Where Do Religions Come From

[Guest Perfect Insanity]

First, I am sure I understand your point. And it's a fair question. But the thing is we really DON'T know what God can or cannot do. I've heard a lot of rumors (from people and by people), but nobody seems to really know. And I don't know either. All I know is that He loves deeply and grieves deeply. That must mean that He cannot do anything about this suffering that WE are causing to ourselves. I am sure that He does feel their pain. And may I add that He feels it much more than any human would. His feelings are much deeper. And I am sure that He is grieved at OUR actions!

 

It's so easy to blame somebody else. It's always what people do. What if everybody stopped blaming someone who can SUPPOSEDLY make it all better DO SOMETHING THEMSELVES instead? It's so easy to pass the buck. It's so easy to feel compassion for a child, but is it as easy to take him into our homes? No. We won't go as far. We want somebody else to fix our problems.

 

I do believe that we blame God for everything and that we blame Him unjustly (out of ignorance, out of not understanding and out of people's incorrect teachings about what God can or cannot do.)

 

Technically, people should act like adults, stop bickering with each other and take care of the planet. But instead, we have a whole bunch of selfish children running around, hoarding their toys and expecting a mommy to come home and fix their mess.

 

God knows people are selfish, he knows that there will always be some people who suffer, even if it is our faults. My point is, he is the only one who can do something about it. If he's all knowing, he knows they ain't gonna be fed. If he feels their pain and loves them, he WILL do something. Why let the innocent suffer just because of the selfish actions of humanity? Why let the innocent pay for the sins of the wicked?

[Guest Valk0010]

I like the way you think.

 

How do you explain how, if God is good, and personal enough to interfere in certain situations, and even talk to you, how could he let the innocent suffer?

 

 

All I know at this point is that it has to be this way. But He suffers with us. He feels everything we feel because He is linked to us. (That's what He told me anyways) That's how He knows all our thoughts. That's why He doesn't judge us as people do. He feels your disappointments and your hurts. He hurts for you. He knows why you do the things you do. He knows why you act bad to certain people because He knows how they hurt you...and stuff like that..

 

I doubt it. If he feels everything we feel, knows us better than we know ourselves, suffers with us and hurts for us.... and he still doesn't intervene.... well, he's an asshole.

 

Look at this kid.

 

 

Does God feel his pain? Does God feel everything that this kid feels? Does he? If so.... WHY THE FUCK DOESN'T HE DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT? He's God, right? Can't be too hard to make sure people get something to eat.

 

First, I am sure I understand your point. And it's a fair question. But the thing is we really DON'T know what God can or cannot do. I've heard a lot of rumors (from people and by people), but nobody seems to really know. And I don't know either. All I know is that He loves deeply and grieves deeply. That must mean that He cannot do anything about this suffering that WE are causing to ourselves. I am sure that He does feel their pain. And may I add that He feels it much more than any human would. His feelings are much deeper. And I am sure that He is grieved at OUR actions!

 

It's so easy to blame somebody else. It's always what people do. What if everybody stopped blaming someone who can SUPPOSEDLY make it all better DO SOMETHING THEMSELVES instead? It's so easy to pass the buck. It's so easy to feel compassion for a child, but is it as easy to take him into our homes? No. We won't go as far. We want somebody else to fix our problems.

 

I do believe that we blame God for everything and that we blame Him unjustly (out of ignorance, out of not understanding and out of people's incorrect teachings about what God can or cannot do.)

 

Technically, people should act like adults, stop bickering with each other and take care of the planet. But instead, we have a whole bunch of selfish children running around, hoarding their toys and expecting a mommy to come home and fix their mess.

I am sorry, if you already addressed this, but I haven't focused on the thread closely. Would your definition of god mean then, he has the most power, not that is he is all powerful. If you believe that, what makes god different then superman.

[Guest Perfect Insanity]

I like the way you think.

 

How do you explain how, if God is good, and personal enough to interfere in certain situations, and even talk to you, how could he let the innocent suffer?

