Disprove The Bible, Not Modern Christianity

[Guest Cabbage]

I have been a Christian for only about five months, but I was radically changed and my thought process was completely altered during the process. At the moment, however, I am trying to find some way to justify not believing in the God of the bible. I got to a point where I was seeing things in the Bible that no other Christians are teaching today: you cannot sin if you want to go to heaven, when you pray in Jesus' name it's not simply to say you are but you have to be living in the word of God to be praying in His name (Rev 13:9 "his name is called the word of God"), and many, MANY other things that became so obvious after opening up my heart and being willing to suffer for Jesus. I got to the point where I would just sit in my room all day and read the Bible because it brought life to me and joy.

 

However, I have succumbed to my fleshy desires and I am looking for a way to disprove the Bible. I've even gone to such great lengths as to suppose aliens created it! The problem with being so familiar with the Bible is that I can easily find the fallacies with many of the arguments against it that I find on the web. Many of the apparent "contradictions" are not contradictory at all! Also, I often find that the argument is against modern Christians and their practices (modern Christians live no differently than non-Christians). It's true that Christians today (especially in America) live like the devil (as defined by the Bible), but that doesn't disprove the BIBLE! Can anyone point me to a good, solid rebuke of the Bible? Not something that just says that the resurrection was physically impossible (if there is a God, HE CAN DO THAT!) or anything along those lines, but something that really leaves no doubt that the Bible is false.

 

I suppose a lot of you were the typical churchgoing Christians. But if there is anyone who really dove into the word and realized that if the Bible is true then we should not associate with churchgoing Christians (what fellowship hath a temple of God with a temple of demons?) or that salvation (as depicted in the Bible) is an ongoing process and not something that just happens when you go to heaven, then I'd like to hear how you came to be an ex-christian.

 

Oh, and by the way, please don't send me to a website that tries to say there was never a historical Jesus! Trust me, I've looked into that extensively, and I have no doubt that someone like the Jesus of the Bible existed. However, perhaps he was just preaching hot air.

[Guest Marty]

Many people here will echo the statement "the fastest way to Atheism is to read the bible".

 

However, there is no real magic bullet like you are asking. The bible is false on many, many levels. Science, history, geography, mathematics, zoology, biology, the list goes on and on. If you look at the bible as a whole, you will find that it contains no knowledge that was not available to first century peoples. That is why it contains so many errors, it was created during the bronze age. Can you think of anything else from the bronze age we still cling to?

 

Oh, one more thing...since without the bible we would have no knowledge of jesus or xtianity itself, than disproving the bible entails disproving xtianity, doesn't it?

[Japedo]

Well, I wish you much luck on your search for truth.

 

I'm not really sure what your asking for here Cabbage, Do you not want to associate with Church goers? You want to give into your fleshy desires (whatever that means?) or are you on a mission to find the one true ™ god? The Bible in and of itself is very easily disproven as fact which is separate from faith.

 

However, I have succumbed to my fleshy desires and I am looking for a way to disprove the Bible. I've even gone to such great lengths as to suppose aliens created it! The problem with being so familiar with the Bible is that I can easily find the fallacies with many of the arguments against it that I find on the web. Many of the apparent "contradictions" are not contradictory at all!

 

Which Contradictions can you show aren't really contradictions? Are you talking Old testament, New Testament, all of it? I'd really like to see some examples from you of contradictions that really aren't contradictions. Thanks!

[Creepy Doll]

Wow. The Bible's easy to disprove. Really reading it was what started my questioning my faith. Before that I just read what was handed down from the pulpit and ignored the rest, like most Christians. If you want to lose your faith in a hurry, read the bible with an open mind.

[Badger]

I'm puzzled why the Bible should be disproved. What's the point? You can always ignore it, if you don't like it. It's that simple.

[Japedo]

I'm puzzled why the Bible should be disproved. What's the point? You can always ignore it, if you don't like it. It's that simple.

 

Badger,

 

Why would you be puzzled? People are told the bible is a life guide of how to live from God, of course it should be tested for validity!!!! It is absurd you, a professed Xtian would tell someone struggling to just ignore it. :wtf: :omg:

[buffettphan]

I'm puzzled why the Bible should be disproved. What's the point? You can always ignore it, if you don't like it. It's that simple.

 

 

It has nothing to do with not liking the bible. It has to do with REALITY.

 

Edit:

 

PS Not that I like the buybull! Biblegod is a cruel SOB. Thankfully, he isn't real.

