Jump to content
Goodbye Jesus

Christian Turned Pagan


One_World

Recommended Posts

Hey Everyone,

 

I'm new to these forums but am loving them so far for the great discussions fostered here. I started a thread over in Testimonies describing my faith side and was asked by DevaLight to share my views here. I debated over starting a new thread vs. contributing to another...hope I chose okay.

 

I was raised Catholic and went ahead and got officially confirmed at age 17. I attended Catholic school from K-8th grade and went to Mass with my family most Sundays until I was confirmed. Upon receiving the sacrament of Confirmation, my mom told me that, as an adult in the Church, I could decide to attend Mass or not from here on out. I chose not to attend, having never gained anything spiritually from a single Mass. I would sit through church every week daydreaming or hating being there. I was jealous of my friends who didn't have to go to church except for Easter and Christmas.

 

During my time away from the Church (8+ years now) I began viewing the Catholic religion in a more detached light. I realized there were many paths in this life for spiritual growth...why is X religion THE way? Further, the radical interpretations of the Bible the diehard Christians came up with to support their outrageously xenophobic views really turned me off.

 

Still, my parents and extended family are devoutly Catholic and I love them dearly. I don't want to sit and scoff at what they believe, because I too believe in God and Jesus. I just feel many branches of Christianity have built their own agendas and ruined the meaning of the Golden Rule.

 

In college, I wrote a paper about natural healing and chakra alignment. I really liked the concepts I learned during the course of my research, but I knew it was "against" Christianity. By this point, I was fairly ambivalent to organized religion. I followed this research with casual reading about Buddhism and various other Eastern practices. I really liked the idea of helping oneself through mediation and breathing exercises rather than focused prayer while kneeling in pew. From Buddhism I incorporated the idea of karma and reincarnation into my own private belief set. Notice how I'm transitioned further and further from Catholicism.

 

Through various internet forums, I've met many self-identified Pagans. I began learning about this and found them as a group to be very tolerant and warm. I have always been drawn to all things Celtic, particularly Ireland. With no Irish heritage that I'm aware of, I began to wonder if I was being drawn to Celtic Paganism. I began exploring this a bit on my own and found that so much of it felt *right* in my heart. I expanded this to Wicca since it had many ideas I feel in agreement with.

 

*I believe that the higher power is a duality; that is there's a masculine and a feminine aspect to it. The idea of Mother Earth and Father Sky is appealing to me.

 

*I believe in the existence of Jesus. Somehow, I believe he was part divine and was a genuinely great person who preached love.

 

*I believe the higher power created many gods and goddesses, individual deities that call to certain people who are receptive and in need of their guidance. Having said this, I have never made contact.

 

*I believe in the spiritual side of the natural world. All plants/animals/water/air/earth has energy that vibrates in our consciousness.

 

 

 

Thanks for reading a long and scattered post like this. It's just my style ;)

 

Can anyone relate?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 50
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • One_World

    16

  • Kei

    5

  • Deva

    3

  • florduh

    3

Top Posters In This Topic

Well I can definately relate even if some of my beliefs differ.

 

I have had a very long deconversion process from Christianity, on the order of 25 years. I was raised independent Baptist. For many years I desperately tried to make it work. I finally dropped all Christian doctrine about 10 years ago but I never thought that meant that I had to give up thinking about what is real and the "why" things are as they are. Philosophy and religion are concerned with these questions and I am interested in finding something satisfying both intellectually and aesthetically in religion that will help me in my life. There is still something beautiful for me in the religious/spiritual sensibility. I am totally convinced that the power of religious belief can be tremendous and help in the most arduous circumstances. It is a part of me that I see no reason to cut off. I don't see it as just substituting one God for another. I'll find something that works for ME and is true for ME.

 

I see religion connected with the artistic sense (aesthetics), and the unknown. By the unknown I mean the question is there life after death and why do things happen in this life the way they do?

 

So what happens if a particular religion is unsatisfactory and becomes painful? Discard it. Easier said than done. I feel that I have made tremendous progress recently through coming upon this site and working out some of the remaining anger at having Christianity forced upon me. So I think when one can look back on it in a dispassionate, analytical way, then the deconversion process is winding down.

 

Now I just go with the religious/spiritual views that I find helpful, inspiring of devotion and beautiful in this rather difficult existence. I have a non-dualistic view of God which is not a personal God that is somewhere "out there" but who is everywhere. I also very much appreciate Buddhist teachings (although they are not about God) and have only in the past few days thought seriously about becoming involved in my local Dharma Center. This is quite a leap for me since I have not regularly attended any church or other organized religion for 10 years.