 

 

All I know at this point is that it has to be this way. But He suffers with us. He feels everything we feel because He is linked to us. (That's what He told me anyways) That's how He knows all our thoughts. That's why He doesn't judge us as people do. He feels your disappointments and your hurts. He hurts for you. He knows why you do the things you do. He knows why you act bad to certain people because He knows how they hurt you...and stuff like that..

 

I doubt it. If he feels everything we feel, knows us better than we know ourselves, suffers with us and hurts for us.... and he still doesn't intervene.... well, he's an asshole.

 

Look at this kid.

 

 

Does God feel his pain? Does God feel everything that this kid feels? Does he? If so.... WHY THE FUCK DOESN'T HE DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT? He's God, right? Can't be too hard to make sure people get something to eat.

 

First, I am sure I understand your point. And it's a fair question. But the thing is we really DON'T know what God can or cannot do. I've heard a lot of rumors (from people and by people), but nobody seems to really know. And I don't know either. All I know is that He loves deeply and grieves deeply. That must mean that He cannot do anything about this suffering that WE are causing to ourselves. I am sure that He does feel their pain. And may I add that He feels it much more than any human would. His feelings are much deeper. And I am sure that He is grieved at OUR actions!

 

It's so easy to blame somebody else. It's always what people do. What if everybody stopped blaming someone who can SUPPOSEDLY make it all better DO SOMETHING THEMSELVES instead? It's so easy to pass the buck. It's so easy to feel compassion for a child, but is it as easy to take him into our homes? No. We won't go as far. We want somebody else to fix our problems.

 

I do believe that we blame God for everything and that we blame Him unjustly (out of ignorance, out of not understanding and out of people's incorrect teachings about what God can or cannot do.)

 

Technically, people should act like adults, stop bickering with each other and take care of the planet. But instead, we have a whole bunch of selfish children running around, hoarding their toys and expecting a mommy to come home and fix their mess.

I am sorry, if you already addressed this, but I haven't focused on the thread closely. Would your definition of god mean then, he has the most power, not that is he is all powerful. If you believe that, what makes god different then superman.

 

Also, if I may add to the question, if he's not all powerful, where did he come from?

[DayLight]

You say you've believed in God ever since you were "aware of yourself." What is your concept of being aware of oneself and when did it occur? If by this you mean in infancy when you were getting your bearings together and understood that you were a being living in an exterior world, etc., I find this to be unreliable. How could you possibly remember what you were thinking at that time? Or that you were thinking much about anything?

 

Then you sort of contradict yourself by saying you were "brought up to believe in God." Granted, you were answering a question about more specific beliefs about God, but how do you know this idea of always having believed in God is a figment of your imagination?

 

I just skimmed over most of this thread, but do I take it correctly that you've never seriously questioned if there was a god in the first place? Are you afraid to do this?

 

 

Aware of myself meant I was about 7 years old. Of course my parents told me about God and that's how I came to believe in Him. But ever since they did (probably before 7), I was a believer. I specifically remember a revival service when I was 9 yrs old and how I wanted to officially become God's child (you had to do a public confession for that). But it was only a technicality for me. Because in my heart I already was for quite some time. I remember being serious about God ever since grade school. For example, they made us wear a star which meant (I've been told) that there is no God. And I refused. (but my parents would have been fine with me wearing it since it wasn't that important since I was only a child.) It seems (based on my observations) that I was more strict than my parents when it came to our faith.

 

I never questioned existence of God because I never felt the need to. There was never evidence presented to me personally to convince me that He did not exist.

 

And besides, I LOVE believing in a loving God. I came to the conclusion that knowing the truth is not that necessary. (Nobody knows it anyways). But believing something NICE will make your life BETTER, regardless of the truth. So me knowing God (the way I know Him now) makes me very very happy. So why change? Why try to convince myself otherwise?

 

Some people complain that some movies are not real (too nice in other words). Well, I love that about movies. Who wants real? Who needs life if it's bad? We already are stuck with living it. Do we have to watch it too? (and be depressed even more)

 

I was thinking about life and purpose of life. And in my personal opinion, life has to have something good in it in order to make it worth living. Otherwise, what's the point of living? (The good could be either some good things during this life or at least a hope for a good afterlife).

