Which God?

[BlueGiant]

So, I was reading through and noticed that most of the Chirstian attacks are personally addressed to the atheists of this site. They tend to forget that this is not atheist.net but exchristian.net, and I, for one, am feeling a little left out.

 

Well that, and I guess I have a masochistic streak.

 

As such, as I don't feel like disputing if there is a deity or some equivalent therof, as, I don't really disagree with that I have a feeling that I, and the other deists, and pagans on this site, in addition to having a sort of disagreement ourselves as to what form divinity takes (probably), I know that the Christian posters definately disagree with this. They love to prove that some form of god(s) exist, or at least attempt to, but I have yet to see one establish that it is indeed the Christian god.

 

Yep, I am asking for you to provide evidence that YHWH, Jehova, the big cheese, three-in-one special, is indeed the god, and not some other being(s) or forces or what-have-you. Proove that your god is indeed god.

 

This is, unfortunately for the Christians, not possible by a proof by exhaustion (blow away all other possiblities, I will explain why if needed), but I am pretty sure requires some sort of positive proof and I look foward to seeing what kind of clutch you have.

 

And I will laugh my ass off if someone actually offers a proof by induction.

[Thurisaz]

Quite right. Their cult führers never told them what to memorize and brainlessly quote when faced with such a question.

With the possible exception of islam.

[The Silent One]

Wonderful question, I wonder what answers we'll get.

[MQTA]

any answers yet?

[Ouroboros]

BlueGiant, good that you bring that up.

 

The Christians that come here tend to force the our arguments to be "God" or "Not God". And the sites purpose is not to give any ultimate answers to that question, but that Christianity's version, or the Bible God, is something that we all left and don't believe in anymore.

 

It's not the Atheist.Net site, like you said, but the Not-Christian-Anymore.Net web site.

[Antlerman]

In lieu of any Christian providing an offering, I'll take a stab at it for them: Because they have biblical prophecy that came true. Israel is "irrefutable proof" of this, as a recent friend of ours has repeated incessantly without reason. "Prophecy" is what makes Christianity true and all other religions false.

[Mythra]

Of course, once you realize that the Old Testament was used as a template in the writing of the New Testament, the "fulfilled prophecy" argument vanishes into thin air.

[Antlerman]

Of course, once you realize that the Old Testament was used as a template in the writing of the New Testament, the "fulfilled prophecy" argument vanishes into thin air.

102966[/snapback]

Ok then, but what about Elijah's prayer bringing down fire and beating out all the prophets of Baal (1 Kings 18:1-46)? That is pretty strong proof there if you ask me. The OT god is stronger than the other gods. Therefore all others are false. (It's fun thinking like a Christian again )

[BlueGiant]

Ok then, but what about Elijah's prayer bringing down fire and beating out all the prophets of Baal (1 Kings 18:1-46)?  That is pretty strong proof there if you ask me.  The OT god is stronger than the other gods.  Therefore all others are false.  (It's fun thinking like a Christian again  )

102968[/snapback]

 

Well, that may say a few things about Baal, but what about gods like Zeus, Hephaestus, Odin, Lugh, etc. It just suggests that it may be stronger than one god (or that Elijah had some serious will).

 

And what about Asherah(sp?)? He seemed to have trouble keeping her out of Israel.

[Vixentrox]

Yeah the ole..."The bible says it so it's true" is the most common answer I think.

[Antlerman]

Ok, I'm running out of good Christian answers here. I pulled the Israel is "irrefutable proof" of prophecy card, and no one bought it. Maybe a real Christian can help me out here and provide an intellegent answer to this question. I'm tapped for the moment. It hurt my brain turning it off and then back on again like that!

[BuddhistCommunist]

My God is stronger than any of your gods because I said so, A book backs me up, My parents taught me, he gave me revelations, I am a prophet, I belong to the only true christian church, you are wrong, Christianity is so large, There must have been a creator and it had to be the Christian God because of all the reasons above.

Yeah thats literally what they all say.

[Jose]

Oooh! Oooh! I want to be a Christian for a little while too!