 

I have gradually come around to holding the view of rebirth. Just a few scattered thoughts. There are a few of us here that have gone through a search process to find a new meaning in these matters.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Can anyone relate?

 

Hello.

I am also new to this site and am also an ex-catholic turned pagan.

i only really discovered that my beliefs are pagan a couple of months ago, so i don't have a fully formed idea yet, but i know that i was meant to be a pagan.

 

i do not retain any of the christian diety in my concept of "god"(i don't really like to use the word god much, but i can't think of another one) but i do very much like the golden rule. that's probably one of the only beliefs from christianity i still carry in my heart.

 

i suppose i could describe my views on "the higher forces" (i guess i'll refer to them as that) could be described as animist/panentheist and probably a dash of polythiesm mixed up in there!

 

i too really like the concept of mother earth and father sky, and i feel a strong kinship with the earth and nature.

 

although (for me) i'm not sure if they are really personified beings or more of an energy.

 

it's something i often contemplate.

 

anyway it's nice to see other ex-catholics turned pagans.(or pagans at all haha)

 

it's a rare occurence for me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

DevaLight,

 

I appreciate your views, certainly. I particularly agree with your statement that you're not swapping one God for another. I don't feel I'm doing that either, at least as a main objective. I follow what feels right to me...perhaps I'll reach a point in life (maybe sooner than later) where what feels right to me is the most logical atheist path...that's okay with me as long as I'm happy with myself.

 

On another forum where I discussed my issues and my feelings on Christianity and Paganism, someone suggested that people who veer away from Christianity towards another faith can often find themselves back in the Christian fold before long, this time more militant than ever. I seriously disagree with that because this exploration of my spirituality will NOT lead me back to a religion full of delusion and custom-fit apologies for hatred by "Christians".

 

Good for you for thinking about getting involved with a Dharma Center...I considered the local UU services not too long ago and just felt scared to step into a building like that. If I'm to be spiritual, it cannot be rigid. I think you're on the right path ;) Buddhism is very interesting as a way to try to live life...I think the best aspects of religion act as a sort of guide for how to live right. I consider Buddhism more a philosophy than a religion, which is what I believe you also said.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Kei,

 

Our views are pretty closely aligned I think. Some days I hate Christianity and the concept of that God, other days I believe there is a Christian God in existence and that his name is being used terribly in today's world to justify all kinds of terrible things. It's really totally confusing, but through it all I feel that my heart is Pagan and that I too have a strong kinship with the earth and nature.

 

I too am not sure if the beings are actual beings or just energies. I sometimes feel like there's more riding on a gust of wind that just particles of dirt, if that doesn't sound too crazy. When I stand on the shore of Lake Michigan and feel the waves crashing on a breezy day, there's a distinct energy to it. This can be explained by science of course, but why can't there be *something* else to it?

 

I think our Catholic background has provided a good foundation for Paganism to thrive, that's one positive through the mess.

 

Good luck on your journey, I'll be there too.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Good for you for thinking about getting involved with a Dharma Center...I considered the local UU services not too long ago and just felt scared to step into a building like that. If I'm to be spiritual, it cannot be rigid. I think you're on the right path ;) Buddhism is very interesting as a way to try to live life...I think the best aspects of religion act as a sort of guide for how to live right. I consider Buddhism more a philosophy than a religion, which is what I believe you also said.

 

No, I'm not substituting one God for another but still concerned about moving from one box into another. The "rigidity" problem, as you say. So far, Buddhism doesn't give me that restrictive feeling.

 

Probably the major issue I have with any organized religion at this point in my life is that of spiritual authorities. It really isn't that I think I know everything, and it much depends on the teacher, but Buddhism has Lamas and Roshis as leaders so I will still have to deal with this issue no matter what branch of Buddhism I go into. It is just that the notion of elevating or venerating a human being as if he/she is holier than others is a tough one for me.

 

I investigated the Unitarian Church back in the early 90's. I went there for a year or so, and then left because I didn't care for the church- like atmosphere way too reminiscient for me of protestant christianity. It could be that some other UU churches are quite different than the one I went to. They were also deeply into causes and activism. Nothing wrong with that, but that is more politics than religion to me and I just wasn't satisfied or too interested. As I said, I link religion with aesthetics.