[Ouroboros]

However, I have succumbed to my fleshy desires and I am looking for a way to disprove the Bible. I've even gone to such great lengths as to suppose aliens created it! The problem with being so familiar with the Bible is that I can easily find the fallacies with many of the arguments against it that I find on the web. Many of the apparent "contradictions" are not contradictory at all! Also, I often find that the argument is against modern Christians and their practices (modern Christians live no differently than non-Christians). It's true that Christians today (especially in America) live like the devil (as defined by the Bible), but that doesn't disprove the BIBLE! Can anyone point me to a good, solid rebuke of the Bible? Not something that just says that the resurrection was physically impossible (if there is a God, HE CAN DO THAT!) or anything along those lines, but something that really leaves no doubt that the Bible is false.

Oh, that's very good. Then we should look at a couple. I will try to dig up some old ones later.

 

I suppose a lot of you were the typical churchgoing Christians.

Well... then you are supposing wrong. We have ex-pastors, ex-bible-teachers, ex-missionaries here.

 

Personally I was Christian for 30 years, since I was 7 years old. I was a tongue-speaking, holly-roller, knocking-on-doors-to-preach-the-gospel Christian. I went on two mission trips. I went to one year Bible school. I spent about 10-20 hours a week, voluntary, in Church. And much, much more. (Oh, I prophesied in tongues too, and exorcised demons)

 

So, no, the common Christians would consider me one of those extremist nut-jobs. I thought Church was were ever I was. So I prayed day and night. Morning sessions, evening sessions, read the Bible, heck I had a small, portable Bible with me at all times.

 

But if there is anyone who really dove into the word and realized that if the Bible is true then we should not associate with churchgoing Christians (what fellowship hath a temple of God with a temple of demons?) or that salvation (as depicted in the Bible) is an ongoing process and not something that just happens when you go to heaven, then I'd like to hear how you came to be an ex-christian.

It's complicated.

 

When you get into hardship, and you pray, you either feel comfort and strength in your faith, or you don't. When you don't, you trust God to fill you up with faith, and you ask for it. But when God doesn't, then faith goes by itself, since that's what you're getting when doubt sets in.

[Ouroboros]

Cabbage,

 

Here's one little thing in the Bible I can't figure out:

 

God told Moses, "And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them." (KJV) Ex 6:3.

 

Jehova there is the old translation of YHWH, just FYI.

 

And yet in Gen 22:14 we can read: "And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovahjireh: as it is said to this day, In the mount of the LORD it shall be seen." And Jehova in Jehovahjireh, is the same YHWH.

 

So obviously Abraham DID know God by the name YHWH. So why did God lie to Moses? Or is the explanation that this is a mistake by the authors?

 

Or maybe I should ask L4A on this website, because he reads Hebrew. What do you say L4A, is there an explanation to this contradiction hidden in translation errors perhaps?

[Badger]

Why would you be puzzled? People are told the bible is a life guide of how to live from God, of course it should be tested for validity!!!! It is absurd you, a professed Xtian would tell someone struggling to just ignore it.

One can tests its validity, if they like to, but it shouldn't be done using modern standards. There are great gaps between us and them, and therefore it is necessary for us to first study how they understood the world before we can do judgments. I guess it is not hard to find errors from the modern perspective and with the modern knowledge. However, I was puzzled because does it matter if there are errors? It requires we have defined what "error" means.

[Japedo]

Why would you be puzzled? People are told the bible is a life guide of how to live from God, of course it should be tested for validity!!!! It is absurd you, a professed Xtian would tell someone struggling to just ignore it.

One can tests its validity, if they like to, but it shouldn't be done using modern standards. There are great gaps between us and them, and therefore it is necessary for us to first study how they understood the world before we can do judgments. I guess it is not hard to find errors from the modern perspective and with the modern knowledge. However, I was puzzled because does it matter if there are errors? It requires we have defined what "error" means.

 

 

That's a cop out! The truth would endure no matter the time period, as sure as Gravity has endured. The truth is Irrelevant to the time period, either something is or it's not. Isn't that the meaning of the same yesterday, today and forever? (Hebrews 13:8)

 

This is what's so irritating with Christians, they have a sliding scale, as soon as something makes then uncomfortable they move the goalpost to fit their skewed view.

[par4dcourse]

It requires we have defined what "error" means.

That depends on what your definition of "is" is. --Bill Clinton

 

You are obviously asking a deeper question, because a quick google search will give you days of reading on biblical errors. We have biblical scholars on this site that can put more holes in any bible story than ants at a picnic. What is it you really want to know?

[Badger]

This is what's so irritating with Christians, they have a sliding scale, as soon as something makes then uncomfortable they move the goalpost to fit their skewed view.

Nothing makes me uncomfortable regarding the the issue, but obviously you think you know me better. That a biblical author shared a view with his contemporaries, which we know is wrong from modern perspective, is not error. It is to be expected that each book of the Bible reflects ideas and views of their day since they were written in specific point in human history and are tied to the world of their authors.

[Vixentrox]

I'm puzzled why the Bible should be disproved. What's the point? You can always ignore it, if you don't like it. It's that simple.

