What Makes Us Different Than Animals?

[Ouroboros]

The only thing I can really think of is that animals don't commit premeditated murder, as far as we know.

I don't agree. There's been cases of Lions going crazy that stalk humans to kill, but not eat. It can be excused to be an anomaly or sickness, but isn't killing other humans a form of sickness too?

 

The cat chase the mice before it eats it. Playing around with its food. Having some fun and entertainment before dinner.

 

I think the "killing gene" is much the same, but we are more complex in how we express it. Wars, serial killers, killing kids because God told us to, and all that stupid stuff. We just do it with a twist.

[chefranden]

I've been thinking of late that the best way to talk about humans is as very highly developed animals.

 

Many of our genes map with genes of other primates.

 

The exterior cortex of the human brain is vastly more developed than in even other higher primate brains (or dolphins, etc. as far as we know).  There are many functions, esp. of that part of the brain, that humans can carry on which even other highly intelligent animals cannot carry on.  Some animals carry on functions of other parts of the brain better than we do:  process sensory information, for example, or coordinate movement of hind feet, leaping, and such. Even young children's brains aren't developed enough to carry on certain functions that they'll be able to perform at age 18 or 23.  So some things no other ape or dolphin will be able to do unless those species evolve more powerful brains.

 

That doesn't mean that humans will prove to be a highly successful species.  In our short existence we may succeed in wrecking the biosphere enough to cause our own extinction, who knows. 

 

"soul" for me is a catchword for intellective and emotive brain-neural functions.  I do not know of any occult part of the human being that survives the death of the body.

 

 

So we can think, big deal. I think that thinking is a evolutionary dead end, evidenced by the assumption that we are the only species that does it. Lots of species can fly, breath water, make vitamin C, photosynthizise, eat wood, have babies in pouches so they don't need ultra sound to check up on the wee one, go without eating for weeks, and so on and etc. But we are "the only" species that does any "thinking". Maybe that is why we are frelling insane?

 

Have you ever wondered why people do studies to see if gorillas can learn to speak human, but not to see if humans can speak gorilla. So which species can be bilingual?

[chefranden]

We are WAY,WAY,WAY,WAY MORE responsible for destroying the environment and killing off species than any of the other animals. We are special and superior.

 

Absofrellinglutly!

[chefranden]

When I was a kid I had 2 hamsters. I had them for almost 2 years.

They slept together inside a ceramic frog (big open mouth originally to hold a dish washing scrubber).

One day I noticed they were sleeping apart.

The one inside the frog just looked like a cute ball of fluff, so I stroked that one first.

Only to get bit really hard.

Shocked, I went to the sink to clean the blood. Something had to be wrong, neither of them had ever bitten me before (nipped sure, but not a skin tearing bite).

I went back over and took a closer look. The one that bit me was still curled up in the frog.

The other, the one I thought was asleep, was actually dead.

I disposed of the body, and gave the aquarium I kept them in a good cleaning.

The surviving hamster stopped eating. Wasn't drinking that I could tell....and a few days later was dead. It didn't leave the frog once after his friend died (both males).

 

And I've remember reading part of a cat guide about how to help your pet deal with grief.

And there are stories of dogs that refused to leave their owners graves until they died too.

 

I say if we have souls, then animals do too.

 

 

But this isn't "Scientific". Something that is not "Scientific" can't be real!

[Amethyst]

I don't agree. There's been cases of Lions going crazy that stalk humans to kill, but not eat. It can be excused to be an anomaly or sickness, but isn't killing other humans a form of sickness too?

 

But is that really murder on their part? Or is it instinctual behavior? (i.e. getting rid of a potential threat to their territory?)

 

The cat chase the mice before it eats it. Playing around with its food. Having some fun and entertainment before dinner.

 

Um...isn't that because the mice usually run away? And if it's eating for survival, how is that murder?

[Ouroboros]

But is that really murder on their part?  Or is it instinctual behavior?  (i.e. getting rid of a potential threat to their territory?)

Murder is a word we invented to give killing a moral value. Killing can be approved in certain circumstances, while murder never is. But murder is just a form of killing.

 

They hunted humans outside their normal territory, and humans that wasn't a threat. Unfortunately I can't remember the articles I read about these cases, though rare, they do occure from time to time.

 

Um...isn't that because the mice usually run away?  And if it's eating for survival, how is that murder?

I think the cat actually sometimes lets go of the mice and keeps on hunting it. But I can't prove it to you.

[Amethyst]

Murder is a word we invented to give killing a moral value. Killing can be approved in certain circumstances, while murder never is. But murder is just a form of killing.

 

True to an extent. But I don't think that animals have the ability to reason under which circumstances we humans approve of killing. Perhaps a dolphin might.

[Ouroboros]

True to an extent.  But  I don't think that animals have the ability to reason under which circumstances we humans approve of killing.  Perhaps a dolphin might. 

True. I don't think they reason why they do it or not the same way we do. But why do some people find it entertaining to hunt dear, and there's no other explanation that they "like" it.

 

I found an interesting article of cats chasing mice, it's a learned behaviour and not instinct, and also they gave a different explanation to why they "play" with their prey: inconfidence. Heh! Funny...

 

http://www.perfectpaws.com/help3.html

 

I'm trying to find the article about the "killer lion" in Africa some years ago. There's a specific incident I remeber but can't find it. But I heard stories about these "demon" lions from some missionaries once. It very well could be explained with some kind of feeling of threat anyway, since we invade more and more of their territories, and we're not giving them enough room to roam, or food to find.

