today Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 the only evidence i can offer is my body when i die and you can do all the testing on it you want to annd you will find human dna and that will prove i am not there the spirit is gone, it is asleep till Jesus calls So finding human DNA in your dead body will prove you are not there ... O ... K ... In any case, there would need to be proof that there is even a spirit while you are alive before we could test for its absence after your death. And even if someone where to be able to prove that there is a spirit that would not validate the Bible in any way, shape or form. The nature of the spirit would still have to be determined, etc. So your death would provide no evidence ... no proof of anything other than you are dead. so you believe you have no spirit, very intresting, i have talked with some people face to face that believe that when your body dies thats it, over, finished, done, man that makes this life sound like a huge waste, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdp Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 i have talked with some people face to face that believe that when your body dies thats it, over, finished, done, man that makes this life sound like a huge waste, well, essentially - IT IS. it's pointless at best. doesn't make it bad though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattylt Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 so you believe you have no spirit, very intresting, i have talked with some people face to face that believe that when your body dies thats it, over, finished, done, man that makes this life sound like a huge waste No, it makes THIS life very precious. Wasting this life for a non-existent next life is the waste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdp Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 he also warned me that he had already been on alot of sites like this and there is very little truth on most of them your friend is as much of a bullshitter as you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willybilly30 Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 Damn what a typo lol I meant to say Bible don't know why I typed ninle. Maybe I was doing crack damn what the fuck they put in pipe tabbaco these days. Here's the evidence the only evidence...a ninle written by a bunch of dead guys that you don't even know. No one knew them they might of been all doing crack when they wrote all that shit, But people believe it anyway lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwc Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 Come, let us reason together. If you have forensic evidence in support for the resurrection, nay, for any evidence for the actual life of Jesus, present it here. I am more interested with evidence of resurrection. Happy Halloween...errr...Easter...or whatever....just bring it. Well, I'm pretty sure that if you fund the trip I can locate a good place to crucify a guy outside the city wall, an empty cave, an empty meeting room where it would be possible for a magical non-ghost ghost to appear, the Mount of Olives and the Sea of Galilee. I believe these are all the ingredients needed for this whole resurrection thing, right? Oh, and the "heaven." So the sky and a suitable cloud to fly up into as per the story. The key items that I will provide you will be the empty cave and the sky with the cloud. This should prove, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that there is no "jesus" in said cave (showing he is NOT dead in that cave) and the sky w/cloud showing he ascended into the "heaven" (sky w/cloud). I can't see how, with these two items, you could draw any other conclusions. Even "Theophilus" from G.Luke didn't have it so good (and I bet he was pretty pleased with that "report" he got). mwc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeker630 Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 I thought the bones were supposed to have belonged to James. They were James's bones? Oh, then I remembered it wrong. Would've been cool though. Well it's not a total loss. Remember that James was supposed to be the brother of Jesus. That being the case, you could still do the DNA thing. But then of course we'd be back at square one--------there would need to be proof that the bones did in fact belong to the James in the New Testament, and that he was the brother of Jesus, and that either one of them ever existed in the first place. And even then, there is still no way to know who's DNA it is without some other positive corroboration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chefranden Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 so you believe you have no spirit, very intresting, i have talked with some people face to face that believe that when your body dies thats it, over, finished, done, man that makes this life sound like a huge waste, Why? What is there about foreverness that makes anything more worthwhile? This is just a regurgitated assumption. You haven't really thought about it -- have you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vixentrox Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 the only evidence i can offer is my body when i die and you can do all the testing on it you want to annd you will find human dna and that will prove i am not there the spirit is gone, it is asleep till Jesus calls So finding human DNA in your dead body will prove you are not there ... O ... K ... In any case, there would need to be proof that there is even a spirit while you are alive