Guest Joanna Posted August 16, 2008 Share Posted August 16, 2008 Hello everyone -- I came across this forum while looking up something on Google, and after looking over many of the posts, I thought I'd say I completely empathize with those here who went looking for answers from apologists, and came away empty-handed. I, too, was an ardent reader of apologetic works, but now I know most, if not all, to be completely useless. One cannot "convince" anyone that the God of Christianity is real. Any attempt to do so will do more harm than good. So, as a believer, I feel led (as it were) to say, "I am sorry." I am sorry for all the professed Christians who felt they could persuade, cajole, humour, or else beat you over the head with their so-called logic. I am also sorry that I was once one of these people, eager to "save" people by the power of my intellect. The need to be right should never preclude the need to respect, listen, and to love. Sincerely, J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwc Posted August 16, 2008 Share Posted August 16, 2008 Well, I don't know what to say. I mean, an apology from a stranger is all I've ever asked for. (I told myself I wasn't going to cry... ) Altogether now "Cum by yah my Lord Cum by yah ..." mwc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dhampir Posted August 16, 2008 Share Posted August 16, 2008 Usually, I am somewhat prejudiced against christians who come here (and women named Joanna for some reason ) at first, but your post looks to be exactly what you're saying it is. Don't know why you thought it necessary to apologize, other than being led, but it's appreciated. You seem quite sincere, and you don't appear to be talking down to anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Joanna Posted August 16, 2008 Share Posted August 16, 2008 MWC -- I also apologize for coming across as somewhat mawkish. Dhampir -- It's interesting, how both religious labels and personal names can cause us to judge others. Just say the word "Scientology" and see how tolerant "tolerant" people really are... J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwc Posted August 16, 2008 Share Posted August 16, 2008 MWC -- I also apologize for coming across as somewhat mawkish. You came back? And rather quickly at that. Strange. That rarely happens. Okay. So why the apologies? What comes next? mwc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuroikaze Posted August 16, 2008 Share Posted August 16, 2008 Hello everyone -- I came across this forum while looking up something on Google, and after looking over many of the posts, I thought I'd say I completely empathize with those here who went looking for answers from apologists, and came away empty-handed. I, too, was an ardent reader of apologetic works, but now I know most, if not all, to be completely useless. One cannot "convince" anyone that the God of Christianity is real. Any attempt to do so will do more harm than good. So, as a believer, I feel led (as it were) to say, "I am sorry." I am sorry for all the professed Christians who felt they could persuade, cajole, humour, or else beat you over the head with their so-called logic. I am also sorry that I was once one of these people, eager to "save" people by the power of my intellect. The need to be right should never preclude the need to respect, listen, and to love. Sincerely, J Have you read Kierkegaard? Your view of Christianity seems similar to his. I studied apologetics much during my time as a Christian. Heck, I was an apologist. I was once convinced that it was real, but both the lack of evidence for it, as well my experiences with it led me to believe I was wrong. I agree that apologetic works are useless though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Joanna Posted August 16, 2008 Share Posted August 16, 2008 Hello again -- Why the apologies? As I stated before, it was because I felt moved to do so. It happens sometimes. What comes next? That's a good (if broad) question. I'm learning to not get ahead of myself, or to look ahead too much. Very difficult, that. J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Joanna Posted August 16, 2008 Share Posted August 16, 2008 Hello Kuroikaze -- I know of Kierkegaard, but have not read any of his works... J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurisaz Posted August 16, 2008 Share Posted August 16, 2008 Welcome Joanna, greetings from Germany Your apology is very much appreciated, though not necessary (those who have to apologize big time are those who make the claim). We are very skeptical of any christians dropping in here, even if they start polite (of course you understand the reason), but you indeed seem to be sincere. More power to you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwc Posted August 16, 2008 Share Posted August 16, 2008 "Moved?" Moved how? Coercion? Force? Magic? You said "I feel led (as it were) to say..." so I'm thinking you're thinking that "magic" is your motivation, your "mover," but I could be mistaken. mwc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Jeff Posted August 16, 2008 Share Posted August 16, 2008 Hi Joanna. Welcome to the forums! You're apology is appreciated, but not necessary. It's the apologists themselves who should be apologizing for trying to foist such a ridiculous belief system on others. I mean really... Starting in Genesis we have magic trees, magic fruit, and a talking snake... And two obviously mythical people... The main character of the religion - Jesus - Croaks in the Spook on a big giant stick because of the shit we did that pissed Him off (or his Father who is also somehow magically Him) off... And then He Magically Undeadens Himself and flies off to the Sky Kingdom. I mean, come on... rational people do not believe such nonsense. But all of that aside, you seem sincere, and I hope you enjoy your stay here. Glory! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted August 16, 2008 Share Posted August 16, 2008 Joanna, Welcome to the site. And I'm glad that you have come to understand that logic and argument don't really work to explain religious belief. That's a good start. Shows you understand things better than most Christians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShackledNoMore Posted August 16, 2008 Share Posted August 16, 2008 Joanna, I do not have issue with anything you have said. As has already been mentioned, there IS skepticism when a christian shows up and starts posting here (even politely and respectfully, as you have done). A handful of polite, respectful christians have earned a measure of respect and acceptance from many/most members here that the apologists do not enjoy. This entire site is a sort of Lion's Den for those who are apologists, and can be a rough place even for new christian members who are playing nice, especially before they earn a measure of trust. In any case, it was gratifying reading what you said in your post. Thank you. In fact, looking back to my xian days, I can echo your sentiments with respect to my own efforts at proselytising: I am sorry for all the professed Christians who felt they could persuade, cajole, humour, or else beat you over the head with their so-called logic. I am also sorry that I was once one of these people, eager to "save" people by the power of my intellect. The only difference is that I am no longer a christian and you still are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chefranden Posted August 16, 2008 Share Posted August 16, 2008 Hello Joanna As for me, I don't mind the apologists. Their worst fault is being boring. They come and regurgitate the books, and then don't have a clue where to go from there. Occasionally you get a Christian that can think, and who thinks a non-christian can think. Then it is fun. But these diamond Christians are few. And I think the old timers would have to admit that traffic from Christians has gone down a good bit in volume since the olden days. I think we have a scary reputation, or perhaps many Christians understand the concept of Ex-Christian and think, "I bet they have heard this before." Those don't bother to post. I'm a bit surprised that we don't get more Muslims or Mormons telling us that we just were in the wrong religion, and that is why we couldn't find God. Welcome if you are not just passing through, Chef Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dhampir Posted August 16, 2008 Share Posted August 16, 2008 You do know who this Joanna woman sounds like, don't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Joanna Posted August 16, 2008 Share Posted August 16, 2008 Thanks for the welcome, all. It's refreshing to be amongst people who are being truly honest with themselves, and are working out what they believe. Dhampir -- I'll admit I'm curious. Who do I sound like? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dhampir Posted August 16, 2008 Share Posted August 16, 2008 I'm going to give some people time to guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevOxley_501 Posted August 16, 2008 Share Posted August 16, 2008 Dhampir- Nenlow? Joanna--- Thanks for the apology, once again, like everyone else said, it isn't necessary, i owe a shitload of apologies more than you because as a christian apologist (that i once was) i was a bullheaded and falsely "loving" as anyone else. I hope your motives are not underlying and that you are being up front, stick with us and you can learn alot and perhaps us from you. Fair warning though, the debates i have seen here don't last long for the christian side...most of us have done it before...so be slow to do so. Once again thanks for your sincerity if it is so. And like i said stick around, learn and give learning....this is a good place to start questioning God and searching for reality and truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dhampir Posted August 16, 2008 Share Posted August 16, 2008 Actually, Rev, you haven't been here long enough to remember it. Loren should know though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pitchu Posted August 16, 2008 Share Posted August 16, 2008 Actually, Rev, you haven't been here long enough to remember it. Loren should know though I'm sure you mean that warm and invested-in-us copy-editing dame who, some four years back, arrived on our scene and took about a year to finally step into the light. I thought of her, too, Dhampir -- the writing style is similar. Welcome, Joanna. Hang around for a year and let's see if history repeats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted August 16, 2008 Share Posted August 16, 2008 Ah. Okay. I think I know who you're talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emme Posted August 16, 2008 Share Posted August 16, 2008 Im intrigued. Who is this person you speak of and hat did he/she do? don't hold out on me just 'cause I'm a newbie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurisaz Posted August 17, 2008 Share Posted August 17, 2008 Actually, Rev, you haven't been here long enough to remember it. Loren should know though I'm sure you mean that warm and invested-in-us copy-editing dame who, some four years back, arrived on our scene and took about a year to finally step into the light. I thought of her, too, Dhampir -- the writing style is similar. Now that others have said it first, I can announce that I have a similar impression... ...and to Joanna, the connection we make is one that honors you... whether you will move into the same direction as that other person or not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alice Posted August 17, 2008 Share Posted August 17, 2008 Are we talking about someone who would enhance her text with use of ~ where Joanna is placing -- ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnceConvinced Posted August 17, 2008 Share Posted August 17, 2008 Hi Joanna. Welcome. Hope you hang around. Many of us here are former apologists ourselves. Fortunately though, we've been enlightened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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