 

The Bible God™ is 100% Real God! because,

 

1. Bible God™ has proven Himself to be 100% Real God! by revealing Himself to the Israelites and lording His superiority over their graven image of Ba'al. If Ba'al was real, don't you think this might have pissed him off a little? (Exodus 32:2-11)

 

2. Bible God™ in His transmogrified human suit, Jesus, has proven Himself to be 100% Real God! because He treated women as if he were from the 20th century and knew about political correctness. Obviously, Jesus either had a time machine or he knew what the 20th century was going to bring. Does your wimpy horned god have a time machine? Yeah, I didn't think so. (Luke 10:38-42, John 4, Luke 7:36-40, Matt 28:1-10)

 

3. Bible God™ has proven Himself to be 100% Real God! because if you had gone to Buddha and asked him, 'Are you the son of Brahah?' he would have said, 'My son, you are still in the vale of illusion.' If you had gone to Socrates and asked, 'Are you Zeus?' he would have laughed at you. If you had gone to Muhammad and asked, 'Are you Allah?' he would first have rent his clothes and then cut off your head, unless you somehow brought Muhammad back from the dead in the modern day, in which case he would have shot you with an AK-47 instead. The Bible God™ in His transmogrified human suit, Jesus, claims to actually have been Bible God™! None of the other limited list of examples I used would have claimed that!

 

That's kind of fun, actually... I like being a fake Christian. Maybe I'll go to church Sunday too.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Nah... that's masochistic.

[Hero of Hyrule]

Prophecy...

 

Nostradamus is our Savior!

Just like in the bible he thought up a lot of nonsense and very few concrete prophecies.

 

There's also a Scottish prophet that made prophecies that are quite good and a book about the Titanic (Called Titan there) there's almost entirely true.

 

Of course those prophets were inspired by Satan...

 

In lieu of any Christian providing an offering, I'll take a stab at it for them: Because they have biblical prophecy that came true

[necrosmith]

Hmm...

 

Because of all the world's religions, Christianity is the most unique.

 

You can go visit the tombs or graves of all the prophets, teachers, founders of all the other world's religions. But if you go visit the tomb of Jesus, you won't find a body, because he's risen from the dead. Christianity is the only religion whose god has conquered death.

 

This proves it to be true!

 

Of course, nobody points out there may be no body of Jesus b/c he never existed, but that's beside the point.

 

Because the Bible was written by a bazillion different authors on x different continents and flows seamlessly, proves it to be true.

 

And nobody brings up the myriad of contradictions, but again, beside the point.

 

Blah blah blah.

[Antlerman]

That's kind of fun, actually... I like being a fake Christian. Maybe I'll go to church Sunday too

103689[/snapback]

 

Yeah... like mom always said, "it's always fun till someone get's their eyes poked out!" If you do go, just beware of the faithful with blue hair and knitting needles.

[BlueGiant]

Still surprised that none of our resident apologists have taken a crack at this.

 

And yeah, watch out for those little old blue-haired ladies, they'll do stuff you'd never expect.

[Checkmate]

Still surprised that none of our resident apologists have taken a crack at this.

 

105761[/snapback]

 

Here is a similiar thread entitled "Assuming that there is a creator...can you PROVE that it's biblegod?" http://www.ex-christian.net/index.php?showtopic=1826&st=0

 

Out of 52 replies, Rufus, was the only Christian soldier although Amanda did reply once also. You can see for your self that Rufus did not do really well. And, Amanda is the resident Universalist so according to the "True Christians" ™ , Amanda doesn't count....LOL Isn't that right Amanda?

105766[/snapback]

This gives me an idea. Y'all want to smoke out the Christians? Allow me a whack at them sensitive "Holy Ghost" nerve endings. I can usually say shit that pisses them off and gets their attention.

 

"NEW THREAD ALERT!"

[Ssel]

same erroneous premise as the SCC (Santa Claus Christian)

 

Ok my mistake, I am not really sure what "hebrew" viewpoint are you supporting? I mean what is your standing as far as the "Jesus being God and Messiah of the Jews" issue goes?

 

What I meant by "erroneous premise" was that the Bible can’t be read literally.

It is written in serious, yet consistent metaphor for reasons.

Until you understand the exact metaphors being used, the scriptures make very little sense to any rational person.