before we could test for its absence after your death. And even if someone where to be able to prove that there is a spirit that would not validate the Bible in any way, shape or form. The nature of the spirit would still have to be determined, etc. So your death would provide no evidence ... no proof of anything other than you are dead. so you believe you have no spirit, very intresting, i have talked with some people face to face that believe that when your body dies thats it, over, finished, done, man that makes this life sound like a huge waste, And an eternity kissing a barbaric god's ass isn't? I'd rather live one life for me than a 1000 lifetimes for that murdering bastard depicted in the bible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shion Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 the only evidence i can offer is my body when i die and you can do all the testing on it you want to annd you will find human dna and that will prove i am not there the spirit is gone, it is asleep till Jesus calls So finding human DNA in your dead body will prove you are not there ... O ... K ... In any case, there would need to be proof that there is even a spirit while you are alive before we could test for its absence after your death. And even if someone where to be able to prove that there is a spirit that would not validate the Bible in any way, shape or form. The nature of the spirit would still have to be determined, etc. So your death would provide no evidence ... no proof of anything other than you are dead. so you believe you have no spirit, very intresting, i have talked with some people face to face that believe that when your body dies thats it, over, finished, done, man that makes this life sound like a huge waste, Having one life doesn't mean it is without great meaning. I think if you have a get out of permanent death free card, you're death, and you're life become disposable items, because it looses its preciousness. It is the fragility of life, which makes it worth living for, protecting and cherishing, not the adoration of a narcissistic and sadistic being that has yet to be proven to exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
today Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 the only evidence i can offer is my body when i die and you can do all the testing on it you want to annd you will find human dna and that will prove i am not there the spirit is gone, it is asleep till Jesus calls So finding human DNA in your dead body will prove you are not there ... O ... K ... In any case, there would need to be proof that there is even a spirit while you are alive before we could test for its absence after your death. And even if someone where to be able to prove that there is a spirit that would not validate the Bible in any way, shape or form. The nature of the spirit would still have to be determined, etc. So your death would provide no evidence ... no proof of anything other than you are dead. so you believe you have no spirit, very intresting, i have talked with some people face to face that believe that when your body dies thats it, over, finished, done, man that makes this life sound like a huge waste, Having one life doesn't mean it is without great meaning. I think if you have a get out of permanent death free card, you're death, and you're life become disposable items, because it looses its preciousness. It is the fragility of life, which makes it worth living for, protecting and cherishing, not the adoration of a narcissistic and sadistic being that has yet to be proven to exist. that is so very true, and there is permenant death, this body will die(this human experience), life is not disposable it is precious, fragil, to be cherished, and i know that men have written the bible, and the teaching of who God is wrong in many ways and yes i believed when i was younger that if i didn't accept jesus that i was going to hell and people would be biting on me my flesh would be burning forever, my eyes would melt out of my head the and then the devil would be laughing at me and then it would just repeat over and over again forever, i can't undo the teachings that bring many to that very same conclusion. to say god exist just because i believe in him will not work, even when i say that i am human and alive will not work. the only thing that will work is that you believe and thats ok with me if you don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 so you believe you have no spirit, very intresting, i have talked with some people face to face that believe that when your body dies thats it, over, finished, done, man that makes this life sound like a huge waste, I'd say it's the opposite. If you believe that this life is crap, and the real life starts in Heaven, then this life is just wasted time. And it would be better for you to die and go to Heaven, since Heaven is the good place, and this world is the bad place. But, if you believe this is the only life you have, then this only life is more precious and it makes it much more important to make the best out of it and put your best effort to make it good. So you see, to believe that to die is the end of the road, can be beneficial to your life, and not detrimental. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. S. Martin Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 Somebody asking for hard evidence of Jesus' resurrection? Here you go: There's about ten YouTubes. William Lane Craig makes a faultless case, refuted solidly by Bart D. Ehrman. The transcript is also online on this page http://commonsenseatheism.com/?p=392, scroll down to Craig vs. Ehrman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
today Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 so you believe you have no spirit, very intresting, i have talked with some people face to face that believe that when your body dies thats it, over, finished, done, man that makes this life sound like a huge waste, I'd say it's the opposite. If you believe that this life is crap, and the real life starts in Heaven, then this life is just wasted time. And it would be better for you to die and go to Heaven, since Heaven is the good place, and this world is the bad place. But, if you believe this is the only life you have, then this only life is more precious and it makes it much more important to make the best out of it and put your best effort to make it good. So you see, to believe that to die is the end of the road, can be beneficial to your life, and not detrimental. Hansolo i do under stand the opposite thing, i don't believe life is crap and i hope you don't, real life started long before us in the heavens, and then it came down to earth as real life, and it is not wasted time, and yeah i hear a lot of christains say that they are ready to go to heaven, i have to say "really", and if you think about it if the world is so bad why is God going to bring Heaven down to earth, we are given only one life and when the human experience ends life still goes on, it is important to do the best you can now to make it good, and i can see where that if, "death of the body was the end", would be beneficial to the quality of life some would live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 5 ton of splinters from the cross. Enough to re-create thousands of crosses. It's a miracle! Just like the loaves and fishes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 i do under stand the opposite thing, i don't believe life is crap and i hope you don't, real life started long before us in the heavens, and then it came down to earth as real life, and it is not wasted time, and yeah i hear a lot of christains say that they are ready to go to heaven, i have to say "really", and if you think about it if the world is so bad why is God going to bring Heaven down to earth, we are given only one life and when the human experience ends life still goes on, it is important to do the best you can now to make it good, and i can see where that if, "death of the body was the end", would be beneficial to the quality of life some would live. I don't think you get it at all. You said: so you believe you have no spirit, very intresting, i have talked with some people face to face that believe that when your body dies thats it, over, finished, done, man that makes this life sound like a huge waste, And I think you are wrong. And my my response was saying that: a waste of life is when you believe Heaven is better than the life you have now (which is a person like the religious), while a person like me (who only have this life to live) do not believe this life is a waste because it is the only life I got! Look, this is my post, with explanations: I'd say it's the opposite. If you believe that this life is crap, and the real life starts in Heaven, then this life is just wasted time. And it would be better for you to die and go to Heaven, since Heaven is the good place, and this world is the bad place. That's a person like the religious person who believes in heaven. A person who believe in Heaven, is a person who, I can only assume, think Heaven to be better than this Earthly life, right? Or do you think the religious who believe in Heaven, believe Heaven to be worse than Earth? If you do believe Heaven is better, that means you would have to believe Earth is less good. In other words, this life is not as good as Heaven. But, if you believe this is the only life you have, then this only life is more precious and it makes it much more important to make the best out of it and put your best effort to make it good. This is a person like me. A person who only got one life, one life on Earth. So what does that mean? It means the life on Earth, to me, is very, very precious. It is not crap at all for me! It's the best I can get. And I have to make it as better if I can. So the difference is that I believe this is the only life I have, and I will make it the best I can, while the religious--who believe Heaven is better--can never fully appreciate the Earthly life to its fullest, like I can. Ergo, your initial statement is completely, utterly, and unequivocally untrue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
today Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 i do under stand the opposite thing, i don't believe life is crap and i hope you don't, real life started long before us in the heavens, and then it came down to earth as real life, and it is not wasted time, and yeah i hear a lot of christains say that they are ready to go to heaven, i have to say "really", and if you think about it if the world is so bad why is God going to bring Heaven down to earth, we are given only one life and when the human experience ends life still goes on, it is important to do the best you can now to make it good, and i can see where that if, "death of the body was the end", would be beneficial to the quality of life some would live. I don't think you get it at all. You said: so you believe you have no spirit, very intresting, i have talked with some people face to face that believe that when your body dies thats it, over, finished, done, man that makes this life sound like a huge waste, And I think