Messiah Requirements and also.....

[Savedbyfaith]

Virus... still... there...

Losing... capacity... to... think...

Feeling... urge... to... agree... with... fundies...

Noooo.... I've lost the ability to use the quote function.

Help me...

 

[braindead CT] Ha... God has called me to his side. Now I will sit there and dribble in ecstatic PVS for eternity.

 

[sBF] Remarkable! Fastest cure I've ever seen.

[crazy-tiger]

Virus... still... there...

Losing... capacity... to... think...

Feeling... urge... to... agree... with... fundies...

Noooo.... I've lost the ability to use the quote function.

Help me...

 

[braindead CT] Ha... God has called me to his side. Now I will sit there and dribble in ecstatic PVS for eternity.

 

[sBF] Remarkable! Fastest cure I've ever seen.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Was it a cure, or is it a terminal case?

[Savedbyfaith]

SBF? Can you please use the quote function properly?

 

You're getting the code right at the start, but you need to end the quote with the end code as well...

 

Try putting

at the end of what you're quoting. It'll make it a lot easier to read your posts.

 

[sBF] Sorry to be such a dunce. Are you saying to type in

before and after something written by someone else? Or, do you use the quote key? What is code? I see the button, but what does it do and how do you use it?

[crazy-tiger]

[sBF]Sorry to be such a dunce. Are you saying to type in

before and after something written by someone else? Or, do you use the quote key? What is code? I see the button, but what does it do and how do you use it?

 

I'll try my best...

 

When you want to quote the post, click the "reply" button that's at the top of the post you want to quote. That automatically sets the post into your reply box with the codes to get it "quoted" when you post.

 

If you're wanting to quote part of a post, or quote something from elsewhere, then you can use the "quote" button that's above the reply box. Click it once to start the quote, enter what you want quoting, then click it again to close the quote.

 

If you want to answer several points seperately, then you can highlight what you want quoting, (like you would when doing a copy/paste) and clicking the "quote" button once, or you can type

at the start and

at the end of what you want to answer.

 

Oh, and you can't have more than 10 seperate quotes in a post, or it screws the quote function up. (and it looks a mess too )

[Ouroboros]

at the end of what you're quoting. It'll make it a lot easier to read your posts.

 

[sBF] Sorry to be such a dunce.  Are you saying to type in [ quote] before and after something written by someone else? Or, do you use the quote key?  What is code? I see the button, but what does it do and how do you use it?

 

Anything between the [ QUOTE ] and the [ /QUOTE ] will appear as:

 

Inside a quote.

[Ouroboros]

SBF, Just click on reply to this message and look at the code.

[Amanda]

Sorry, Amanda.  Gotta call bs on ya.

 

Isaiah 7:14 uses the hebrew word "almah".  this can mean: virgin, young woman, of marriageable age,  maiden or newly married.  The word occurs six other times in the bible, and five of those, it is translated as "maiden".

 

The hebrew word for virgin is "bethulah".  If the writer of Isaiah had wanted to say virgin, he would have used the word bethulah. 

 

But, it's really kind of irrelevant, cause virgins don't have babies.  Even third graders know that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Hey Mythra... just to let you know... I got my information from http://www.crosswalk.com/ through Bible Study Tools using KJV with Strong Numbers, and as I've said... I know some transcribers seem to allow a persuasion by their personal views. Here is what it said..

 

Isaiah 7

7:14

Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel *.

 

virgin:

Strong's Number: 05959 Browse Lexicon

Original Word Word Origin

hml[ from (05958)

Transliterated Word TDNT Entry

`almah TWOT - 1630b

Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech

al-maw' Noun Feminine

 

Definition

virgin, young woman

of marriageable age

maid or newly married ++++ There is no instance where it can be proved that this word designates a young woman who is not a virgin. (TWOT)

 

Mythra, I have read in another resource book that there were instances where a woman was considered a virgin who was not sexually chaste. I personally think Mary was though. Do you know another free site on the internet that offers concordance with dictionaries that you think are more accurate? I'd be interested if you know one.

 

So Mythra, are ya' calling me bs or the site I used?

