If God Is Love, Then Explain These Scriptures Away

[Discordia]

I don't post here often but I am really tired of all the intolerant, arrogant, sanctimonious xians coming here preaching to us EX-xians. We, too, were once like you, wrapped in self-righteous indignation that someone should dare to question the power of our all-powerful, all-mighty god.

But, unlike you xian blatherskites, we gave up on the bloody, badly written fairy tales in favor of rational thinking and human compassion. You say that we need to read the bible and pray for god to speak to us. Silly people, reading that evil book is what drove a lot of us away from your faith of hate.

 

These are verses from your holy book. I have put short headings to give you an idea of what they address. If I am wrong, please give a rational explanation how I am wrong about what the verses are saying. I will NOT accept any cop-out such as No One Can Understand The Workings Of God or God Works In Mysterious Ways. If you can't give a logical argument don't bother posting.

 

 

God Likes Baby Killers:

 

Psalms

137:9 Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.

 

 

God Is OK with Genocide (and by extrapolation, abortion. You can’t kill everyone without killing pregnant women and their unborn children):

 

Deuteronomy:

3:6-7 And we utterly destroyed them, as we did unto Sihon king of Hesbon, utterly destroying the men, women, and children, of every city. But all the cattle, and the spoil of the cities we took for a prey to ourselves.

 

1 Samuel

15:2-3 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt. Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.

 

 

God’s Rules Of Selling Your Daughters Into Sexual Slavery:

 

Deuteronomy

21:7 And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do.

21:8 If she please not her master, who hath betrothed her to himself, then shall he let her be redeemed: to sell her unto a strange nation he shall have no power, seeing he hath dealt deceitfully with her.

21:9 And if he have betrothed her unto his son, he shall deal with her after the manner of daughters.

21:10 If he take him another wife; her food, her raiment, and her duty of marriage, shall he not diminish.

21:11 And if he do not these three unto her, then shall she go out free without money.

 

 

God’s Rules Of Raping -- or How To Rape And Release In God’s Name:

 

Deuteronomy

21:11 And seest among the captives a beautiful woman, and hast a desire unto her, that thou wouldest have her to thy wife;

21:12 Then thou shalt bring her home to thine house, and she shall shave her head, and pare her nails;

21:13 And she shall put the raiment of her captivity from off her, and shall remain in thine house, and bewail her father and her mother a full month: and after that thou shalt go in unto her, and be her husband, and she shall be thy wife.

21:14 And it shall be, if thou have no delight in her, then thou shalt let her go whither she will; but thou shalt not sell her at all for money, thou shalt not make merchandise of her, because thou hast humbled her.

 

 

God Makes Evil:

 

Isaiah

45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

 

 

There really are other gods that just God:

 

Exodus:

18:11 Now I know that the LORD is greater than all gods: for in the thing wherein they dealt proudly he was above them.

 

 

God’s Rules for Pedophilia:

 

Numbers:

31:17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.

31:18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves

 

31:32 And the booty, being the rest of the prey which the men of war had caught, was six hundred thousand and seventy thousand and five thousand sheep....31:35 And thirty and two thousand persons in all, of women that had not known man by lying with him.

 

 

Once Again, God Doesn't Mind Abortion:

 

Hosea:

13:16 Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up.

 

 

 

That is the God you worship. Those are horrible stories glorifying hatred, suffering and death and they are in YOUR HOLY BOOK as examples for the faithful to follow. I can't understand how anyone can read these verses and continue to worship something that orders the slaughter of innocents, who delights in the deaths of children. That is nothing but EVIL.

 

Period.

[John09]

Yeah, and that god is a moral relativist too. It's right when he says it is, and it's wrong when he says so. That fucker. lol

 

Ah, well...when the blind lead the blind, they both fall into the ditch (the ditch, of course, being christianity).

[lunaticheathen]

Yep. These are only a few reasons why I would NEVER worship this god, even if it's real. He's an evil bastard. He also lied to Adam and Eve. The Serpent told the truth. I've never heard that one adequately explained. Only cop outs about "spiritual death", but he said ON THAT DAY, they would die from eating the fruit. Nope, even big G said "oops, they're like gods, like that snake said, better kick them out before they get to the Tree of Life and never die! SHIT SHIT, FLAMING SWORD!"

Dickhead.