[flockoff]

If many people are saying that someone is talking to them, I usually believe that there is something to it. They couldn't all be lying. I guess you are saying that it could be something like a hallusinations or a brain disorder or something (internal) that enables them to hear “someone” talk? But how can there be a pattern if it's just random health problems? People believe in coincidences. But what if there are too many and they emerge into a pattern of question and answer, asking and a response... Should we still claim it's just random coincidences? Shouldn't we realize that something unusual is going on?

 

Health problems are not random. They have specific pathologies that allow medical scientists to study and treat them accordingly. All humans have 99.9% the same DNA. This DNA encodes for amino acids, proteins, cells, neurons, sensory organs, all very much the same and functioning to interpret stimuli experienced living under the same sun, breathing the same air, drinking the same water ... and also the more complex things, fearing death, loving others, desiring wealth, feeling guilt, and so many other things. So naturally we would interpret these things in similar ways as to cause a pattern. In a microcosmic way you could compare it to the fact that many of us see puddles in the road on a hot summer day when there aren't any, or see a pencil magically break when placed in a glass of water. It does not verify or suggest that those interpretations of the experiences are correct.

 

What do say for people who claim to been abducted by extraterrestrials, or to have seen bigfoot, or that Elvis is still alive? Are there too many of them about for them all to be lying or mistaken? God has more believers, certainly, but the likelihood of experiencing those things is somewhat proportional to those that claim to have done so. So do you give credence to all those things, or do you admit at least that it's possible that although they were indeed experiencing the same actual thing, it was their common thought processes and brain functions that formed the pattern?

 

"A pattern of question and answer, asking and a response" -- you didn't write this clearly. Do you mean that individually people talk to God and get answers? That's never been proven. All we have of it is anecdotal evidence. Do you mean collectively it fits a pattern, with everyone having their own little piece of a gigantic jigsaw puzzle that we might never finish? Then by what standards do you judge what really belongs to that puzzle? And doesn't a god who reveals himself like this, resulting in holy wars and families getting torn apart sound kind of messed up and evil when you really think about it?

 

I suppose I would have to hear at least a few people with those problems (internal) telling me how their “unhealthy brain” has helped them, has resolved issues for them, has encouraged them exactly when they needed it, has answered some of their questions to which they didn't have answers before. If I heard some of these stories, and that it ended up just being people's brain disorder, then I might start doubting (maybe).

 

I don't necessarily claim that believing in God is the product of an unhealthy mind. But I believe that most of the people in the developed world who claim to have experienced something directly from God, at the level you describe, have only really felt this way sporadically ... maybe two or three times in their whole life. From that I deduce that they are just healthy people with a common misconception of similar experiences.

 

I had those experiences myself ... things happened that "I KNEW" had to come from God, but in retrospect, there were perfectly logical explanations for. If you told us about your experiences, I'm sure we could logically explain them, but if you're determined to think they're from God ... we can't touch you.

 

Yes people ascribe to God what He does not do. That doesn't mean that He doesn't do anything at all. Yes some claims are false. But some are still true. So ok, God did not cause the volcano to erupt. But He did help to guide me to a certain person. Or He did not cause you to get fired in this case. But it's possible (if necessary) He may cause you to get fired in another circumstance. In other words, just because He was not involved in this instance, doesn't mean that He is NEVER involved in such instances (or in particular ones.)

 

Again ... can't touch you. That's the problem. I could send you to a shrink and prove to you that God didn't lead you to a certain person. I could show you my attendance record at work from my last job and prove it wasn't God who got me fired. Theoretically, I could knock down one example after another, and you'd just keep moving the goal post and saying, "yeah, well what about this?" Your evidence isn't holding much water if it needs every unexplained thing in the universe as a backup plan.

 

Part of me wants to just be peaceful about it and say it's perfectly fine that believing in something because it makes you happy is more important to you than knowing the truth.

 

But ...

 

Your beliefs influence your actions and as such, willfully living in a fantasy world has its consequences. If not for you, for the people you interact with. You sound like a nice enough person, and this is another discussion altogether, but what seems well meaning to you could actually be offensive to others or harmful to yourself. Do you really think it's good judgment to say the kid in that picture is suffering because he, his parents, his country, whoever, ... people with obviously much less control over the situation than God ... has done something to deserve it? Isn't THAT what "blaming somebody else" really is? Maybe, with a change of perspective on how God works, you'll regret saying things like this someday, maybe not. And being a rational thinker doesn't guarantee freedom from those mistakes. But it would sure cut down on them.