[Amanda]

So why does the Bible portray the death and resurrection with thunder, and earthquakes, bunches of dead people walking on the streets, etc? It sounds to me that the fishermen if the Bible, continued their practice of fishermen stories and made everything sound larger and bigger than it really was.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

HanSolo, fwiw.. some, like me, consider these more importantly as metaphors... thunder meaning 'bringing attention given to a higher perspective', earthquakes referring to the 'personal foundations on which people stood were shaken' (like you've done to me a couple of times ), and the saints that came out of their graves are people that came out of their remembrance of who they are. However, I do believe that the person Jesus is real, and the crucifiction did happen closely to what is depicted...

[Ouroboros]

HanSolo, fwiw.. some, like me, consider these more importantly as metaphors... thunder meaning 'bringing attention given to a higher perspective', earthquakes referring to the 'personal foundations on which people stood were shaken' (like you've done to me a couple of times  ), and the saints that came out of their graves are people that came out of their remembrance of who they are. However, I do believe that the person Jesus is real, and the crucifiction did happen closely to what is depicted...

Yeah, I'm a shaker...

 

Anyway, you think that the stories about earthquake etc, were add-ons after the fact by the followers to make the story bigger and bolder than it really was? Like fishermen does, the big fish they caught seems to get bigger each time they tell the story.

[Mythra]

Thankful, I did go back and research the concordance and lexicons of the word 'virgin' in this specific text and it does seem to mean our present interpretation of this word.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

This is the statement I called bs on. In your next post, you pissed backwards and admitted that almah can mean "maiden", or young woman.

 

You weren't honest in this first post. Gotta stay honest, Amanda.

 

Here is why it's irrelevant, though. It was over one hundred years after the supposed time of christ before anyone mentioned him being born of a virgin. It was a late development in the story. Easy to fulfill prophecy if you got the old testament right in front of you and you're writing a novel.

 

Hell, give me Nostradamus' predictions. I'll write a short story that fulfills all of em.

[Amanda]

Anyway, you think that the stories about earthquake etc, were add-ons after the fact by the followers to make the story bigger and bolder than it really was? Like fishermen does, the big fish they caught seems to get bigger each time they tell the story.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I can see where someone today would have that opinion. Yet I think that the lethal environment of the times, concerning any adherence to these teachings, contributed to many hidden meanings... perhaps portrayed in a way seeming less threatening to their deadly pursuers? Of course that would not explain why they used these same techniques in the OT too. Was there someone after the Jews during the OT times also?

[Ouroboros]

I can see where someone today would have that opinion. Yet I think that the lethal environment of the times, concerning any adherence to these teachings, contributed to many hidden meanings... perhaps portrayed in a way seeming less threatening to their deadly pursuers? Of course that would not explain why they used these same techniques in the OT too.    Was there someone after the Jews during the OT times also?

But do you think the earthquake happened for real, or was it an addition to the scriptures to make it sound bigger?

 

And I think Jews were somewhat persecuted before 1 CE too. But I'm not sure.

[Amanda]

This is the statement I called bs on.  In your next post, you pissed backwards and admitted that almah can mean "maiden", or young woman.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I thought where it said that this word has not been proven to mean anything other than a virgin was pertaining to the whole definition. If you research it back, you will see it evolved from the word boy, and boy from something that is hidden. If I misrepresented the definition, I didn't mean to do so. I apologize if that be the case... please see for yourself... I sited my resource.

http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Hebrew...959&version=kjv

[Abiyoyo]

This is a spin off from the "Definition of Sin" thread........

The Messiah will be in the bloodline, one cannot get around this issue.  Seed is sperm, no "if's, and's or but's", seed means seed.  As far as Mary's "virgin birth", that was not a Messianic prophecy.  The prophecy that the storyteller in Matthew uses was for King Ahaz.  That's another reason that the Jews refuse to accept the Jesus story.

 

Here is another reason, this was supposed to happen IMMEDIATELY AFTER the Messiah came and please notice again that it is AFTER the Messiah comes that the New Covenant is made and that there is ZERO lapse prophesied.......

More proof of the David issue and not only that but the Lord's Tabernacle is supposed to be earthly, not heavenly.  This is speaking of an earthly reign.  Read Ezekiel 42 for the extraordinary detailed PERMANENT temple plans.  Also, notice that sacrifices will be going on also.  One need only read the OT prophets to see that the reign of the Messiah was to be an earthly one, not heavenly.  Interpret the NT spiritually if one wants to, but it still does not go hand in hand with the Old Testament.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Hello Thankful,

 

I respect your comments of the validity of Jesus. I do have a few questions though.