[dagnarus]

Good and Love are abstract concepts. In all likelihood when I say love I mean something different to what you mean. Given this it isn't hard to see how God can be considered to be loving, it may be a creepy, crazy, love, but that describes the concept of love which many people have. This is the probably the scariest aspect of Christianity, I wouldn't doubt that it has warped many Christians concept of what it means to be loving and good.

[★ Citsonga ★]

Once Again, God Doesn't Mind Abortion:

 

Hosea:

13:16 Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up.

 

Another text regarding this is Numbers 5:11-31, where a priest is to perform a procedure on a woman who is suspected of having an affair. The wording, "make thy belly to swell, and thy thigh to rot," is a bit strange sounding, but various commentaries indicate that this terminology is referring to a miscarriage. And, of course, if a miscarriage is intentionally induced, it is an abortion. Thus, the passage sanctions priestly performed abortions.

[Abiyoyo]

I don't post here often but I am really tired of all the intolerant, arrogant, sanctimonious xians coming here preaching to us EX-xians.

 

But you just joined yesterday I guess a little Xian goes a long way.

 

Welcome

[Abiyoyo]

 

But, unlike you xian blatherskites, we gave up on the bloody, badly written fairy tales in favor of rational thinking and human compassion.

 

The Bible is considered by many as one of the most influential pieces of literature ever. It's been printed in every language. Ir's the most read book of any other books according to polls. It's also the most selling book of all time. A recent poll shows that over 60% say it should be taught in schools, solely as a literary piece.

 

In some schools it is taught as an elective. Here are some articles that explain the why's without traditional Christian rhetoric.

 

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1601845,00.html(2007)

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/04/16/sunday/main1501195.shtml(2006)

[John09]

 

But, unlike you xian blatherskites, we gave up on the bloody, badly written fairy tales in favor of rational thinking and human compassion.

 

The Bible is considered by many as one of the most influential pieces of literature ever. It's been printed in every language. Ir's the most read book of any other books according to polls. It's also the most selling book of all time. A recent poll shows that over 60% say it should be taught in schools, solely as a literary piece.

 

In some schools it is taught as an elective. Here are some articles that explain the why's without traditional Christian rhetoric.

 

 

Do you base quality and fact on majority public opinion? If you lived in the Middle East, the Koran would trump the bible in public favoritism. To suggest that something as flakey as public opinion determines what you consider fact and something that should be taught in schools suggests that you just go with the flow. If next year Harry Potter takes the lead in sales and people suggest it be taught in schools, would you decide to live your life by it?

 

The bible has probably caused more confusion, hatred and murder than any other book.

[ghost_warlock]

Oh, but Discordia didn't you hear; you're taking those passages out of context!

[Abiyoyo]

 

 

 

 

That is the God you worship. Those are horrible stories glorifying hatred, suffering and death and they are in YOUR HOLY BOOK as examples for the faithful to follow. I can't understand how anyone can read these verses and continue to worship something that orders the slaughter of innocents, who delights in the deaths of children. That is nothing but EVIL.

 

Period.

 

I hope this seems logical for you as I see you have the traditional Ex-C^TM problems with the Holy^TM text.

 

1) It's a story written by people and has evolved into inerrant word of God in modern times having people think that every little word was guided by God, which isn't true.

 

Reference from the Book about the Book's Authenticity of itself

21 ¶ Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Put your burnt offerings unto your sacrifices, and eat flesh.

22 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:

23 But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you.

24 But they hearkened not, nor inclined their ear, but walked in the counsels and in the imagination of their evil heart, and went backward, and not forward.

25 Since the day that your fathers came forth out of the land of Egypt unto this day I have even sent unto you all my servants the prophets, daily rising up early and sending them:

26 Yet they hearkened not unto me, nor inclined their ear, but hardened their neck: they did worse than their fathers.

 

So here, we have Jeremiah the Prophet saying God was misrepresented entirely, from the time they came out of Egypt.

 

Does that help any?

 

Apples for apples here. What I bolded pretty much sums the OT up in it's skeptic parts.

 

I'm not sure if you follow that line of though with this scripture. But, what I get out of it is that Israel, Moses, got it all wrong, did it on their own. God sent Prophets to try to reorder things, and they still didn't listen, then they were all conquered until the exile.

[Abiyoyo]

 

 

The bible has probably caused more confusion, hatred and murder than any other book.

 

 

Is it the Book's fault?

[Ouroboros]

I don't post here often but I am really tired of all the intolerant, arrogant, sanctimonious xians coming here preaching to us EX-xians.