 

Do you not think life without believing in God can have "something good in it?" Do you think it would be dismal? How can you know this if you've always been a theist?

[florduh]

But the thing is we really DON'T know what God can or cannot do.

Look up "omnipotent." Then, read your Bible.

[Guest Marty]

We don't believe only based on evidence...

 

 

If there is evidence for something, then belief is not necessary. Do you "believe" 2+2=4? Do you "believe" you are on a computer reading this right now?

[Overcame Faith]

Daylight, I find your discussion fascinating. I see myself a few years ago in a lot of what you say about believing in and communicating with god. He's like a good friend, always there and close by and ready and willing to provide comfort and answers to the problems and issues that come along. After much soul searching, though, I came to what I believe is a deeper understanding of what was going on. The answers, the comfort, and the friend were real, but it was my inner self, a part of my mind, something I was born with. I came to realize that there was no external source whatsoever. I now find great comfort in that.

 

I'd like to ask you something and ask you to think real hard and be as honest as possible in answering this question if you are willing. When there is some sort of issue in your life that you don't have a ready answer for, what do you do? What I mean by that is, that even after consciously thinking about the issue and you don't come up with an answer, what do you do to try to get the answer?

 

I'll tell you what I have always done and see if it matches up with your experience. When there is an issue for which I don't know the answer or solution to, I will try my best to think it through consciously and may study up on the issue. If I come to a conclusion that way, then fine, I go with that. But when even conscious study does not resolve the issue for me, then I put it away in my mind so that it "churns" there for some period of time. And this "churning" is not conscious. I am not even consciously aware that it is going on, but my life experiences have proven to me that it is. I may be driving down the road and thoughts on the subject come to me and I'll consciously consider those thoughts, but if they are still not satisfactory, I put the issue away for some additional period of time to "churn." It's sort of like a computer working on a problem in the background while you do other things on your computer. Eventually, the answer or solution almost always comes to me and it may be expressed to my conscious mind as a string of coherent sentences in my mind. And, voila, I have a solution. Do you ever experience anything like that?

[DayLight]

First, I am sure I understand your point. And it's a fair question. But the thing is we really DON'T know what God can or cannot do. I've heard a lot of rumors (from people and by people), but nobody seems to really know. And I don't know either. All I know is that He loves deeply and grieves deeply. That must mean that He cannot do anything about this suffering that WE are causing to ourselves. I am sure that He does feel their pain. And may I add that He feels it much more than any human would. His feelings are much deeper. And I am sure that He is grieved at OUR actions!

 

It's so easy to blame somebody else. It's always what people do. What if everybody stopped blaming someone who can SUPPOSEDLY make it all better DO SOMETHING THEMSELVES instead? It's so easy to pass the buck. It's so easy to feel compassion for a child, but is it as easy to take him into our homes? No. We won't go as far. We want somebody else to fix our problems.

 

I do believe that we blame God for everything and that we blame Him unjustly (out of ignorance, out of not understanding and out of people's incorrect teachings about what God can or cannot do.)

 

Technically, people should act like adults, stop bickering with each other and take care of the planet. But instead, we have a whole bunch of selfish children running around, hoarding their toys and expecting a mommy to come home and fix their mess.

 

God knows people are selfish, he knows that there will always be some people who suffer, even if it is our faults. My point is, he is the only one who can do something about it. If he's all knowing, he knows they ain't gonna be fed. If he feels their pain and loves them, he WILL do something. Why let the innocent suffer just because of the selfish actions of humanity? Why let the innocent pay for the sins of the wicked?

 

 

There are two choices: either God is bad since He is allowing all this to happen

 

OR a very reasonable choice is that He can't do anything about it (for SOME reason which we do not know).

 

I choose to believe the latter. There are always stories about how people feel hurt because of misunderstanding of what the other said or did. I think this is also the case here.