 

1) If looking at the Ot prophecies as a former devout Christian, If Jesus wasnt the Messiah, who was? Would we be still waitng, as believers?

 

2) Looking at Davids encounter with the Angel of the Lord, Would you agree that the story was very similar in Kings and Chronicles, yet had a variance with whom was moving David (God in one, Satan in another)?

 

3) Do you look at this variance as a mere misthought, translation error, or just a contradictory statement? Why?( If you dont mind)

 

4) Do/Did you ever believe that the Bible was a litteral written Word from God, or a Godly inspired guidebook, and general life situations(History guide as well)?

 

5) Examining all the points brought to me over the time that Ive been a member here, as well as the site that has all the contridictions, What would you personally consider of an attribute/characteristic by my still steadfast belief in the whole thing? Would you say that Im ignorant, church brain washed, or other etc.?

 

6) If the Ot was ssupposed to be followed as a ever lasting guide, Why did God through His servant Isaiah say (paraphrasing), The sacrifices of these animals, and the grain offerings were basically detestable to Him, and not acceptable anymore?

 

7) Why would Jesus have been so determined to show that the soul, heart, love, compassion, righteousness( internally) were so important? Why did Jesus say to clean the inside of the cup before the outside?

 

8) Why did God speak of The Holy One, Jesus in Genesis? He will bruise His heel, and He will crush his head?

 

9) Tell me your opinion of the key of David, and its meaning(from what you studied)?

[Amanda]

But do you think the earthquake happened for real, or was it an addition to the scriptures to make it sound bigger?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I don't know how to answer that now. It seems to me, that it was not to enhance the story but to relay a deeper meaning and message spiritually. I use to think that the Bible was in line with historical events, that what happened in the spiritual manifests in the physical... so I would of said at one time these quakes and thunder did happen. One of your casual posts to me, not debating, about Adam got me reevaluating that line of thinking...

[Mythra]

Back to Isaiah 7 and 8, both chapters, in full..............  Anyone, does anyone agree that BOTH of these are speaking about Assyria?  Am I the ONLY one who sees this?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Thankful: on the archives page of Ex-C, take a look at the article under "serious stuff". The article is called "Cornerstone arguments fundys can't successfully refute". Talks about this prophecy in great detail. I was gonna just quote it, but it's pretty lengthy. Really good article.

[Savedbyfaith]

Don't you think all that would have been noticed by someone else? Like...news worthy enough to be in every writing of the time?

 

[sBF] Apparently not. There is very little written, apart form the scriptures, that record the events of Calvary. I believe that God is in control and had he wanted it to be the headlines of the day and recorded in all the imortant books of the day he would have caused it to happen. But it was just another crucifixion performed by the Roman government. Jesus was considered no more worthy of note than the two thieves on each side of him.

 

But there's another side to this that may be worth considering. I may be wrong. In God's mind, what happened on the cross had to happen. In other words, it was God's plan from the foundation of the world that Jesus be crucified for the sins of the world. If the Roman government thought that was the reason, they probably wouldn't have killed him. Imagine the headlines: "SON OF GOD TO BE CRUCIFIED FOR THE SINS OF THE WORLD." That wouldn't fly. So the Roman's agreed to kill him because the Jews insisted that Jesus would was chllenging Caesar's authority. And we musn't have that. "We have no king but Caesar" (John 19:15). So the Jews (high priests, pharisees, teachers of the law, etc.) worked up the people, urging them to shout, "Crucify him, crucify him." While Jesus clearly taught that he must go to the cross, the Jews and Romans didn't understand it. As a matter of fact, the disciples didn't really grasp it either. And you know what else? Most of the world today doesn't get it. There is an intellectual understanding that it happened historically, but the spiritual message that only makes sense in the heart of man, escapes most people. The same applies to his resurrection. We celebrate both every year, but with so many people they seem to be nothing more than just a holiday, instead of a Holy Day. Unless the death and resurrection of Jesus penetrate the heart, they will be nothing more than a rote holiday.

 

"That if you will confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord, and BELIEVE IN YOUR HEART that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." (Rom. 10:9)

 

Hope this might be helpful.

