Evolution Questions

[Super FZL]

Look guys I'm not trying to sound rude here, but why are we answering Monfang? It's plainly obvious that he does not, at all, have any interest in Evolution. All he wants to do in this thread is to "prove" that Evolution is false. He's trolling, plain and simple. He's posting random links from various creationist sites, rather than providing any honest questions or bothering to learn anything.

Nothing we say to him will make him change his mind at all, he's hell-bent on "disproving" Evolution, be it by pointing out prior-frauds, which were discovered by scientists(Hey monfang, how do you explain away all of the Creationist hoaxes? Hmmmmm? I thought bearing false-witness was a sin?) Or by pointing out supposed issues with Evolution. He's a troll, nothing more, nothing less.

 

We have given sufficient answers and now he is grasping at straws. Look, creationists, if you want to believe against evolution, do it. Just stop trolling our forums with your nonsensical babble and apologetic Ridgenet links.

[bird28]

nvm

[Midnight-mindwanderings]

Yeah unless he starts acknowledging our responses in some way I am not going to continue. As I said before. Either follow up the answers you get with more questions for clarity, find something specific in our answers that you think is inaccurate or concede the point. Changing the subject every time is cowardice and ignoring all the work going into the answers is rude.

[Ancey]

Going back to how humans evolved the ability to see rape as bad because it is about pleasure instead of reproduction.

 

Why don't dolphins have the same idea when they have sex for pleasure and are often seen raping and killing both dolphins and humans for reasons far from hunger? even kidnapping females.

 

http://www.broowaha....s-a-hidden-evil

 

Edited to add link so you don't complain about lack of a source.

 

 

Most people would take that as evidence against objective morality and therefore evidence against god. But to answer your question, people live in much more complex societies than dolphins. Early tribal humans probably lived in a culture similar to the one of the dolphins live in now.

 

We're also not Dolphins. All sorts of weird things happen in nature with other species that don't happen with us: it does not mean we should imitate other species this way as we are simply NOT those species.

 

True- True.

 

Even in the Bible- the rape of a woman is seen as a proposal of marriage, pretty much. (the rapist should marry his victim because he took her virginity, and the father of the woman should enforce this)

 

Shifting Morality.

 

Ya also know that child prostitution and the abandonment of children used to be popular in pre-industrial ages? No abortions, just drop the baby off in a river or something. Children used to also be tried as adults for petty crimes (where hanging was the punishment for stealing).

 

Man, even our evolution has done strange because of things like rape; did you know large amounts of Finnish people carry genes that are shared with certain Nomadic Asians? Likely because a long time ago, Asian Nomads came to the area and had fun with the woman for a bit. It's actually rather evident in that some Finns lack a full double-eyelid. Take a look in a yearbook with a bunch of Pure-blood Finns- many have the appearance of a monolid. (that's my personal observation, anyway, but there is a gene shared between the two groups.) Humans have done all sorts of debauchery, but as our knowledge and technology and ability to survive increases, our animosity decreases, because we have found it to be inhumane or violent or infringing on human rights.

 

But really, you failed to answer at all to the huge post I put up a couple of pages back. Why is that?

 

And there is far more than C^14 dating, there are several several methods of dating. And if all of them give the same answer- there ya' go.

 

And as for the mythological creatures: I doubt dinosaurs breathed fire (maybe had breath that burned the hairs off your face), very few flew, and those tended to be smaller, so that seems to debunks dragons as dinosaurs.

 

And have you looked at Chinese Dragons at all? All the components of a Chinese Dragon are very modern elements pulled from modern animals (like elks, rabbits). Wyrms are based off of snakes, really.

 

The best way to debunk Evolution, imo: Find a Pre-Cambrian Rabbit. If you can find a modern animal in a Pre-Cambrian Fossil layer, it will debunk evolution so fast Darwin's head will spin in his grave. It would be in every scientific newspaper, every single evolutionary scientist will want to see it, and Evolution as we know it would be debunked.

 

But it hasn't. Creation as been debunked, and yet it continues to spit in the face of not only biology, but Geology, Astronomy, Ancient History, and all sorts of scientific feilds.