 

BUT, once you actually see them and put it all together, THEN it becomes VERY consistent and more importantly it becomes HIGHLY relevant to the obvious intention and purpose of its writing.

 

You can only know when you have it right, when all of the pieces finally and really fit together into a truly rational, and relevant story. Then you can see WHY things were said, and you can discuss the real strategies and concepts being fought over. You can even begin to see how they play into a predictable pattern.

 

Once you understand it, you see VERY clearly that it is ALL about strategies and concepts. It is about creating nations and destroying them. It is about creating the worst of the worst and surviving the worst of the worst. It is about creating unity and creating dissention. And if you climb high enough on that mountain of understanding, you see that it, and all else that man must deal with is merely about the simple mental affect known as "lust of the mind" (not sexual, more like "luster" which blinds him from seeing reality).

 

NOTHING in the Bible is about superstition, voodoo, magic, hocus pocus and such BS.

 

You can not judge if Jesus said anything relevant, because you don't know what any of them were really talking about yet.

 

The Jew worships the scriptural laws and family linage (THIER OWN).

The Hebrew worships the understanding those scriptures were written to convey to people with minds to see past the clouds. --- ANY people from ANY family linage.

[Dio]

Hi Ssel. If you have a way of understanding the scriptures in a non-literal sense whereby it actually makes sense, then you are one of a handful of people in the history of the world with this esoteric knowledge. Strikes me as odd that the maker of all mankind would so shroud his mysteries such that the masses cannot perceive the essence of the message. I remain skeptical.

 

 

* spelling edit *

[Ssel]

I remain skeptical.

Hey there Dio,

 

that's ok, I just posted that because people on this thread seem to be getting bored.

 

[Ouroboros]

I remain skeptical.

Hey there Dio,

 

that's ok, I just posted that because people on this thread seem to be getting bored.

 

And yet, your point of making the Bible as a book understood in metaphors does have a better case than to understand it literally.

[Ssel]

And yet, your point of making the Bible as a book understood in metaphors does have a better case than to understand it literally.

Hey there Hans

 

Yes, but very unfortunately, the metaphor route requires that ALL of the many metaphors be properly understood in ALL of the stories within. That takes a LOT of trial and error and/or a lot of help from someone who happens to already know and has your trust. So, being a more difficult road and less likely one to be able to follow very far before giving up means that it remains a seldom followed road.

 

My particular concern with this is that there is another step to take beyond ALL of what is mentioned in the scriptures, but how can anyone take the last step until they have taken the preceding 100? How can anyone add the final touch on a painting which remains buried in mud?

 

As I keep saying, in the long run, it won't matter anyway. The end of the story is undauntable. But it's such a great ending that it would be well worth trying to get it here a lot sooner. I generally feel like I'm trying to explain the potential of electronics and technology to a 12th century jew and he says, "well just EXPLAIN IT!" as he prepares to look for scriptural proof of its potential.

 

..oh well

[Celsus]

And yet, your point of making the Bible as a book understood in metaphors does have a better case than to understand it literally.

Hey there Hans

 

Yes, but very unfortunately, the metaphor route requires that ALL of the many metaphors be properly understood in ALL of the stories within. That takes a LOT of trial and error and/or a lot of help from someone who happens to already know and has your trust. So, being a more difficult road and less likely one to be able to follow very far before giving up means that it remains a seldom followed road.

 

My particular concern with this is that there is another step to take beyond ALL of what is mentioned in the scriptures, but how can anyone take the last step until they have taken the preceding 100? How can anyone add the final touch on a painting which remains buried in mud?

 

As I keep saying, in the long run, it won't matter anyway. The end of the story is undauntable. But it's such a great ending that it would be well worth trying to get it here a lot sooner. I generally feel like I'm trying to explain the potential of electronics and technology to a 12th century jew and he says, "well just EXPLAIN IT!" as he prepares to look for scriptural proof of its potential.

 

..oh well

 

 

And of course, like hundreds of others before and like many to come, you have the one true ™ understanding?

[mwc]

[And of course, like hundreds of others before and like many to come, you have the one true understanding?

Like all the others you just won't get it until you get it. Once the mystery of <whatever interpretation> is revealed then you'll finally get what jesus really meant to say. So believe it so that you can learn to believe it.

 

mwc