[DayLight]

But the thing is we really DON'T know what God can or cannot do.

Look up "omnipotent." Then, read your Bible.

 

 

I think the Bible is wrong in many places. Because although it has some of God's wisdom and truth (somewhere there), it has a lot which was added by men: men's own thinking and ideas and beliefs.

[DayLight]

If many people are saying that someone is talking to them, I usually believe that there is something to it. They couldn't all be lying. I guess you are saying that it could be something like a hallusinations or a brain disorder or something (internal) that enables them to hear “someone” talk? But how can there be a pattern if it's just random health problems? People believe in coincidences. But what if there are too many and they emerge into a pattern of question and answer, asking and a response... Should we still claim it's just random coincidences? Shouldn't we realize that something unusual is going on?

 

Health problems are not random. They have specific pathologies that allow medical scientists to study and treat them accordingly. All humans have 99.9% the same DNA. This DNA encodes for amino acids, proteins, cells, neurons, sensory organs, all very much the same and functioning to interpret stimuli experienced living under the same sun, breathing the same air, drinking the same water ... and also the more complex things, fearing death, loving others, desiring wealth, feeling guilt, and so many other things. So naturally we would interpret these things in similar ways as to cause a pattern. In a microcosmic way you could compare it to the fact that many of us see puddles in the road on a hot summer day when there aren't any, or see a pencil magically break when placed in a glass of water. It does not verify or suggest that those interpretations of the experiences are correct.

 

What do say for people who claim to been abducted by extraterrestrials, or to have seen bigfoot, or that Elvis is still alive? Are there too many of them about for them all to be lying or mistaken? God has more believers, certainly, but the likelihood of experiencing those things is somewhat proportional to those that claim to have done so. So do you give credence to all those things, or do you admit at least that it's possible that although they were indeed experiencing the same actual thing, it was their common thought processes and brain functions that formed the pattern?

 

"A pattern of question and answer, asking and a response" -- you didn't write this clearly. Do you mean that individually people talk to God and get answers? That's never been proven. All we have of it is anecdotal evidence. Do you mean collectively it fits a pattern, with everyone having their own little piece of a gigantic jigsaw puzzle that we might never finish? Then by what standards do you judge what really belongs to that puzzle? And doesn't a god who reveals himself like this, resulting in holy wars and families getting torn apart sound kind of messed up and evil when you really think about it?

 

I suppose I would have to hear at least a few people with those problems (internal) telling me how their “unhealthy brain” has helped them, has resolved issues for them, has encouraged them exactly when they needed it, has answered some of their questions to which they didn't have answers before. If I heard some of these stories, and that it ended up just being people's brain disorder, then I might start doubting (maybe).

 

I don't necessarily claim that believing in God is the product of an unhealthy mind. But I believe that most of the people in the developed world who claim to have experienced something directly from God, at the level you describe, have only really felt this way sporadically ... maybe two or three times in their whole life. From that I deduce that they are just healthy people with a common misconception of similar experiences.

 

I had those experiences myself ... things happened that "I KNEW" had to come from God, but in retrospect, there were perfectly logical explanations for. If you told us about your experiences, I'm sure we could logically explain them, but if you're determined to think they're from God ... we can't touch you.

 

Yes people ascribe to God what He does not do. That doesn't mean that He doesn't do anything at all. Yes some claims are false. But some are still true. So ok, God did not cause the volcano to erupt. But He did help to guide me to a certain person. Or He did not cause you to get fired in this case. But it's possible (if necessary) He may cause you to get fired in another circumstance. In other words, just because He was not involved in this instance, doesn't mean that He is NEVER involved in such instances (or in particular ones.)

 

Again ... can't touch you. That's the problem. I could send you to a shrink and prove to you that God didn't lead you to a certain person. I could show you my attendance record at work from my last job and prove it wasn't God who got me fired. Theoretically, I could knock down one example after another, and you'd just keep moving the goal post and saying, "yeah, well what about this?" Your evidence isn't holding much water if it needs every unexplained thing in the universe as a backup plan.

 

Part of me wants to just be peaceful about it and say it's perfectly fine that believing in something because it makes you happy is more important to you than knowing the truth.

