Hello Christians!

[willybilly30]

Ok iprayican here is a question:

God puts the tree of knowledge in the Garden of Eden

Now god knows everything so surely he knew Adam and eve would eat it

He created them knowing they would do it so you could say he created them too eat from it.

Now were all born in sin right? Therefore, god sent his only begotten son to die so whosoever believed on him shall have everlasting life. john3:16

So he sent his only son too die for our sins so he could forgive us?

 

Now you said you have a baby. Let us say you had two babies. They grow up and one sins

Would you crucify it too forgive the other child?

If you were a creator, would you create people you know would sin then make a hell to put them in?

[JeffXL]

They don't like it when we tell them that but the truth is the Christianity they were shown wasn't complete. Satan knows this and he has used it since the beginning of time against us. He shows them a partial picture and it doesn't hold up. Most people don't understand the concept of free will, it's almost like trying to grasp infinity. Nor do I think people understand the exponetial consequences of having the knowledge of good and evil and how making one evil choice over time changed the structure of the world and humanity in the process.

101961[/snapback]

 

The utter arrogance is stunning. We are not stupid. We have endured and are too familiar with every asinine franchise of Christianity, every bizarre mental contortion Christians employ to whitewash or sweep under the rug every idiocy, lie, and cruelty in the Bible and churches' doctrines. Christianity, in all its variants, is full of holes, just like the Bible they use to lie to the world.

 

We do love each other. Unlike Je$u$ or gawd, the people on this forum 1. Actually exist' 2. Will actually respond; and 3. Are actually helpful.

 

Call for your army of darkness. Logic and decency will prevail.

[JeffXL]

Mythra--

 

*Love* the "Smells Like Bullshit" image. I just stole it. Perfect for Ex-Christians everywhere!

[♦ nivek ♦]

Daniel..

 

This is sectarian masturbation at its worst.

 

Maybe you like having "Mr. Willie" out in public for folks to see and laugh at...

 

Far too many of we are tired of the evangelistic venting you attempt to do, but in turn refuse to defend.

 

For the lack of a good set of useful apologetics I'll ask you gently and nicely to go find another playground. One where folks like what you have to say and will agree not to laugh at "Mr. Willie" when exposed so often.

 

Pull your pants and stakes up outa Dave's livingroom carpet buds..

 

kevinL

[Asuryan]

So, that is the question... to whom shall we go?  Who has the words?  Who do you believe it to be?

101882[/snapback]

 

Hey, what's this? A mass? Hmm, where can I get a holy wafer? It's been a long time since I last did cannibalism.

 

Daniel, you are a christian and just wrote a post for christians. This is an exchristian forum. WTF, dude?

Do you usually go to the bookstore and ask for a loaf of bread? This is not the place for such posts. They can only (and wonderfully manage to) piss everyone here, of course exception made for iprayican... but then, posts FOR christians FROM christians should be put on christian forums.

[willybilly30]

Iprayican and Daniel look at this website and tell me what you think of these verses

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/

[Checkmate]

Oh, and can someone tell me how I can replace that label "doubter" to something more appropriate.  I'd hate to confuse folks!

101988[/snapback]

 

How 'bout "deluded"?

101996[/snapback]

I concur! Moderators! Let's change her handle to DELUDED! That rocks!

 

P.S. - IPIC, don't you have some homework to do over in the Colosseum? It's no fucking wonder it's taking you so long. You're a procrastinating, burning candles at both end, excuse making fool. If you and danny-boy want to swap spit and scriptures, go get your own fucking forum! I'd rather not be made witness to your perversity.

 

 

 

Fuck. I wish we weren't so fucking tolerant of Christians and their bullshit. I'd be a "banning" mother fucker around here.