 

I have investigated different kinds of Christianity. None of it fits me. I think now its because at the root of it is always the Bible and I just don't agree with the world views (and there are contradictory ones) in the Bible. I also became convinced that no book is "holy". Irreconcilable differences.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Rigidity and spiritual authorities are my two main problems with organized religion. I've always hated Confession because I didn't believe in the priest's status as listener of sins and absolver of sins. My parents gave me chores when I misbehaved, I didn't need a priest for that!

 

The welcoming aspect of UU is what drew me...the way they didn't seem to judge a person based on personal faith beliefs. However, I just didn't want to attend services. I don't enjoy religion for the sense of community, and the services seemed very New Age Christian for the most part. I agree with you on the politics involved too. I dislike my faith telling me how to think, particularly with non-faith matters.

 

UU was the closest thing to Christianity I thought I might feel comfortable with...as a former Catholic I knew it would be fruitless trying on Baptist, Evangelical, Methodist, Lutheran, etc. They'd all feel as judgemental as the others.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Super Moderator
*I believe that the higher power is a duality; that is there's a masculine and a feminine aspect to it. The idea of Mother Earth and Father Sky is appealing to me.

 

*I believe in the existence of Jesus. Somehow, I believe he was part divine and was a genuinely great person who preached love.

 

*I believe the higher power created many gods and goddesses, individual deities that call to certain people who are receptive and in need of their guidance. Having said this, I have never made contact.

 

*I believe in the spiritual side of the natural world. All plants/animals/water/air/earth has energy that vibrates in our consciousness.

 

 

Christianity (and other religions) get their ideas and claim authority from the Bible as the inspired word of God. They go to great lengths to "prove" the book to be valid.

 

I am curious, no disrespect intended, why you have adopted the beliefs you outlined in your post. What is the evidence or authority for believing those things?

 

I have wondered where people get their non-mainstream religious beliefs for some time now, and you just stated yours here, so I'm picking on you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Another ex catholic here. I'd describe myself as a pagan athiest though.

 

Always nice to meet a fellow ex catholic.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sure, I'll try to address each point according to my beliefs.

 

*I believe in a duality of the higher power because of the fact that although male myself, I never liked the Catholic Church's teachings that men are superior. Male/female is the yin/yang of every species on earth. Otherwise, we'd be asexual beings, no? I have no rational explanation for why the concept of Mother Earth/Father Sky appeals to me, but I don't take it literally.

 

*I believe in the existence of Jesus. That one's easy, I also believe in the existence of Thomas Jefferson, Jim Morrison, Sitting Bull, Jenna Jameson, etc. Heck, there are lots of humans who have existed, Jesus is one of those. Am I convinced he is the Son of God sent to earth? No, not really. I think there was something special about him...I don't take his actions in the Bible as truth, but I do think he was a teacher who taught the golden rule. I respect that.

 

*I believe in the idea of many gods and goddesses. If there's one, why stop at one? I know many people who feel braver believing Thor is watching them or more at peace with Lu nearby. Just because I haven't personally experienced it doesn't discount their beliefs. The idea has just always felt real to me, I guess I'm not sure why.

 

*I believe in the spiritual side of nature. This is the pure optimist in me. I try to see the best in everything and I believe that there's more that guides the life of an ant than mere biological processes. I think everything has a lifeforce (soul?). Witness the power of a thunderstorm and if you don't feel some spirit inside you buzzing...I can't comprehend that. Nature is all around us, we just have to learn to listen.

 

I'm not offended or disrespected in the least. I can see where you're coming from...rereading what I've just typed I can see where all of it can be considered garbage to someone with a different viewpoint. I think maybe that's the aspect of faith...believing in what you feel despite the strict rational side of your being asking for proof.

 

I guess I want to believe that there's more to life that just existing. When I hear stories of people killing their dog by shooting it for no good reason because the dog had an accident in the house, I want to think that dog's spirit is in a better place now. It's so hard to look at the situation and think, "Well, that's the end of the dog because it's just an organic lifeform that ceases to exist".

 

Did I clarify my views at all? I think when someone leaves the Christian faith, they can go two ways: to non-mainstream faiths or to no faith. Either option is generally a far cry from Christianity, which is satisfying. A natural earth-based belief net appeals to my personality and maybe it will work for me. Perhaps, more time spent on this board will convince me that faith is the crutch of the weak. That's okay too, as long as I'm satisfied. I'm just looking for some personal truth, as we all are.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Another ex catholic here. I'd describe myself as a pagan athiest though.