[Amethyst]

But why do some people find it entertaining to hunt dear, and there's no other explanation that they "like" it.

 

Well, yeah. Or duck hunting. I'm sure very few duck hunters actually eat the ducks they kill. I had an uncle who used to make deer sausage, though. That, to me, is better than hunting for the sake of hunting.

 

Now with fishing, I'd think that most people eat the fish they catch, unless they have to release them due to their state regulations. My parents fish a lot on the lake by their cabin and eat whatever they catch, usually walleye. Fishing is also a huge part of Minnesota culture, though.

[Ouroboros]

Well, yeah.  Or duck hunting.  I'm sure very few duck hunters actually eat the ducks they kill.  I had an uncle who used to make deer sausage, though.  That, to me, is better than hunting for the sake of hunting.

Agree.

 

Now with fishing, I'd think that most people eat the fish they catch, unless they have to release them due to their state regulations.  My parents fish a lot on the lake by their cabin and eat whatever they catch, usually walleye.  Fishing is also a huge part of Minnesota culture, though.

Fishing is like golfing. It's the serenity and peace that they long for, more than a thrill to be suprior in power and hunting skills. I think...

[Hero of Hyrule]

I think that cats play with mice because they are still kittens inside. That's why they want to be cuddled. It's part of their domestication, house cats nerver grow up. Wildcats who are brought up by humans are still differnt in behavior from normal house cats.

That's what I heard from a BBC documentary.

 

About murder, there are lots of examples in wich animals kill each other and I think that killing your fellow robin

because you want his terriory comes pretty close to murder.

[Amethyst]

Fishing is like golfing. It's the serenity and peace that they long for, more than a thrill to be suprior in power and hunting skills. I think...

 

Yeah, it's the chance to get away from it all and get back to nature. That's why people go to cabins in the first place.

[Amethyst]

About murder, there are lots of examples in wich animals kill each other and I think that killing your fellow robin because you want his terriory comes pretty close to murder.

 

Again, I don't know for sure about that.

 

For example, I have a pet leopard gecko. They will attack pretty much anything that's smaller than them and moves because they think it's food. If I was dumb enough to get a smaller gecko from the pet store, and put it in it's cage, my gecko would probably attack it. But it's not the same motivations that humans have. It would be thinking "Mmm...food." Not "it's smaller and weaker than me, so I hate it, and therefore it should die" or something of that nature.

[Ouroboros]

Amethyst, what you're trying to say is that when animals kill, they do it based on a purpose or instict of some kind, (except IMO for when they have some mental condition that they go crazy), while humans have the ability to kill just for the game. But isn't the feeling from playing a game a kind of emotion though... just thinking...

[Amethyst]

Amethyst, what you're trying to say is that when animals kill, they do it based on a purpose or instict of some kind, (except IMO for when they have some mental condition that they go crazy), while humans have the ability to kill just for the game. But isn't the feeling from playing a game a kind of emotion though... just thinking...

 

Yeah, I think so. I'm sure there are animals which might kill just for the game, but I think they're few & far between. Also, they don't plot out kills for weeks or months like some murderers do.

[Ouroboros]

Very true. Serial killers can plan for a long time to establish their MO. It's the result of intelligence. I guess that's something we have different from animals, we plan our future behaviour for long time ahead. Maybe we have a better understanding and "feeling" of time and what time is?

[Amethyst]

Maybe we have a better understanding and "feeling" of time and what time is?

 

Well, at least time as we understand it. Animals might well have their own conception of time, but I think it's more in the short run since they seem to concentrate more on immediate survival.

[Ouroboros]

I saw a documentary once about autistic savants, and one of the segments was about people that didn't have the time notion at all. They couldn't understand before/now/later what-so-ever. The weirdest thing...

[Totallyatpeace]

Religion.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Since this is the theology section, I'm going to say this.

 

God created *name that animal or plant*..........and it was good.

 

God created man....... and breathed life into him. To a Christian, that's where the soul comes from. We were created in his image and then he breathed life into us.

 

I believe this is the Christian perspective.

 

If you've ever been with somebody when they died, there is a definite "leaving" that happens. They almost appear to be an empty shell. Whether that's simply life exiting the body or a soul leaving.......it's very noticable. At least that's my experience.

 

Tap

[white_raven23]

But this isn't "Scientific".  Something that is not "Scientific" can't be real!

 

 

My butt is real.

 

[white_raven23]

And......regarding the murder discussion....

 

 

"murder" is a human socio-cultural concept. Even still, not all of us would necessarily agree what action would constitute "murder". Especially if one of us came from a very different culture.

 

After all, what most of us see as "domestic violence" in our culture, in the yannomami culture is an expression of affection. How badly a man beats the crapola out of his wives, shows his dedication for them. One wife will boast if she has more lumps and bruises than another wife.

[Amethyst]

God created man....... and breathed life into him. To a Christian, that's where the soul comes from. We were created in his image and then he breathed life into us.

 

So animals are not alive then?

[Totallyatpeace]

So animals are not alive then?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Sorry that wasn't very clear.

 

I was referring to breathing His life into us........as in his "image".

 

I have no idea, Amethyst. That's just my understanding of the soul.

 

 

[Amethyst]

I was referring to breathing His life into us........as in his "image".

 

So if an intelligent alien race made first contact with us, and they looked absolutely nothing like us, would you still believe?

[Totallyatpeace]

So if an intelligent alien race made first contact with us, and they looked absolutely nothing like us, would you still believe?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Wow. That's certainly a different subject, isn't it?

 

Amethyst~

 

If I learned of absolute proof of something other than what I believe........I would change my beliefs.