[iprayican]

That is a lot to respond to but you don't have the whole picture when you pluck a verse out without the whole story and history of what was happening before God decided enough was enough and set a judgement on a person or city of people. You are talking about a God that is both Just and Merciful to the degree that we cannot understand. A great book that I think might help you with these questions is, "The Case for Faith" by Lee Strobel. I know you probably get tired of hearing about this author but he was once a non-believer and decided to get answers from some of the leading authorities on the Bible. In his book there is a question #4: God isn't worthy of Worship if He kills innocent Children. I'm just going to post one section of his response to a question like this.

 

"In Joshua 6, where the Bible talks about the destruction of Jericho and the Canaanite, you've got the same pattern. This was a thoroughly evil culture, so much so that the Bible says it nauseated God. THey were into brutality, cruelty, incest, bestiality, cultic prostitution and even child sacrifice by fire. They were an aggressive culture that wanted to annihilate the Israelites."

 

I understand if you don't want to read the book so I will break down the response the way I see it. You have to look at the picture God saw. He had already given their culture hundreds of years to respond to him, they rejected him and when the Israelites came in, they wouldn't have stopped until they had killed all of their people. The people who didn't want to be a part of that culture had to have left not able to be a part of it so that only those that thought their way of life was good lived there. Anyone under the age of accountablity, children through teens, even though killed would not be judged, they will not be assigned eternity in hell because they were not able to make a choice yet. God's purpose was to destroy and evil and corrupt nation, in this case, it was not just the leaders that were corrupt, it was the entire population. The children would have been raised to accept it as an ok way to live, too. If the children had been spared, and later found out that their city and people had been destroyed, there probably would have been some resentment that prevented them from seeing why. Even though God's justice seems very harsh, and we can't see the always see the wisdom behind it, those children are in heaven spared from hell because they probably would have never been able to know God.

 

Hell is another topic that deserves discussing. A lot of you have taken what is considered symbolic language and turned it into literal. Hell is basically separation from God. The only people that will be there are people who don't want to be with God, people who have rejected his existance even though there is more than enough proof and people who know he exists but hate him and that includes the angels that followed Satan. God says there is enough proof just in nature and that every person is sent the light of truth to pursue or reject. Hell wasn't made for people, it was made for Satan and his followers. Hell is not torture for an eternity, it is realizing you made the wrong choice and being separated from God. That realization will be a constant grieving and regret, and if you have ever felt this way about something in your life, it is painful.

 

I want to tackle all these with you, one by one. There are no easy one-liner answers to your questions. Perhaps, as some have suggested it would be better for me to do it in the Arena. I am getting so side tracked but I just feel all your objections are good. I want to finish the inerrancy thread, but maybe setting them up one at a time would be better, and then adding topics like, How can God be loving if he sends people to hell. I have started the birth of Jesus descepancy and the genealogy of Luke and Matthew already, so I want to finish them first. Why don't you guys decide which debate you would like me to start with once I finish those, and set it up in the Arena. I am going to end participating in all other discussions until I get done with those two questions.

[iprayican]

Throw them scriptures up there and I'll wade through them with you. There is only one of me so I would appreciate some help from my side. I have some heavy research and a baby on my shoulder asleep right now so I am just buzzing through. I also have a completely booked week but I do care about answering your questions, however, since I haven't committed the entire Bible to memory please use references, it will speed up the process of my response.

101986[/snapback]

 

 

We could throw Bible quotes around till the cows come home, but that does nothing for us.

 

Can you prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the Bible is true?

101991[/snapback]

 

 

No, I can't but I can show you enough evidence that you can believe, God made sure some faith was required, otherwise, in the face of absolute proof, you really wouldn't have a choice.

[iprayican]

Oh, and can someone tell me how I can replace that label "doubter" to something more appropriate.  I'd hate to confuse folks!

101988[/snapback]

 

How 'bout "deluded"?

101996[/snapback]

I concur! Moderators! Let's change her handle to DELUDED! That rocks!

 

P.S. - IPIC, don't you have some homework to do over in the Colosseum? It's no fucking wonder it's taking you so long. You're a procrastinating, burning candles at both end, excuse making fool. If you and danny-boy want to swap spit and scriptures, go get your own fucking forum! I'd rather not be made witness to your perversity.