 

Always nice to meet a fellow ex catholic.

 

Nice to meet you too! Can you explain what a pagan atheist is, please? I'm intrigued.

 

I would classify myself as an agnostic theist with weird overtones of paganism mixed in. In other words, confused.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Super Moderator
I guess I want to believe that there's more to life that just existing.

 

 

OK, thanks. Good answer. I want to believe too, but I just can't.

 

For practicality, I PRETEND that Buddhist ideas are pretty much right and live my life accordingly. I need evidence to believe things to be true, but behaving "spiritually" toward others (and myself) pays off in real life. The "spirit" may not exist, but humans behaving intelligently toward each other is a good thing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

OK, thanks. Good answer. I want to believe too, but I just can't.

 

For practicality, I PRETEND that Buddhist ideas are pretty much right and live my life accordingly. I need evidence to believe things to be true, but behaving "spiritually" toward others (and myself) pays off in real life. The "spirit" may not exist, but humans behaving intelligently toward each other is a good thing.

 

You said it, man. We have to treat each other well while we're here because there may well be nothing more. Doing good with one's life can never be wrong. Good discussion, thanks!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Kei,

 

Our views are pretty closely aligned I think. Some days I hate Christianity and the concept of that God, other days I believe there is a Christian God in existence and that his name is being used terribly in today's world to justify all kinds of terrible things. It's really totally confusing, but through it all I feel that my heart is Pagan and that I too have a strong kinship with the earth and nature.

 

I too am not sure if the beings are actual beings or just energies. I sometimes feel like there's more riding on a gust of wind that just particles of dirt, if that doesn't sound too crazy. When I stand on the shore of Lake Michigan and feel the waves crashing on a breezy day, there's a distinct energy to it. This can be explained by science of course, but why can't there be *something* else to it?

 

I think our Catholic background has provided a good foundation for Paganism to thrive, that's one positive through the mess.

 

Good luck on your journey, I'll be there too.

 

i think i know what you mean about the wind. i often feel the same senstaion of being hugged warmly when i am caught in a strong breeze. haha. odd sounding i know. oh well.

 

i believe that science and paganism(or whatever other form of religion or whatever you follow) can work hand-in-hand.

 

it's just a matter of looking (and feeling)beyond the surface.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Even back in my serious Christian days, I laughed whenever the creationists would start up at church about how wrong evolution is. I thought evolution made a ton more sense as a whole, but I've always believed a divine spark began the natural processes that led to evolution. It really doesn't have to be as black and white as both sides want to make it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Even back in my serious Christian days, I laughed whenever the creationists would start up at church about how wrong evolution is. I thought evolution made a ton more sense as a whole, but I've always believed a divine spark began the natural processes that led to evolution. It really doesn't have to be as black and white as both sides want to make it.

 

as much as i try to respect others' beliefs...

 

refusing to believe in evolution, which has pretty much been proven....is just silly. my mother taught me evolution was very real. god just looked like a trilobite or something along those lines. and she describes herself as a devout catholic.

 

although she also taught me that god is everywhere...which was not taught to me in church.

 

and i have found to be a widely accepted pagan belief.

 

i'm off topic now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

i've been looking into paganism carefully....especially more occultic forms

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Kei - Not off-topic at all...you're discussing a form of spirituality in the correct forum...I appreciate the discussion. The idea that God is everywhere, that's pantheism, right? At least I thought I learned that once. This board is kind of intimidating in that it seems everyone here has a better grasp of religion and philosophy than I do, even forms they do not believe in.

 

Insanity Personified - Funny username. What are these occultic forms of paganism you've been looking into? And how does one explore such things carefully (as opposed to carelessly)? I'm interested in your thoughts, thanks.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I dabbled in paganism after I left the church. Then I realized a problem and asked myself 'why should I stop following one set of ritualistic nonsense based on fables and chase after another one?' I quit. I just don't see the logic of trading one fable for another.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

HereticZero,

 

That's a good point, I have to admit. I think my intention of exploring Paganism is to see if the unexplainable feelings when I explore my psyche are valid. I feel there's more to life than just hard, cold reason...right now I'm exploring that. If it turns out that I feel it is just ritualistic nonsense, it's going into the infamous circular file. I don't take faith lightly, buzzing and zipping in and out of whatever's popular. I just want to find what works for me and better yet, that there's some truth to it after all.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Super Moderator

"Dabbling" in Paganism is cool. The people are very nice and open. Lots of cool toys (tarot, crystals, knives, woohoo!). Good food, good drink. Many of them know it's just for fun, but some really think they have powers to influence reality. All the Pagans I've met are good people, and I can't say the same for Christians.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I dabbled in paganism after I left the church. Then I realized a problem and asked myself 'why should I stop following one set of ritualistic nonsense based on fables and chase after another one?' I quit. I just don't see the logic of trading one fable for another.