 

Think about this, if we have stars that are even a million light years away, and we know they are that far away, how could we possible see them? If they are a million light years away, it took a million years for the light to reach us- and we can see light from stars that are billions of light years away. Either a God decided to confuse us and send the light towards us early, or perhaps the universe is billions of years old.

[Thackerie]

Look guys I'm not trying to sound rude here, but why are we answering Monfang? It's plainly obvious that he does not, at all, have any interest in Evolution. All he wants to do in this thread is to "prove" that Evolution is false. He's trolling, plain and simple. He's posting random links from various creationist sites, rather than providing any honest questions or bothering to learn anything.

Nothing we say to him will make him change his mind at all, he's hell-bent on "disproving" Evolution, be it by pointing out prior-frauds, which were discovered by scientists(Hey monfang, how do you explain away all of the Creationist hoaxes? Hmmmmm? I thought bearing false-witness was a sin?) Or by pointing out supposed issues with Evolution. He's a troll, nothing more, nothing less.

 

 

I second that opinion.

[Ouroboros]

Debunk this please.

 

http://www.ridgenet..../sage/v6i8f.htm

 

And this..

 

http://www.ridgenet.net/~do_while/sage/v7i11f.htm

“Few subjects have captured our imagination as entirely as the lost world of the dinosaur. But what if dinosaurs had not vanished entirely? What if today, hidden somewhere on Earth, there’s a mysterious land where dinosaurs still not only exist, but coexist with man?” - Michael Eisner, Head of Walt Disney

 

Um... Dinosaurs actually do exist still. They're called birds in everyday speech.

[Ouroboros]

Change to point above. (couldn't edit cause I double posted by accident. I meant to say "dinosaur bones where found in human settlements where animals where kept."

That is sooooo frigging easy to explain! Use your brain a little.

 

10,000 years from now, they will excavate some of our cities, and they will discover that we had dinosaur bones in some cities too. Can you figure out how?

[Vigile]

Oh, you are doomed, boy, doomed to a life of abject and total impenetrable mental density.

 

 

But of course you are well aware that god, that sneaky little devil, has purposely blinded you with worldly wisdom and what not?

[Vigile]

Okay, I will ask this question. In the theory of evolution, explain how both the male and female species evolve together? If evolution is the way I understand it, then in theory species shouldn't evolve together in both genders. Where in evolution does it explain compassion for others? If we are a species of survival of the fittest why do we help those in need? Where did our core instincts of right and wrong come from? If it came from "common sense" or man, who are we to say what is right and wrong? With billions of people on the earth we all have different aspects of right and wrong. Some believe child molestation is okay, along with rape and murder, and most do not.

 

Oy vey!

[Vigile]

Actually, it's 5 sciences that can cover evolution and most of the scientist who are under them believe in creationism.

 

And what's with the ones at the bottom or the ones that appear out of nowhere, or the ones with no bar to show how long they existed?

 

Quick question for you, are you blissful?

[Ancey]

Okay, I will ask this question. In the theory of evolution, explain how both the male and female species evolve together? If evolution is the way I understand it, then in theory species shouldn't evolve together in both genders.

 

How did I miss this?

 

 

Males and females are NOT separate species. I already defined what a species is on this thread, so you can look at that.

 

And actually, males and females evolve to display something called sexual dimorphism. But they will always be able to breed with each-other. They evolve together, even with sexual dimorphism- one gender will NEVER rapidly evolve to the point it can't reproduce with the opposite gender: if one member of a gender can't reproduce with its opposite- it doesn't and removes itself from the gene pool.

 

As an example of sexual dimorphism: human males and females have selectively bred each other. Yes, they have. breasts are a pointless thing, really- most mammals do not have permanently swollen mammary glands: but human males have found these traits attractive, it's a sign of fertility and health. Males are also more muscular- it shows they can perhaps be a better provider, in better health, and so it looks damn sexy when a guy is toned up...

