Jesus In, Jesus Out

[Guest end3]

Who could make up a story like this and be so consistent? Let's look at this story through END3's rose colored lenses.

 

The virgin birth: Suppose you have the realm of Heaven (no sin), and the realm of Earth (sin).....for Jesus to enter this realm to save man, I am assuming that his entry would not be like that of the "fallen" man, that is, the union between a woman and a "fallen" man (no pun intended), again, his birth by a defiled means. So I am saying, along with a few crackpots, that the union between Mary and the HS was from the Heaven side of the two realms.

And when Jesus was born, he broke the curtain (hymen), to allow access to God symbolically through a woman (the church).

 

Now, it seems to reason that his death would not be that of a conventional man. And there in we find the resurrection.

 

Edited for sperring.

[Ouroboros]

You mean like the story in the Mahabharata epic? Where Queen Kunti was impregnated by the god Surya (the god of the Sun), before she got married to King Pandu, and she begot Karna. The epic was written somewhere between 8th century BCE and 4th century CE. In other words, starting before the time of Jesus birth, and before the Gospels were written, and extending to the same time as the Gospels, and after.

 

She was terrified she was pregnant, and a virgin, and was going to get married, but the god of the Sun made sure she even stayed a virgin after the birth. Which Catholics call the immaculate conception. They too believe Mary kept her virginity after the birth.

 

Bheel Mahabharata: Kunti and the Birth of the Sun God’s Child

 

If we explain this coincident with borrowing, then who borrowed from who? And how did they borrow? If this epic took the story from the Gospels, then it means Christianity spread to India, and was strong enough to influence religion there. But considering that this epic was most likely started upon way before Christianity, it's more likely the influence was the opposite way. So again... who borrowed what from who?

 

Here you can read about the wonderful story about the hero Karna, and his demise: Karna (Wiki)

 

He wasn't crucified, but he died a violent death anyhow.

[Thackerie]

Ummm, it's spelled R-E-A-L-M.

 

Sorry to interrupt this discussion. Just had to correct this before it went much further.

[Guest end3]

Ummm, it's spelled R-E-A-L-M.

 

Sorry to interrupt this discussion. Just had to correct this before it went much further.

 

 

Thank you T.....I fixxed it.

[Abiyoyo]

Who could make up a story like this and be so consistent? Let's look at this story through END3's rose colored lenses.

 

The virgin birth: Suppose you have the realm of Heaven (no sin), and the realm of Earth (sin).....for Jesus to enter this realm to save man, I am assuming that his entry would not be like that of the "fallen" man, that is, the union between a woman and a "fallen" man (no pun intended), again, his birth by a defiled means. So I am saying, along with a few crackpots, that the union between Mary and the HS was from the Heaven side of the two realms.

And when Jesus was born, he broke the curtain (hymen), to allow access to God symbolically through a woman (the church).

 

Now, it seems to reason that his death would not be that of a conventional man. And there in we find the resurrection.

 

 

As Hans said End3, this was a common ''means'' of Savior, Messianic, Godlike man, especially in Egyptian Gods and Goddesses. Are you saying in End3 lingo that you don't see why people discredit it? That's how I read it anyway. I don't think alot of people did, even 30 years ago, unless they lived in the library. Now, on the other hand, information is endless, and obtainable on every level. So, the knowledge is increased, which is diminishing the story so to speak.

 

The rose color of the story for me, was the fact that this event occurred and was accredited to the God of this ancient religion.

[NonXNonExX]

Ha ha ha ha ha!! You got me!. I actually rushed to my dictionary to see what kind of crime "sperring" was. Poor spelling seems to be endemic among true believers. More on topic, i've read the gospels many times and i fail to see much consistency there at all, and even less compared to the Pauline epistles.

[Antlerman]

And when Jesus was born, he broke the curtain (hymen), to allow access to God symbolically through a woman (the church).

So you're saying that when we die that tunnel of light we pass through is actually Mary's cosmic vaginal canal, the same one Jesus came through to get to us on this side?

[today]

You mean like the story in the Mahabharata epic? Where Queen Kunti was impregnated by the god Surya (the god of the Sun), before she got married to King Pandu, and she begot Karna. The epic was written somewhere between 8th century BCE and 4th century CE. In other words, starting before the time of Jesus birth, and before the Gospels were written, and extending to the same time as the Gospels, and after.