you are wrong. And my my response was saying that: a waste of life is when you believe Heaven is better than the life you have now (which is a person like the religious), while a person like me (who only have this life to live) do not believe this life is a waste because it is the only life I got! Look, this is my post, with explanations: I'd say it's the opposite. If you believe that this life is crap, and the real life starts in Heaven, then this life is just wasted time. And it would be better for you to die and go to Heaven, since Heaven is the good place, and this world is the bad place. That's a person like the religious person who believes in heaven. A person who believe in Heaven, is a person who, I can only assume, think Heaven to be better than this Earthly life, right? Or do you think the religious who believe in Heaven, believe Heaven to be worse than Earth? If you do believe Heaven is better, that means you would have to believe Earth is less good. In other words, this life is not as good as Heaven. But, if you believe this is the only life you have, then this only life is more precious and it makes it much more important to make the best out of it and put your best effort to make it good. This is a person like me. A person who only got one life, one life on Earth. So what does that mean? It means the life on Earth, to me, is very, very precious. It is not crap at all for me! It's the best I can get. And I have to make it as better if I can. So the difference is that I believe this is the only life I have, and I will make it the best I can, while the religious--who believe Heaven is better--can never fully appreciate the Earthly life to its fullest, like I can. Ergo, your initial statement is completely, utterly, and unequivocally untrue. i see i do get it and thanks and sorry about assuming something Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 i see i do get it and thanks and sorry about assuming something Apology accepted. You see, my experience is that when I lost my faith, it was at first a struggle to figure out exactly what to do with life, but now I can honestly say I feel I live a better and more enjoyable life than before. I feel I take more responsibility for my actions, I search for better answers for every question, and I truly try my best to do what is right in a larger scale. As Christian, I was trying to do what God wanted, but I was never sure exactly what God really wanted, so it was a lot of confusion, and no real direction at all. My life was a waste, until I grew up and stopped living a fantasy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
today Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 i see i do get it and thanks and sorry about assuming something Apology accepted. You see, my experience is that when I lost my faith, it was at first a struggle to figure out exactly what to do with life, but now I can honestly say I feel I live a better and more enjoyable life than before. I feel I take more responsibility for my actions, I search for better answers for every question, and I truly try my best to do what is right in a larger scale. As Christian, I was trying to do what God wanted, but I was never sure exactly what God really wanted, so it was a lot of confusion, and no real direction at all. My life was a waste, until I grew up and stopped living a fantasy. i hear what you are saying, when i had my falling away, my whole life changed at first i was stuck with no belief at all, as i started looking at differant groups of people, i was to find that many where just like christains, the humanity church has more going for humans than anyone, (habitats for humanity and thousands of out reach programs) and the christains cut the head off anyone that does not aggree to the way they believe, a lot of them say they will accept you the way you are, but they are lying, if you just bring one of the things i have brought up on this forum the way i believe then your done. i have found more fellowship with non-christains, ex-christains, atheists, agnostics, than with any where else, i even found this site last month called bible-truths.com, that said they were not christains and still believed and i did believe in a lot of the things they believed in but the minute that i started trying out some of the things i believe i was told to go back and study the guys teaching that started the site that they didn't need that kind of imput. anyway its good to hear that i am not the only one that has had a falling that turned back to belief even if our beliefs are differant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ariella Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 A large part of why I left Christianity 7 years ago (almost today, even!) was that the things Christianity taught were either historically wrong, scripturally wrong, or just plain stupid. Human sacrifice is not a part of normative Judaism, and if Christianity can't be derived from Judaism, it's a completely bogus religion, based solely on its claim to be somehow "prophecized". There has to be a fairly simple chain of theology from Judaism all the way to modern Christianity, and that would have to include the Golgatha business of a sacrificial human being nailed up on some pieces of wood and left to die, only to magically come back to life. So, let's examine the narrative. The story starts on a Thursday afternoon when the Jewish leadership finally decided to arrest this Jesus character and have him put to death. The first problem has to do with the putting to death of a Jew, something that was so incredibly