 

But ...

 

Your beliefs influence your actions and as such, willfully living in a fantasy world has its consequences. If not for you, for the people you interact with. You sound like a nice enough person, and this is another discussion altogether, but what seems well meaning to you could actually be offensive to others or harmful to yourself. Do you really think it's good judgment to say the kid in that picture is suffering because he, his parents, his country, whoever, ... people with obviously much less control over the situation than God ... has done something to deserve it? Isn't THAT what "blaming somebody else" really is? Maybe, with a change of perspective on how God works, you'll regret saying things like this someday, maybe not. And being a rational thinker doesn't guarantee freedom from those mistakes. But it would sure cut down on them.

 

Do you not think life without believing in God can have "something good in it?" Do you think it would be dismal? How can you know this if you've always been a theist?

 

 

I guess I can't know what life is like without God. But I absolutely love life with God. You have to remember that I believe in a loving and caring God. Who wouldn't want to have such a special friend? Is life without such a friend better or worse? I would say it would be worse. I would say that for me personally life would be too painful if there was no purpose in it and no other side. Most people don't get to enjoy life. Most people's dreams are crashed and they just have to survive or settle or get by. If I thought that it was all there was, boy would I be depressed.

 

 

Yes, I meant that people ask a question and God answers. It's my personal experience. And I heard others say that same thing.

Granted that it's hard for people to understand what He says (sometimes). But He does the best He can in trying to convey highly difficult ideas to our very primitive minds.

It is impossible for everyone to believe the same thing. We are fated to have our own opinions no matter what, no matter on what subject. And we are fated to never clearly see everything correctly. So what we have is: we have to do the best we can with what we have.

And that is why forcing one's opinions on someone is wrong. And that is why there will never be enough evidence to convince ALL of the same thing and enable ALL to believe the same way.

So I say: in order to deal with what we have (since we don't live in a perfect world), we should adapt by choosing to believe something nice, something that seems believable to us, something that's not TOO harmful to others. Yes, things are offensive to others. But it cannot be avoided. It's just a sad fact of life. So we have to choose the lesser of the evil and settle for that.

 

God never reveals Himself in violence. I believe that violence comes when people add their own thoughts and ideas to the message. In other words, God would give a message to somebody. And then this person would share this message. And of course, a religion is in the making (as a rule). A religion consists of 1 idea that God gave and a 100 ideas which men added. Somewhere in those 100 ideas there were ideas of violence. God had nothing to do with that. So God would say: love one another. And people would add a whole bunch of rules and rituals and will also add that you are supposed to kill others who don't conform to all of these rules and rituals.

[DayLight]

 

I am sorry, if you already addressed this, but I haven't focused on the thread closely. Would your definition of god mean then, he has the most power, not that is he is all powerful. If you believe that, what makes god different then superman.

 

He might be a superman for all I know! (Although superman cannot create lifeforms as far as I know) All I know is that He can do stuff we cannot do. And that He is super-smart. But I also believe that there are limitations. And I believe that He probably didn't reach the top in "smart" yet, but keeps learning things. Of course I can't be sure, but this is what I suspect based on what I know.

[Guest Valk0010]

Self projection and idealism maybe? Your creating a religion.

[DayLight]

 

 

Also, if I may add to the question, if he's not all powerful, where did he come from?

 

I think that in some sense He always was, but not in the same state as now. I think the state of His being has changed (grew I guess, He became what He is now at some point)

[DayLight]

Daylight, I find your discussion fascinating. I see myself a few years ago in a lot of what you say about believing in and communicating with god. He's like a good friend, always there and close by and ready and willing to provide comfort and answers to the problems and issues that come along. After much soul searching, though, I came to what I believe is a deeper understanding of what was going on. The answers, the comfort, and the friend were real, but it was my inner self, a part of my mind, something I was born with. I came to realize that there was no external source whatsoever. I now find great comfort in that.

 

I'd like to ask you something and ask you to think real hard and be as honest as possible in answering this question if you are willing. When there is some sort of issue in your life that you don't have a ready answer for, what do you do? What I mean by that is, that even after consciously thinking about the issue and you don't come up with an answer, what do you do to try to get the answer?

