Antlerman Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 To woo or not to woo, that is the question. In the spirit of this discussion of why some feel a need to create a growing rift between science and the humanities, I take your injection of this to be voice that can express the side that believes one is necessary. Can you articulate your views intelligibly so we who believe in the value of both can appreciate your disdain for anything not-Science? This is meant to be a conversation. I have to say in response that to me when I hear those who throw up the walls like this, branding everything not hard science as "woo-woo", what I hear is something along the lines of rewriting scripture with new words, "SCIENCE is my rock, my fortress and my deliverer; my Science is my rock, in whom I take refuge. It is my shield and the horn of my salvation, my stronghold". I hear mainly a change of religious sentimentality, rather than a reasoned position. This is probably a little harsh on my part in not fully understanding your position, which I hope to hear explained why science and the humanities, including spirituality, must give way to Scientism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted February 24, 2012 Author Share Posted February 24, 2012 I'm glad you addressed that in the manner you did A-man. I'd +1 you if I could. The thing is, Par disses 'woo' using woo. His statement was in no way scientific. It's hypocritcal and it's not constructive in my opinion. I tried to be diplomatic with it, but I like your direct appoach better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlerman Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 The thing is, Par disses 'woo' using woo. His statement was in no way scientific. I had that same thought. Science in his world is "woo-woo" itself, like it somehow is now the magic truth for the world, just like God was before. It's not grounded or realistic. As Forest Gump might say, "Woo is as woo does". It's hypocritcal and it's not constructive in my opinion. It's just religious. That's how I see it. I tried to be diplomatic with it, but I like your direct appoach better. Funny thing, I was going to commend you on your tactic in citing how he was using a Shakespeare quote, who himself was totally a master of the humanities. I thought I was a bit edgy in my response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
par4dcourse Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Sheesh! We've discussed the shit out of spirituality many, many times before. I express myself with humor and I'm sorry for interrupting your world defining discussion. Won't happen again. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlerman Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 So essentially there is no rational explaination for rejecting the humanities. Its just the woo woo position that does so. Btw I don't recall you ever actually discussing anything beyond cheap pot shots from a position of weakness. Maybe my memory fails me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
par4dcourse Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Ok, my position in a nutshell: If I can't detect it and it can't directly or indirectly influence me, again, to the best of my senses' abilities, I don't care. There may be 2000 spirits floating in this room. As long as they meet the above criteria by not mucking about or touching me, I'm good. I can't disprove them or Russell's teapot. Therefore, I really don't care about either. I respect that you consider this a serious matter and I will refrain from further Tomfoolery. In return, I would ask that you not confuse jocularity with ignorance. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlerman Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Ok, my position in a nutshell: If I can't detect it and it can't directly or indirectly influence me, again, to the best of my senses' abilities, I don't care. In regards to the topic at hand, the humanities do directly influence you. Being unaware of them, or worse dismissing them because it's not so clean or easy to understand, is not a viable position to take. It's irrational. I only mentioned spirituality as part of the humanities, but that's not specifically what this topic is about. But it is curious how you see them all in the same light. There may be 2000 spirits floating in this room. As long as they meet the above criteria by not mucking about or touching me, I'm good. I can't disprove them or Russell's teapot. Therefore, I really don't care about either. Ahh, but if the spiritual has nothing to do with mythological beings but with your very existential self - which most definitely impacts you, then again, to not care, is in a true sense of the word not caring about yourself or the world you live in. It's like not caring to understand yourself at all, and just eat, have sex, eat, have sex, etc. What was it that Socrates said? "The unexamined life is not worth the living"? I respect that you consider this a serious matter and I will refrain from further Tomfoolery. In return, I would ask that you not confuse jocularity with ignorance. It's kind of hard not to when it's a pattern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
par4dcourse Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 It's kind of hard not to when it's a pattern. Yes, my way of expressing myself is indeed a pattern. Been like that since childhood, and I'm not changing now, and I'm not taking a course in Robert's Rules just to post. I'm seeing more and more why people are lurking instead of posting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted February 25, 2012 Author Share Posted February 25, 2012 It's kind of hard not to when it's a pattern. Yes, my way of expressing myself is indeed a pattern. Been like that since childhood, and I'm not changing now, and I'm not taking a course in Robert's Rules just to post. I'm seeing more and more why people are lurking instead of posting. Excuse me? I'm sorry. No. I'm not sorry. We are in the Coloseum. Places have function because we respect their function. <--- Can you see the period right there? I think people refrain from posting for FEAR of cowards taking cheap shots in places where there ought to be, by INTENT of the rules, differentiated functions. Shall I post the rules like some kind of hall monitor? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 When it comes to this thread, I am with Par4dcourse all the way - plus 10. He is right, this subject has been rehashed to death. Why are you stirring this pot again? You are doing one of your periodic trolling of the forums games. Will say no more, since this is the Colosseum. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Legion is right. Let's keep the pot-shots out of the Colosseum. If rules are expected to be followed in the Spirituality section, then they should be in other places as well. I think this is a good discussion, and it's been very affable between Legion and Antlerman (which is not always the case ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Sorry. I promise I will stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted February 25, 2012 Author Share Posted February 25, 2012 He is right, this subject has been rehashed to death. Why are you stirring this pot again? Deva, if you will kindly read the very first sentence of the OP you will see my purpose here. If you do not believe it, will you tell me why? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted February 25, 2012 Author Share Posted February 25, 2012 Deva, are you not going to answer my question? I ask it with sincerity and kindness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 However, when those here who prefer the humanities over the sciences do not also recognize the power and legitimacy of science, I feel slighted. And I am tempted to remove my public advocacy of the humanities. I am not very happy with this statement, Legion. Quite frankly, I am restraining myself because I know you aren't like this all the time. Why does this bother you? Seems perfectly legit to me other than the temptation to withdraw support of humanities, which is a personal decision. I don't even see AM having a problem with this statement. It seems to line up well with his position as I understand it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 I get the feeling here that I am meant to bow down and worship science. I don't want to. I don't give a shit whether we crawled from the ooze, fell down from the trees or were dropped from a spaceship. Its a moot point. I'm more concerned with how we behave now we are here. That I have some control over Ha ha, Gailien, you have science in your craw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Ok, my position in a nutshell: If I can't detect it and it can't directly or indirectly influence me, again, to the best of my senses' abilities, I don't care. There may be 2000 spirits floating in this room. As long as they meet the above criteria by not mucking about or touching me, I'm good. I can't disprove them or Russell's teapot. Therefore, I really don't care about either. I respect that you consider this a serious matter and I will refrain from further Tomfoolery. In return, I would ask that you not confuse jocularity with ignorance. I probably have 1 1/2 feet in your camp, but humanities is more than voodoo. What say you in regard to art, poetry, literature, et al? The human experience runs much deeper than that which can be quantified. That's what humanities concerns, not false pattern recognition and wishful thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted February 25, 2012 Author Share Posted February 25, 2012 I'm more concerned with how we behave now we are here. But, is this concern best addressed by the sciences or the humanities? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted February 25, 2012 Author Share Posted February 25, 2012 ... humanities is more than voodoo. What say you in regard to art, poetry, literature,... MUSIC! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 ... humanities is more than voodoo. What say you in regard to art, poetry, literature,... MUSIC! Stupid me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted February 25, 2012 Author Share Posted February 25, 2012 ... humanities is more than voodoo. What say you in regard to art, poetry, literature,... MUSIC! Stupid me. Nah man, between the two of us, we got some big ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
par4dcourse Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 I probably have 1 1/2 feet in your camp, but humanities is more than voodoo. What say you in regard to art, poetry, literature, et al? The human experience runs much deeper than that which can be quantified. That's what humanities concerns, not false pattern recognition and wishful thinking. I was a semi-professional musician in better days, write lyrics, and play 6 instruments. But I have an exaggerated "tone and timbre" recognition portion of my brain, which results in perfect pitch and an appreciation for same. Musical scales also appeal to my mathematical side. I have a fondness for 70's rock, but it's what I grew up with. Fond memories. No magic. I believe the brain to be the "final frontier" and the physical reality of what is called spirit. I also believe some members are stirring the pot and calling it unity. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted February 26, 2012 Author Share Posted February 26, 2012 I was a semi-professional musician in better days, write lyrics, and play 6 instruments. But I have an exaggerated "tone and timbre" recognition portion of my brain, which results in perfect pitch and an appreciation for same. Musical scales also appeal to my mathematical side. I have a fondness for 70's rock, but it's what I grew up with. Fond memories. No magic. See, now that's cool. (in my opinion) I believe the brain to be the "final frontier" and the physical reality of what is called spirit. I've long been interested in cognition. I also believe some members are stirring the pot and calling it unity. Well I am inferring that you mean me. Fair enough. Why do you get the impression that I am strring the pot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted February 26, 2012 Author Share Posted February 26, 2012 Par, I find it very telling that you and Deva will not answer this question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
par4dcourse Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 You already knew everything I just said. You know how I feel about spirituality from past experience and you also know I quip. My original post, "to woo or not to woo, that is the question" is an accurate description of my opinion on the subject of the thread and is merely a play on Shakespeare, not a jab at anyone. You've made much stronger statements against atheism. But you knew that, too, and still you play the innocence game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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