MathGeek Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Okay, I concede the point to some degree. At the same time, where do I have to do the same thing? And what it stop them and other apologists of accusing me of the same thing? I came to enlightenment after I had a direct revelation about the Problem of Evil. My impetus for falling away was purely emotional, does that count for anything? I'm sorry. I don't follow you . So what if they accuse of the same thing. You know how you came to know what you know... I presume you are still constantly questioning your understanding of reality... isn't that part of being a skeptic? I have no idea why I wrote that. I guess my thinking was clouded since my emotions were high when I wrote that. I sometimes feel like the Christian version of an atheist. That means atheism is a synonym for just being backslidden believer. Direct revelation? How then was that purely emotional? I lost my child before he was brought to term. I figured if God could allow miscarriage for no reason, isn't that the ultimate example that underlies the problem of suffering? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Emerwen Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 we are not wrong...are you calling us liars? Settle down, and don't get so defensive... I don't think I ever called anyone here a liar... feeling guilty? 1. You do not get to tell me to settle down. You're in the Lions Den I can say pretty much what I want within reason. 2. Yes you did call people liars, by saying that these type of people don't believe this, by saying we must be mistaken...Until you have lived here and talked to these people and experienced what we have experienced you have no right say we don't know what we're talking about 3. What could I possibly have to feel guilty about? This portion of your response seems to be a pointless lashing out because I have raised a point you do not know how to deal with. Hmm could that be it? You can call me a bitch or anything you want really. I'm not guilty about anything. Are you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 For them? Of course it is. Everyone wants to know the truth.. everyone wants to learn. Some people just need to have that curiosity and thirst rekindled. I certainly have no trouble at all getting fundamentalists to dialogue about these issues... Maybe it is the way you confront them or accuse them or act like they're monsters. They are not monsters. they just haven't been turned around to see the fire behind the puppets. The only fundamentalists I have in my life are my parents. Would I confront them? Absolutely not. They are not monsters, did I say that? The answers they have and trust are from the Bible. They don't feel they need to know anything else. I have known them for 50 years, and believe it or not, they don't have intellectual curiosity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Munk Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 The only fundamentalists I have in my life are my parents. Would I confront them? Absolutely not. They are not monsters, did I say that? The answers they have and trust are from the Bible. They don't feel they need to know anything else. I have known them for 50 years, and believe it or not, they don't have intellectual curiosity. Agreed. While my father at least attempts to look into things (with a heavy christian bias mind you), my mother is more than happy to ride the wave. For example, I asked her why it had to be the christian god, and the reply I received was an incredulous and wholly honest, "What other gods are there?" I proceeded to list off the many gods worshiped in the past and the ones still worshiped today and was met with a blank, vacant stare. I don't think she's a monster, she doesn't treat me cruelly and I know she loves me and is a great person, she just honestly has no desire to deviate from how she's always been. She's determined it is right, and you cannot convince her otherwise. However, I have many fundamentalists in my life, not just my parents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kcdad Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 we are not wrong...are you calling us liars? Settle down, and don't get so defensive... I don't think I ever called anyone here a liar... feeling guilty? 1. You do not get to tell me to settle down. You're in the Lions Den I can say pretty much what I want within reason. 2. Yes you did call people liars, by saying that these type of people don't believe this, by saying we must be mistaken...Until you have lived here and talked to these people and experienced what we have experienced you have no right say we don't know what we're talking about 3. What could I possibly have to feel guilty about? This portion of your response seems to be a pointless lashing out because I have raised a point you do not know how to deal with. Hmm could that be it? You can call me a bitch or anything you want really. I'm not guilty about anything. Are you? Since you don't even know the meaning of liar... why continue this? It is because you are over reacting to a simple discussion... you want to find the words prevaricate, lie, obfuscate or any other word I used to indicate I thought someone was intentionally misrepresenting what they knew as truth? This is the lions den, I can tell you settle down, sit up or jump through a hoop if I want... as long as it is within reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kcdad Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 The only fundamentalists I have in my life