 

Honestly, I think that's a symptom of not taking the "fables" as they're intended.

 

There are two different ways of looking at religion. The Greeks characterized the approaches as logos vs. mythos. Logos is an approach from a rational, logical perspective. The word "logos", literally meaning "word," is where we get the word "logic." Mythos, in contrast, involves the rejection of the logical worldview insofar as the purpose is not to get a literal truth, but to involve oneself in (subjectively) timeless stories that give context and meaning to one's life. This is not to say that logic is entirely abandoned--logic in the modern sense of the word cannot be--but there is a focus on the non-rational. As long as one makes the distinction, one can involve oneself in both. The ancient philosophers were intensely logical in their writings, and yet they did not shun the pagan ceremonies of the state.

 

One of the biggest problems with Christianity is that it wants to have its cake and eat it, too. It tries to be both logical and mythical at the same time, treating stories that should clearly be read mythically as logically true as well. Atheists coming of Christianity generally accept that the logical and mythical should be not only harmonized but synthesized, and so they accept logical truths as their new myths and fables. While this is not entirely a bad approach, I believe it is usually followed without adequate attention to the possibility of a distinction.

 

So, when a pagan performs rituals, it is not the same at all as a Christian communion. To ask the Christian whether they are literally accepting the grace of God is entirely appropriate. One cannot ask the pagan whether he is literally giving offerings to Pan without committing a category error. To begin to analyze a pagan myth from a literal perspective is to fail to understand what it is. It would be like trying to judge a culture of bacteria in a petri dish by its aesthetic qualities.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I dabbled in paganism after I left the church. Then I realized a problem and asked myself 'why should I stop following one set of ritualistic nonsense based on fables and chase after another one?' I quit. I just don't see the logic of trading one fable for another.

 

EXACTLY! That's what I wonder too, how someone can decide that Jesus isn't God and that Yahweh is absurd, and turn around and say that they believe in the Mother Goddess or Woden or other such nonsense.

 

What's the point of deconverting at all, then? People realize that it's just an emotional reaction based on ascientific nonsense. So what makes any other god any more real?? I mean, I know the purpose of this site is to help people recover from the delusion of Christianity, but perhaps there should be a separate section for helping people understand that going from one delusion to another delusion is absurd.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

EXACTLY! That's what I wonder too, how someone can decide that Jesus isn't God and that Yahweh is absurd, and turn around and say that they believe in the Mother Goddess or Woden or other such nonsense.

 

What's the point of deconverting at all, then? People realize that it's just an emotional reaction based on ascientific nonsense. So what makes any other god any more real?? I mean, I know the purpose of this site is to help people recover from the delusion of Christianity, but perhaps there should be a separate section for helping people understand that going from one delusion to another delusion is absurd.

 

In my short time here I've found that separate section to be every other forum on this fine site. It's well and good that you consider spirituality to be a bunch of nonsensical delusions, but for some of us it's trying to find some higher truth in a difficult existence.

 

Personally, I didn't decide to eliminate the possibility of the Christian God. I fell away from the Christian Church as an organized religion. The point of deconverting is to clear one's mind of the socio-political b.s. of Christianity. It's falling out of step in the line of hate that has been created by the Christian Church.

 

Perhaps you have decided that anything you can't analyze scientifically is bogus. I respect that. Please consider the possibility that others of us are not as advanced as you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

....perhaps there should be a separate section for helping people understand that going from one delusion to another delusion is absurd.

 

As One_World has pointed out, this is the one forum on this site where the rules state:

 

"In this one area of Ex-Christian.net, each individual who has adopted an alternative spiritual expression should feel encouraged to freely express any experiences, thoughts, or opinions without fear of being brow beaten, harshly criticized, or condemned."

 

There is no such rule for any other forum on this site.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Guidelines.