....like most Christians do, or at least the parts they don't agree with.

[Neon Genesis]

Can anyone point me to a good, solid rebuke of the Bible? Not something that just says that the resurrection was physically impossible (if there is a God, HE CAN DO THAT!) or anything along those lines, but something that really leaves no doubt that the Bible is false.

One of the Ten Commandments says "Thou shalt not murder", right? If the bible has no contradicitons in it, and murder is a sin in the bible, then how is it justified for God to command the murder of innocent children in 1 Samuel 15:2-3?

This is what the Lord of hosts has to say: 'I will punish what Amalek did to Israel when he barred his way as he was coming up from Egypt. Go, now, attack Amalek, and deal with him and all that he has under the ban. Do not spare him, but kill men and women, children and infants, oxen and sheep, camels and asses.'

[Badger]

In fact, Neon Genesis, that's not contradiction. The commandment "You shall not murder" had specific meaning, that left the way open for the killing in war or as capital punishment.

Whatever broadening of application it may have had in later years, its basic prohibition was against killing, for whatever cause, under whatever circumstances, and by whatever method, a fellow-member of the covenant community. - - What is certain is that רצח describes a killing of human beings forbidden by Yahweh to those who are in covenant with him. The use of such a specialized term in the specific context of the Decalogue leaves the way open for the killing of the Yahweh-war or capital punishment, both of which are of course permitted by the OT, and also sets apart other uses of רצח by relating them inevitably to the obligations of the covenant with Yahweh. (John Durham, World Biblical Commentary, Volume 3: Exodus)

[florduh]

Maybe

will help clear things up.

[hereticzero]

Disprove the Bible, not Christianity? You've got to be kidding? Christianity was built up around that book of dreams. Christianity bases its beliefs and blood thirstiness on the writings of 'god's word'. The religion is the outward expression of the Bible nonsense. They can both go out with the baby's water!

[Kathlene]

I struggle so much with the Bible's truth. Say for an example you are an African tribesman in the middle of nowhere in Africa. A missionary starts to communicate with you and show's you the Bible. Why should this tribesman accept your assertion that this book is the only truth to be found and he must live his life according to it, and according to what some guy 2000 yrs ago did for him. Where is the proof that it is truth? What if that missionary had a Koran instead? Where is the evidence and authority that either of those books are solid truth? Christians will say the Koran is from the devil with all its wild stories of flying horses and what have you..but then totally accept the virgin birth and resurrection. So why is the Bible truth? Then the christian will answer because god says so. The bible says so. Totally circular to me. That is the exact reason why the bible should stand up as something above normal standards, but it doesn't.

 

That is something I struggle with constantly. If I am going to change my life totally and live for someone from a book, I want to have pretty good authority that it is truth. Why should I ever go back to being someone who is fine and dandy with judging homosexuals just because a book tells me it's wrong? Even now I feel such embarrassment over those ways of thinking I used to have. Yes Cabbage I was just not some typical churchgoer either...a very rude assumption and generalisation you made about us on here by the way. I was a fullon born-again tongue speaking holy roller that lived extremely for God. It is possible to be that , and then to walk away from it all.

[Kurari]

Why would we need to disprove the Bible? To me that's kind of like saying disprove Aesop's Fables. The Bible is just a collection of stories. What exactly are you looking for?

[chefranden]

I have been a Christian for only about five months...being so familiar with the Bible is that I can easily find the fallacies...

 

Only 5 months, and yet you are such an accomplished scholar, amazing. Seriously I think you could stand a bit more study before you get all fired sure you know what it is about, or isn't about. That would include the historicity of the person of Jesus. I'm 59 and I've spent at least 53 of those thinking, wondering, reading, studying religion, and getting a degree in the same, and yet I'm still unsure whether there was or was not a real Jesus that somewhat matches the gospel accounts.

 

 

However, to answer your question it would be useful to know what you mean by "disprove the Bible".

[Creepy Doll]

I'm puzzled why the Bible should be disproved. What's the point? You can always ignore it, if you don't like it. It's that simple.

 

 

It has nothing to do with not liking the bible. It has to do with REALITY.

 

For me it has to do with the fact the the bible fucks people up. There's good reason to disprove and discredit it. It's a nuisance to society that hopefully someday will be eradicated.

[Jedah]

You can show how any contradiction is not really a contradiction if you are willing to be intellectually dishonest enough.

[DarthOkkata]

An error, is an error, is an error.

 

It doesn't matter when it was made, it's still an error.

 

Pi did not equal three then, just as it does not now.

 

The moon does not make it's own light now, just as it did not then.

 

The Earth is not flat, nor does it have corners now, nor did it then.

 

You want contradictions? Fine.

 

PSA 145:9 The LORD is good to all: and his tender mercies are over all his works.