 

genders may evolve slight differences by sexual selection, but they don't evolve into separate species: to claim otherwise is just, plainly, stupid and un-educated.

[ilovemybrain]

? . Some believe child molestation is okay, along with rape and murder, and most do not.

 

and you're saying this god of yours made people that way?he must be a real asshole.

 

Also, he intelligently designed 98% of all species to be so badly adapted that they became extinct?

[Vigile]

If god created this mess, he's a dick:

 

[Mutate]

The Devil created that, through the fall of Adam and Eve. That lion is sinning in his absence of God.

[Vigile]

I guess this animals are saved then.

 

[Kris]

I recently heard how some creationist group took the current population and then devolved it back in time to conclude that to support the current number of humans on the earth that two individuals from 6 thousand years ago were reponsible for all of us--- I chewed on this for a bit, and immediately found some holes in their theory. The biggest one has to do with BIRTH CONTROL. If birth control had not been invented, the current population on earth would be exponentially greater-- something that would HAVE to be taken into account when making a hypothesis like this. I would suspect that including all of the proposed people that would have been born on the earth without birth control would push the original date of when humans popped up on earth back MUCH farther than 6000 years.

 

It is extremely easy to hear things like this creationist dribble and assume that it is true-- but good science takes into account all variables and conditions in order to comet to a conclusion. That is what the rest of us should do as well.

[Ouroboros]

Okay, I will ask this question. In the theory of evolution, explain how both the male and female species evolve together? If evolution is the way I understand it, then in theory species shouldn't evolve together in both genders. Where in evolution does it explain compassion for others? If we are a species of survival of the fittest why do we help those in need? Where did our core instincts of right and wrong come from? If it came from "common sense" or man, who are we to say what is right and wrong? With billions of people on the earth we all have different aspects of right and wrong. Some believe child molestation is okay, along with rape and murder, and most do not.

It would take too long to explain the biopsychosocial factors that play into all this. I've tried to explain this many times before, but it's impossible. You have to start picking up some books to read, or watch some educational videos (preferably not made by anti-evolution propaganda institutes).

 

It can be explain and understood, but it takes time to get the whole picture. It's not easy. It's complex. But not undefined.

[agjohnson]

Come on... how can anyone miss that this is a troll at this point...

[Ouroboros]

Jeremy Howard is a troll too?

[Monfang]

I wrote a really long page that was good.. your buggy website ruined it..

 

Fine. I give up. I have better luck talking to a brick wall. Atleast it might have an open mind.

 

You complain about us being closed off to the world.. yet you blind and deafen yourself to the world when it screams proof of our "religion".

 

Proof of a worldwide flood? The Sedimentary layers. They take millions of years to do that. Mt. St. Helen did it in a few days. But the fossils are dated to be really old. The dating techniques are faulty and full of guesses and the scientists themselves are biases to evidence at the dig sites that show proof of Dinosaurs and humans living together.

 

If you ever get that tingling in the back of your head again, about what if you are wrong, Google me. You can find me easily.

 

Open you eyes... the world is leaving you behind.

 

Mod, delete this account. I'll find a place where people have a little bit more intelligence and maturity.

[Shyone]

Debunk this please.

 

http://www.ridgenet..../sage/v6i8f.htm

 

And this..

 

http://www.ridgenet.net/~do_while/sage/v7i11f.htm

“Few subjects have captured our imagination as entirely as the lost world of the dinosaur. But what if dinosaurs had not vanished entirely? What if today, hidden somewhere on Earth, there’s a mysterious land where dinosaurs still not only exist, but coexist with man?” - Michael Eisner, Head of Walt Disney

 

Um... Dinosaurs actually do exist still. They're called birds in everyday speech.

I would venture to say that there are several species of animals that have survived into modern times that also existed in very similar form in pre-cambrian times. There may be modifications, but the aligator/crocodile is very old. I would imagine that, even beyond shell fish, bacteria and mold there are other living things that have existed more or less unchanged.

 

Dinosaur almost by definition includes only animals that are now extinct but have descendents that are modified enough that they scarcely resemble their ancestors. Birds are an example. So are humans.