 

But you just joined yesterday I guess a little Xian goes a long way.

 

Welcome

It's possible to browse and read the forum without registering. I suspect a lot of new members recently are just that kind.

[Abiyoyo]

I don't post here often but I am really tired of all the intolerant, arrogant, sanctimonious xians coming here preaching to us EX-xians.

 

But you just joined yesterday I guess a little Xian goes a long way.

 

Welcome

It's possible to browse and read the forum without registering. I suspect a lot of new members recently are just that kind.

 

I know, was just joking

[Shyone]

 

 

The bible has probably caused more confusion, hatred and murder than any other book.

 

 

Is it the Book's fault?

That is a really good question.

 

Is the book alive? Can it accept responsibility?

 

Well, it was the men that wrote it, but at this point they are dead and the book remains.

 

Who or what is to blame when a child steps on a landmine years after the manufacturer and person who buried the mine are gone?

 

But the difference is that people use the book for whatever purposes they wish. From persecution of heresy, to Crusades, to Inquisitions, to Witch Trials, to slavery and thousands of other times when humanity has gone off the tracks, men were "following" the Bible - and using it for their own devices, or at least using it according to their beliefs and interpretation.

 

Blind faith is to blame; blind faith is at fault. The bible is the weapon and the bullet, but people aim and fire it.

[Ouroboros]

I know, was just joking

Sorry. I just woke up and still working on my first cup of coffee.

[Abiyoyo]

 

 

The bible has probably caused more confusion, hatred and murder than any other book.

 

 

Is it the Book's fault?

That is a really good question.

 

Is the book alive? Can it accept responsibility?

 

Well, it was the men that wrote it, but at this point they are dead and the book remains.

 

Who or what is to blame when a child steps on a landmine years after the manufacturer and person who buried the mine are gone?

 

But the difference is that people use the book for whatever purposes they wish. From persecution of heresy, to Crusades, to Inquisitions, to Witch Trials, to slavery and thousands of other times when humanity has gone off the tracks, men were "following" the Bible - and using it for their own devices, or at least using it according to their beliefs and interpretation.

 

Blind faith is to blame; blind faith is at fault. The bible is the weapon and the bullet, but people aim and fire it.

 

 

Correct. But, don't forget the good on that spinning wheel either. What about the Mayflower Compact? Fundamental Orders of Connecticut, the first state constitution?

 

What about freedom of speech? Right to bear arms?

 

You don't think these things were inspired by Christian documents?

[John09]

 

 

The bible has probably caused more confusion, hatred and murder than any other book.

 

 

Is it the Book's fault?

Hmmm...let's see...that book has plenty of commands to kill people who don't worship what it considers the one true god. People, like yourself, believe the book and want to do what it commands. This is what you would suggest doing, right? What the book commands?

 

Yes, the book bears some of the responsibility. It influences mental processes and behavior when people take it seriously. How seriously do you take it?

[John09]

 

 

 

 

That is the God you worship. Those are horrible stories glorifying hatred, suffering and death and they are in YOUR HOLY BOOK as examples for the faithful to follow. I can't understand how anyone can read these verses and continue to worship something that orders the slaughter of innocents, who delights in the deaths of children. That is nothing but EVIL.

 

Period.

 

I hope this seems logical for you as I see you have the traditional Ex-C^TM problems with the Holy^TM text.

 

1) It's a story written by people and has evolved into inerrant word of God in modern times having people think that every little word was guided by God, which isn't true.

 

Reference from the Book about the Book's Authenticity of itself

21 ¶ Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Put your burnt offerings unto your sacrifices, and eat flesh.

22 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:

23 But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you.

24 But they hearkened not, nor inclined their ear, but walked in the counsels and in the imagination of their evil heart, and went backward, and not forward.

25 Since the day that your fathers came forth out of the land of Egypt unto this day I have even sent unto you all my servants the prophets, daily rising up early and sending them:

26 Yet they hearkened not unto me, nor inclined their ear, but hardened their neck: they did worse than their fathers.

 

So here, we have Jeremiah the Prophet saying God was misrepresented entirely, from the time they came out of Egypt.

 

Does that help any?

 

Apples for apples here. What I bolded pretty much sums the OT up in it's skeptic parts.

 

I'm not sure if you follow that line of though with this scripture. But, what I get out of it is that Israel, Moses, got it all wrong, did it on their own. God sent Prophets to try to reorder things, and they still didn't listen, then they were all conquered until the exile.