infrequent (the protestations of people who want to claim that G-d is some bloodthirsty deity who likes all sorts of people to be killed for such minor infractions as planting two different veggies in the same garden ...) that any Sanhedrin that executed a person was considered to be a "Bloody Sanhedrin". The second problem is that this wasn't just any Thursday, it was the day prior to Passover, one of the religious holidays during which "work" is prohibited. Since "executing people" is a form of work, the religious establishment most certainly wasn't the ones doing the executing. They were at home getting ready for a nice meal. The third problem is that the testimony of an accused is invalid in Judaism. A person accused of a crime is not considered to be trustworthy to confess their crime (since they are, by the very nature of being accused of a crime, considered an invalid witness), nor are they trustworthy to proclaim their innocence (since many people would do that to avoid punishment). Someone must be convicted by the testimony of witnesses and the account of the "Trial before the Sanhedrin" is inconsistent with Jewish law. The fourth problem is that executions were not carried out immediately. The trial supposedly happened late Thursday night / early Friday morning, and by noon time Friday Jesus was being hauled off for execution. Completely impossible, according to the religious laws. Never happened that way for any of the accounts of execution recorded in the Talmud. The fifth problem is that the form of execution is inconsistent with Jewish law. The correct punishment for blasphemy was stoning, and Jesus was not stoned. The form of execution that was used was crucifixion, and that was a form of execution practiced by the Romans for political enemies. An examination of Jesus' followers, outside of the Christian narrative, reveals that he had at least 4 "rebels" within his group of disciples. Three were "Zealots" -- Jews who were militantly opposed to Roman occupation -- and one was a mercenary (Judas the Sicarii). This is more consistent with the narrative -- Pilate had Jesus arrested because he lead a small group of rebels against Roman authority. The sixth problem is that neither crucifixion nor stoning was the proper method for killing any form of sacrifice. If Jesus was a human sacrifice, he would have had to be slaughtered in the Temple by having the priest place his hand on Jesus head, then slitting his throat. This didn't happen, therefore there is no theological support for Jesus being a sacrifice. The seventh problem is that sacrificial animals, and I've now proven that Jesus wasn't some kind of (utterly forbidden) human sacrifice, were not permitted if they were blemished. Since the narrative includes the story of how Pilate ordered Jesus to be severely beaten, Jesus was not without blemish and would have been forbidden as any kind of sacrifice, even if human sacrifices were permitted. The eighth problem is that a "Messiah" is simply someone or something that has been annointed with a particular oil mixture that is described in the Torah, using a particular formula or ritual. There is no record of this ever happening, interesting stories of his cousin John giving him a good dunking in the Jordan not withstanding. No annointing with oil by the priests, no messiah. The ninth problem is that if (and he wasn't) Jesus was the "Messiah", he'd be expected to do certain things, such as be the actual King of Judea. The prophecies in Isaiah describe what must be done -- end war, hunger, poverty, pagan beliefs -- and Jesus never did those things. So Jesus fails "Messiah 101" on two accounts. The tenth problem is that the Prophecy of Jonah -- three days and three nights -- was not satisfied. We know that Jesus was executed by the Romans in the afternoon of Friday during Passover week. Within a few short hours, he was supposedly dead (crucifixion was a several day death sentence so that it served to warn the population not to oppose Rome -- so Jesus' crucifixion fails on that account as well). His supposedly dead body was removed from the cross before sundown Friday and taken away to a stone tomb. Several witnesses testify in the gospels that the body was not present in the tomb prior to sunrise Sunday morning. That gives us Friday night, Saturday day, part of Saturday night. Jewish days start at sundown and there is no way to make "three nights and three days" out of that. Based solely on Jewish law and history, as well as the accounts in the gospels themselves, it just never happened. And if it did, it certainly doesn't mean anything other than the Romans killed yet another Jew for opposing Roman rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathlene Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 i see i do get it and thanks and sorry about assuming something Apology accepted. You see, my experience is that when I lost my faith, it was at first a struggle to figure out exactly what to do with life, but now I can honestly say I feel I live a better and more enjoyable life than before. I feel I take more responsibility for my actions, I search for better answers for every question, and I truly try my best to do what is right in a larger scale. As Christian, I was trying to do what God wanted, but I was never sure exactly what God really wanted, so it was a lot of confusion, and no real direction at all. My life was a waste, until I grew up and stopped living a fantasy. Han...have you been sharing my brain or something? I could of written the above ver batim. Wow. You summed up exactly what I felt in all its entirety. So today, how do you explain two people living two continents away with the same christian experience...and lots of others on here with the same? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 Han...have you been sharing my brain or something? I could of written the above ver batim. Wow. You summed up exactly what I felt in all its entirety. ... In fact, I know there are several (perhaps plenty) members here who feel the exact same way. I feel even tempted to say: I was lost, but now I'm saved, because I lost my faith in Jesus Christ. When I was Christian, I neglected school, because I thought Jesus was coming back tomorrow, so why bother with grades, career, or taking sensible responsibility for my future. I didn't care if I screwed up at work, for the same reasons. If I didn't have money I was "believing" that Jesus would save me from my stupid financial mistakes. One lesson was that Jesus doesn't save anyone for anything or for any reason. Not in this world at least. So after losing my faith, the simple fact was that this life suddenly became so much more important. I'm back in school, and doing great. I'm taking responsibility for my life, my work, my wife, my family, the whole thing. And I'm starting to feel a heavy responsibility towards the planet and humanity and the future, success, and survival of our species. So what is better? To do right because we feel it to be right, and can argue and rationalize to why something is right to do, or is it better to do what is maybe right, only because there's a carrot called Heaven dangling in front of our face, or a threat of eternal punishment if we do not? Non-theism and non-religious attitude is the only real honest position, and the only position which can make humanity progress and succeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Looking4Answers Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 Ariella, You quote all the problems with the trial and execution of Jesus on the basis of Jewish law, but Israel was under Roman rule and, as a result, had to obey Roman law in most things. The Romans did allow the Sanhedrin a form of rule, but it was prohibited for them to rule on death or to take a life legally. So they had to bring the accused before the local Roman leader for a death sentence to be pronounced and the method of death was according to Roman rules, not Jewish law. As a result, most of the problems you bring up present no real problem. I agree that the Gospel stories are made up (to some major extent), but the problems you raise may have been problems for Jewish law, but the Jews did not have full authority at that time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
today Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 i see i do get it and thanks and sorry about assuming something Apology accepted. You see, my experience is that when I lost my faith, it was at first a struggle to figure out exactly what to do with life, but now I can honestly say I feel I live a better and more enjoyable life than before. I feel I take more responsibility for my actions, I search for better answers for every question, and I truly try my best to do what is right in a larger scale. As Christian, I was trying to do what God wanted, but I was never sure exactly what God really wanted, so it was a lot of confusion, and no real direction at all. My life was a waste, until I grew up and stopped living a fantasy. Han...have you been sharing my brain or something? I could of written the above ver batim. Wow. You summed up exactly what I felt in all its entirety. So today, how do you explain two people living two continents away with the same christian experience...and lots of others on here with the same? Kathlene I believe that christiainity has been shoved done our throats for over 2000 years, and the way it has been preached is that, no one can meet Gods Standards, and only a chosen few will end up in heaven. The truth is there are many more with the exact same ver batim, as mine was, i just took another look for myself at what the bible says and did you know that i have heard all my life that no one can walk sinless, if that is true what about job, God himself said that job, Sined not, or the blind man that was brought before Jesus and they asked Jesus, who sined, him or his parents, and Jesus said neither, but for the power of God to Be Seen, so these 2 here where sinless and Both God and Jesus said it, and there are more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwc Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 The first problem has to do with the putting to death of a Jew, something that was so incredibly infrequent (the protestations of people who want to claim that G-d is some bloodthirsty deity who likes all sorts of people to be killed for such minor infractions as planting two different veggies in the same garden ...) that any Sanhedrin that executed a person was considered to be a "Bloody Sanhedrin". It doesn't quite say that: The Sanhedrin who executes a person once in seven years, is considered pernicious. R. Eliezar b. Azariach said: Even one who does so once in seventy years is considered such. Both R. Tarphon and R. Aqiba said: If we were among the Sanhedrin, a death sentence would never occur. To which R. Simeon b. Gamaliel said: Such scholars would only increase bloodshed in Israel. I imagine R. Aqiba preferred to leave the killing up to the Messiah. After all he did believe Bar Kochba was it. mwc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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