 

She was terrified she was pregnant, and a virgin, and was going to get married, but the god of the Sun made sure she even stayed a virgin after the birth. Which Catholics call the immaculate conception. They too believe Mary kept her virginity after the birth.

 

Bheel Mahabharata: Kunti and the Birth of the Sun God’s Child

 

If we explain this coincident with borrowing, then who borrowed from who? And how did they borrow? If this epic took the story from the Gospels, then it means Christianity spread to India, and was strong enough to influence religion there. But considering that this epic was most likely started upon way before Christianity, it's more likely the influence was the opposite way. So again... who borrowed what from who?

 

Here you can read about the wonderful story about the hero Karna, and his demise: Karna (Wiki)

 

He wasn't crucified, but he died a violent death anyhow.

 

Kama link "It was intresting reading".

[today]

Who could make up a story like this and be so consistent? Let's look at this story through END3's rose colored lenses.

 

The virgin birth: Suppose you have the realm of Heaven (no sin), and the realm of Earth (sin).....for Jesus to enter this realm to save man, I am assuming that his entry would not be like that of the "fallen" man, that is, the union between a woman and a "fallen" man (no pun intended), again, his birth by a defiled means. So I am saying, along with a few crackpots, that the union between Mary and the HS was from the Heaven side of the two realms.

And when Jesus was born, he broke the curtain (hymen), to allow access to God symbolically through a woman (the church).

 

Now, it seems to reason that his death would not be that of a conventional man. And there in we find the resurrection.

 

Edited for sperring.

I don't know who you have been talking to?

 

I have never heard such a load.

 

Where is that in The Bible?

 

Or have you been smoking CRACK!

[Kuroikaze]

I don't know who you have been talking to?

 

I have never heard such a load.

 

Where is that in The Bible?

 

Or have you been smoking CRACK!

 

[florduh]

I think that's a perfectly good symbolic interpretation that jibes with the other virgin-born saviors mythology.

 

On the other hand, we'd all be better off if Mary was only into blow jobs.

 

(Oops - I'm going to Hell for that one!)

[Guest end3]

I am not crazy...just a little off center.....so listen. Let's look again.....this time maybe it will "penetrate"....

 

Jesus was born of a woman. In order for Him to be born without defilement from a fallen world, Mary was impregnated not from a fallen man dwelling on earth, but from the Spirit from a holy realm....Heaven if you wish.

 

So now when Jesus was born, the hymen (curtain) was torn, blood and water poured forth from Heaven and the connection was restored between the realms via Mary, letting Jesus into our realm, the fallen earth.

 

We also see this symbolism in Jesus as our doorway out of this world. Let's look Today, as for a Christian, you seem to be a touch thick. Now when Jesus was pierced in the side on the cross (His body being the curtain) was torn, blood and water poured forth in a since giving us a "birthing" into Heaven. The human spirit leaves but the body is left behind due to it being sin-filled.

 

Here be the tricky part.....I think Jesus body was never defiled, so His body did not need to be left behind....no body found in the tomb.

 

 

It is all pretty simple and matches, coming and going......my point is, it seems to be consistent and abstact enough to believe that the story came from God.

 

Also, if you look at the tabernackle, it is also set up somewhat like a woman's body....

 

But, as Hans says, I am not the first crazy to see this same thing.

[Guest end3]

And when Jesus was born, he broke the curtain (hymen), to allow access to God symbolically through a woman (the church).

So you're saying that when we die that tunnel of light we pass through is actually Mary's cosmic vaginal canal, the same one Jesus came through to get to us on this side?

 

Mary let Jesus in......Jesus let's us out.

 

FWIW...Just wanted to let you know AM, that I have been contemplating seeing God as more of a shared Spirit thing.....and I don't know that Christians are not somewhat like the Pharasees in John 9....not recognizing this shared Spirit in there midst.

[Antlerman]

The Lord is my Placenta. I shall not want. He maketh me to lie down on the birthing table. He spreadeth my legs. Yeah though I squat in the valley of birth, I shall not faint. He leadeth me to dilation. He delivereth my baby Jesus.

 

That's in there too, if you look hard enough.

 

 

 

 

[Looking4Answers]

So now when Jesus was born, the hymen (curtain) was torn

 

Now when Jesus was pierced in the side on the cross (His body being the curtain)

 

So are you saying that Mary's hymen is Jesus?