 

 

 

Fuck. I wish we weren't so fucking tolerant of Christians and their bullshit. I'd be a "banning" mother fucker around here.

102076[/snapback]

 

If that makes you feel better, go ahead. I've been called worse.

[narcissist]

"Hello Christians!, A devotion I wrote for us."

 

Man, look at how wide those phylacteries are!

[Vixentrox]

God's version of doing good is, "The only way to save the children is to KILL them." That's what your saying? Your almighty god couldn't come up with anything better huh?

[quicksand]

That is a lot to respond to but you don't have the whole picture when you pluck a verse out without the whole story and history of what was happening before God decided enough was enough and set a judgement on a person or city of people.  You are talking about a God that is both Just and Merciful to the degree that we cannot understand.

102108[/snapback]

What I understand is that your God is omnibevelonent. That is not only is he Good, but the highest degree of goodness. If this is the case, Prey, then his nature is limited and can only do but good. Therefore, punishment by violent means, eg smiting with lighting, drowning children, etc is beyond that built-in limit and can only use love to get things done.

 

That's what I understand.

 

However, you contradict your self. On one hand you say that god is not "understandable" and on the other hand you say that he is also "just and merciful." So, I ask you, if God is not understandable, how can you make these statements without refuting yourself?

 

At least I stick to what a definition is and do not try to smudge or erase the middle ground.

 

In his book there is a question #4:  God isn't worthy of Worship if He kills innocent Children.  I'm just going to post one section of his response to a question like this.

 

"In Joshua 6, where the Bible talks about the destruction of Jericho and the Canaanite, you've got the same pattern.  This was a thoroughly evil culture, so much so that the Bible says it nauseated God.  THey were into brutality, cruelty, incest, bestiality, cultic prostitution and even child sacrifice by fire.  They were an aggressive culture that wanted to annihilate the Israelites."

102108[/snapback]

Funny thing, you follow the same pattern that Strobel does.

 

Question for you is, that somewhere around 2000 years ago, God decides to beget himself as Jesus to save humanity. Why didn't he just do it then? We hear of all these alledged magnifiicant stories of people being soooo overwhelmed by Jesus' power that right then and there they are transformed into the "saved" or believers. Accordingly... why not beget himself as Jesus then and there, instead of all the violence?

 

I like how God, the all powerful, negates his "sacarfice" as himself the Son by these OT overtly violent actions.

 

 

Even though God's justice seems very harsh, and we can't see the always see the wisdom behind it, those children are in heaven spared from hell because they probably would have never been able to know God.

102108[/snapback]

Wonderfully discordant your lack of applied logic is.

 

So, abortion is okay. Under the age of accountibilty, you get to go to heaven! Weeee!!!!!

 

Hell is another topic that deserves discussing.  A lot of you have taken what is considered symbolic language and turned it into literal.  Hell is basically separation from God.  The only people that will be there are people who don't want to be with God, people who have rejected his existance even though there is more than enough proof and people who know he exists but hate him and that includes the angels that followed Satan.

102108[/snapback]

So Hell, in the literal corporeal sense does not exist. Well then, if its a figurative place, then Earthly existence is Hell and I gotta tell you, it okay. I quite like this Hell. And if "being with God" is like being in heaven, you are already in heaven.

 

Therefor Prey, you don't have carrot or a stick.

[Mythra]

Anyone under the age of accountablity, children through teens, even though killed would not be judged, they will not be assigned eternity in hell because they were not able to make a choice yet.  God's purpose was to destroy and evil and corrupt nation, in this case, it was not just the leaders that were corrupt, it was the entire population.  The children would have been raised to accept it as an ok way to live, too.  If the children had been spared, and later found out that their city and people had been destroyed, there probably would have been some resentment that prevented them from seeing why.  Even though God's justice seems very harsh, and we can't see the always see the wisdom behind it, those children are in heaven spared from hell because they probably would have never been able to know God.

