe something created us.

Would you be able to expand upon why you believe this? I've heard several different scenarios for this idea, but I'm curious what your rational is.

Don't we all believe this? The Universe is "something". The Big Bang is "something". The pre-big-bang-progresso-hot-chicken-noodle-soup was/is something too. I think the problem is rather in the definition of this "something". Was/is this something alive? Is it a being? Is it thinking? Is it aware and planning, etc..? Or is it just a machine, mechanics of some physical/meta-physical world? It seems like Deists believe this creating force is able to think, while atheists do not, but we all have to believe in some form of "creating" force - conscious or not.

 

A lot of conflicts come from misunderstanding of defintions or disagreements of the same, and I think the above is a perfect example of how fragile and complicated communication and transference of ideas really is!

[The-Captain]

I believe something created us.

Would you be able to expand upon why you believe this? I've heard several different scenarios for this idea, but I'm curious what your rational is.

Don't we all believe this? The Universe is "something". The Big Bang is "something". The pre-big-bang-progresso-hot-chicken-noodle-soup was/is something too. I think the problem is rather in the definition of this "something". Was/is this something alive? Is it a being? Is it thinking? Is it aware and planning, etc..? Or is it just a machine, mechanics of some physical/meta-physical world? It seems like Deists believe this creating force is able to think, while atheists do not, but we all have to believe in some form of "creating" force - conscious or not.

 

A lot of conflicts come from misunderstanding of defintions or disagreements of the same, and I think the above is a perfect example of how fragile and complicated communication and transference of ideas really is!

 

Alright! Alright! Hint taken, I'll get right on figuring out that instant telepathic communication.