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Goodbye Jesus

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Posted

So, friends... what's your take? You can vote for more than one, especially if two or more choices

reflect opinions that have changed over time. I've personally gone (as sole, semi-convinced opinions)

from number 1 all the way to number 5 at times, but I orbit this little galaxy of opinions

from time to time and thankfully spend a LOT of time at number 6.

 

It helps (hurts?) that I am married to a woman who is a tolerant, patient and forgiving person of both

my shortcomings and my rational decisions to leave church and the Christian faith per se. That's the

influence that keeps me occasionally revisiting the idea of number 1... I can sort of see where there

might be emotional and psychological benefits for some people, but they are attempting to meet needs

I either don't have or that I satisfy elsewhere. I have, however, as many on here know, had some run-ins

with unvarnished assholes who justify just such assholery with a rigid, well-mapped-out biblical defense.

They are the ones who keep numbers 3, 4 and 5 on the map for me. There's a good portion of the so-called

"true believers" that I know who make it very hard to be benign at all towards the concept of the benevolent

"god" of the bible.

 

All in all, however, when I think of the Christian faith and the Christians I know, I generally treat them

just like I treat people I know who have very different political, social or racial views than me... often,

we find some common ground and get along great. There are times when their concerted opinions exert enough

force on them to affect their choices and attitudes negatively (IMHO), and I just step back, breathe a sigh

and realize that they are simply acting with integrity according to what they believe to be true about themselves,

others and the world.

 

What about you? Where does your opinion lie in this poll? Could there be other choices? SHOULD there?

 

Thanks for playing... you are all dear to me as people who bring to light so many facets of what it means to be

human. I am regularly challenged to reason with more strength, think on deeper levels, and laugh like hell

when I visit here.

 

Namaste,

 

L.B.

Posted

I picked number three because it is only the fundamentalists that try to push their religion on me and thus the only ones I have a real problem with.

Posted

Dosage makes the poison.

 

Apply the jebus cult only slightly, and only the good stuff (you know, "judge not" et al), and it can do good. Try to apply it fully, as in babblical literalism, and... well we all know what the result will be.

Posted

I go between 1, 3, and 4, depending on how pissed off I am that day. Like Thurisaz says, the good things are ok, but unnecessary for me, since I can get the lovey stuff from other religions that don't require a perfect man to die for nasty ol' me. Many of the premises I find absolutely toxic, and the fundies are terrible - but if it works for some, and helps them live peacefully, who am I to take that from them?

Posted

So, friends... what's your take? You can vote for more than one, especially if two or more choices

reflect opinions that have changed over time. I've personally gone (as sole, semi-convinced opinions)

from number 1 all the way to number 5 at times, but I orbit this little galaxy of opinions

from time to time and thankfully spend a LOT of time at number 6.

 

It helps (hurts?) that I am married to a woman who is a tolerant, patient and forgiving person of both

my shortcomings and my rational decisions to leave church and the Christian faith per se. That's the

influence that keeps me occasionally revisiting the idea of number 1... I can sort of see where there

might be emotional and psychological benefits for some people, but they are attempting to meet needs

I either don't have or that I satisfy elsewhere. I have, however, as many on here know, had some run-ins

with unvarnished assholes who justify just such assholery with a rigid, well-mapped-out biblical defense.

They are the ones who keep numbers 3, 4 and 5 on the map for me. There's a good portion of the so-called

"true believers" that I know who make it very hard to be benign at all towards the concept of the benevolent

"god" of the bible.

 

All in all, however, when I think of the Christian faith and the Christians I know, I generally treat them

just like I treat people I know who have very different political, social or racial views than me... often,

we find some common ground and get along great. There are times when their concerted opinions exert enough

force on them to affect their choices and attitudes negatively (IMHO), and I just step back, breathe a sigh

and realize that they are simply acting with integrity according to what they believe to be true about themselves,

others and the world.

 

What about you? Where does your opinion lie in this poll? Could there be other choices? SHOULD there?

 

Thanks for playing... you are all dear to me as people who bring to light so many facets of what it means to be

human. I am regularly challenged to reason with more strength, think on deeper levels, and laugh like hell

when I visit here.

 

Namaste,

 

L.B.

 

 

If one doesn't know any better, and needs to have something to hold on to, it's very beneficial if only the good aspects of it are used. It makes you a better person (love your neighbor as yourself, forgive all, treat your enemies with love, overcome evil with good), and gives you comfort and security and peace, gives you someone to depend on, someone to turn to in the time of need (love God), promises a bright future.

 

Believing in the bad aspects of it, is dangerous and is often harmful for others.

 

Many people are controlled and are victimized by misapplication of this religion. Many people live in fear of damnation when they don't have to live in fear. Some people are even killed in the name of God. Some are mistreated in the name of God. It teaches racism (for example, against gay people).

Posted

I said no. 1. It is a terrible religion for me, but I see where my parents have benefited from it. I am far from understanding why, but I don't see them having a stable life without it. They have done well, to raise three kids who grew up and aren't terrible people. They are good people, my parents. Its just that this one area of life, they don't understand anyone with a different viewpoint. It is a selective blindness.