 

JER 13:14 And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.

 

 

EXO 15:3 The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.

 

ROM 15:33 Now the God of peace be with you all. Amen.

 

 

MAT 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.

 

LUK 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli.

 

 

MAT 28:1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

 

MAR 16:1 And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him.

 

JOH 20:1 The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.

 

 

JOH 10:30 I and my Father are one.

 

JOH 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

 

 

 

GEN 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

GEN 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

 

GEN 2:18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.

GEN 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

 

 

GEN 7:2 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.

 

GEN 7:8 Of clean beasts, and of beasts that are not clean, and of fowls, and of every thing that creepeth upon the earth, GEN 7:9 There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah.

 

 

1KI 4:26 And Solomon had forty thousand stalls of horses for his chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen.

 

2CH 9:25 And Solomon had four thousand stalls for horses and chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen; whom he bestowed in the chariot cities, and with the king at Jerusalem.

 

 

PRO 4:7 Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding.

 

ECC 1:18 For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.

 

1CO 1:19: "For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent."

 

 

 

ACT 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;

 

MAT 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.

 

 

 

ISA 14:21 Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities.

 

DEU 24:16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.

 

 

ACT 1:18: "Now this man (Judas) purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out."

 

MAT 27:5-7: "And he (Judas) cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself. And the chief priests...bought with them the potter's field."

 

 

MAT 27:46,50: "And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, "Eli, eli, lama sabachthani?" that is to say, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" ...Jesus, when he cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost."

 

LUK 23:46: "And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, "Father, unto thy hands I commend my spirit:" and having said thus, he gave up the ghost."

 

JOH 19:30: "When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, "It is finished:" and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost."

 

 

II SAMUEL 24:13: So God came to David, and told him, and said unto him, shall SEVEN YEARS OF FAMINE come unto thee in thy land? or will thou flee three months before thine enemies, while they pursue. thee?

 

I CHRONICLES 21:11: SO God came to David, and said unto him, Thus saith the LORD, Choose thee. Either THREE YEARS OF FAMINE or three months to be destroyed before thy foes, while that the sword of thine enemies overtaketh thee;

 

 

 

God CAN be seen:

"And I will take away my hand, and thou shalt see my backparts." (EXO 33:23)

"And the Lord spake to Moses face to face, as a man speaketh to his friend." (EXO 33:11)

"For I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved." (GEN 32:30)

 

God CANNOT be seen:

"No man hath seen God at any time." (JOH 1:18)

"And he said, Thou canst not see my face; for there shall no man see me and live." (EXO 33:20)

"Whom no man hath seen nor can see." (1TIM 6:16)

 

 

"I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy." (JER 13:14) "Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not, but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling."

 

"The Lord is very pitiful and of tender mercy." (JAS 5:11)

"For his mercy endureth forever." (1CH 16:34)

"The Lord is good to all, and his tender mercies are over all his works." (PSA 145:9)

"God is love." (1JO 4:16)

 

 

 

And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham." (GEN 22:1)

 

"Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God; for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man." (JAS 1:13)

 

 

"And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven." (2KI 2:11)

 

"No man hath ascended up to heaven but he that came down from heaven, ... the Son of Man." (JOH 3:13)

 

 

PRO 26:4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.

 

PRO 26:5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.

 

 

1 Cor 2:15 "The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment:"

 

1 Cor 4:5 "Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait till the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of men's hearts. At that time each will receive his praise from God."

 

 

Matt 5:16 "In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven."

 

Matt 6:3-4 "But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you."

 

 

MAT 12:30 He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.

 

MAR 9:40 For he that is not against us is on our part.

 

LUK 9:50 And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.

 

 

MAT 28:2 And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it.

MAT 28:3 His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow:

MAT 28:4 And for fear of him the keepers did shake, and became as dead men.

MAT 28:5 And the angel answered and said unto the women, Fear not ye: for I know that ye seek Jesus, which was crucified.

 

MAR 16:5 And entering into the sepulchre, they saw a young man sitting on the right side, clothed in a long white garment; and they were affrighted.

 

LUK 24:4 And it came to pass, as they were much perplexed thereabout, behold, two men stood by them in shining garments:

 

JOH 20:12 And seeth two angels in white sitting, the one at the head, and the other at the feet, where the body of Jesus had lain.

 

 

There, how's that for a start? Plenty of contradictions. There's lots more where these came from as well. Have at it. Do explain how these 'aren't really contradictions at all'?

 

Cause they are. Blatant, bald faced, contradictions.

[Vixentrox]

Many people here will echo the statement "the fastest way to Atheism is to read the bible".

-Raises hand- Actually reading and studying the Bible outside of preacher approved verses was one of the prime reasons I became an atheist that's for sure.