102108[/snapback]

 

Whoa. Halt. Stop the presses.

 

If you are going to spew outright falsehoods, you're gonna get called on it here.

 

This is a lie. The "age of accountability" is a lie. It's not in the bible.

 

And, according to your argument, we should just go ahead and annihilate all of the people of communist china and all of the muslim countries, so that their little kids can go to heaven.

 

Now, explain to us why Yahweh was satiated after Achan's little kids were stoned to death in the book of Joshua. Were they EVIL?

[Mythra]

No, I can't but I can show you enough evidence that you can believe,

102109[/snapback]

 

Now, trust me on this one, iprayican. From what I've seen so far, you can't.

[iprayican]

Anyone under the age of accountablity, children through teens, even though killed would not be judged, they will not be assigned eternity in hell because they were not able to make a choice yet.  God's purpose was to destroy and evil and corrupt nation, in this case, it was not just the leaders that were corrupt, it was the entire population.  The children would have been raised to accept it as an ok way to live, too.  If the children had been spared, and later found out that their city and people had been destroyed, there probably would have been some resentment that prevented them from seeing why.  Even though God's justice seems very harsh, and we can't see the always see the wisdom behind it, those children are in heaven spared from hell because they probably would have never been able to know God.

102108[/snapback]

Whoa. Halt. Stop the presses.

 

If you are going to spew outright falsehoods, you're gonna get called on it here.

 

This is a lie. The "age of accountability" is a lie. It's not in the bible.

 

The term age of accountablity is one that men have come up with to define what God did in relationship to judging. For instance, in the wilderness, when God said only people under a certain age would be allowed to enter the promised land and all others would have to spend their lives outside until that age group had died out. I believe it was everyone aged 20 and under. Concepts are in the Bible, just like we have the concept of the "Trinity", another term men have assigned to define what they understand of God from reading the scriptures.

 

 

And, according to your argument, we should just go ahead and annihilate all of the people of communist china and all of the muslim countries, so that their little kids can go to heaven.

 

Now, explain to us why Yahweh was satiated after Achan's little kids were stoned to death in the book of Joshua.  Were they EVIL?

102127[/snapback]

 

I see how God used different nations to punish others, even bringing a corrupt nation against the Israelites because they had turned away from him, and I believe He still works to this day by moving the hearts of men to action. I also see where men think they have the ability to be a God knowing how to judge other nations and abuse the power they have to meet their own desires, not God's. I don't have the ability to tell the difference, except that God has shown in the Bible where He took an evil that was already in the mind of man and used that to bring about a returning to God by another nation or bring on a punishment of that nation that was practicing evil and oppressing others, stopping a threat to other nations or just against their own people. Sometimes it was just the leaders who were judged. Sometimes it was an entire nation that was destroyed. Again, only God has the ability to know the hearts of a nation. It's hard for me to know when men are judging or if it is God moving that judgement.

[TruthWarrior]

I understand if you don't want to read the book so I will break down the response the way I see it.  You have to look at the picture God saw.  He had already given their culture hundreds of years to respond to him, they rejected him and when the Israelites came in, they wouldn't have stopped until they had killed all of their people.  The people who didn't want to be a part of that culture had to have left not able to be a part of it so that only those that thought their way of life was good lived there.  Anyone under the age of accountablity, children through teens, even though killed would not be judged, they will not be assigned eternity in hell because they were not able to make a choice yet.  God's purpose was to destroy and evil and corrupt nation, in this case, it was not just the leaders that were corrupt, it was the entire population.  The children would have been raised to accept it as an ok way to live, too.  If the children had been spared, and later found out that their city and people had been destroyed, there probably would have been some resentment that prevented them from seeing why.  Even though God's justice seems very harsh, and we can't see the always see the wisdom behind it, those children are in heaven spared from hell because they probably would have never been able to know God.