 

God bless,

Savedbyfaith

[Abiyoyo]

Back to Isaiah 7 and 8, both chapters, in full..............  Anyone, does anyone agree that BOTH of these are speaking about Assyria?  Am I the ONLY one who sees this?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I replied and asked questions about your starting topic. If you answer your original topic replies, I will give my thoughts on Isaiah.

[Abiyoyo]

Can you please provide scripture references? I have no clue what you're referring to, but may recognize via scripture.  I know already about Kings and Chronicles, but it's the other that I need.

 

Rev 3:7-10

7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.

9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.(KJV)

 

 

Nothing new here, one of many contradictions.  If he didn't want sacrifices why will they be done (according to the bible) during the millenial reign according to Ezekiel, why the Sabbath, New Moons, Feast of Week, and animal sacrifices, etc.

Who says that that is about Jesus? 

 

 

Did they ever listen? More often not. Isaiah, being one also.

 

 

 

Matt 23:37-39

37 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!

38 "See! Your house is left to you desolate;

39 "for I say to you, you shall see Me no more till you say, 'Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!'"

(NKJ)

 

 

 

 

 

Like I said, Jesus doesn't fit the prophecy so it couldn't be him.  Besides, Jesus didn't return quickly like he said, so that makes him a liar and false prophet...(If he even existed)

 

 

 

 

Pretty clear to me.

 

 

Deut 18:19

19 'And it shall be that whoever will not hear My words, which He speaks in My name, I will require it of him.

(NKJ)

 

 

Isa 49:2

2 And He has made My mouth like a sharp sword; in the shadow of His hand He has hidden Me, and made Me a polished shaft; in His quiver He has hidden Me."

(NKJ)

 

Isa 53:1-12

1 Who has believed our report? And to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed?

2 For He shall grow up before Him as a tender plant, and as a root out of dry ground. He has no form or comeliness; and when we see Him, there is no beauty that we should desire Him.

3 He is despised and rejected by men, a Man of sorrows and acquainted with grief. And we hid, as it were, our faces from Him; he was despised, and we did not esteem Him.

4 Surely He has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows; yet we esteemed Him stricken, smitten by God, and afflicted.

5 But He was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities; the chastisement for our peace was upon Him, and by His stripes we are healed.

6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned, every one, to his own way; and the LORD has laid on Him the iniquity of us all.

7 He was oppressed and He was afflicted, yet He opened not His mouth; he was led as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before its shearers is silent, so He opened not His mouth.

8 He was taken from prison and from judgment, and who will declare His generation? For He was cut off from the land of the living; for the transgressions of My people He was stricken.

9 And they made His grave with the wicked-- but with the rich at His death, because He had done no violence, nor was any deceit in His mouth.

10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise Him; he has put Him to grief. When You make His soul an offering for sin, he shall see His seed, He shall prolong His days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in His hand.

11 He shall see the labor of His soul, and be satisfied. By His knowledge My righteous Servant shall justify many, for He shall bear their iniquities.

12 Therefore I will divide Him a portion with the great, and He shall divide the spoil with the strong, because He poured out His soul unto death, and He was numbered with the transgressors, and He bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

(NKJ)

 

 

 

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Mythra]

Tell me the prophecy that tells of the Messiah coming TWICE.

 

How convenient to concoct a story in which a Jesus conquers sin and death, and the NEXT time he comes he'll finally fulfill the prophecies of the Messiah and conquer the world.

 

Of course, this is the only way the story was going to fly. Because everybody and their dogs were kicking the shit out of the Jews between 100BCE and 100CE.

[Mythra]

I'm finished with their twisting, Mythra, I don't know about you, but I am.  Notice, how much unfulfilled PORTIONS of  "prophecy" gets  shifted to a second coming, when it was ALL, supposed to happen the first time around.  I don't think I'll respond anymore, these two things from Isaiah are enough to prove Christianity false.  Which nullifies the entire "New Testment".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Oh, I don't know. I kind of enjoy watching their contortions. Kind of like watching the rubber band lady do her thing at the carnival..

 

The way they duck and weave around the tough questions is kind of amusing. Reminds me of a presidential campaign.

 

But they'll never say, "that's a good question, doesn't make much sense to me, either." NEVER NEVER NEVER question GOD.