I suppose if someone was really god, he could actually enable someone to understand what he was saying and keep that person from misunderstanding. Instead of doing this, he just calls out another nation to go murder their men, women and children for misunderstanding what he said.

[Vixentrox]

 

 

The bible has probably caused more confusion, hatred and murder than any other book.

 

 

Is it the Book's fault?

How about the Holy Spirit's fault for misguiding everyone?

[Ouroboros]

The bible has probably caused more confusion, hatred and murder than any other book.

Is it the Book's fault?

I would blame the authors and those who influenced its contents.

 

And I would blame people who put their trust in the book and take those things as commands and instructions to them.

 

The book is a copy of the thoughts of corrupt minds, and is used by followers to justify their evil behavior.

[par4dcourse]

As Abi has shown, a good apologetic can spin the wholly babble into meaning almost anything he/she desires.

It's as meaningful as any 2k y.o. collection of fiction.

[chefranden]

 

The Bible is considered by many as one of the most influential pieces of literature ever. It's been printed in every language. Ir's the most read book of any other books according to polls. It's also the most selling book of all time. A recent poll shows that over 60% say it should be taught in schools, solely as a literary piece.

 

I doubt if it is the most read book. From inside experience and from outside experience people in general and Christians in particular are very ignorant of it's contents. The bible is a best seller, but it is used mostly as a prop in the Christian play.

 

http://www.studycenter.com/downloads/Bible_Literacy_Crisis_in_America.pdf

[chefranden]

 

1) It's a story written by people and has evolved into inerrant word of God in modern times having people think that every little word was guided by God, which isn't true.

 

 

So which of the words are true, and how do you know that those particular words are true?

[par4dcourse]

1) It's a story written by people and has evolved into inerrant word of God in modern times having people think that every little word was guided by God, which isn't true.

 

 

So which of the words are true, and how do you know that those particular words are true?

I've got my highlighter out , ready to seperate the shit from the shinola.

[Shyone]

 

 

The bible has probably caused more confusion, hatred and murder than any other book.

 

 

Is it the Book's fault?

That is a really good question.

 

Is the book alive? Can it accept responsibility?

 

Well, it was the men that wrote it, but at this point they are dead and the book remains.

 

Who or what is to blame when a child steps on a landmine years after the manufacturer and person who buried the mine are gone?

 

But the difference is that people use the book for whatever purposes they wish. From persecution of heresy, to Crusades, to Inquisitions, to Witch Trials, to slavery and thousands of other times when humanity has gone off the tracks, men were "following" the Bible - and using it for their own devices, or at least using it according to their beliefs and interpretation.

 

Blind faith is to blame; blind faith is at fault. The bible is the weapon and the bullet, but people aim and fire it.

 

 

Correct. But, don't forget the good on that spinning wheel either. What about the Mayflower Compact? Fundamental Orders of Connecticut, the first state constitution?

 

What about freedom of speech? Right to bear arms?

 

You don't think these things were inspired by Christian documents?

Ah, no.

 

Think back (collectively speaking) to the reasons for the Magna Carta and the form of government (secular and religious) before that time. Divine right of kings, absolute authority, absolute power.

 

I may be placing a sharp dividing point where a dull one should be, but for simplification, let's say that somewhere along that time, people became more important. Kings rights were limited - out of self-protection as much as anything. Property rights became more prominent

 

Now, Priests, Kings and Power are the legacy of the Bible. Well, that and perhaps slavery, lack of women's rights, and... but I digress.

 

You would give Christianity credit for the very thing it abhorred and worked so hard to prevent. Taking credit for human rights and freedom of speech. Everyone used to be "religious" or at least profess belief. The difference is that they began to recognise that they are more than "subjects" or "sheep". They are, in fact, human beings with inherent and inalienable rights.

 

The Enlightenment did not arise because of the church, but in spite of it.

 

Enlightenment was a desire for human affairs to be guided by rationality rather than by faith, superstition, or revelation; a belief in the power of human reason to change society and liberate the individual from the restraints of custom or arbitrary authority; all backed up by a world view increasingly validated by science rather than by religion or tradition.

 

You would also probably give the church credit for discovering that the Sun is the center of the universe. After all, Gallileo was a religious Catholic, wasn't he?

 

Perhaps you would argue that the Bible, the words of Jesus (or whoever), were forgotten by men of religion hungry for power, but I answer that such words would have to be carefully picked from the words used by the church and kings.