 

So god killed a bunch o evil to prevent greater evil and eternally punish the evildoers. Ends justify means? Hitler could have and probably did reason the same, that jews would grown up evil and destroyed his favorite pure people. Then again, we did nuke Hiroshima and Nagasaki and all the children there to stop further war in the Pacific. Supposedly saving the lives of millions more people.

 

Hell is another topic that deserves discussing.  A lot of you have taken what is considered symbolic language and turned it into literal.  Hell is basically separation from God.  The only people that will be there are people who don't want to be with God, people who have rejected his existance even though there is more than enough proof and people who know he exists but hate him and that includes the angels that followed Satan.  God says there is enough proof just in nature and that every person is sent the light of truth to pursue or reject.  Hell wasn't made for people, it was made for Satan and his followers.

 

Hell wasn't made for people? Then why do people get thrown into it? Though it is certainately described with symbols, you still are believing these literal souls are assigned into this literal place.

 

Hell is not torture for an eternity, it is realizing you made the wrong choice and being separated from God.

 

Here you contradict yourself again:

 

That realization will be a constant grieving and regret, and if you have ever felt this way about something in your life, it is painful.

 

So the poor soul is constantly in a state of grieving and regret that is painful. Great! It doesn't involve fire and pointy sticks! But wait... it still sounds like torture for eternity. Do some more tap dancing around the subject, reword it better, that'll work!

 

I want to tackle all these with you, one by one.  There are no easy one-liner answers to your questions.  Perhaps, as some have suggested it would be better for me to do it in the Arena.  I am getting so side tracked but I just feel all your objections are good. I want to finish the inerrancy thread, but maybe setting them up one at a time would be better, and then adding topics like, How can God be loving if he sends people to hell.

 

Hell is part of the core belief of christians and most everyone leaves christianity because of it. you might want to devote more time to it. Most christians tap dance around the subject, try to "lighten it up", and pass the blame for its existance from god to the sinner and satan. I've seen many these days who avoid mention of it all together and focus only on heaven. No one wants to deal with it because they know how damn contradictory it is and cannot explain it even for themselves.

[Caretaker]

No, I can't but I can show you enough evidence that you can believe, God made sure some faith was required, otherwise, in the face of absolute proof, you really wouldn't have a choice.

102109[/snapback]

No. Unacceptable. I reject that sort of faith. It is tantamount to Begging the Question.

[Mythra]

I see how God used different nations to punish others, even bringing a corrupt nation against the Israelites because they had turned away from him, and I believe He still works to this day by moving the hearts of men to action.  I also see where men think they have the ability to be a God knowing how to judge other nations and abuse the power they have to meet their own desires, not God's. 

102139[/snapback]

 

Ok. I see. You don't even know your bible. Achan was of the tribe of the Israelites. As were his little children. Who God demanded to be stoned. Because Achan had sticky fingers. After Achan's kids lay dead on the ground from the stoning, then God's anger was soothed against Israel, and he calmed back down.

 

Oh, and it was the fourth century CE before anyone figured out the concept of the christian Trinity. Which is actually Hindu in origin. Over two thousand years ago in the Puranas - Brahma, Vishnu, and Siva were recognized as three gods in one.

 

Iprayican: just make sure you don't get too carried away with your delusion. That little baby on your shoulder won't go to heaven if you kill him/her.

Take it easy.

[quicksand]

I see how God used different nations to punish others, even bringing a corrupt nation against the Israelites because they had turned away from him, and I believe He still works to this day by moving the hearts of men to action.

102139[/snapback]

Prey, how much have you looked into OT Biblical history? You have to understand that really all the terrible violence and grand stories of the Jews succeeding or being persecuated by God are just that, stories. Stories written to give the Jews - who are more than likely Caaninites themselves, an instant idenity and history.

 

It is mythology by and large.

 

However, it is a danagerous mythology when people like you state that...

Again, only God has the ability to know the hearts of a nation.  It's hard for me to know when men are judging or if it is God moving that judgement.

102139[/snapback]

... to abrograte and excuse genocide.

 

Your God and His generals per these stories would be in the Haig today for the crimes against humanity.