 

I'll tell you what I have always done and see if it matches up with your experience. When there is an issue for which I don't know the answer or solution to, I will try my best to think it through consciously and may study up on the issue. If I come to a conclusion that way, then fine, I go with that. But when even conscious study does not resolve the issue for me, then I put it away in my mind so that it "churns" there for some period of time. And this "churning" is not conscious. I am not even consciously aware that it is going on, but my life experiences have proven to me that it is. I may be driving down the road and thoughts on the subject come to me and I'll consciously consider those thoughts, but if they are still not satisfactory, I put the issue away for some additional period of time to "churn." It's sort of like a computer working on a problem in the background while you do other things on your computer. Eventually, the answer or solution almost always comes to me and it may be expressed to my conscious mind as a string of coherent sentences in my mind. And, voila, I have a solution. Do you ever experience anything like that?

 

I suppose that it's the way it happens. It COULD be God trying to express an idea to you and you are not getting it at first and He keeps trying it in different ways. Or it could be just your own brain. I don't have a problem with believing that. I think that sometimes it's God and sometimes it's my own brain.

 

Your inner self? Besides just you? You think you are different from your inner self? I wasn't sure what you meant. You mean there is you and your inner self? Or were you trying to say that it was your own brain (which you call inner self) which was helping you....?

 

I know for sure that it's not me (or should I say: I believe for sure)

[florduh]

I think the Bible is wrong.

Ah, so you invented your own god just like the writers of the Bible did. Obviously, yours is correct. Still, he seems to be based on the Bible god rather than Vishnu, Thor, or Osiris.

[Overcame Faith]

Your inner self? Besides just you? You think you are different from your inner self? I wasn't sure what you meant. You mean there is you and your inner self? Or were you trying to say that it was your own brain (which you call inner self) which was helping you....?

 

It is my own brain. There is no true distinction between one's "inner self" and one's "conscious self" except we are aware of the "conscious self" and have more conscious control over it. It is sort of like the things your body does automatically like breathing and your heartbeat as opposed to moving your arms or walking. It's all part of you but you have conscious control over the arms and walking and the breathing and heartbeat are on automatic.

 

What I am saying is that what you believe is god talking to you is actually your "inner self," part of your brain working on a subconscious level thinking about things that are of concern to you and then informing your conscious mind of the conclusions you have reached. Thus, it was you who figured out that there is no hell and that the bible has it all wrong. You ascribe it to god because, like me a few years ago, it was the point of reference for such things.

 

Think of it this way. When you walk in the woods at night all alone and you hear creepy sounds like owls and movement in the fallen leaves, you get a frightful chill and your conscious mind goes on a high state of alert. That's your subconscious mind alerting your conscious mind to beware because it is "programmed" through years of evolution that that particular set of circumstances can spell danger from wild animals. Once your conscious mind goes on alert, then you can consciously take over and check to see if there is real danger, remove yourself from the situation, if there is a situation, or prepare to defend yourself.

 

What I described above is the subconscious mind at work at a very primitive, but important, level. Our human minds work far beyond mere warnings of circumstances that are potentially dangerous. They also work to help us understand ourselves and our surroundings and to work through questions that are inherent to intelligent beings, like moral issues and the meaning of life and such. It is that same faculty that warns your conscious mind that the dark woods at night can be dangerous that also helps you understand the larger questions of life. That is what I experienced and what I believe you are experiencing.

 

The reason that the god you believe is communicating to you is incapable of helping all the starving children in the world is because that "god" is no god at all, but your subconscious mind. And it's the same reason that, if you are honest with yourself, you will come to realize that what you get from this "god" is imperfect and matches your own limitations of knowledge and mental abilities.

 

I, too, learned this lesson. If you are interested, you can read about a part of it here:

 

http://www.ex-christian.net/index.php?/topic/40889-leaving-god/

[DayLight]

Self projection and idealism maybe? Your creating a religion.

 

Not sure in what way it is as you said. As far as creating a religion.... I don't like to think that I am doing that. But if me saying that there is somebody out there who loves you and who wants to communicate with you. is creating a religion, then I guess I can't escape being swept up in the current of "religion-making".