 

[dogmatically_challenged]

Don't you think all that would have been noticed by someone else?  Like...news worthy enough to be in every writing of the time?

 

[sBF] Apparently not. There is very little written, apart form the scriptures, that record the events of Calvary. I believe that God is in control and had he wanted it to be the headlines of the day and recorded in all the imortant books of the day he would have caused it to happen. But it was just another crucifixion performed by the Roman government. Jesus was considered no more worthy of note than the two thieves on each side of him.

 

But there's another side to this that may be worth considering. I may be wrong. In God's mind, what happened on the cross had to happen. In other words, it was God's plan from the foundation of the world that Jesus be crucified for the sins of the world. If the Roman government thought that was the reason, they probably wouldn't have killed him. Imagine the headlines: "SON OF GOD TO BE CRUCIFIED FOR THE SINS OF THE WORLD." That wouldn't fly. So the Roman's agreed to kill him because the Jews insisted that Jesus would was chllenging Caesar's authority. And we musn't have that. "We have no king but Caesar" (John 19:15). So the Jews (high priests, pharisees, teachers of the law, etc.) worked up the people, urging them to shout, "Crucify him, crucify him." While Jesus clearly taught that he must go to the cross, the Jews and Romans didn't understand it. As a matter of fact, the disciples didn't really grasp it either. And you know what else? Most of the world today doesn't get it. There is an intellectual understanding that it happened historically, but the spiritual message that only makes sense in the heart of man, escapes most people. The same applies to his resurrection. We celebrate both every year, but with so many people they seem to be nothing more than just a holiday, instead of a Holy Day. Unless the death and resurrection of Jesus penetrate the heart, they will be nothing more than a rote holiday.

 

"That if you will confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord, and BELIEVE IN YOUR HEART that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." (Rom. 10:9)

 

Hope this might be helpful.

 

God bless,

Savedbyfaith

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You should not quote the N.T. in order to speculate on why jesus was such a nobody in his day until after you have proven jesus was messiah using O.T. scripture first bucko. But you have already been refuted there. I guess thankful's and Myhtra's posts have bounced right off your thick skull. Unbelievable...

[dogmatically_challenged]

I thought where it said that this word has not been proven to mean anything other than a virgin was pertaining to the whole definition. If you research it back, you will see it evolved from the word boy, and boy from something that is hidden. If I misrepresented the definition, I didn't mean to do so. I apologize if that be the case... please see for yourself... I sited my resource.

http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Hebrew...959&version=kjv

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

maid or newly married ++++ There is no instance where it can be proved that this word designates a young woman who is not a virgin.

Yea thats true. It can mean virgin. Read the whole chapters for context silly. No were in the O.T. is there any reference to an immaculate conception. NO WERE. Also if your thinking of a double prophesy you can just forget it. You have zero reason to speculate that; other than ad hoc circular reasonings based soley on the mind virus that has been implanted in your grey matter by your culture.

 

linkee

 

Though the Hebrew word used here,

 

          äîìò, (‘almah) can sometimes refer to a woman who is a virgin (Gen 24:43), it does

 

          not carry this meaning inherently.  The word is simply the feminine form of the

 

          corresponding masculine noun, íìò (‘elem), “young man”; cf. 1 Sam.17:56; 20:22).

 

          The Aramaic and Ugaritic cognate terms are both used of women who are not virgins.

 

          The word seems to pertain to age, not sexual experience, and would normally be

 

            translated “young woman.”  The LXX translator(s) who later translated the Book of

 

            Isaiah into Greek sometime between the second and first century B.C., however,

 

            rendered the Hebrew term by the more specific Greek word parqenoz (parthenos),

 

            which does mean “virgin” in a technical sense.  This is the Greek term that also

 

            appears in the citation of Isa 7:14 in Matt 1:23.  Therefore, regardless of the meaning

 

            of the term in the OT context, in the NT Matthew’s usage of the Greek term

 

            parqenoz (parthenos) clearly indicates that from his perspective a virgin birth has

 

            taken place.

Why not check out the linkee I gave you to the Judiac forums? Get a feel for how jews feel? Whatsa mattah you? Afraid? You prove again and again you really don't believe everyone is a part of god. You are all oink oink for jesus.