are my parents. Would I confront them? Absolutely not. They are not monsters, did I say that? The answers they have and trust are from the Bible. They don't feel they need to know anything else. I have known them for 50 years, and believe it or not, they don't have intellectual curiosity. Agreed. While my father at least attempts to look into things (with a heavy christian bias mind you), my mother is more than happy to ride the wave. For example, I asked her why it had to be the christian god, and the reply I received was an incredulous and wholly honest, "What other gods are there?" I proceeded to list off the many gods worshiped in the past and the ones still worshiped today and was met with a blank, vacant stare. I don't think she's a monster, she doesn't treat me cruelly and I know she loves me and is a great person, she just honestly has no desire to deviate from how she's always been. She's determined it is right, and you cannot convince her otherwise. However, I have many fundamentalists in my life, not just my parents. Maybe you haven't figured out the RIGHT question to ask... not "why the christian god and not some other"... but why do Christians call God "GOD" and not Yhwh, Ra, Allah or some other name like other people do. You have to understand to them there is only one God. God is Allah is Yhwh is whoever... WHen you asked that question it probably didn't compute with their preconceptions. I bet they understand that some other religions worship the same God, (Catholics, Baptists, Jews, etc) though they do it differently. It is not a big stretch for them to understand that non-judeo-christian religions do too. baby steps... that is what learning is all about... until that light bulb moment when it falls into place... then Eureka! (You also have to remember that your mother probably learned at a very young age that women are not supposed to think... that is the man's job.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Emerwen Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Since you don't even know the meaning of liar... why continue this? It is because you are over reacting to a simple discussion... you want to find the words prevaricate, lie, obfuscate or any other word I used to indicate I thought someone was intentionally misrepresenting what they knew as truth? This is the lions den, I can tell you settle down, sit up or jump through a hoop if I want... as long as it is within reason. Excuse me but who the hell do you think you are to tell me I am incapable of interpreting common english vocabulary? When you tell someone you do not believe them you are implying that they are lying. So you see, by stating repeatedly that you do not believe that these people could not possibly believe what we are telling you they believe, you are, in fact, implying that we are all lying. Yes it is the lions den and you can try and tell me what to do until you're blue in the face but you really have no chance of me doing what you want just because you say so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kcdad Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Excuse me but who the hell do you think you are to tell me I am incapable of interpreting common english vocabulary? When you tell someone you do not believe them you are implying that they are lying. So you see, by stating repeatedly that you do not believe that these people could not possibly believe what we are telling you they believe, you are, in fact, implying that we are all lying. Yes it is the lions den and you can try and tell me what to do until you're blue in the face but you really have no chance of me doing what you want just because you say so. Let's take a look at your ability to interpret common English vocabulary... here is what I wrote: "I do think you are wrong about "these people"... it does have to make sense... they just don't understand what "makes sense" means." To which you replied: "When you tell someone you do not believe them you are implying that they are lying." Prior to that you wrote something to the effect that because I said I thought someone were wrong, I was calling them a liar. In neither case is the intentional misrepresentation of facts suggested. Do you understand the difference between an implication and inference? Let's see if I can get you do what I want just because I say so... GET REALLY angry and call me names. (Do I want you to call me names or am I using reverse Psychology?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The-Captain Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 What is this thread even about anymore? I know this is the Lion's Den and threads can meander, but for a pinned topic there should be some relevance to the initial topic. We have 30 pages now. If we have something else to talk about we could always start a new thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shantonu Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 What is this thread even about anymore? I know this is the Lion's Den and threads can meander, but for a pinned topic there should be some relevance to the initial topic. We have 30 pages now. If we have something else to talk about we could always start a new thread. Yep. This topic needs to be retired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 I agree. I'm closing it right now, because it's becoming to big. If anyone wants to continue on the current issues and questions, they can start a new thread. So sayeth Hans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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