Angel Posted September 21, 2005 Share Posted September 21, 2005 I have a question..... When I was in church, they made a HUGE issue of tithing. (must give 10% of your income) They even went as far as telling you that you were in sin and in danger of hell if you did not pay them. THEN, if that is the case, salvation is NOT free, you have weekly/bi-weekly payments???? ANNOUNCER VOICE: Salvation can be yours now for free! Yes, that's right, free for the first month or so, no money down, then it is only $19.95 per week! Yes, that is a bargain isn't it? So come on down and ask for your FREE salvation today! FAST HARD TO UNDERSTAND VOICE: (*Rates can go up or down depending on income. Taking salvation is a contract. You must follow the guidelines and keep the payments or will be forced to punish you by putting you in a spit*) Seriously though, it makes no sense??? So much for "free gift" huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomas Posted September 21, 2005 Share Posted September 21, 2005 Seriously though, it makes no sense??? So much for "free gift" huh? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Christianity is just like drugs. The first fix is always free, but afterwards when you are enslaved, you have to pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunar Shadow Posted September 21, 2005 Share Posted September 21, 2005 Christianity is just like drugs. The first fix is always free, but afterwards when you are enslaved, you have to pay. Yeah really, I can't even begin to count how much cash I threw away in the offering plate. I can say it is in the thousands easy. It’s kinda sad and depressing at the same time. I wonder if I can sue the church for theft or fraud now that I see the lies they spun to finesse the cash out of my wallet oh well there are some lessons in life that ain't free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pug Posted September 21, 2005 Share Posted September 21, 2005 tithe is now called "love offering" in my part of the world (Malaysia). no need 10% ~ that's OT. Give from your heart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunar Shadow Posted September 21, 2005 Share Posted September 21, 2005 tithe is now called "love offering" in my part of the world (Malaysia). no need 10% ~ that's OT. Give from your heart. what if my heart say no?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomas Posted September 21, 2005 Share Posted September 21, 2005 what if my heart say no?? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Then, they will probably preach to you and motivate you (and manipulate you) until your heart says yes. A love offering is just another abusive Christian concept. And now dear congregation, we will take in the love offering. Remember how much Christ loves you, remember that he gave his life for you. Don't you want to love him too? You can do so by participating in our love offering. Bow your head and ask him how much he wants you to give. Remember, he loves you so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunar Shadow Posted September 21, 2005 Share Posted September 21, 2005 Our NT church did a serious Malachi tithe threat every few months or so when more cash was needed, but normally it was called a love offering. Usually the love offering is accompanied by the following, "Don't let your god be your wallet. If you have problems giving, your money is your god. Dig deep, god is a GIVER, he wants you to be a giver. If you've got money to spend on cable tv and vacations, but not enough to give, your money is your god. Dig deep and watch what god can do for you." You know what god did with our "digging deep"? Nothing! The whole god/money issue stole away from our retirement nest egg. our children, ourselves, our LIVES. Man, I feel so freaking stupid and I guilted my husband into 10% every two weeks for two years. The church looked gorgeous and had a kick ass stereo/big screen TV system, in the meantime, our home needed some serious fixing up, but we just had to put "god first" or you really don't "love god", you love mammon. don't you just love the guilt trips the put on you at church?? that was one I hated because you know you were gonna give more than you could afford the they start listing off shit like cable TV and shit just to make sure you were OK with God. and the line they they always fed was that "whatever you give will coe back to you in geater amounts somewhere else in your life" yeah BULLSHIT!! there were times I gave more than I could and I ended up missing some bills because of it. Did gawd fix my credit HELL NO! WTF!!! sorry I am ranting again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pug Posted September 21, 2005 Share Posted September 21, 2005 what if my heart say no?? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Jester, if your heart says no, then no need to give. (in my church anyway) But usually they'll feed you a verse or two, but generally no big pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomas Posted September 21, 2005 Share Posted September 21, 2005 ...... but generally no big pressure. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> But there is a pressure?