[scotter]

I thought I read a dilemma almost about the core of Christianity.

 

Either:

If Judaism argument is right, the prophecies depicted by NT/Christian apologetics were not right

 

Or

If the prophecies were right: Jesus’s dying in obscurity was prophesied, was to fulfill OT prophecy of Messiah,….Paul worked hard and thrived Christianity…., so believing in Christianity is about believing in Paul’s revelation experience, because if not for Paul (Amanda), after Jesus fulfilled the ‘OT prophecies’ life cycle in CE 30-odd years, and that was it. End. Stop. Period.

 

But there is no base for this Paul thing. It is only a matter of personal choice believing Paul’s, back then recalling my Paul & Mohammed thread, it is a matter of putting your faith on. Thanks to Amanda’s ‘Jesus died in obscurity’ information that helped me in my conviction about Paul & Christianity.

 

Another off-shoot arrow is: Jesus died in obscurity, did Jesus resurrect in obscurity? Remember they are only three days apart.

 

This set of parts and pieces, that I collected here and there, are like bad puzzle pieces. In validating one, apologetics may risk invalidating another.

 

Jesus:

Died in obscurity (to fulfill the OT prophecy)

-> Did Jesus resurrect in obscurity?

-> Yes – the crack: it is contradictory and almost to oxymoron

-> No – the crack: where were the historical docs, or even something a less formal reporting? We are talking about resurrection of a person died by crucifixion, it did not make news; and days later Jesus’s ascension also did not make news…..

 

*Edited* to add a third option:

-> Jesus did not resurrect. (non-theologically)

 

Theologically, certain "new perspective" theologians explained that the disciples had a powerful personal experience and they related it to resurrection.

[Abiyoyo]

Here is a Messianic Prophecy, this was supposed to happen when the Messiah came, it didn't...Jesus was a false Messiah

Last time I saw, the Egyptian sea was not dried up either.  BTW... Since this prophecy was not fulfilled in Jesus's time, I have nothing left to say.  Either the ENTIRE prophecy is filled, or it was a false prophecy no matter how many "proof texts" you throw at me.  If you can't stand on the OT, you have nothing to stand on.

 

Isaiah 2 Also, did not happen and Christians miss another important issue concerning prophecy......... Messiah was not to die and comeback THOUSANDS OF YEARS Later...

On the contrary, Jesus said he came to bring war not peace...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Thankful,

 

I believe that we agree to disagree here. I will say this though. I am not a Biblical scholar, nor am I an educated veteran theologist regarding the Bible and its teachings.

 

Here's the whole truth though about Isaiah. I was lead to Isaiah, the verses in reference, by God. Why? I asked. I was in here(very early on) and heard everone talking about Jesus and how he wasnt real. Having had a recent experience with God, I prayed that God would show me through the Word.

 

He did. I remeber how excited I was when I saw the prophecy about Jesus, I told my wife( Thinking she would be excited too). She said, Yea, thats the prophecy of Jesus, everone knows that. I then realised that this was common.

 

Little things like this has helped me keep the faith. I communicate with God in a father type relationship( before anyone says that some of us didnt have good fathers, My parents divored when I was 13). I look at my experiences with my child, and my desire to be a good child and relate them to how my heavenly Father would be toward me.

 

God lead me to the scripture about how, Fathers with evil hearts will do good to their children, how much more will your heavenly Father give good things. God will also chastise us, as we discipline our own children. Hebrews was the scripture I was lead to about this.

 

The knowledge I have from the word is the grace bestowed on me from God to show it to me. But I ask then I look, and seek Gods word and answers through His word. I know, everone here has done that for years and years. I respect that, and I dont want to take anything from that.

 

Anyhow, I cant deny even after many extensive self evaluations of my self. My biggest question to myself was, Why would God show me that? I would have heard about it soon, I would assume.

 

Then, I realised something very simple. I asked Him too. In all that, nobody can tell me thats false, because the Lord was the one who lead me to it. That actually leads to some scripture that I just recalled. Can Satan overthrow Satan? Can he cast out His own?

 

If the Bible isnt real( for me), then Who? lead me to that scripture, and on top of all that, gave me understanding about it? Thats why I believe what I believe, and probualy still able to stand strong in my beliefs after much digestion of everyones websites, and information here. Informational, and testimonial though.