 

In any case, if we are going to go that far and make symbols out of everything, then there is really no reason to take any of it seriously. Hell becomes a symbol, so there is nothing to really fear in death for the unbeliever. Heaven is really a symbol, so there is nothing to really gain for the believer. God is just a symbol, so there is really no real entity to put one's faith in. Where do you draw the line and how do you know where to draw the line. I mean, once we see Mary's hymen as a curtain, then what else are we allowed to symbolize? Were her spread legs the two pillars of the temple?

[Guest end3]

Were her spread legs the two pillars of the temple?

 

 

Actually, I don't know that you are too far off here. If you look at the Holy of Holies...that would essentially be the womb...where life is formed....where God resided. The inner court (the "angina"), and the outer court.

 

Lots of folks L4A out there taking it pretty seriously......

 

Call it symbolism....and perhaps that is all it is......we don't know for sure.

[Looking4Answers]

QUOTE

Were her spread legs the two pillars of the temple?

 

 

 

Actually, I don't know that you are too far off here. If you look at the Holy of Holies...that would essentially be the womb...where life is formed....where God resided. The inner court (the "angina"), and the outer court.

 

So is that why that woman would cry out, "Oh, God!" when I would enter her Holy of Holies?

[Antlerman]

Were her spread legs the two pillars of the temple?

 

 

Actually, I don't know that you are too far off here. If you look at the Holy of Holies...that would essentially be the womb...where life is formed....where God resided. The inner court (the "angina"), and the outer court.

 

Lots of folks L4A out there taking it pretty seriously......

 

Call it symbolism....and perhaps that is all it is......we don't know for sure.

You're close to understanding the mindset of the author of Hebrews End.

[Looking4Answers]

You're close to understanding the mindset of the author of Hebrews End.

 

I've always looked at Hebrews as a form of a Hebrew midrash. It virtually follows the form of one and the symbolism as well. Perhaps Hebrews is a Christianized midrash.

[trashy]

Who could make up a story like this and be so consistent?

 

um - anyone?

 

Let's look at this story through END3's rose colored lenses.

 

The virgin birth: Suppose you have the realm of Heaven (no sin), and the realm of Earth (sin).....for Jesus to enter this realm to save man, I am assuming that his entry would not be like that of the "fallen" man, that is, the union between a woman and a "fallen" man (no pun intended), again, his birth by a defiled means. So I am saying, along with a few crackpots, that the union between Mary and the HS was from the Heaven side of the two realms.

And when Jesus was born, he broke the curtain (hymen), to allow access to God symbolically through a woman (the church).

 

Now, it seems to reason that his death would not be that of a conventional man. And there in we find the resurrection.

 

Edited for sperring.

 

You DO know that we're all *EX* Christians, right? That we've heard all those analogies and symbolic links before, right?

[Vixentrox]

Errrmm...you understand that a hymen can be torn without having sex? How do you KNOW hers was intact at the time of Jesus birth? It could have broke before god raped her.

[Dhampir]

So we're going the ol' sin gene route, eh? I know you didn't say sin gene specifically, but that's where you're going with your explanation for why Jesus HAD to be born of a virgin, I'm sure. Nowhere in the bible does it say that Jesus HAD to be born of a virgin, and nowhere does Jewish legend say that he must be. Furthermore, I don't recall any reason for the virgin birth to be due to the male's fallen nature, requiring that a woman must not be defiled in such a way, for Jesus to be born. Also... If Jesus was god, and all good anyway, why would it matter if man was the defiled one or not? Couldn't he have been conceived naturally and still been Jesus?

 

wouldn't it be impossible for man to pass on a trait to females if it can only be passed by males? If not, why don't females carry the "sin nature"? Eve ate the fruit first after all. And if Mary was conceived naturally, how could she have given birth to a sin-free Jesus, if Jesus couldn't otherwise defeat the sin nature? Some people assert that Mary was also immaculately conceived, though that only pushes the problem back a little from where I stand. Also, If Jesus was meant to experience life as a human, and experience temptation, wouldn't being incapable of sinning defeat the purpose?

 

If sin is some sort of heritable trait, why would god have left Adam and Eve to reproduce? Wouldn't it have been wiser and more humane to kill them after they sinned? Or at the very least avoid the rigmarole of this convoluted Salvation Plan, and just fix the problem internally in every person? He's not actually fixing the problem, anymore than pouring Robitussin on a broken leg will help it heal. On the other hand, since the fruit itself didn't bring sin into the world, but the act of disobeying God, that would mean that sin was actually present from the beginning, meaning that God intentionally created us to be capable of sin. So it would seem that fixing sin isn't the point at all.