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunar Shadow Posted September 21, 2005 Share Posted September 21, 2005 Jester, if your heart says no, then no need to give. (in my church anyway) But usually they'll feed you a verse or two, but generally no big pressure. Ahhh but pressure none the less... Religion is big business it brings in huge amounts of money every flipin' year one of the churches I used to go to (and still do due to concessions made to live where I am living) brings in damn near a million bucks a month I mean shit here people are giving these bullshit organizations money where my wife and I (w/ or 2 kids) are struggling to stay afloat. That is what is fucked up with this world. People give to churches (so they can buy up more real estate) while the truly needy are living on the street and in homeless shelters. Damn it I am ranting again this must be a touchie subject that and I am tired as hell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pug Posted September 21, 2005 Share Posted September 21, 2005 Ahhh but pressure none the less... Religion is big business it brings in huge amounts of money every flipin' year one of the churches I used to go to (and still do due to concessions made to live where I am living) brings in damn near a million bucks a month I mean shit here people are giving these bullshit organizations money where my wife and I (w/ or 2 kids) are struggling to stay afloat. That is what is fucked up with this world. People give to churches (so they can buy up more real estate) while the truly needy are living on the street and in homeless shelters. Damn it I am ranting again this must be a touchie subject that and I am tired as hell <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Agreed. It is big business. Over here, we're building a Convention Centre the size of a stadium! It's a big, sad problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomas Posted September 21, 2005 Share Posted September 21, 2005 <{POST_SNAPBACK}> By the way PUG. Welcome to this site. I hope you will like the place and that we will have some interesting discussions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mako Posted September 21, 2005 Share Posted September 21, 2005 I like the way the ancient Teutonic religion worked ....Worshipped in sacred groves (no church building to keep up) , no sacred alter items, and all the priests had to have a regular craft (such as blacksmith, carpenter, cobbler, etc) and was not renumerated for their priestly duties :ohmy: ! They had no tithes ! I guess you could say their religion was free (unless you were the unlucky schmoe that got sacrified to Woden before the battle). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pug Posted September 21, 2005 Share Posted September 21, 2005 By the way PUG. Welcome to this site. I hope you will like the place and that we will have some interesting discussions. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hey Thomas, I think this is da ultimate place to test my faith and relationship with God! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pug Posted September 21, 2005 Share Posted September 21, 2005 "Love offering" is nothing new. It's just a christian catch phrase for "donation", one that you are pressured to give. For instance, my mom used to do a women's luncheon every year at the church. They always had someone collecting a "love offering". That is what the table would say, "Love offering, suggested donation $5." In other words, pay $5 for this "free" lunch you were invited to so we can proselytize to you. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yep, Madam M!!! I used to feel quite un-comfortable too (knowing the code; love offering = donation). Now I just give what I can and think it's towards God's stewards to provide me with His Word. Hey, they gotta eat too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pug Posted September 21, 2005 Share Posted September 21, 2005 So we're guinea pigs? Test your faith by hanging with the apostates? I feel so, so used and abused! Kidding pug, if you need us for self-gratification so that you can say, "I can hang with the heathens and remain true to my beliefs." Thats fine by me, I won't judge you. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Aaaah... SerenityNow... apologies. No what i mean is, i will not judge you, lest i be judged. I'm serving God by hanging out with you ex-Christians. Cos i got converted so late in life! Or maybe too on-fire now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted September 21, 2005 Share Posted September 21, 2005 tithe is now called "love offering" in my part of the world (Malaysia). no need 10% ~ that's OT. Give from your heart. My experience was similar. Tithing was not that big of a deal; it was certainly not used as a threat against salvation if not performed. I went to a bible baptist church for about a year however that was all tithing and gospel/gospel and tithing. The preacher sounded like a broken record. Bottom line; I felt guilty about a lot of things as a christian, but tithing was not one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted September 21, 2005 Share Posted September 21, 2005 And now dear congregation, we will take in the love offering. Remember how much Christ loves you, remember that he gave his life for you. Don't you want to love him too? You can do so by participating in our love offering. Bow your head and ask him how much he wants you to give. Remember, he loves you so much. On second thought, I did get this sermon quite often. I guess it just never hit home with me. I heard it from childhood and was probably jaded to it. That, and I was raised with an emphasis on non legalism, which I guess overrode the tithing issue for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomas Posted September 21, 2005 Share Posted September 21, 2005 YES!!!! That is exactly how it is. (Great line, might I throw it in my sig line?) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Feel free to use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted September 21, 2005 Share Posted September 21, 2005 Agreed. It is big business. Over here, we're building a Convention Centre the size of a stadium! It's a big, sad problem. Really? I would be very interested in hearing more about the influence of christianity in Malasia. Is the country divided by muslim and christian regions? Are the christian regions predominantly catholic or protestant? Are followers devout or is it just a cultural footnote for most? I guess these are questions for another thread. If you're willing to answer a few honest questions like these I can start another thread. I promise not to judge your answers. Just give me the ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted September 21, 2005 Share Posted September 21, 2005 God robbers never prosper!" Wow, that's an easy one to falsify. All you need to do is point to Bill Gates. Richest man in the US (or at least was once) and an atheist to boot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel Posted September 21, 2005 Author Share Posted September 21, 2005 I remember all the guilt I used to feel when we were not able to put in the plate....I remember feeling that my spiritual life was in danger because we just did not have enough...would start thinking.."Maybe I should not have bought that sandwich on the way home the other night...maybe I could have lived with out this and that..." It was a vicious cycle. It would make me think when we would see the pastor in a caddy, and here we are in our rusted clunker barely making it to church, yet it was demanded that we pay. I remember one time in a small "Jesus Only" church, the minister said from the pulpit that all the tithes go to him, then in turn he gives 10% of that to the church to live off of. It pissed me off. I was under the impression that most of it went toward expenses like lights, water, etc...and yes SOME for the minister, but most?? I know a minister who does not take any money from the church because they are not in it for the money...which to me is a rare find in a minister. But you will find that most are in it for the money and it has nothing to do with the people that depend on them for spiritual guidance. My mom in law gave 2,000 dollars in one shot to a church once, because she felt that they needed it....makes me sick all the money that they make by guilt trippin' you into it. I wish there was a way that they can be sued. You think you are giving to the poor when in reality you are just paying for a new sound system or a swimming pool for the pastor. One year in my old church, the elders and whoever else is the "higher up" decided to buy the minister a new Envoy...and those are not cheap. It pissed me off because there was NO vote and it was OUR money (the church) that paid for it. Again, they drive the nice cars, yet they take from the people that could use a newer car. UGH!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pug Posted September 21, 2005 Share Posted September 21, 2005 Really? I would be very interested in hearing more about the influence of christianity in Malasia. Is the country divided by muslim and christian regions? Are the christian regions predominantly catholic or protestant? Are followers devout or is it just a cultural footnote for most? I guess these are questions for another thread. If you're willing to answer a few honest questions like these I can start another thread. I promise not to judge your answers. Just give me the ok. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> No new churches (or for that matter Buddhist or Hindu temples) are now allowed in Malaysia. Of course Mosques are sprouting up all over the country. My church is in an office building!! Most new churches in Malaysia are. But there are still Churches here ~ built before 1950's. I think there are more protestants than catholics. More catholics (if not all) in Philippines!! Start another thread if you like ~ i welcome your questions and errrr.. fire hose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pug Posted September 21, 2005 Share Posted September 21, 2005 I still know alot of scriptures and I can slap a couple together pretty coherently. If I give you some words, will you send me a love donation? have to be bona-fide pastor ~ slapping together a few quotes will not do. You'll get over it. We all do. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I pray not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pug Posted September 21, 2005 Share Posted September 21, 2005 My last words to god, "Please God please, help me to keep my faith!" Well, here I am. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> "Please God please, help me to keep my faith!" Well, here I am. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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