 

And tell me, how does destroying a people's animals and not leaving one peice of grass standing appease God?

[Cerise]

That is a lot to respond to but you don't have the whole picture when you pluck a verse out without the whole story and history of what was happening before God decided enough was enough and set a judgement on a person or city of people.  You are talking about a God that is both Just and Merciful to the degree that we cannot understand.  A great book that I think might help you with these questions is, "The Case for Faith" by Lee Strobel.  I know you probably get tired of hearing about this author but he was once a non-believer and decided to get answers from some of the leading authorities on the Bible.  In his book there is a question #4:  God isn't worthy of Worship if He kills innocent Children.  I'm just going to post one section of his response to a question like this.

 

If you have bothered looking around the forum a bit, you would have discovered that Lee "I wouldn't know an argument if it came up and bit me in the ass" Strobel and his little *cough* book had already been read and decimated here. He was not a non-believer. He was a bullshitter waiting for a place to happen.

 

"In Joshua 6, where the Bible talks about the destruction of Jericho and the Canaanite, you've got the same pattern.  This was a thoroughly evil culture, so much so that the Bible says it nauseated God.  THey were into brutality, cruelty, incest, bestiality, cultic prostitution and even child sacrifice by fire.  They were an aggressive culture that wanted to annihilate the Israelites."

 

So God HAD to kill ALL THE CHILDREN because these people were killing ALL THE CHILDREN?

 

Even I can think up a better solution then that. Does that mean y'all should worship me? What a shitty excuse. God should definitely choose some different spokespeople and PR men if this is all you and Strobel have to offer as spin.

 

I understand if you don't want to read the book so I will break down the response the way I see it.  You have to look at the picture God saw.  He had already given their culture hundreds of years to respond to him, they rejected him and when the Israelites came in, they wouldn't have stopped until they had killed all of their people. 

 

And you know this...how?

 

The people who didn't want to be a part of that culture had to have left not able to be a part of it so that only those that thought their way of life was good lived there.  Anyone under the age of accountablity, children through teens, even though killed would not be judged, they will not be assigned eternity in hell because they were not able to make a choice yet. 

 

There is no age of accountability in the bible. Try again.

 

God's purpose was to destroy and evil and corrupt nation, in this case, it was not just the leaders that were corrupt, it was the entire population.  The children would have been raised to accept it as an ok way to live, too.  If the children had been spared, and later found out that their city and people had been destroyed, there probably would have been some resentment that prevented them from seeing why.  Even though God's justice seems very harsh, and we can't see the always see the wisdom behind it, those children are in heaven spared from hell because they probably would have never been able to know God. 

 

You honestly expect me to believe that an entire population was 100% evil, even toddlers, even new borns, even five year olds, completely evil and beyond any redemption whatsoever? You expect me to believe that? What are you smoking?

 

Hell is another topic that deserves discussing.  A lot of you have taken what is considered symbolic language and turned it into literal. 

 

Oh really? I thought that was the church's job...

 

Hell is basically separation from God.  The only people that will be there are people who don't want to be with God, people who have rejected his existance even though there is more than enough proof and people who know he exists but hate him and that includes the angels that followed Satan.  God says there is enough proof just in nature and that every person is sent the light of truth to pursue or reject.

 

Then explain us. You can't? Oh boo hoo.

 

Hell wasn't made for people, it was made for Satan and his followers. 

 

Satan works for god. Why would god want to put him in hell for being a good little employee?

 

Hell is not torture for an eternity, it is realizing you made the wrong choice and being separated from God.  That realization will be a constant grieving and regret, and if you have ever felt this way about something in your life, it is painful.

 

Okay...then how is that NOT torture for an eternity?

 

I want to tackle all these with you, one by one.  There are no easy one-liner answers to your questions.

 

If your one liners had any sense attached to them, then perhaps. Right now, even your rambling paragraphs are nonsense.

 

[TruthWarrior]

It's hard for me to know when men are judging or if it is God moving that judgement.