 

Incidentally, this leads to the conclusion that God, though all-powerful, is by no means all-good. He created a world where we would eventually harm each other, and try to kill one another, for whatever purpose. He also created vast amounts of plagues and natural disasters to do us in, and in time, people who would find ways to blame all these things on powerless humanity.

[Tabula Rasa]

Who could make up a story like this and be so consistent? Let's look at this story through END3's rose colored lenses.

 

The virgin birth: Suppose you have the realm of Heaven (no sin), and the realm of Earth (sin).....for Jesus to enter this realm to save man, I am assuming that his entry would not be like that of the "fallen" man, that is, the union between a woman and a "fallen" man (no pun intended), again, his birth by a defiled means. So I am saying, along with a few crackpots, that the union between Mary and the HS was from the Heaven side of the two realms.

And when Jesus was born, he broke the curtain (hymen), to allow access to God symbolically through a woman (the church).

 

Now, it seems to reason that his death would not be that of a conventional man. And there in we find the resurrection.

 

Edited for sperring.

 

End3 you are trying to make God tiny and limited. How pray tell could two little humans defile God's creation(a unimaginably large universe) by eating some fruit he told them not to? If such a being created and has control over everything, it is impossible to "defile" anything of his. Christians say that God cannot stand to be in the presence of sin. If he is also as the christians say, everywhere, then why aren't all of us sinners dead? Surely, we'd all be lightning bolted on sight by this vengeful god.

 

Were we human beings in need of forgiveness, God, supposedly being the Creator and Lord of all things could easily do so without such a torturous endeavour as the bloody crucifixion.

 

If there be an omnipotent god, you surely cannot put he, the infinite, into a finite container. It would be as much a fool's errand as trying to contain all the world's oceans in a teacup.

 

If there be a god, his name is neither Yahweh, Al-lah, or Jesus. For the attributes, and accounts given to them make them too petty and small to truly be "GOD".

[today]

Who could make up a story like this and be so consistent? Let's look at this story through END3's rose colored lenses.

 

The virgin birth: Suppose you have the realm of Heaven (no sin), and the realm of Earth (sin).....for Jesus to enter this realm to save man, I am assuming that his entry would not be like that of the "fallen" man, that is, the union between a woman and a "fallen" man (no pun intended), again, his birth by a defiled means. So I am saying, along with a few crackpots, that the union between Mary and the HS was from the Heaven side of the two realms.

And when Jesus was born, he broke the curtain (hymen), to allow access to God symbolically through a woman (the church).

 

Now, it seems to reason that his death would not be that of a conventional man. And there in we find the resurrection.

 

Edited for sperring.

 

End3 you are trying to make God tiny and limited. How pray tell could two little humans defile God's creation(a unimaginably large universe) by eating some fruit he told them not to? If such a being created and has control over everything, it is impossible to "defile" anything of his. Christians say that God cannot stand to be in the presence of sin. If he is also as the christians say, everywhere, then why aren't all of us sinners dead? Surely, we'd all be lightning bolted on sight by this vengeful god.

 

Were we human beings in need of forgiveness, God, supposedly being the Creator and Lord of all things could easily do so without such a torturous endeavour as the bloody crucifixion.

 

If there be an omnipotent god, you surely cannot put he, the infinite, into a finite container. It would be as much a fool's errand as trying to contain all the world's oceans in a teacup.

 

If there be a god, his name is neither Yahweh, Al-lah, or Jesus. For the attributes, and accounts given to them make them too petty and small to truly be "GOD".

 

End3

I am sure you have answers to all these queastions and statments.

 

Where did you hear that, did God tell you that, i still cannot find that in the bible, and I retract the statment about the crack thing, sorry about that!

[today]

You know i have been going all over the net looking at all kind of forums (christain,ex-christain,non-christain,atheist,agnostic) and i have to say that everyone says that christains are are the evil ones because of the God that they believe in is evil.

 

I do under stand the mind set many here have against christiainity and christains, just look at the nonscence End3 wrote. but you guys look like all the hate is coming from you, I really don't under stand all the bashing, (and a few of you guys), i was really supprised to see you jump in on it, but i think that the, "mob rule thing", even holds on the net.