Posted

I think that it's dangerous and harmful to promote untruth as truth. However, I do not believe that belief in something untrue makes every individual Christian pitiable or corrupt.

Posted

I wonder what this poll would like like in another forum?

Guest riverrunner
Posted

although I voted worthy of ridicule and scorn I actually think religion serves as a check on society and people are not ready to have the rug pulled out from under them so to speak. some of us know how to be good without god and realize that there is morality, right and wrong, good and bad (just not a thing called sin) in this world.

  • 3 weeks later...
Posted

It's a difficult question because it strays into generalization...totally and over time I think it is extremely harmful. In it's modern toned down version is it as harmful as say Christianity during the Inquisition? No, I don't think so, I just think the negative effects are more subtle... Many in my family are good people and are Christian. It gives them a purpose and community but also makes them intolerant, racially biased and/or ignorant of the world around them. I think because Christianity claims to have all the answers, adherents to it will naturally predisposed themselves to ignorance since they have no intellectual curiosity beyond "Gawd did it". Do I have Christians knocking down my door and torturing me into confession? No, but that doesn't mean the modernized version is any better for people.

Posted

My stance is that it is basically harmful, despite the common themes of love your neighbor and such. In some regards it has produced people that are genuinely nice and concerned about the welfare of others, some rather astonishingly beautiful music, and some rather amazing architecture. But the basis of it is that people are basically icky in the sight of the creator, and the only solution is not forgiveness as we are taught to give to others, but satisfaction of the bloodlust of the creator who acts like an abusive spouse (and the church responds like an abused wife). Thus, it is stupid, harmful, and most of us went through emotional torture over our "sin", when all along it never existed. We can be kind and good people, led by a human-beneficial code of conduct, and drawing on centuries of cross-cultural history and collected wisdom and knowledge to guide us onward, rather than returning to the Dark Ages. The sooner mankind is free of the Abrahamic religions and their viral offshoots, the sooner we will see a transformed humanity.

Posted

Its a bit hard since the kind of Christianity that isn't harmful (imo) is not really considered Christianity by most Christians. A truly bible based faith is going to be harmful to pretty much anyone to one degree or another. Isn't Benny Hinn's Christianity pretty much harmful to everyone? Ray Comfort? Joel Olsteen? People might get some benefits but the harm outweighs it. The manipulation of the emotions, the skewed worldview, the forced ignorance, the money loss.

 

My mother in law is the only person I've met whom Christianity didn't harm in some way. But since she is a universalist, tolerant of other religions and lifestyles, pro choice, tithes in charitable donations, doesn't believe the bible is inerrant - you realize that many Christians would not accept that she is one. Its more like a follower of Jesus philosophy.

  • Like 1
Posted

Not only fundamentalism is misplaced, the fortress gospel is also misplaced.

Its bendficial to aomeone. The priests earn good money. Power needs can be satisfied in the organization.

 

  • 2 weeks later...
Posted

Literalism has crushed all the life and intent out of the religion, as it does with any institution, including constitutions and even condo association rules. Rather live by the intent (treat each other better than you do) than by the letter of the law (including the claim they are the ONLY way).

  • Like 1
Posted

I voted "Beneficial to some, just not to me (like a medicine I don't need)". And I like the medicine parallel. Christianity is a drug. As with all drugs it's harmful for a healthy person (I was healthy and it made me sick), but it can be beneficial for those who are sick. I have seen drug addicts giving up addiction for a Christian lifestyle and they might have ended up dead otherwise. So in their case it's beneficial. I also think it's beneficial for my father who has had a brain stroke 10 years ago and is tied to bed since. (BTW, how come God allowed this happen to him? He has been a Christian for 10 years already when this happened.) Since he will probably spend the rest of his life tied to bed, all he has is his faith that he will have a miracle healing one day, or at least he will have a better life in the afterlife. (I have to say he believes in that miracle healing so much. Of course, no matter how much praying, fasting, faith etc., nothing ever happened.) So I think in his case it's beneficial.  At least it gives him hope. 

 

But for my own life, it had a lot more negative effects than positive. I might have even developed a slight case of OCD because of it! 

 

 

  • Like 1
Posted

I voted other, because it's a mixed bag. I do see that the generalized belief in Jesus as a savior is comforting for some, and that it stabilizes their out of control lives. Or, I should say, they stabilize their out of control lives because they now believe it possible. There are negatives as well, such as the fear of hell, and a growing intollerance of those that do not share their beliefs. I think it's sort of like chemotherapy in a sense. It kills some negatives in a person's life while introducting new ones. I see the varrying sects of Christianity as differnt types of chemo drugs. Some have a more drastic affect on the person than others. Some mutate and twist the person, while others lull them into a thought coma.

 

I guess I would rather see a person deluded for the rest of their life than drunk and homeless. If a person's belief prompts them to stop destructive behavior, then it's better than nothing.