102139[/snapback]

 

Both maybe? From what I understand, the bible says god gives authority to all rulers, good or bad. Doesn't mean all rulers are good. The Roman government was pretty naughty. They're just here to keep a sort of order in the world. If a ruler goes "bad", a "good" ruler comes and beats the poo out of him. Sort like a karma thing, cause and effect.

 

"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all things." -Isaiah 45:7 (KJV)

 

Christians are just comanded to be subject and submissive under all government authority. Problem is, how do you know where to draw the line? Should we join the military? Should we be pacifist? Is it good to revolt or war against some governments? I have even heard some christians say that the American Revolutionary War was wrong.

[Amethyst]

Doesn't mean all rulers are good. The Roman government was pretty naughty. They're just here to keep a sort of order in the world. If a ruler goes "bad", a "good" ruler comes and beats the poo out of him. Sort like a karma thing, cause and effect.

 

Right. The Bible says obey all rulers, even tyrants like Saddam Hussein.

 

I see how God used different nations to punish others, even bringing a corrupt nation against the Israelites because they had turned away from him, and I believe He still works to this day by moving the hearts of men to action.

 

The problem of believing things like this is that it leads to war and terrorism. If you believe your god wants you to "punish" the nation next door just because they believe in a different god, you will do whatever you can to destroy them. Same thing for the other country. This is how wars get started. This is why religion is a Very Bad Thing and needs to go the way of the dinosaurs.

 

The world can't go on like this much longer. Sooner or later, it is all going to implode and lots of innocent people are going to be hurt in the process. If we keep believing that our beliefs in an imaginary being who has never been proven to exist justifies that kind of violence, or any violence, our world will implode on itself. Not the planet of course, but the human race, except maybe for a few isolated tribes somewhere who don't get involved. But they'll likely have to suffer the ramifications of nuclear winter for years to come.

 

We have to stop believing in this crap as a whole society. It is people like who who allow wars to go on because you tolerate those beliefs.

[willybilly30]

Do you realize you just called Jesus a liar?

What about the story of Lazarus and the rich man

In addition, that is just one example of his fire and brimstone torture for eternity hell speeches. If you do not believe, what the bible says why do you bother being a Christian?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hell is another topic that deserves discussing. A lot of you have taken what is considered symbolic language and turned it into literal. Hell is basically separation from God. The only people that will be there are people who don't want to be with God, people who have rejected his existance even though there is more than enough proof and people who know he exists but hate him and that includes the angels that followed Satan. God says there is enough proof just in nature and that every person is sent the light of truth to pursue or reject. Hell wasn't made for people, it was made for Satan and his followers. Hell is not torture for an eternity, it is realizing you made the wrong choice and being separated from God. That realization will be a constant grieving and regret, and if you have ever felt this way about something in your life, it is painful.

[Mike D]

Mathew 8:20 [KJV] - The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head.

 

Strength in numbers is a consistent 'faith builder,' no matter what belief you happen to possess.  Atheists are strengthened in this way, and they have formed groups of people they know to love them.  Agnostics, Muslims, Hindus, and an endless list of others -- all faiths and all beliefs are this way. 

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First of all I just wanted to say I think this thread is very inappropriate. If Christians want to support each other with devotionals, then go to a Christian website. There are literally thousands of Christians sites out there, so there's absolutely no reason you need to post it here on this site.

 

Second, this whole "strength in numbers" argument is bullshit, for several reasons. My beliefs were not arrived at, nor are they maintained, because of the number of atheists there are (or aren't). If numbers were that important than I should not be an atheist because there are the minority. I want to know what's true, not what's comfortable. Next, most of the people I know and love are NOT atheists, they are Christians! Yes, most of the people I know and love are delusional and detached from reality, just like yourself. They pray for me, and I recommend psychotherapy for them.

 

IMO, lots of Christians like strength in numbers because that's how they think.... herd mentality. (or flock mentality if you like.....baaah)