[DayLight]

I think the Bible is wrong.

Ah, so you invented your own god just like the writers of the Bible did. Obviously, yours is correct. Still, he seems to be based on the Bible god rather than Vishnu, Thor, or Osiris.

 

Yes, I can see how it would seem that way. And yet, I AM trying to do something different here. I am not trying to say that "this is the way, follow in it". I am trying to say that everybody needs to follow their own way. In religions, people think that the truth is only in their religions. I am trying to say that the truth is everywhere and yet nowhere completely. And that God is simply - a Being who is trying to communicate with us. (not some God who is wanting to be worshiped in different ways of different religions).

 

If people were to claim that they have established communication with aliens, they wouldn't be considered religious. So if I am talking about a being, veiled in mystery throughtout all of these ages and perceived as all these different characters, but that He is actually simply a Being, why is that religious? I am trying to say that God is not supposed to be considered as a religious figure, but as a Being from a different type of universe, a science fiction movie type of a Being, who is seeking communication...

 

Is that inventing my own God? If it is, then I guess I am. I guess we can't escape the laws which govern life. I guess it's as I said in my first post, just me, creating just another variation of beliefs... I am sure there is some point there that I need to counter or something, but I just can't think of it. I just really don't like to think that I am simply inventing yet another God. And yet, perhaps I am. And yet, it doesn't mean that it's a necessarily a bad idea. People are often actually HELPED by others' beliefs. So if my belief helps somebody, then it's worth it. If my belief takes them away from a bad God,and gives them a gift of a loving one, then it will be all worth it I think. I still believe that believing in a loving friend, is better than having no friend at all.

[DesertBob]

I think you assume too much, Daylight.

 

Nothing says that god(s) would be comprehensible to us, interested in us, or friendly to us. If you drop all your preconceptions and hopes and wishes, what you're left with is a near-total information vacuum. You have other people's anecdotal stories and claims, including those in holy books, and you have perhaps your own subjective experiences which may or may not be pure projection.

 

You also have your wishes, hopes and needs to superimpose on all this chatter and then you pull something out of your rectum and hold it up to us, dripping wet and just as fragrant as Christianity or any other ism.

 

The only god who interests me is one who gives a fig about me and shows it. The other kind either doesn't exist, or I wouldn't want to attract its attention anyway.

[Guest Valk0010]

Self projection and idealism maybe? Your creating a religion.

 

Not sure in what way it is as you said. As far as creating a religion.... I don't like to think that I am doing that. But if me saying that there is somebody out there who loves you and who wants to communicate with you. is creating a religion, then I guess I can't escape being swept up in the current of "religion-making".

I will be blunt, your creating your own god.

[Guest Perfect Insanity]

There are two choices: either God is bad since He is allowing all this to happen

 

OR a very reasonable choice is that He can't do anything about it (for SOME reason which we do not know).

 

I choose to believe the latter. There are always stories about how people feel hurt because of misunderstanding of what the other said or did. I think this is also the case here.

 

I don't buy it. If he is all knowing and can think, if he is all powerful and can speak the universe into existence, if he can feel compassion and love to such an extent, then there is nothing preventing him from acting.

[DesertBob]

I will be blunt, your creating your own god.

Exactly. This is a case study in how religions are invented. Nothing new to see here. Move along, folks.

[DesertBob]

I don't buy it. If he is all knowing and can think, if he is all powerful and can speak the universe into existence, if he can feel compassion and love to such an extent, then there is nothing preventing him from acting.

P.I., you could not be more right.

 

There is no way to reconcile a god who is loving, caring, and compassionate towards his creatures with the indifferent universe in which we live. I have always pointed this back to Jesus himself -- he said, "if you, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly father give to those that love him"? I expected god to treat me and mine at least as well as I treated my own children. That's completely reasonable. And it didn't happen.

[DayLight]

I think you assume too much, Daylight.

 

Nothing says that god(s) would be comprehensible to us, interested in us, or friendly to us. If you drop all your preconceptions and hopes and wishes,

 

I just wanted to make a note that the things I write is not wishful thinking, but based on messages I received from the source. I was not even aware of these things before I was told.