 

 

  • Like 1
  • 2 weeks later...
Posted

I think #3 is right on the money.

 

After a lot of wrestling with various ideologies and learning some different ways that other people "do Christianity," that is the conclusion I came to myself.

 

It may not be literally true, but there are ways in which some interpretations of this religion and its human community as a whole can be beneficial to both its members and those outside of it. It can provide thought-provoking counterpoints to the materialistic status quo, for example.

 

The big problem is that it is equally possible for other interpretations of this religion and its human community to set up and reinforce incredibly destructive ideas and behavior.

  • 1 year later...
Posted

Christianity and Christians, except for the fundamentalist hardliners, aren’t a problem or issue for me. I once believed but now I don’t. It is essentially for me just something that I see differently than folks that continue to be believers.  I try and mind my own business and stay away from religious conversations. Basically I try and embrace a live and let live philosophy when it comes to religion. You do your thing and I'll do mine.

  • Like 1
Posted

The only time that Christianity or Christians affect me is when they "go into preaching mode" and I just look, smile and disengage. I am sure that they "feel badly" for me since I "dont have the hope of eternity" nor do I "feel the love that they feel"...but I UNDERSTAND why they think these things, feel that they HAVE to preach at me and I am kind to them in spite of their behavior toward me.

 

What do I think??? I think it is a thinker's cop out and an escape from reality. They run to it to HIDE THEIR PAIN and I feel sorry for them...

  • Like 1
Posted

The only time that Christianity or Christians affect me is when they "go into preaching mode" and I just look, smile and disengage. I am sure that they "feel badly" for me since I "dont have the hope of eternity" nor do I "feel the love that they feel"...but I UNDERSTAND why they think these things, feel that they HAVE to preach at me and I am kind to them in spite of their behavior toward me.

 

What do I think??? I think it is a thinker's cop out and an escape from reality. They run to it to HIDE THEIR PAIN and I feel sorry for them...

 

 

I agree. There is no need to engage them because there is no common ground. They are absolutely convinced they will lose their souls and be condemned to hell for all eternity if they even listen to your POV. They don't even hear what you're saying. They can only recite their indoctrinated dogma back to you because that's all they have. It's pointless to engage a fundamentalist because their brainwashed minds simply do not process information rationally or coherently. Validated historical facts are seen as works of the Devil that are intended to mislead and deceive naïve humans.

Posted

Went with 3 and other. I think it is far too simplistic to say that it does no one any good, but it can certainly be dangerous.

Posted

I wish I were stable enough in my views about it to even vote! I range from so angry because I was hurt very badly by them, to "eh....whatever."

 

I guess if humans still think they need religion, it is not bad if it is not taken too far. Even then, though, it does not follow that just because humans have used religion in the past to "be good" that they still need it. I know we had discussion about morality outside and religion and I absolutely think- I mean KNOW- that it exists. 

 

On the other hand, I now xers who say that if they were not xers, they would be evil people, that it restrains them. 

 

Also many like to feel that there is something they can ask questions to, and beliefs even if they are wrong. 

 

So if they FEEL it restrains them, and they need it, well  have at it, just don't be a fundy and do NOT TELL others how to live. If they cannot do that then I think it is a poison. 

  • Like 1
  • 3 weeks later...
Posted

Eh, it all depends.

 

I had a flatmate earlier in the year who had crippling depression for some years, and she started doing really well once she started going to church. I've got another friend who recently went into a coma for two weeks and almost died after getting hit by a car, and after passionate disbelief he's convinced God exists again. Yet another person has been in some bad relationships and had some bad experiences in her life, but her theism gets her through it.

 

For those people, Christianity has real benefits. They're pretty good with keeping their beliefs personal and it works for them. Personally, I can't argue with that.

 

But on the other side, I've just had a shitfight with my grandparents because they simply brush off any new perspectives as inherently evil, but still want to argue (in this case, gay marriage). I sent them a heart-felt (but also pretty barbed: probably more-so than was necessary) email, and part of the response I got from my almost-as-opinionated uncle pretty much sums up the problems I have with religion:

"as long as you continue to side with this minority perspective that encourages a sinful lifestyle, you will continue to be corrected."

 

It's this "I'm right, and it's my job to correct everyone else as long as they disagree with the parts of the Bible that I like" perspective that royally fucks me off. If you then pressed them hard enough, they'd fall back to the defence of "It's a matter of faith!"

 

The sad part is that I know plenty of people my own age that make that philosophy a way of life. Sometimes I want to slap them with some magic from Chris Kluwe or Bill Maher, but that only makes them more convinced that they're right and feeds their persecution complex.

Posted

can I say through the shit coloured glasses it deserves to be seen through?

Posted

It's a sociopathic cult. The more I study them and their teachings, the more I'm convinced that this description is right on target. I couldn't care any less regarding the ones who seem kind or caring or any of the other emotional tags people put on them. The teachings they use, straight out of their real god, the bible, reinforce my view day after day.

  • Like 2
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