[Ouroboros]

I wrote a really long page that was good.. your buggy website ruined it..

No, it was God stopping you from making a fool out of yourself... wait, he failed already.

 

Open you eyes... the world is leaving you behind.

Yeah, the world is going stir-crazy.

 

Mod, delete this account. I'll find a place where people have a little bit more intelligence and maturity.

Nah, I like this thread. I want it to stay. And who knows, perhaps you'd like to come one day.

[Ancey]

 

Proof of a worldwide flood? The Sedimentary layers. They take millions of years to do that. Mt. St. Helen did it in a few days. But the fossils are dated to be really old. The dating techniques are faulty and full of guesses and the scientists themselves are biases to evidence at the dig sites that show proof of Dinosaurs and humans living together.

 

Proof against a world-wide flood: the extreme amount of marine life. the mixture of fresh and salt water would have wiped out almost all marine life (because that change is toxic to them).

 

Sedimentary layers are indeed laid down in millions of years- and they had, actually, a few billions years to do this.Surprising, also, that fossils we do find are laid down in very specific orders in specific layers of sediment...

 

Again: to debunk evolution, find a Pre-Cambrian Rabbit. Seriously, that is all you need to do. Pre-Cambrian Rabbit. A Rabbit in a layer of rock that would otherwise be dated Pre-Cambrian, and can be dated to that time-frame, the same as the rest of the surrounding rock.

 

But, you are now just going away- have had nothing to say to the big chunky posts I have left explaining evolution in basic forms... Just given rather unconvincing arguments for creationism... I'd like to see a picture or diagram of the dinosaurs in human encampment... and explanation as to why no small dinosaurs survived on the ark, even when they were likely very fit to begin with...

[Shyone]

Proof of a worldwide flood? The Sedimentary layers. They take millions of years to do that. Mt. St. Helen did it in a few days. But the fossils are dated to be really old. The dating techniques are faulty and full of guesses and the scientists themselves are biases to evidence at the dig sites that show proof of Dinosaurs and humans living together.

 

I don't suppose you'll read this, but sedimentary layers are dated by the elements found in them, and there are certain phenomena that zero the age. Volcanic eruption is one. By comparing the amounts of certain isotopes of various chemicals (such as argon trapped in volcanic crystals) they can date volcanic eruptions precisely - including Mount St. Helens and more ancient eruptions - some of which are historical and can verify the dating techniques.

 

There aren't guesses involved, but rather precise scientific measurements that have been verified. Ardi, for example, was dated by precisely this method (the link explains how argon trapped in volcanic layers is used to date eruptions).

 

Interestingly, attempts to refute argon decay dating only come from the Institute of Creation Research, who misused the techniques and got faulty results. I suspect they did it intentionally, and that would be fraud, exactly what creationists, and only creationists, have to resort to.

 

It is shameful to have to resort to fraud, deception and lying to keep the mythology of genesis appearing scientific.

 

"We'll do it wrong and show them that their methods are faulty!" And that's the difference between scientists and creationists. Ironically, good evidence of "humans and dinosaurs coexisting", if it existed, would change scientific theory, but it hasn't been found.

 

Talkorigins.org has an archive that presents the data and shows the types of distortion and fraud used by creationists (you) to further their biblical agenda. Anomalous fossils?

 

Oh, and did you write this?:

 

Hi, I am a big creationist I'm only is 7th grade and i can give you and your evolution buddies a talk about creation and how your whole evolution theory is dumb. If you really wanted to know you would have to keep asking yourself where everything came from. So have a good day, and remember how dunb evolution is!!!!!

[Shyone]

Sedimentary layers are indeed laid down in millions of years- and they had, actually, a few billions years to do this.Surprising, also, that fossils we do find are laid down in very specific orders in specific layers of sediment...

 

One of the silliest explanations for the marvelous distribution of fossils in the order of their existence in the sedimentary layers is that dinosaurs were heavier and sank further into the sediment of the world-wide flood.

 

And I suppose ferns were heavier than flowering plants.

 

Laughable!